Who do you grade as higher coming out of college? Are they similar in terms of grade and talent? Differences?
I don't watch much college football. Two draft guides I recently purchased had Haskins as the number one QB over Murray. However, it seems like the guides were printed before the combine and Murray stating he only wants to play football. Not sure if that would have changed the grading.
I pick Darnold for the comparison as demeanor wise he seemed like the consensus best fit for the Giants if we had drafted a QB in round 1 last year.
“Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.”
https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html
Go away.
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Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory
He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops)
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Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league
No bias at all there, right?
Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.
I have entirely conventional views on humanity.
“Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.”
https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html
It's one guy, and I just gave you an alternative viewpoint that has them ordered differently. We could go round and round all day posting alternative views of the quarterbacks.
“Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.”
https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html
Stop cherry picking things. Just like you cherry picked the 3 games after his injury. Why did you not pick the 3 games before the injury? The three games where he played AWFUL!
You are picking the Jeremiah grades because they suit your argument - no other reason.
Now that that's been addressed. Here's Ian Wharton's charting of QB's in 2018 and 2019. Ordered by accuracy past the line of scrimmage. Colors are quartiles and in order: green, yellow, orange, red.
Link - ( New Window )
“Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.”
https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html
So you say that Haskins would go around "Mason Rudolph territory" who was drafted in round 3 then post one mans opinion who ranks Haskins ahead of Lamar Jackson who went in round 1.
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Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory
He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops)
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Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league
No bias at all there, right?
Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.
I'm pretty objective when it comes to QB's. You won't find a bigger fan of Eli Manning. I'd put Eli in the Hall of Fame. I HATED Sanchez and Geno Smith from the getgo and was proven right on both. I still remember reading the below scouting report on Geno and just having it resonate...it was all that I suspected of the guy. Idzik's selection of him was a braindead choice
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/4/3/4178418/geno-smith-scouting-report-from-pfw-is-scathing
overall with Darnold I've seen a lot of extremely advanced stuff, under incredible duress too. And he has great intelligence and the work ethic. Hard to not see him working out.
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In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said:
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Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory
He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops)
16/24 170 1td 1int
24/38 253 2td 0int
24/35 341 3td 0int
16/28 167 0td 0int
Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league
No bias at all there, right?
Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.
I'm pretty objective when it comes to QB's. You won't find a bigger fan of Eli Manning. I'd put Eli in the Hall of Fame. I HATED Sanchez and Geno Smith from the getgo and was proven right on both. I still remember reading the below scouting report on Geno and just having it resonate...it was all that I suspected of the guy. Idzik's selection of him was a braindead choice
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/4/3/4178418/geno-smith-scouting-report-from-pfw-is-scathing
overall with Darnold I've seen a lot of extremely advanced stuff, under incredible duress too. And he has great intelligence and the work ethic. Hard to not see him working out.
I think nobody questions Darnold's ability as a player, I said going into draft I would have been ok with Giants taking either Barkely or Darnold. I think your comparison of Haskins to Mason Rudolph, and the lol at comparing him to Darnold as a prospect are the points posters are taking issue with. Darnold may have be the better prospect coming out, but it's not by much, and part of it is the knock on Haskins only having 1 year, which really says nothing about his ability as a player it's just potentially increases risk with having less games to judge him on.
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In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said:
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Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory
He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops)
16/24 170 1td 1int
24/38 253 2td 0int
24/35 341 3td 0int
16/28 167 0td 0int
Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league
No bias at all there, right?
Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.
I have entirely conventional views on humanity.
Just because the thread got immediately deleted doesn't mean that there aren't people here who remember that you referred to an entire segment of the population as "disgusting" for nothing other than their sexuality. If you honestly believe those are conventional views in 2019, you're a lost cause.
There is no reason for you to continue coming to this board. And yet you do. You're a troll, plain and simple. If you weren't, you'd just find a Jets board and converse with your own fellow fans. But that's not what you're after, is it?
