Haskins vs Darnold

He lucked out by now having Bell as his RB, so he should by addition, be more effective.

But you can put very little stock in first year play. Anyone who remembers ELi's first year will remember for much of it he looked like a poor man's Kyle Lauletta. He turned out ok.

From my vantage point he was clearly among the best from a prototypical tools standpoint but he had 1 weakness that seems more glaring that anyone this year - turnovers.

He had 13 INT's and 12 fumbles (9 lost) his final year at USC (14 games). In his college career he played in 27 college games and had 21 fumbles and 22 ints. In 13 games as a Jet he had 20 turnovers (15 int / 5 fumbles).

By comparison, QB Drew lock started 50 college games and had just 8 lost fumbles. Daniel Jones started 36 games and lost 13. Haskins lost 2 this year and 2 the year prior. Expanding to Fromm, through 2 years & 29 games he's only lost 3. Each also had fewer INT's in their final season.

I don't know if any of these guys will have more of a consensus in the room and get selected to be the next giants QB, but I can understand why there was some pause at the thought of bypassing a unique talent like Barkley for Darnold.

Haskins much higher than Darnold.

But I'm not an evaluator and I'm doing it solely based on the fact that Darnold is playing for green-clad schmucks

Thanks forgot about Darnold's turnover issues.

In terms of athletic ability Darnold is better but Haskins arm strength and talent is better Darnold.

They both have very good arm talent. In fact, I think Haskins might have more.

They both are good at throwing on off-platforms.

What impressed me about Darnold was his competitiveness. He would play his best football when he was under tremendous duress. The Ohio State game was one in which they beat the crap out of Darnold (and USC), and Darnold kept giving them all they wanted, even late when the game was decided, he was still playing to win.

I think Darnold's mobility is better. And when I'm talking about mobility I really mean escapability to extend plays and make accurate passes on broken plays.

I don't have enough film to watch Haskins in that regard. And his teammates were so much better than everyone else, I rarely see him under duress. I don't see him have to throw into many tight windows because his receivers were so much better than their opponents.

I'm really impressed with Haskins' arm and his accuracy. He makes good throws even flat flooted. I just don't have enough on him to watch him escape a collapsing pocket and make positive plays with his arm like I have with Darnold. And I'm not saying that tape isn't out there, it's harder for me to see it this year because of the collapse of the DraftBreakdown website.

BTW, Darnold got better as the season went along, I think the Jets are going to be pleased with him as their QB.

And I was impressed with him as a rookie as well. Yes, he made some mistakes trying to do too much from time to time.
Do you blame him? He was the youngest QB ever to start an NFL game playing in a talentless offense under a coaching staff that was in over their head. Expect huge improvement from him this year.

but the Jets seriously need to fix that offensive line and get him a true #1 WR. Adding an aging declining Osemele will not fix the line.

In comment 14355963 Jay on the Island said:

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but the Jets seriously need to fix that offensive line and get him a true #1 WR. Adding an aging declining Osemele will not fix the line.

True, but Bell, if he hasn’t lost much, will be enormous for him, imv

a more athletic Eli to me due to the high number of TOs. And after his rookie season I still feel that way. He's going to have games where you go "wow, he's definitely an elite QB!" and others where you just shake your head. Who knows if Darnold has the "it" factor and if he'll be able to put together a hot streak (or two) and help carry a team to the SB.

Not really sure what a good comp is for Haskins yet.

Darnold.

Better athlete, can make plays on the move, better arm, and a higher floor.

Darnold by Alot.

In comment 14355968 bw in dc said:

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Darnold. Better athlete, can make plays on the move, better arm, and a higher floor.

He might be a slightly better athlete but Haskins has received a bum rap regarding his athleticism. He wont win any races but he is really good at manipulating the pocket and keeping his eyes down field. Looks like Roethlisberger in that regard.

As far as arm talent, I totally disagree - I think Haskins is better in terms of velocity and accuracy. He also has a much quicker delivery and has much better ball security.

Against Michigan, I saw him carve up a very good defense.

Against Penn State, I saw his get rattled early by a lot of pressure, but then calmed down and dominated down the stretch.

Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory



He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops)

16/24 170 1td 1int
24/38 253 2td 0int
24/35 341 3td 0int
16/28 167 0td 0int

Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league

The biggest knock that comes up most often in regards to Haskins is a lack of experience. "He only has one year as a starter." If he were to go back to OSU and have a solid second season, not even on par with what he did this past season, there would be no argument about him being a top 3 pick. He has all the tools, is a prototypical drop back, pocket QB, but people want to see more of a track record.

The reason it is an interesting comparison, is that Sam Darnold is the perfect example of why this line of thinking is flawed. Darnold had a stellar 1st year with USC, and heading into his sophomore season, it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to be the big prize come draft day. His second season ended up being a disappointment, his completion percentage was down and turnovers were way up. He didn't live up to the lofty expectations placed on him, and it didn't matter! He was still considered the top QB prospect by many, and ended up being a top 3 pick.

