Mike Shula at Duke's Pro Day Today (Daniel Jones)

In comment 14357006 Jay on the Island said:

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Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength.

It’s not about the physical stuff with Lock, though I don’t think anyone loves him having smaller hands when he’ll be playing in some real cold weather games at MetLife and in Philly, for example. That’s where the bigger hands come into play.

Rather, it’s more mental. He takes a long time to read the field and go through his progressions. 4 year starter or not - and he only played one year in a pro style offense - he looked very slow in making reads when I watched him. He also didn’t seem to be able to get his team into hurry up mode well, possibly because he was still learning the offense. Basically, there was something missing.

Guys can have all the physical talent in the world. But none of it will matter without the ability to read the field at an NFL caliber level.

Regardless of what you think of Haskins, I saw a guy who read the field very well. He manipulated safeties with his eyes. He worked through progressions. And all this as a first year starter. I know the naysayers are going to say he had more time to do that stuff, but Haskins was elite, IMO.

has a higher ceiling than any other QB. But he also has a lower floor.

Don't have a sense on Jones yet. No Rosen.

In comment 14356938 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 14356933 JonC said: Quote: over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film. What round, iyo, Jon?

I rather hear that than Grier or Jones.

fairly late. Stidham or what's his name, the giant (in stature not team) one.

we're still four weeks from the draft, they're still evaluating the prospects.

In comment 14357006 Jay on the Island said:

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Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength.

So his ball goes through a car wash and actually gets a little wet...? ; )

I share your description. Lock has wonderful tools. But his mindset/decision making is a concern. Plus, he can get real tangled-up with his footwork and not trust the integrity of his pocket. But he will get away with it because of that gifted arm.

I do like him. But, like every other QB this year, just not at #6.

In comment 14357031 Bill L said:

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fairly late. Stidham or what's his name, the giant (in stature not team) one.

Been there done that mid-round QBs. If they want a franchise QB, then invest the high pick to get one.

...

In comment 14357021 Giants38 said:

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In comment 14357006 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength. It’s not about the physical stuff with Lock, though I don’t think anyone loves him having smaller hands when he’ll be playing in some real cold weather games at MetLife and in Philly, for example. That’s where the bigger hands come into play. Rather, it’s more mental. He takes a long time to read the field and go through his progressions. 4 year starter or not - and he only played one year in a pro style offense - he looked very slow in making reads when I watched him. He also didn’t seem to be able to get his team into hurry up mode well, possibly because he was still learning the offense. Basically, there was something missing. Guys can have all the physical talent in the world. But none of it will matter without the ability to read the field at an NFL caliber level. Regardless of what you think of Haskins, I saw a guy who read the field very well. He manipulated safeties with his eyes. He worked through progressions. And all this as a first year starter. I know the naysayers are going to say he had more time to do that stuff, but Haskins was elite, IMO.

In my earlier post I mentioned that I would rather have Haskins than Lock but Lock's upside is exciting. If the Giants pick him then they obviously are convinced that his flaws can be worked out. IMO the top 5 will be some combination of Murray, Q Williams, Bosa, Allen, Devin White. That basically leaves the Giants choices between Haskins, Lock, Oliver, Sweat, Burns, Taylor. If those are the choices then I hope they do go with one of the two QB's.

In comment 14357011 Pan-handler said:

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In comment 14356933 JonC said: Quote: over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film. Lock has characteristics that better fit the ideal QB that Shurmur would want. But Haskins has shown even in one year more consistency play to play than Lock ever did. Lock is the higher boom bust guy.

But if the Giants are right and can get his accuracy and consistency play to play improved he can be even better than Dwayne.

In comment 14357034 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14357006 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength. So his ball goes through a car wash and actually gets a little wet...? ; ) I share your description. Lock has wonderful tools. But his mindset/decision making is a concern. Plus, he can get real tangled-up with his footwork and not trust the integrity of his pocket. But he will get away with it because of that gifted arm. I do like him. But, like every other QB this year, just not at #6.

I'm not concerned with footwork as that can be fixed over time especially while he is sitting behind Eli. It's the mental concerns that worry me which is why I prefer Haskins. If it came down to talent alone then Lock is the #1 pick in the draft.

In comment 14357035 GFAN52 said:

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In comment 14357031 Bill L said: Quote: fairly late. Stidham or what's his name, the giant (in stature not team) one. Been there done that mid-round QBs. If they want a franchise QB, then invest the high pick to get one.