Watch him on film - he is a Roethlisberger clone in terms of avoiding pressure and keeping his eyes down field.
Ben wont run away from you but he keeps plays alive with his eyes down field and that is Haskins.
I want Rosen for #37 or Haskins at 6.
Not sure how you arrived at Haskins being a better pocket passer. Based on what?
Darnold didn't have they luxury of a great pocket week after week.
And if Haskins was this polished QB - that you are suggesting - do you wonder why he couldn't beat out JT Barrett?
Haskins, as a freshman, couldn't beat out the incumbent senior starter who was also Ohio State's all-time career leader in passing yards and TDs? Oh, no!
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And if Haskins was this polished QB - that you are suggesting - do you wonder why he couldn't beat out JT Barrett?
Haskins, as a freshman, couldn't beat out the incumbent senior starter who was also Ohio State's all-time career leader in passing yards and TDs? Oh, no!
Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted.
Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted.
For the record, USC was trying to get Darnold to move to LB his freshman year. So that created some tension b/c Darnold didn't want to. So the SC staff decided to red-shirt him.
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There are two big differences. Haskins is better from the pocket while Darnold is better off platform on the move. Haskins has played QB all his life and it shows while darnold came late to the position and is still growing into it even as a pro.
Not sure how you arrived at Haskins being a better pocket passer. Based on what?
Darnold didn't have they luxury of a great pocket week after week.
And if Haskins was this polished QB - that you are suggesting - do you wonder why he couldn't beat out JT Barrett?
They basically did the exact same thing. Darnold redshirted his first year and was behind the Cody Kessler and Max Browne. The next year he started as the backup to the immortal Max Browne. He only got the nod 3 games in cause Max Browne was awful. Meanwhile Haskins after his redshirt freshman year sat behind a senior considered one of the favorites for the Heisman trophy in 2017.
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Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted.
For the record, USC was trying to get Darnold to move to LB his freshman year. So that created some tension b/c Darnold didn't want to. So the SC staff decided to red-shirt him.
That doesn't make your point well if the coaching staff at USC didn't even see Darnold as a QB. No one was trying to move Haskins to a LBer.
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In comment 14356069 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said:
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Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory
He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops)
16/24 170 1td 1int
24/38 253 2td 0int
24/35 341 3td 0int
16/28 167 0td 0int
Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league
No bias at all there, right?
Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.
I'm pretty objective when it comes to QB's. You won't find a bigger fan of Eli Manning. I'd put Eli in the Hall of Fame. I HATED Sanchez and Geno Smith from the getgo and was proven right on both. I still remember reading the below scouting report on Geno and just having it resonate...it was all that I suspected of the guy. Idzik's selection of him was a braindead choice
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/4/3/4178418/geno-smith-scouting-report-from-pfw-is-scathing
overall with Darnold I've seen a lot of extremely advanced stuff, under incredible duress too. And he has great intelligence and the work ethic. Hard to not see him working out.
I think nobody questions Darnold's ability as a player, I said going into draft I would have been ok with Giants taking either Barkely or Darnold. I think your comparison of Haskins to Mason Rudolph, and the lol at comparing him to Darnold as a prospect are the points posters are taking issue with. Darnold may have be the better prospect coming out, but it's not by much, and part of it is the knock on Haskins only having 1 year, which really says nothing about his ability as a player it's just potentially increases risk with having less games to judge him on.
Darnold is going to be a good one. He has more escapibility than Haskins for sure.
But Haskins has many many other qualities that translate extremely well.
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In comment 14356328 BSIMatt said:
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Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted.
For the record, USC was trying to get Darnold to move to LB his freshman year. So that created some tension b/c Darnold didn't want to. So the SC staff decided to red-shirt him.
That doesn't make your point well if the coaching staff at USC didn't even see Darnold as a QB. No one was trying to move Haskins to a LBer.
