Well the salad days are over and have been for 7 years. As we sink deeper into the abyss of horrible franchises, we clean out the house and bring back an old friend in Dave Gettleman. We hire a no nonsense former OL from the Midwest to shine that image back up. We trade away the golden god, and anyone else who wasn't team first in this organization's eyes. Gone are: Jerry Reese, Marc Ross, Ben Mcasomething, Damon Harrison, Eli Apple, Olivier Vernon, Davis Webb, Golden God, Landon Collins, Ereck Flowers, Bobby Hart, Justin Pugh and Weston Richburg. All players traded, cut or not re-signed since our GM took over.
Many hate it all, some really think it's the right thing, and we bicker and fight all the time now because our team is a joke league wide. Now it's time to declare your allegiance. Is it Pessimist or Optimist? What are you???? For the record I have optimism and I am excited to see us build.
I think QB has to be addressed - long term and that's a big piece (captain obvious?) whether it's this draft, next draft or a trade/FA.
If I can't find anything to look forward to or be optimistic about, what's the point, though? Sports should be enjoyable to follow. It's elective entertainment.
The day I don't enjoy anything about being a fan is the day I should stop watching.
I'm looking forward to seeing where we go from here.
It's always an active choice we make as fans whether we choose to acknowledge that or not.
Edge
OT
And pretty much defense from there on in, with strategic trade ups leveraging our draft capital, I'll get quite optimistic.
Are we going QB in 2019 or 2020? Right now the tea leaves seem like it is 2019. I really hope it is NOT Jones.
Younger, cheaper, healthier, with fewer attitude issues.
They have the draft picks and cap space to get more young talent in this draft and next offseason -- including the quarterback of the future.
I suspect this will be a rough year record wise -- but a big step forward in grooming talent.
That said, if you don't see how we just took a giant step forward this offseason, than I really don't know what to tell you.
Another great draft (I view the last draft as a success) and we will be much better off going forward.
Good to see you posting, buddy!
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There are still a lot of questions that need to be answered, and I have a tough time trying to figure out just what the plan is, but I'll never be in the "doom-and-gloom" camp...at least not in March.
Good to see you posting, buddy!
Thanks, arc. It's good to be back.
I see cause for despair because last year was a disaster in FA, and this year saw minimal action that would get one excited. a rebuild has to include FA, so if we blow this aspect, it's going to be subpar results.
Last year was year one of the rebuild. massively subpar, IMO. Aside from Barkley and Hernandez, did we really do anything to improve the team?
Maras continue to be too involved.
I guess put me down as wanna be optimistic, but am expecting pessimistic results.
Because otherwise, what's the point.
I'm uncautiously optimistic and do NOT need to know what the QB plan is...
I'm hopeful that the Giants see Defense and OLine as BPAs in the draft. That said, if they select a QB, I'll become an instant fan.
Go Giants!
regardless of the accuracy of the moniker~
We have a GM who clearly is winging it with this off-season "plan" in terms of personnel.
A HC who didn't have an impressive first year managing game situations. Someone who the jury is still out on.
A 38 year old QB who is being confused with fellow elder statesmen Brady and Brees.
As of now, no QB solution for the future.
And, this needs to be underscored, we are in a conference where two teams are clearly deeper in overall talent and with younger, better QBs.
I'll wait to see how the draft goes, because it's a critical piece, but as of now this is a resounding Pessimistic vote.
Defense wise, Much Better fits at Safety coverage wise. Maturing high draft picks in Carter and BJ Hill. Markus Golden will need to replace OVs production. But Edge Rush still needs to be further bolstered. JJ is one legit CB, Beal will need to show something and hopefully a draft pick at CB . If this D can just be average that will be a big jump from last year.
We have a GM who clearly is winging it with this off-season "plan" in terms of personnel.
A HC who didn't have an impressive first year managing game situations. Someone who the jury is still out on.
A 38 year old QB who is being confused with fellow elder statesmen Brady and Brees.
As of now, no QB solution for the future.
And, this needs to be underscored, we are in a conference where two teams are clearly deeper in overall talent and with younger, better QBs.
I'll wait to see how the draft goes, because it's a critical piece, but as of now this is a resounding Pessimistic vote.