I do it every single year, no matter who is my starter. Even if I'm drafting another one at the top. ALthough this year, I'm not drafting one at the top under any circumstances.

but 17 is probably too late.

IF it's Lock they want, does Gettleman:

1) Pick Lock only if he's there at 17 (not worth 6 overall)
2) Trade up from 17 IF it isn't too expensive
3) Trade back from 6 IF he gets good value
4) Pick Lock at 6 using the "don't get cute" mindset
5) Trade up from 6 thinking "if you're sure" go get him

My guess is IF it's Lock, it will be 2) of 5)

Hopefully, he'll at least wait for any trade ups from 6 to make sure one of Bosa, Q Williams or J Allen doesn't drop to them at 6.

A month before last years draft it was reported that the Browns were torn between Darnold and Josh Allen with the #1 pick. It wasn't until a week before the draft that it was leaked that Mayfield was the likely choice.

In comment 14357047 Trainmaster said:

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but 17 is probably too late. IF it's Lock they want, does Gettleman: 1) Pick Lock only if he's there at 17 (not worth 6 overall) 2) Trade up from 17 IF it isn't too expensive 3) Trade back from 6 IF he gets good value 4) Pick Lock at 6 using the "don't get cute" mindset 5) Trade up from 6 thinking "if you're sure" go get him My guess is IF it's Lock, it will be 2) of 5) Hopefully, he'll at least wait for any trade ups from 6 to make sure one of Bosa, Q Williams or J Allen doesn't drop to them at 6.

It's been reported that Elway loves Lock so he will more than likely be the pick at 10. IF the Giants do like Lock then they need to take him at 6. They should also begin to leak out how much they love Haskins to deter Denver from trading up in front of them to get Lock.

"Player Comparison: Jay Cutler. Team sources have said that Lock has the skill set of Cutler with the personality of Eli Manning. As a player, Lock is very similar to Cutler. Both are gunslinger quarterbacks with a cannon for a right arm. They also have a swagger to them in their style of play. Cutler and Lock also shared some decision-making flaws from the big-arm syndrome, leading them to trusting their arm too much and throwing into coverage. Cutler was a top-20 pick, and Lock should also go as the top-20 selection this year.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019dlock.php#78boy9vyzSCmsGCa.99 "

If they go QB, they will probably have to grab him at 6. He won't last till 17.

We then have the choice of either Bosa, Williams or Allen. Not a bad option either.

I hope they go defense at 6, trade our 3rd this year and 2nd next year to go get Lock, and then OL at 37

In comment 14357038 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14357021 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14357006 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength. It’s not about the physical stuff with Lock, though I don’t think anyone loves him having smaller hands when he’ll be playing in some real cold weather games at MetLife and in Philly, for example. That’s where the bigger hands come into play. Rather, it’s more mental. He takes a long time to read the field and go through his progressions. 4 year starter or not - and he only played one year in a pro style offense - he looked very slow in making reads when I watched him. He also didn’t seem to be able to get his team into hurry up mode well, possibly because he was still learning the offense. Basically, there was something missing. Guys can have all the physical talent in the world. But none of it will matter without the ability to read the field at an NFL caliber level. Regardless of what you think of Haskins, I saw a guy who read the field very well. He manipulated safeties with his eyes. He worked through progressions. And all this as a first year starter. I know the naysayers are going to say he had more time to do that stuff, but Haskins was elite, IMO. In my earlier post I mentioned that I would rather have Haskins than Lock but Lock's upside is exciting. If the Giants pick him then they obviously are convinced that his flaws can be worked out. IMO the top 5 will be some combination of Murray, Q Williams, Bosa, Allen, Devin White. That basically leaves the Giants choices between Haskins, Lock, Oliver, Sweat, Burns, Taylor. If those are the choices then I hope they do go with one of the two QB's.

If the above rankings are true: I wonder if Lock goes in the top 5 and Haskins is there but one of Bosa,QWill or Allen drops...if we would go Haskins.

If you read Shurmur’s description of what he prefers in a QB’s skill set, Haskins is very likely out. He’s not athletic enough or fast enough at the next level. Which his 5.05 forty at the Combine proved.

I think Lock ran a 4.7, btw.

Shurmur wants a QB who can improvise; and make plays outside the pocket or pick up a few critical yards with his legs. I think he views the traditional pocket QB as ancient.

Unfortunately, Shurmur’s criteria will likely keep Jones on the board, too...

In comment 14357048 Jay on the Island said:

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A month before last years draft it was reported that the Browns were torn between Darnold and Josh Allen with the #1 pick. It wasn't until a week before the draft that it was leaked that Mayfield was the likely choice.