It was just for the record. Darnold was such a good athlete, and a good LBer in high school, the SC staff thought, well, this kid is gifted enough to help us at another position of need.
In a way, it's a flattering commentary on Darnold the athlete...that's all...
Of course, another mischaracterization of my position on Haskins. I don't hate Haskins. This is about optimizing draft value. And I don't think Haskins is worth a #6 pick. I really don't know why that is hard to reconcile.
Darnold played on an SC with a lot of holes on offense. Fortunately for SC, Darnold was good enough to help cover up those deficiencies with his play.
Odd statement considering the numbers. Take a look at each players sophomore campaigns:
Haskins 70% Comp 4831 yds 50 td 8 int 4 fumbles 2 lost
Darnold 63.1% comp 4143 yds 26 td 13 int 12 fumbles 9 lost
[quote] In comment 14356571 Sonic Youth said:
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If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question
Odd statement considering the numbers. Take a look at each players sophomore campaigns:
Haskins 70% Comp 4831 yds 50 td 8 int 4 fumbles 2 lost
Darnold 63.1% comp 4143 yds 26 td 13 int 12 fumbles 9 lost [/quote
If you assume everything is equal, this comparison may be apt.
But, as you know, that simply wasn't the case.
[quote] In comment 14356571 Sonic Youth said:
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If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question
Odd statement considering the numbers. Take a look at each players sophomore campaigns:
Haskins 70% Comp 4831 yds 50 td 8 int 4 fumbles 2 lost
Darnold 63.1% comp 4143 yds 26 td 13 int 12 fumbles 9 lost [/quote
If you assume everything is equal, this comparison may be apt.
But, as you know, that simply wasn't the case.
I fully understand the situations are different but I odn't see how you can say Darnold is by far the better prospect when referring to their college performances.
It’s also funny how we are comparing 3 years of Darnold versus one year of Haskins. Haskins in one season made anything Darnold did in three seasons look laughable. But, hey, he was pushed down our throats for 3 seasons so he must be awesome! I seen his name on the internet and never heard of Haskins before this season. Easy choice. Give me name recognition lol day baby!
It’s also funny how we are comparing 3 years of Darnold versus one year of Haskins. Haskins in one season made anything Darnold did in three seasons look laughable. But, hey, he was pushed down our throats for 3 seasons so he must be awesome! I seen his name on the internet and never heard of Haskins before this season. Easy choice. Give me name recognition lol day baby!
Uh, I went two of Haskins’s games in high school at Bullis. So you may want to be a bit more measured with your brush.
USC was still limited to 15 new scholarships than 25 through 2016, stemming from the Bush case. So they struggled with depth issues during Darnold’s time.
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If only Darnold didn’t have to play in that DIII wasteland called USC he would have actually had some talent around him! What an amazing job he did of holding such a down trodden team afloat!
It’s also funny how we are comparing 3 years of Darnold versus one year of Haskins. Haskins in one season made anything Darnold did in three seasons look laughable. But, hey, he was pushed down our throats for 3 seasons so he must be awesome! I seen his name on the internet and never heard of Haskins before this season. Easy choice. Give me name recognition lol day baby!
Uh, I went two of Haskins’s games in high school at Bullis. So you may want to be a bit more measured with your brush.
USC was still limited to 15 new scholarships than 25 through 2016, stemming from the Bush case. So they struggled with depth issues during Darnold’s time.
Poor guy. How did he ever manage with such little talent and such an incredibly gifted defensive conference?
All you do is kill Haskins for playing with such awesome talent against enormously overwhelmed opponents. Problem is the Big 10 is the monsters of midway compared to the PAC 12. No comparison. At least be objective in your opinions. The PAC 12 is a dumpster fire and has been for a long time. And USC basically gets any players they want. So spare me the bullshit that Haskins was better in one year than Darnold was in all three of his years because Darnold was somehow a victim of terrible talent and managed to put them on his back and will them to victory. His 3 years at USC were incredibly similar to his first year in the NFL. Some good, some bad and some continuously thinking that there should just be more in there...but we never see the consistency. It’s just amazing to me that so many of you are so set on Darnold being a superstar because he makes an incredible play once in awhile. The body of work, if you want to be objective, leaves a shit ton to be desired. But hey, ESPN talked about him a lot! Superstar!