And Shurmur's offense was a 1000% better than McAdoo's. And I'm just talking about the offense, I know PS did have the benefit of Saquon. But play design was better, blocking was better. Everything was better, and McAdoo still sucks.
Reason being, DG has vacillated between rebuild/win, and he has made several good moves and countered them with several bad ones, kinda like one step forward and one step back.....
But there is no doubt that he has to really hit on the draft, especially the 2 picks from the OBj trade.....
Let's face it, you are lucky if you hit on two players from the draft that become starters......he really needs more than that, and he has to hope that the guys he drafted after Hernandez act on their potential.....Carter and Hill....Mcintosh is a pipe dream....
With SB being the only real threat on offense, and OBj gone, defenses will naturally key on him.....and the OL is not fixed yet....a C and RT are needed, or SB will still be dodging defenders in the backfield before he gets started....
As for the defense, with no depth, a key injury or two, and the season is basically over...
So yes, we need a strong draft....we need to pluck a few guys from the final cuts that will help us....we need to avoid injuries......and Shurm has to be a much better coach than he was last season.....
If we don't get a QB this year, it's quite possible we could win 6-9 games this season, making it hard to get the QB we may want next year.....
So optimistic? Eh....
Pessimistic? the team had to be revamped.....we are going in that direction but not as fast as it should have.....
This team can very easily go either way, depending on how the cards are dealt.....I think I will sit on the fence for now....
Honestly believe that Rosen sets us back. We put a lot of eggs on him and he's gone in a year or two.
Honestly believe that passing on a QB until 202 lets us get our ducks in a row, obtain the best of possible QB's, and jumps starts us, without Eli but with what Eli's salary (and Jenkins et al) buys us.
So, how I feel is very dependent upon the choice DG makes in April.
That said, if you don't see how we just took a giant step forward this offseason, than I really don't know what to tell you.
You make that sound like it's so readily apparent, and I'm not sure why. In terms of the long-term, yeah, they project to have a ton of salary cap space, but in terms of on-field, the defense is a tear down. The ideal scenario is that all of last year's rookies play even better and the injured players they count as additions show they're 100% healthy, but player development isn't just a static upward line on a chart.
...you've over-simplified the Giants situation, as well as simplifying how one is supposed to feel about it.
Been a Giants fan a long time, and have been through several re-builds; almost re-builds; re-build false starts and outright re-build failures.
IMO, the only rational way to look at all of Gettleman's moves is to WAIT AND SEE. I've liked some of his moves and disliked others. But in the end, who the F knows?
Lastly, Sam Beal is a wild card. If he hits and stays healthy, could be huge for us. If he's a dud, we'll have another hole to fill.
Standing by 4-12 to 6-10 for next year until the team proves me wrong.
I kind of wish we could just skip 2019 and get to 2020, because I think thats where we're going to take a big leap forward.
1. Is Shurmur going to improve as a gameday coach? He was brutal on Sundays in 2018.
2. What is the approach going to be next offseason with all that cap space? Is it going to be a repeat of 2016 when we threw A+ money at B players? I hope it ends up being more like what we saw this year: conservative and avoiding the A level FA contracts.
I think next offseason is the big one for the direction of the franchise.
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That said, if you don't see how we just took a giant step forward this offseason, than I really don't know what to tell you.
You make that sound like it's so readily apparent, and I'm not sure why. In terms of the long-term, yeah, they project to have a ton of salary cap space, but in terms of on-field, the defense is a tear down. The ideal scenario is that all of last year's rookies play even better and the injured players they count as additions show they're 100% healthy, but player development isn't just a static upward line on a chart.
Because it is. We are in 100% better shape than we were this time last year. Got rid of bad eggs, brought in assets to use on draft day, freed up tons of cap, and seem to be building a better culture.
Is any of this untrue?
The O line is starting to actually look decent. We have three above average starters (I know some people don't like Solder, but I think he's good) for the first time in a long time and the offseason isn't finished yet.
Lastly, we have 12 draft picks and next year we're set to have over 50 mill in cap space. We'll be able to build up a young corps this year and add big to it next year in FA.
You have to like where we're at, especially considering where we've been recently.
Regardless, I am very optimistic in the direction we are headed and I still feel that Eli has a gift and has winning in his veins if he can just be protected. We lost a lot of very close games this past year that could've gone either way, but we simply had some bad luck (and luck is always a factor in close games).