Darnold and hi family thought he was going to the Browns on draft day.

at #6 and will worry about QB after that pick is made.

The talking heads mention the Giants several time.

Additionally, Josina Anderson, who seems to have some sources in NY based on stuff in the past talks about how the Giants like Lock. Other guys on the video make similar case that he's a good fit for the Giants too.

So, between her, Schrager and now our own JonC, I guess it's safe to say that they really do like Lock.


These folks mention Lock and Giants a lot and it's a pretty impressive Pro Day - ( New Window )

In comment 14357063 JonC said:

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In comment 14357048 Jay on the Island said: Quote: A month before last years draft it was reported that the Browns were torn between Darnold and Josh Allen with the #1 pick. It wasn't until a week before the draft that it was leaked that Mayfield was the likely choice. Darnold and hi family thought he was going to the Browns on draft day.

Where would you put Kyler?

.

But if they go that way I'd be glad if it's Lock instead of Haskins.

In comment 14357011 Pan-handler said:

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In comment 14356933 JonC said: Quote: over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film. Lock has characteristics that better fit the ideal QB that Shurmur would want. But Haskins has shown even in one year more consistency play to play than Lock ever did. Lock is the higher boom bust guy.

You realize lock had 44 tds last year which is a record, in a tougher conference? I wouldn't mind even a poor mans maholmes at this point. But if you remember correctly, maholmes was originally graded a 2nd rounder.

what's your opinion on Lock the player?

it seemed like he didn't process the field well, seemed to settle on checkdowns too often, etc. From what I gather now, some of it's being reported by scouts too, as well as the lack of talent he had around him.

He's got the physical talent and stature, just don't know about the mental part or how far into it Shurmur and the team can drill into it. Scary pick, would agree big boom or bust potential.

There will definitely be one or two of the top 4 QB's here at #17 (including Grier into the mix). So the question is do you draft a DE/LB at #6 (the strength of the draft), which we need desperately, and roll the dice the QB we like will be there?

You alluded to top edge rushers probably gone
by 6.

Any info on if Giants are interested in Oliver at 6?

my buddy who has ties to the Mizzou program and the NFL and he had this to offer on Lock w/ the Giants.

"He improved a ton late in the year, has thrown well at the senior bowl and combine and pro day, don’t love his pocket presence. Arm is incredible. Not sure Giants are the best fit unless Shurmer is willing to keep evolving. Need to run a lot more RPO’s and spread concepts to hide his suspect pocket awareness. Haskins is a better fit stylistically to me, much better in the pocket but Lock has the better arm talent. If you get a chance watch his Oklahoma St Bowl game on YouTube, I'm sure they have it. They lost but it was his best game by far. I see him as a Jared Goff type, in the right system with some of the thinking taken out he can shine. In the wrong system he can be exposed in a hurry. Great athlete BTW, he can move. It took him a while to settle into Dooley's (new offensive coordinator at Mizzou) offense as well. Think its going to make him better prepared for the next level though cuz Heupal's offense was so remedial the year before."

Or at the very least, he's had the benefit of being able to work with a very accomplished QB-focused coach with a long history of both developing young quarterbacks and working with reclamation project vets and getting the most from them.

If you draft a guy with a ton of arm talent but real questions about whether he can process information/make his reads fast enough to compete at this level, you'd better be sure that stuff is just being overstated.

I don't think that stuff is teachable.

I could envision a scenario much where the Giants are much more content with Lock than Haskins. He has a lot of experience and made his team better his senior year.

In comment 14357161 Steve in Greenwich said:

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my buddy who has ties to the Mizzou program and the NFL and he had this to offer on Lock w/ the Giants. "He improved a ton late in the year, has thrown well at the senior bowl and combine and pro day, don’t love his pocket presence. Arm is incredible. Not sure Giants are the best fit unless Shurmer is willing to keep evolving. Need to run a lot more RPO’s and spread concepts to hide his suspect pocket awareness. Haskins is a better fit stylistically to me, much better in the pocket but Lock has the better arm talent. If you get a chance watch his Oklahoma St Bowl game on YouTube, I'm sure they have it. They lost but it was his best game by far. I see him as a Jared Goff type, in the right system with some of the thinking taken out he can shine. In the wrong system he can be exposed in a hurry. Great athlete BTW, he can move. It took him a while to settle into Dooley's (new offensive coordinator at Mizzou) offense as well. Think its going to make him better prepared for the next level though cuz Heupal's offense was so remedial the year before."