Haskins can throw the ball beautifully when everything is functioning. I'm sure he looks fantastic in workouts and 7 on 7s. But that isn't real life. He reminds me of Kerry Collins...a human JUGS machine. That's great in practice, but not so much against live bullets.
Haskins can throw the ball beautifully when everything is functioning. I'm sure he looks fantastic in workouts and 7 on 7s. But that isn't real life. He reminds me of Kerry Collins...a human JUGS machine. That's great in practice, but not so much against live bullets.
Any QB is going to throw the ball better when well protected, for all his plus athlete qualities he still mustered 36 turnovers in 2 years at two years at USC. The athleticism difference between the two is exaggerated imo. He ran a 4.85 to Haskins 5, and Haskins outjumped him in the vertical by 2 inches.
Poor guy. How did he ever manage with such little talent and such an incredibly gifted defensive conference?
All you do is kill Haskins for playing with such awesome talent against enormously overwhelmed opponents. Problem is the Big 10 is the monsters of midway compared to the PAC 12. No comparison. At least be objective in your opinions. The PAC 12 is a dumpster fire and has been for a long time. And USC basically gets any players they want. So spare me the bullshit that Haskins was better in one year than Darnold was in all three of his years because Darnold was somehow a victim of terrible talent and managed to put them on his back and will them to victory. His 3 years at USC were incredibly similar to his first year in the NFL. Some good, some bad and some continuously thinking that there should just be more in there...but we never see the consistency. It’s just amazing to me that so many of you are so set on Darnold being a superstar because he makes an incredible play once in awhile. The body of work, if you want to be objective, leaves a shit ton to be desired. But hey, ESPN talked about him a lot! Superstar!
I never said Darnold was a definite superstar. But I think he’s a much safer bet to get there than Haskins.
And because I understand the circumstances, I’m not sure why that is discarded as irrelevant. OSU has a clear and distinct advantage in talent and depth over every other Big Ten program. I follow high school recruiting and it’s not even close.
Meyer’s mission was to build an SEC program like he did at Florida. And he certainly did. They are the only team in the Big Ten who could move to the SEC and compete for the SEC Championship. So this talent advantage afforded Haskins a great environment to succeed. They are going to have at six players from that offense drafted in April.
Which is the segue into my comparison of the two. I watched both of them plenty in college, especially Darnold since I unfortunately domiciled in LA most of the past 3 years. I loved Darnold, especially his redshirt frosh year (his first starting year). The thing anyone will tell you about him - his best quality - is that he's a winner and a leader of men, corny as that sounds. His leadership isn't rah-rah, but he's unflappable and no matter what bonehead mistake he or any team mate made to put USC in a hole, Darnold was all business, all about moving on to the next play. The mental aspect of QB play is incredibly important (compare Eli vs Kerry Collins) and Darnold has the comportment to win SBs.
His arm is plenty strong - he can make any throw - but not terribly accurate. Even when passing out of clean pocket he will miss open receivers every now and then. I'm no QB guru and can't tell you WHY, but he will and does misfire. It showed up most clearly for me in his last game vs Rosen and UCLA. I really looked forward to that game in 2017 because I thought it was a likely preview of who the next Giants' QB would be. Going into the game I liked Darnold more than Rosen, immediately after that game I though Rosen was the better NFL prospect because his throws are ever so much more consistently accurate. I don't think Darnold is great at reading the field, but can't say I have stats or ever viewed an all-22 tape to back that up. Just a sense I have of him and the way his decision making seemed to take time, that I didn't see Rosen or Haskins need so much in comparison.