So why do we need the extra year out of Haskins to solidify his place at the top of the draft? Unless he completely shit the bed in year 2, the opinion of him isn't going to change. Scouts and evaluators would still look at his stellar 2018 season, and grade him as a top QB prospect based on that just as they did with Darnold.

Surprised at the good vibes around Darnold.

In comment 14355862 Big Blue '56 said:

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He lucked out by now having Bell as his RB, so he should by addition, be more effective.

Santonio Holmes 2.0. Somebody get me my popcorn.

In comment 14356021 Coach Red Beaulieu said:

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In comment 14355862 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: He lucked out by now having Bell as his RB, so he should by addition, be more effective. Santonio Holmes 2.0. Somebody get me my popcorn.

Get ready for a very frustrating next 15 years

In comment 14356007 Mike in NJ said:

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The biggest knock that comes up most often in regards to Haskins is a lack of experience. "He only has one year as a starter." If he were to go back to OSU and have a solid second season, not even on par with what he did this past season, there would be no argument about him being a top 3 pick. He has all the tools, is a prototypical drop back, pocket QB, but people want to see more of a track record. The reason it is an interesting comparison, is that Sam Darnold is the perfect example of why this line of thinking is flawed. Darnold had a stellar 1st year with USC, and heading into his sophomore season, it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to be the big prize come draft day. His second season ended up being a disappointment, his completion percentage was down and turnovers were way up. He didn't live up to the lofty expectations placed on him, and it didn't matter! He was still considered the top QB prospect by many, and ended up being a top 3 pick. So why do we need the extra year out of Haskins to solidify his place at the top of the draft? Unless he completely shit the bed in year 2, the opinion of him isn't going to change. Scouts and evaluators would still look at his stellar 2018 season, and grade him as a top QB prospect based on that just as they did with Darnold.

I think that's the wrong takeaway. Darnold was clearly knocked off the top QB spot bc of his 2nd year. That's not insignificant - and seeing how Mayfield performed it turned about to be an important data point.

I don't know if Haskins or Murray would be in the category with Darnold where a down senior year just slides them back slightly or into more of a major fall off. There are a ton of guys who have had the the latter happen to them. But either way I think as evidenced with Darnold/Mayfield, there would be an important data point.

In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said:

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Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory

That's comical, interestingly Haskins grade from NFL.com put him second among last years class, but you know better.

In comment 14355986 Capt. Don said:

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He might be a slightly better athlete but Haskins has received a bum rap regarding his athleticism. He wont win any races but he is really good at manipulating the pocket and keeping his eyes down field. Looks like Roethlisberger in that regard. As far as arm talent, I totally disagree - I think Haskins is better in terms of velocity and accuracy. He also has a much quicker delivery and has much better ball security.

Did you see Darnold's last year at SC? His OL was a real mess and he was constantly dealing with an inconsistent pocket. And that really got exposed in their bowl game against Ohio State.

But Darnold showed some wonderful athleticism keeping plays alive and making plays on the move. Haskins isn't a statue and can be nimble. But there isn't enough evidence to convince me he's in Darnold's class on this.

You certainly raise a good point about ball security. I need to see how Darnold did this year with fumbles. That number escapes me.

In comment 14355886 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Haskins much higher than Darnold. But I'm not an evaluator and I'm doing it solely based on the fact that Darnold is playing for green-clad schmucks

That is the best evaluation I have ever read!

I actually laughed out loud.

and could be great...but you are cherry picking stats.

If you want to boil his rookie year down to 3 games, why not the 3 games before the injury where he completed 47% of his passes threw 2 TDs and 7 interceptions with two of those games having a passer rating below 35?

Or how about that he threw 13 picks in 2017 for USC good for most in the conference and 10th most in the entire country. Add 9 fumbles to that and you are approaching Jameis Winston ball security issues.

See how easy it is to cherry pick to prove a point?

In comment 14356022 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

In comment 14356021 Coach Red Beaulieu said: Quote: In comment 14355862 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: He lucked out by now having Bell as his RB, so he should by addition, be more effective. Santonio Holmes 2.0. Somebody get me my popcorn. Get ready for a very frustrating next 15 years

Hey shithead don't you have anything better to do than post your idiotic Jets nonsense on a Giants site. As you can see nobody gives a shit about your biased opinions. If you think this years Haskins would have been drafted on day two last year then you really are a fucking moron. Chris Carter was just talking about Haskins the other day and said he has a rare "special" arm. I trust his opinion over some Jets fan who probably hasn't even seen Haskins play in a real game. Go enjoy the Jets offseason because that will be the highlight of their year.