Lock was actually D1 basketball material. But opted to focus 100% on football. So right there is the athleticism.

Lock's best game wasn't the Oak St game. It was his last four games in the SEC - at FL, Vandy, at Tenn, and Ark. He was sensational down the stretch.

In comment 14357180 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14357161 Steve in Greenwich said: Quote: my buddy who has ties to the Mizzou program and the NFL and he had this to offer on Lock w/ the Giants. "He improved a ton late in the year, has thrown well at the senior bowl and combine and pro day, don’t love his pocket presence. Arm is incredible. Not sure Giants are the best fit unless Shurmer is willing to keep evolving. Need to run a lot more RPO’s and spread concepts to hide his suspect pocket awareness. Haskins is a better fit stylistically to me, much better in the pocket but Lock has the better arm talent. If you get a chance watch his Oklahoma St Bowl game on YouTube, I'm sure they have it. They lost but it was his best game by far. I see him as a Jared Goff type, in the right system with some of the thinking taken out he can shine. In the wrong system he can be exposed in a hurry. Great athlete BTW, he can move. It took him a while to settle into Dooley's (new offensive coordinator at Mizzou) offense as well. Think its going to make him better prepared for the next level though cuz Heupal's offense was so remedial the year before." Lock was actually D1 basketball material. But opted to focus 100% on football. So right there is the athleticism. Lock's best game wasn't the Oak St game. It was his last four games in the SEC - at FL, Vandy, at Tenn, and Ark. He was sensational down the stretch.

Which I believe had to do with his time getting comfortable in a pro style system and reading defenses. I think he can continue to develop into something special under the right guidance. Whether Shurmur is that guidance...

In comment 14357002 JonC said:

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In comment 14356981 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 14356964 JonC said: Quote: they'll probably need to pick him at #6. Their top edge players are probably gone by #6 anyway. Still haven't heard anything about the QBs? I just shared it.

I see it too. Actually, I'd be quite happy with it. He's a Shurmur guy.

In comment 14357238 lax counsel said:

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Which I believe had to do with his time getting comfortable in a pro style system and reading defenses. I think he can continue to develop into something special under the right guidance. Whether Shurmur is that guidance...

Derek Dooley has basically said that.

No info on Oliver yet. If I were making a wager, I don't think they pick a 3-4 end at #6 overall. He's more of a 4-3 DT, imv.

In comment 14357147 jayg5 said:

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You alluded to top edge rushers probably gone by 6. Any info on if Giants are interested in Oliver at 6?

I read a few scouting reports that said if Oliver were to play in a 3-4 scheme that his best position would be at the 3. That's the spot BJ Hill plays, which is why I don't think they'd have a ton of interest in Oliver.

Shurmur not attending Lock's pro day and sending Shula instead?

Shurmur not attending Lock's pro day and sending Shula instead?

In comment 14356918 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 14356911 Chris684 said: Quote: I thought that was in FL and just for owners. Thanks. They rotate locations from year to year. All owners/GMs/HCs are there.

Seems like poor planning for schools to hold their pro day at the same time as the league meetings.

In comment 14357573 Gjfro said:

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Shurmur not attending Lock's pro day and sending Shula instead?

Good question, maybe Shurmur saw enough of him at the Senior Bowl practices and the Combine. Where Grier from reports had a so so Senior Bowl week.

In comment 14357065 TMS said:

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at #6 and will worry about QB after that pick is made.

"Think" and "hope" are two different things, despite the fact that you seem to be confusing them.

In comment 14357026 JonC said:

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Don't have a sense on Jones yet. No Rosen.

Stop breaking my heart Jon. Rosen is better than all of them. I hope the Cards don't deal him, it will be crushing to see him go somewhere for peanuts and we draft an inferior prospect with high draft capital because of a hat.

Watching Lock at the Senior Bowl. By the time the draft rolls around, they will have a good handle on these guys and what they want to do.

and needed in our stadium in the winter months. We have to get him a deep threat (like OBJ) but they are out there. Keep him accurate and get him a TE who gets separation it could work . Kid is a hard nosed athlete who could learn a lot from ELI. Not at #6 though, Thats got to be blue chip defense. Still think Jones is in the mix at #17. MO

He also has footwork and technical issues that should be 'coachable'. The comparably lower completion percentage to the players he's battling for Draft position is concerning. The thing we don't know is how he'll do when they test his football IQ. I like him as a QB prospect but not at #6 overall. My comp for him is Bledsoe, who despite going to a Superbowl, underperformed his Draft placement imo.