I believe that if we can avoid the injury bug again and keep our studs on the playing field, and have a solid o-line - we will be in the playoffs. I'm excited to see where this team will go.
Mara.
He reeks of incompetence at the top. Let's just go back 2 years ago. He tries to blame Reese and McAdoo for the way the whole Eli benching was handled. But let's not pretend he was fully involved with that decision and then totally backtracked on it and tried to blame everyone else. If you ask me he's still backtracking on it and trying to make up for it because of the way it was handled and regrets about Simms. Every time Mara speaks I find myself thinking that this guy should just shut up.
Shurmur
Are we going to forget how he isn't a very good coach? How many games did his bad play calling or gross incompetence with managing the clock lose us last year? How many times did he basically just get bailed out by a superhuman RB? This team doesn't have more talent than other teams. And how many wins last year came against backup QBs? I don't think we have the right person in charge here. And that means we could very well be bringing in a new coach with new systems who will want to rebuild all over again with players to fit those systems in a couple years.
Gettleman
I will hold out judgement on him as it's too early. But I'm not a fan of his approach to things. The OBJ trade and not basically calling every single team to see what they would offer, not even answering the phone for trades when the Giants are on the clock, never trading down in his career in the draft. And while we are so happy to have all this cap space next year, did we really do a good job with our cap space last year? Outside of the draft last year, our offseason was pretty horrible no? From the stick with Eli approach, to signing horrible players to contracts more than they were worth? Everything is rosey now?
Personnel
We have no QB. Who knows when the next time it will be before we have a good QB. Some teams go through DECADES without finding a good QB.
So put me in the pessimist category.
And as my crazy but astute alcoholic uncle Greg told me once after a disappointing Giant's season, if they weren't any good with the previous players maybe they will be better with new players. Amen Uncle Greg.
I believe Eli can still play... don't get all the he is done crap
OL is almost complete... much better with Zeitler and a high Draft pick at RT
Feeling great about upcoming draft for defense...
This team will be better than the pessimists believe.
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In comment 14355924 UConn4523 said:
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That said, if you don't see how we just took a giant step forward this offseason, than I really don't know what to tell you.
You make that sound like it's so readily apparent, and I'm not sure why. In terms of the long-term, yeah, they project to have a ton of salary cap space, but in terms of on-field, the defense is a tear down. The ideal scenario is that all of last year's rookies play even better and the injured players they count as additions show they're 100% healthy, but player development isn't just a static upward line on a chart.
Because it is. We are in 100% better shape than we were this time last year. Got rid of bad eggs, brought in assets to use on draft day, freed up tons of cap, and seem to be building a better culture.
Is any of this untrue?
The freed up tons of cap in 2020, not this year. They have the potential to get better. It's all wishful thinking.
They were a bottom 5 defense last year sticking with that side of the ball, 27th in sacks. How are they better? They played worse as a defense after "getting rid of bad eggs". They brought in one young safety, one old safety, and lost a bunch of role players who played a lot of snaps.
I'd be happy to be hopeful if I could nail down one thing they got better at on defense. For all the talk about having a safety that might be able to cover, if they don't have a pass rush, it won't amount to much.
All of these discussions circle back to the QB because it is unavoidable. It is a question that is clearly rattling the Giants org because we've seen defensive comments from DG, Mara, and a few asshats.
They feel a strong conviction that a couple of good offensive performances in the 2nd half are going to carry over into next season. I disagree strongly, but would feel better if they had a contingency in place in case that plan failed, even if it was a longshot prospect like Stidham or Finley. The Jets and Browns found their QBs of the future even immediately after expending previous high picks on QBs (Kizer, Hackenberg), so the Giants can take that risk.
If they start 2-7, however, I don't want to hear any BS about how whatever QB they took "isn't ready" like Lauletta last year.
regardless of the accuracy of the moniker~
Ah, yes. What year was that when the “Optimist or Realist?” debate was raging?
All of these discussions circle back to the QB because it is unavoidable. It is a question that is clearly rattling the Giants org because we've seen defensive comments from DG, Mara, and a few asshats.
I did see that article yesterday in the Star Ledger. Mara comes across as very defensive, and contradictory with some of his conclusions.