In comment 14355917 allstarjim said:

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They both have very good arm talent. In fact, I think Haskins might have more. They both are good at throwing on off-platforms. What impressed me about Darnold was his competitiveness. He would play his best football when he was under tremendous duress. The Ohio State game was one in which they beat the crap out of Darnold (and USC), and Darnold kept giving them all they wanted, even late when the game was decided, he was still playing to win. I think Darnold's mobility is better. And when I'm talking about mobility I really mean escapability to extend plays and make accurate passes on broken plays. I don't have enough film to watch Haskins in that regard. And his teammates were so much better than everyone else, I rarely see him under duress. I don't see him have to throw into many tight windows because his receivers were so much better than their opponents. I'm really impressed with Haskins' arm and his accuracy. He makes good throws even flat flooted. I just don't have enough on him to watch him escape a collapsing pocket and make positive plays with his arm like I have with Darnold. And I'm not saying that tape isn't out there, it's harder for me to see it this year because of the collapse of the DraftBreakdown website. BTW, Darnold got better as the season went along, I think the Jets are going to be pleased with him as their QB.

Agree that Darnold is going to be a real good one. If it weren't for Barkley id be pretty pissed we didnt get Darnold. Now we are again in position to get a franchise QB. To get Barkley and a franchise QB in consecutive drafts would be pretty amazing.

In comment 14356026 BSIMatt said:

Quote:

In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said: Quote: Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory That's comical, interestingly Haskins grade from NFL.com put him second among last years class, but you know better.

He has a complex scouting formula. Not a Jet = journeyman, Jet = surefire all-pro.

In comment 14356032 Capt. Don said:

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and could be great...but you are cherry picking stats. If you want to boil his rookie year down to 3 games, why not the 3 games before the injury where he completed 47% of his passes threw 2 TDs and 7 interceptions with two of those games having a passer rating below 35? Or how about that he threw 13 picks in 2017 for USC good for most in the conference and 10th most in the entire country. Add 9 fumbles to that and you are approaching Jameis Winston ball security issues. See how easy it is to cherry pick to prove a point?

Is this to me? I didn't refer to any stats to cherry pick...

“In terms of grades — the grade I had on them coming out (of college) and not what they’ve done (since) — I had Darnold with the highest grade, then it was Rosen, then it was Mayfield,” said Jeremiah, a former college quarterback and college scout for the Eagles, Browns and Ravens.

“Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.”

https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html

In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops) 16/24 170 1td 1int 24/38 253 2td 0int 24/35 341 3td 0int 16/28 167 0td 0int Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league

No bias at all there, right?

Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.

In comment 14356065 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

“In terms of grades — the grade I had on them coming out (of college) and not what they’ve done (since) — I had Darnold with the highest grade, then it was Rosen, then it was Mayfield,” said Jeremiah, a former college quarterback and college scout for the Eagles, Browns and Ravens. “Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.” https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html

Go away.

Darnold is 10x >>> Haskins but a friend of mind recently said Haskins reminds him of Darnold which I did not get at all...

In comment 14356069 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said: Quote: Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops) 16/24 170 1td 1int 24/38 253 2td 0int 24/35 341 3td 0int 16/28 167 0td 0int Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league No bias at all there, right? Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.

I have entirely conventional views on humanity.

In comment 14356065 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

“In terms of grades — the grade I had on them coming out (of college) and not what they’ve done (since) — I had Darnold with the highest grade, then it was Rosen, then it was Mayfield,” said Jeremiah, a former college quarterback and college scout for the Eagles, Browns and Ravens. “Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.” https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html

It's one guy, and I just gave you an alternative viewpoint that has them ordered differently. We could go round and round all day posting alternative views of the quarterbacks.

In comment 14356065 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

“In terms of grades — the grade I had on them coming out (of college) and not what they’ve done (since) — I had Darnold with the highest grade, then it was Rosen, then it was Mayfield,” said Jeremiah, a former college quarterback and college scout for the Eagles, Browns and Ravens. “Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.” https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html

Stop cherry picking things. Just like you cherry picked the 3 games after his injury. Why did you not pick the 3 games before the injury? The three games where he played AWFUL!

You are picking the Jeremiah grades because they suit your argument - no other reason.

Now that that's been addressed. Here's Ian Wharton's charting of QB's in 2018 and 2019. Ordered by accuracy past the line of scrimmage. Colors are quartiles and in order: green, yellow, orange, red.

Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14356065 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

“In terms of grades — the grade I had on them coming out (of college) and not what they’ve done (since) — I had Darnold with the highest grade, then it was Rosen, then it was Mayfield,” said Jeremiah, a former college quarterback and college scout for the Eagles, Browns and Ravens. “Then I gave the same grade to Allen as my fourth quarterback last year as I gave to Kyler Murray this year. They would be tied for No. 4. Then Haskins would be behind them and Jackson would be behind him. That would be the order I have stacking those guys in with last year’s class based purely off the grade.” https://www.nj.com/sports/2019/02/nfl-combine-2019-an-evaluation-that-should-terrify-giants-on-path-to-qb-hell-dwayne-haskins-vs-2018-nfl-draft-qbs.html

So you say that Haskins would go around "Mason Rudolph territory" who was drafted in round 3 then post one mans opinion who ranks Haskins ahead of Lamar Jackson who went in round 1.