When talking about throwing the ball Haskins is much closer to Rosen than Darnold vis a vis accuracy, and probably has more arm strength than either one.
What I don't see Haskins getting credit for enough is the way he rallied OSU from behind late in games when the OSU defense looked like a sieve with its bottom torn out or when the OSU offense just didn't get untracked the first half. He has the same unflappable mentality that Darnold has, and while he's a much less dynamic runner, he's better at seeing the field and unloading the ball quickly. He won't need to run as much as Darnold does, IMO.
Most importantly, I think both of them have a winner's mentality and the desire to excel - at least from what I could see on game day.
But some people on the internet will try and convince everyone that Haskins isn’t remotely close to darnold as a prospect. Never mind the facts about to smack you all right in the face when Haskins does in fact go top 5-6, and I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong if he doesn’t, but yeah sure Haskins isn’t even close to darnold because you say so. Never mind what the pro scouts and GMs do. Never mind that for every Jeremiah there are ten others talkies and writers and former scouts saying Haskins is darnolds equal. No no we can’t have any QBs from this class better the exhalted class of 2018....
But some people on the internet will try and convince everyone that Haskins isn’t remotely close to darnold as a prospect. Never mind the facts about to smack you all right in the face when Haskins does in fact go top 5-6, and I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong if he doesn’t, but yeah sure Haskins isn’t even close to darnold because you say so. Never mind what the pro scouts and GMs do. Never mind that for every Jeremiah there are ten others talkies and writers and former scouts saying Haskins is darnolds equal. No no we can’t have any QBs from this class better the exhalted class of 2018....
Darnold was better off script for sure and has that it factor as a QB.
But I love Haskins mental processing and precision throws. Haskins has just enough mobility to extend plays (not like Darnold though).
Sonic Youth : 3/25/2019 5:45 pm : link : reply
If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question
Watching college football tells one who is better? Just watching the game, or the two players play?
Because Haskins didn't play long, but when he did play, he was pretty damn impressive.
Seems like a throwaway line used because you really don't know how to explain your position, but a little condescending seems to go a long way!!
Thankfully these aren't the only two choices.
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darnold by far
Sonic Youth : 3/25/2019 5:45 pm : link : reply
If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question
Watching college football tells one who is better? Just watching the game, or the two players play?
Because Haskins didn't play long, but when he did play, he was pretty damn impressive.
Seems like a throwaway line used because you really don't know how to explain your position, but a little condescending seems to go a long way!!
All you have to do is watch youtube, or play a game of Madden, to clearly see Darnold is better.
Yes, we're definitely not divvy to that.
I mean for people saying that Darnold is far and away better than Haskins... okay, so if you put Sam Darnold in that Ohio State offense last year, he would have thrown 70 TDs (compared to Haskins's 50 TDs)? What about the fact Haskins only threw 8 INTs? Darnold, the turnover machine, would have thrown fewer? It's not like Darnold didn't have great talent around him at USC, that's the thing I also don't understand. On his college tape you see passes way off target, terrible spiral, where receivers are adjusting and making incredible catches. It's not like he was playing for Duke, he was at USC for chrissakes, which is a program known for making QBs look way better than they actually are (Leinhart, Sanchez).
Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with Darnold's ability to go through progressions quickly, avoid the rush, and make great plays on the run. He is a gamer and I think he'll be a solid starter. But this idea that he was a can't-miss prospect who was head and shoulders above any QBs from last year, this year, next year, whatever, just doesn't sound right to me based on everything I've seen from him.
Again I think as always these are 2 very different QBs and for both of them it's going to come down to the right situation. For instance, Darnold does have better mobility than Haskins and therefore Haskins may require a good o-line to be good (just as we've always said about Eli) but I think in the right situation I see no reason why Haskins couldn't have a more consistent, more efficient, and certainly even more productive NFL career than Sam Darnold.