In comment 14356069 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said: Quote: Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops) 16/24 170 1td 1int 24/38 253 2td 0int 24/35 341 3td 0int 16/28 167 0td 0int Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league No bias at all there, right? Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team.

I'm pretty objective when it comes to QB's. You won't find a bigger fan of Eli Manning. I'd put Eli in the Hall of Fame. I HATED Sanchez and Geno Smith from the getgo and was proven right on both. I still remember reading the below scouting report on Geno and just having it resonate...it was all that I suspected of the guy. Idzik's selection of him was a braindead choice

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/4/3/4178418/geno-smith-scouting-report-from-pfw-is-scathing

overall with Darnold I've seen a lot of extremely advanced stuff, under incredible duress too. And he has great intelligence and the work ethic. Hard to not see him working out.

In comment 14356102 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

In comment 14356069 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said: Quote: Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops) 16/24 170 1td 1int 24/38 253 2td 0int 24/35 341 3td 0int 16/28 167 0td 0int Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league No bias at all there, right? Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team. I'm pretty objective when it comes to QB's. You won't find a bigger fan of Eli Manning. I'd put Eli in the Hall of Fame. I HATED Sanchez and Geno Smith from the getgo and was proven right on both. I still remember reading the below scouting report on Geno and just having it resonate...it was all that I suspected of the guy. Idzik's selection of him was a braindead choice https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/4/3/4178418/geno-smith-scouting-report-from-pfw-is-scathing overall with Darnold I've seen a lot of extremely advanced stuff, under incredible duress too. And he has great intelligence and the work ethic. Hard to not see him working out.

I think nobody questions Darnold's ability as a player, I said going into draft I would have been ok with Giants taking either Barkely or Darnold. I think your comparison of Haskins to Mason Rudolph, and the lol at comparing him to Darnold as a prospect are the points posters are taking issue with. Darnold may have be the better prospect coming out, but it's not by much, and part of it is the knock on Haskins only having 1 year, which really says nothing about his ability as a player it's just potentially increases risk with having less games to judge him on.

Haskins to Mason Rudolph then it shows that you clearly know nothing about Haskins. They couldn't be more different. Mason Rudolph fell because he had below average arm strength and he also didn't have one special trait. Dwayne Haskins has a great arm and in terms of arm strength he would have been behind only Josh Allen last year. Haskins is also more accurate.

In comment 14356076 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

In comment 14356069 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said: Quote: Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops) 16/24 170 1td 1int 24/38 253 2td 0int 24/35 341 3td 0int 16/28 167 0td 0int Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league No bias at all there, right? Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team. I have entirely conventional views on humanity.

Just because the thread got immediately deleted doesn't mean that there aren't people here who remember that you referred to an entire segment of the population as "disgusting" for nothing other than their sexuality. If you honestly believe those are conventional views in 2019, you're a lost cause.

There is no reason for you to continue coming to this board. And yet you do. You're a troll, plain and simple. If you weren't, you'd just find a Jets board and converse with your own fellow fans. But that's not what you're after, is it?

There are two big differences. Haskins is better from the pocket while Darnold is better off platform on the move. Haskins has played QB all his life and it shows while darnold came late to the position and is still growing into it even as a pro.

For me. Better legs and has the ability to throw on the run, which I love in a QB. Haskins has the better throwing arm from what I’ve seen, but I still take Darnold in a heartbeat.

and cant throw from different platforms and I think that is actually a strength of his.

Watch him on film - he is a Roethlisberger clone in terms of avoiding pressure and keeping his eyes down field.

Ben wont run away from you but he keeps plays alive with his eyes down field and that is Haskins.

I want Rosen for #37 or Haskins at 6.

In comment 14356133 Torrag said:

Quote:

There are two big differences. Haskins is better from the pocket while Darnold is better off platform on the move. Haskins has played QB all his life and it shows while darnold came late to the position and is still growing into it even as a pro.

Not sure how you arrived at Haskins being a better pocket passer. Based on what?

Darnold didn't have they luxury of a great pocket week after week.

And if Haskins was this polished QB - that you are suggesting - do you wonder why he couldn't beat out JT Barrett?

Offensive weapons in his 2nd year were not nearly as good as the prior year.

In comment 14356213 bw in dc said:

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And if Haskins was this polished QB - that you are suggesting - do you wonder why he couldn't beat out JT Barrett?

Haskins, as a freshman, couldn't beat out the incumbent senior starter who was also Ohio State's all-time career leader in passing yards and TDs? Oh, no!

In comment 14356227 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 14356213 bw in dc said: Quote: And if Haskins was this polished QB - that you are suggesting - do you wonder why he couldn't beat out JT Barrett? Haskins, as a freshman, couldn't beat out the incumbent senior starter who was also Ohio State's all-time career leader in passing yards and TDs? Oh, no!

Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted.

In comment 14356328 BSIMatt said:

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Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted.

For the record, USC was trying to get Darnold to move to LB his freshman year. So that created some tension b/c Darnold didn't want to. So the SC staff decided to red-shirt him.

In comment 14356213 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14356133 Torrag said: Quote: There are two big differences. Haskins is better from the pocket while Darnold is better off platform on the move. Haskins has played QB all his life and it shows while darnold came late to the position and is still growing into it even as a pro. Not sure how you arrived at Haskins being a better pocket passer. Based on what? Darnold didn't have they luxury of a great pocket week after week. And if Haskins was this polished QB - that you are suggesting - do you wonder why he couldn't beat out JT Barrett?

They basically did the exact same thing. Darnold redshirted his first year and was behind the Cody Kessler and Max Browne. The next year he started as the backup to the immortal Max Browne. He only got the nod 3 games in cause Max Browne was awful. Meanwhile Haskins after his redshirt freshman year sat behind a senior considered one of the favorites for the Heisman trophy in 2017.

In comment 14356347 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14356328 BSIMatt said: Quote: Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted. For the record, USC was trying to get Darnold to move to LB his freshman year. So that created some tension b/c Darnold didn't want to. So the SC staff decided to red-shirt him.

That doesn't make your point well if the coaching staff at USC didn't even see Darnold as a QB. No one was trying to move Haskins to a LBer.

In comment 14356112 BSIMatt said:

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In comment 14356102 fanofthejets said: Quote: In comment 14356069 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 14356003 fanofthejets said: Quote: Lol. It's no comparison. If this years version of Haskins was coming out last year he would be drafted around Mason Rudolph territory He had a stretch of 3 games as soon as he came back from injury where in that 3 game period he was the league's highest rated passer. And that's as a 21 year old with no talent around him (and lots of drops) 16/24 170 1td 1int 24/38 253 2td 0int 24/35 341 3td 0int 16/28 167 0td 0int Future is very bright for him. Definitely somebody who is going to be a top 5 QB in the league for a long time. His work ethic, ability to intake and process information rapidly, and ability to make incredible throws on the run really make him a sure fire budding star in the league No bias at all there, right? Why do you continue to come back here? Did every Jets board run you off already? Maybe everyone needs to be reminded that your views on humanity are as misguided as your choice of your preferred NFL team. I'm pretty objective when it comes to QB's. You won't find a bigger fan of Eli Manning. I'd put Eli in the Hall of Fame. I HATED Sanchez and Geno Smith from the getgo and was proven right on both. I still remember reading the below scouting report on Geno and just having it resonate...it was all that I suspected of the guy. Idzik's selection of him was a braindead choice https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/4/3/4178418/geno-smith-scouting-report-from-pfw-is-scathing overall with Darnold I've seen a lot of extremely advanced stuff, under incredible duress too. And he has great intelligence and the work ethic. Hard to not see him working out. I think nobody questions Darnold's ability as a player, I said going into draft I would have been ok with Giants taking either Barkely or Darnold. I think your comparison of Haskins to Mason Rudolph, and the lol at comparing him to Darnold as a prospect are the points posters are taking issue with. Darnold may have be the better prospect coming out, but it's not by much, and part of it is the knock on Haskins only having 1 year, which really says nothing about his ability as a player it's just potentially increases risk with having less games to judge him on.

Darnold is going to be a good one. He has more escapibility than Haskins for sure.

But Haskins has many many other qualities that translate extremely well.

Haskins like he’s the devil incarnate, well riddle me this Batman. Were either of Darnold’s USC years on par with Haskins? He had a Tremendous first (and only) year. His ability to anticipate, to move a defense with his eyes are LIGHT years beyond Sam’s. What Darnold is really good at is outside the pocket playing a little street ball. When kept in the pocket he isn’t nearly as effective. Haskins may not have enough functional mobility at the pro level to be successful but I believe he has a VERY high ceiling.

In comment 14356366 Deejboy said:

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In comment 14356347 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 14356328 BSIMatt said: Quote: Yeah, lol, as a true freshman couldn’t beat Barrett in his senior season, very much like Darnold who sat his freshman year and redshirted. For the record, USC was trying to get Darnold to move to LB his freshman year. So that created some tension b/c Darnold didn't want to. So the SC staff decided to red-shirt him. That doesn't make your point well if the coaching staff at USC didn't even see Darnold as a QB. No one was trying to move Haskins to a LBer.

It was just for the record. Darnold was such a good athlete, and a good LBer in high school, the SC staff thought, well, this kid is gifted enough to help us at another position of need.

In a way, it's a flattering commentary on Darnold the athlete...that's all...

In comment 14356512 Dave on the UWS said:

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Haskins like he’s the devil incarnate, well riddle me this Batman. Were either of Darnold’s USC years on par with Haskins? He had a Tremendous first (and only) year. His ability to anticipate, to move a defense with his eyes are LIGHT years beyond Sam’s. What Darnold is really good at is outside the pocket playing a little street ball. When kept in the pocket he isn’t nearly as effective. Haskins may not have enough functional mobility at the pro level to be successful but I believe he has a VERY high ceiling.

Of course, another mischaracterization of my position on Haskins. I don't hate Haskins. This is about optimizing draft value. And I don't think Haskins is worth a #6 pick. I really don't know why that is hard to reconcile.

Darnold played on an SC with a lot of holes on offense. Fortunately for SC, Darnold was good enough to help cover up those deficiencies with his play.

If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question

In comment 14356571 Sonic Youth said:

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If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question

Odd statement considering the numbers. Take a look at each players sophomore campaigns:
Haskins 70% Comp 4831 yds 50 td 8 int 4 fumbles 2 lost
Darnold 63.1% comp 4143 yds 26 td 13 int 12 fumbles 9 lost

In comment 14356608 Jay on the Island said:
[quote] In comment 14356571 Sonic Youth said:


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If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question


Odd statement considering the numbers. Take a look at each players sophomore campaigns:
Haskins 70% Comp 4831 yds 50 td 8 int 4 fumbles 2 lost
Darnold 63.1% comp 4143 yds 26 td 13 int 12 fumbles 9 lost [/quote

If you assume everything is equal, this comparison may be apt.

But, as you know, that simply wasn't the case.

If we draft Haskins I sure hope he's better than Darnold

In comment 14356618 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14356608 Jay on the Island said: [quote] In comment 14356571 Sonic Youth said: Quote: If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question Odd statement considering the numbers. Take a look at each players sophomore campaigns: Haskins 70% Comp 4831 yds 50 td 8 int 4 fumbles 2 lost Darnold 63.1% comp 4143 yds 26 td 13 int 12 fumbles 9 lost [/quote If you assume everything is equal, this comparison may be apt. But, as you know, that simply wasn't the case.

I fully understand the situations are different but I odn't see how you can say Darnold is by far the better prospect when referring to their college performances.

If only Darnold didn’t have to play in that DIII wasteland called USC he would have actually had some talent around him! What an amazing job he did of holding such a down trodden team afloat!

It’s also funny how we are comparing 3 years of Darnold versus one year of Haskins. Haskins in one season made anything Darnold did in three seasons look laughable. But, hey, he was pushed down our throats for 3 seasons so he must be awesome! I seen his name on the internet and never heard of Haskins before this season. Easy choice. Give me name recognition lol day baby!

In comment 14356640 BigBlueShock said:

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If only Darnold didn’t have to play in that DIII wasteland called USC he would have actually had some talent around him! What an amazing job he did of holding such a down trodden team afloat! It’s also funny how we are comparing 3 years of Darnold versus one year of Haskins. Haskins in one season made anything Darnold did in three seasons look laughable. But, hey, he was pushed down our throats for 3 seasons so he must be awesome! I seen his name on the internet and never heard of Haskins before this season. Easy choice. Give me name recognition lol day baby!

Uh, I went two of Haskins’s games in high school at Bullis. So you may want to be a bit more measured with your brush.

USC was still limited to 15 new scholarships than 25 through 2016, stemming from the Bush case. So they struggled with depth issues during Darnold’s time.

In comment 14356670 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14356640 BigBlueShock said: Quote: If only Darnold didn’t have to play in that DIII wasteland called USC he would have actually had some talent around him! What an amazing job he did of holding such a down trodden team afloat! It’s also funny how we are comparing 3 years of Darnold versus one year of Haskins. Haskins in one season made anything Darnold did in three seasons look laughable. But, hey, he was pushed down our throats for 3 seasons so he must be awesome! I seen his name on the internet and never heard of Haskins before this season. Easy choice. Give me name recognition lol day baby! Uh, I went two of Haskins’s games in high school at Bullis. So you may want to be a bit more measured with your brush. USC was still limited to 15 new scholarships than 25 through 2016, stemming from the Bush case. So they struggled with depth issues during Darnold’s time.

Poor guy. How did he ever manage with such little talent and such an incredibly gifted defensive conference?

All you do is kill Haskins for playing with such awesome talent against enormously overwhelmed opponents. Problem is the Big 10 is the monsters of midway compared to the PAC 12. No comparison. At least be objective in your opinions. The PAC 12 is a dumpster fire and has been for a long time. And USC basically gets any players they want. So spare me the bullshit that Haskins was better in one year than Darnold was in all three of his years because Darnold was somehow a victim of terrible talent and managed to put them on his back and will them to victory. His 3 years at USC were incredibly similar to his first year in the NFL. Some good, some bad and some continuously thinking that there should just be more in there...but we never see the consistency. It’s just amazing to me that so many of you are so set on Darnold being a superstar because he makes an incredible play once in awhile. The body of work, if you want to be objective, leaves a shit ton to be desired. But hey, ESPN talked about him a lot! Superstar!

Darnold has great feet, Haskins has poor feet. Darnold is a plus athlete, Haskins by his own admission is out of shape.

Haskins can throw the ball beautifully when everything is functioning. I'm sure he looks fantastic in workouts and 7 on 7s. But that isn't real life. He reminds me of Kerry Collins...a human JUGS machine. That's great in practice, but not so much against live bullets.

Lol

In comment 14356699 Go Terps said:

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Darnold has great feet, Haskins has poor feet. Darnold is a plus athlete, Haskins by his own admission is out of shape. Haskins can throw the ball beautifully when everything is functioning. I'm sure he looks fantastic in workouts and 7 on 7s. But that isn't real life. He reminds me of Kerry Collins...a human JUGS machine. That's great in practice, but not so much against live bullets.

Any QB is going to throw the ball better when well protected, for all his plus athlete qualities he still mustered 36 turnovers in 2 years at two years at USC. The athleticism difference between the two is exaggerated imo. He ran a 4.85 to Haskins 5, and Haskins outjumped him in the vertical by 2 inches.

My phone.

In comment 14356692 BigBlueShock said:

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Poor guy. How did he ever manage with such little talent and such an incredibly gifted defensive conference? All you do is kill Haskins for playing with such awesome talent against enormously overwhelmed opponents. Problem is the Big 10 is the monsters of midway compared to the PAC 12. No comparison. At least be objective in your opinions. The PAC 12 is a dumpster fire and has been for a long time. And USC basically gets any players they want. So spare me the bullshit that Haskins was better in one year than Darnold was in all three of his years because Darnold was somehow a victim of terrible talent and managed to put them on his back and will them to victory. His 3 years at USC were incredibly similar to his first year in the NFL. Some good, some bad and some continuously thinking that there should just be more in there...but we never see the consistency. It’s just amazing to me that so many of you are so set on Darnold being a superstar because he makes an incredible play once in awhile. The body of work, if you want to be objective, leaves a shit ton to be desired. But hey, ESPN talked about him a lot! Superstar!

I never said Darnold was a definite superstar. But I think he’s a much safer bet to get there than Haskins.

And because I understand the circumstances, I’m not sure why that is discarded as irrelevant. OSU has a clear and distinct advantage in talent and depth over every other Big Ten program. I follow high school recruiting and it’s not even close.

Meyer’s mission was to build an SEC program like he did at Florida. And he certainly did. They are the only team in the Big Ten who could move to the SEC and compete for the SEC Championship. So this talent advantage afforded Haskins a great environment to succeed. They are going to have at six players from that offense drafted in April.

Go post on Jets Interactive or whatever. Why come here & post?

quite a few nifty skills players and and above average OL, but he had several opportunities to show he could be "the man" and put OSU on his back, just as Darnold did at USC.

Which is the segue into my comparison of the two. I watched both of them plenty in college, especially Darnold since I unfortunately domiciled in LA most of the past 3 years. I loved Darnold, especially his redshirt frosh year (his first starting year). The thing anyone will tell you about him - his best quality - is that he's a winner and a leader of men, corny as that sounds. His leadership isn't rah-rah, but he's unflappable and no matter what bonehead mistake he or any team mate made to put USC in a hole, Darnold was all business, all about moving on to the next play. The mental aspect of QB play is incredibly important (compare Eli vs Kerry Collins) and Darnold has the comportment to win SBs.

His arm is plenty strong - he can make any throw - but not terribly accurate. Even when passing out of clean pocket he will miss open receivers every now and then. I'm no QB guru and can't tell you WHY, but he will and does misfire. It showed up most clearly for me in his last game vs Rosen and UCLA. I really looked forward to that game in 2017 because I thought it was a likely preview of who the next Giants' QB would be. Going into the game I liked Darnold more than Rosen, immediately after that game I though Rosen was the better NFL prospect because his throws are ever so much more consistently accurate. I don't think Darnold is great at reading the field, but can't say I have stats or ever viewed an all-22 tape to back that up. Just a sense I have of him and the way his decision making seemed to take time, that I didn't see Rosen or Haskins need so much in comparison.

When talking about throwing the ball Haskins is much closer to Rosen than Darnold vis a vis accuracy, and probably has more arm strength than either one.

What I don't see Haskins getting credit for enough is the way he rallied OSU from behind late in games when the OSU defense looked like a sieve with its bottom torn out or when the OSU offense just didn't get untracked the first half. He has the same unflappable mentality that Darnold has, and while he's a much less dynamic runner, he's better at seeing the field and unloading the ball quickly. He won't need to run as much as Darnold does, IMO.

Most importantly, I think both of them have a winner's mentality and the desire to excel - at least from what I could see on game day.

..

To be drafted top 6 this year. Could be drafted within top 3 for all we know. Darnold went 3rd last year.

But some people on the internet will try and convince everyone that Haskins isn’t remotely close to darnold as a prospect. Never mind the facts about to smack you all right in the face when Haskins does in fact go top 5-6, and I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong if he doesn’t, but yeah sure Haskins isn’t even close to darnold because you say so. Never mind what the pro scouts and GMs do. Never mind that for every Jeremiah there are ten others talkies and writers and former scouts saying Haskins is darnolds equal. No no we can’t have any QBs from this class better the exhalted class of 2018....

He's statistically more accurate to every level of the field and threw at a much lower INT rate. You think he achieved that being a worse pocket passer than Darnold? Most plays still happen within the confines of the pocket.

In comment 14356784 djm said:

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To be drafted top 6 this year. Could be drafted within top 3 for all we know. Darnold went 3rd last year. But some people on the internet will try and convince everyone that Haskins isn’t remotely close to darnold as a prospect. Never mind the facts about to smack you all right in the face when Haskins does in fact go top 5-6, and I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong if he doesn’t, but yeah sure Haskins isn’t even close to darnold because you say so. Never mind what the pro scouts and GMs do. Never mind that for every Jeremiah there are ten others talkies and writers and former scouts saying Haskins is darnolds equal. No no we can’t have any QBs from this class better the exhalted class of 2018....

Darnold was better off script for sure and has that it factor as a QB.

But I love Haskins mental processing and precision throws. Haskins has just enough mobility to extend plays (not like Darnold though).

what the fuck is this supposed to mean?

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darnold by far Sonic Youth : 3/25/2019 5:45 pm : link : reply If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question

Watching college football tells one who is better? Just watching the game, or the two players play?

Because Haskins didn't play long, but when he did play, he was pretty damn impressive.

Seems like a throwaway line used because you really don't know how to explain your position, but a little condescending seems to go a long way!!

In the interview room with his mental processing, I'll be all for him at 6. Obviously that's the most important trait of a qb were not divvy too. He also has a build for a Rapelisbrghur type escapability. Now we need to get a pocket passer a true X receiver or two way TE, not get completely stymied by a soft cover 2.

Darnold looks like nothing special, and Haskins' game seems to be missing some important things.

Thankfully these aren't the only two choices.

In comment 14356881 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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what the fuck is this supposed to mean? Quote: darnold by far Sonic Youth : 3/25/2019 5:45 pm : link : reply If you watched college football consistently, this wouldn't be much of a question Watching college football tells one who is better? Just watching the game, or the two players play? Because Haskins didn't play long, but when he did play, he was pretty damn impressive. Seems like a throwaway line used because you really don't know how to explain your position, but a little condescending seems to go a long way!!

All you have to do is watch youtube, or play a game of Madden, to clearly see Darnold is better.

In comment 14356961 Coach Red Beaulieu said:

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In the interview room with his mental processing, I'll be all for him at 6. Obviously that's the most important trait of a qb were not divvy too. He also has a build for a Rapelisbrghur type escapability. Now we need to get a pocket passer a true X receiver or two way TE, not get completely stymied by a soft cover 2.

Yes, we're definitely not divvy to that.

etc.

I mean for people saying that Darnold is far and away better than Haskins... okay, so if you put Sam Darnold in that Ohio State offense last year, he would have thrown 70 TDs (compared to Haskins's 50 TDs)? What about the fact Haskins only threw 8 INTs? Darnold, the turnover machine, would have thrown fewer? It's not like Darnold didn't have great talent around him at USC, that's the thing I also don't understand. On his college tape you see passes way off target, terrible spiral, where receivers are adjusting and making incredible catches. It's not like he was playing for Duke, he was at USC for chrissakes, which is a program known for making QBs look way better than they actually are (Leinhart, Sanchez).

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with Darnold's ability to go through progressions quickly, avoid the rush, and make great plays on the run. He is a gamer and I think he'll be a solid starter. But this idea that he was a can't-miss prospect who was head and shoulders above any QBs from last year, this year, next year, whatever, just doesn't sound right to me based on everything I've seen from him.

Again I think as always these are 2 very different QBs and for both of them it's going to come down to the right situation. For instance, Darnold does have better mobility than Haskins and therefore Haskins may require a good o-line to be good (just as we've always said about Eli) but I think in the right situation I see no reason why Haskins couldn't have a more consistent, more efficient, and certainly even more productive NFL career than Sam Darnold.