Art Stapleton
& #8207;Verified account @art_stapleton
10m10 minutes ago
#NYGiants offensive coordinator Mike Shula expected at Duke's Pro Day this afternoon to watch QB Daniel Jones.
Meanwhile, HC Pat Shurmur will be at a breakfast table in Arizona, which I'm sure is the last place he wants to be with the pre-draft evaluation ongoing.
There are league meetings going on in AZ - All of the owners & Coaches are there.
Some type of league function?
Thanks.
When a guy likes a green chile breakfast burrito he goes and gets a green chile burrito!
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Meanwhile, HC Pat Shurmur will be at a breakfast table in Arizona, which I'm sure is the last place he wants to be with the pre-draft evaluation ongoing.
When a guy likes a green chile breakfast burrito he goes and gets a green chile burrito!
Or a chocolate square cake at Amalie’s
Thanks.
They rotate locations from year to year. All owners/GMs/HCs are there.
You'd figure Duke would be smart enough to look at the league schedule before deciding on when to hold a pro day.
I could definitely see why teams would be more interested in Lock then Haskins. Does Schrager have any idea though? Has he ever broken news? Serious question.
What round, iyo, Jon?
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over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film.
What round, iyo, Jon?
First.
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over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film.
What round, iyo, Jon?
Lock is not getting out of the first. I’d be willing to bet he won’t make it past 15
Just curious, why you don't want Lock?
Lock isn't falling to 17. He most likely won't get past the Broncos at 10. NFL teams are higher on him then the draft media is.
Lock isn't falling to 17. He most likely won't get past the Broncos at 10. NFL teams are higher on him then the draft media is.
In that case, just take him at 6
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Lock isn't falling to 17. He most likely won't get past the Broncos at 10. NFL teams are higher on him then the draft media is.
In that case, just take him at 6
Yeah they should. It's better to get your QB and if you want a defensive player move up for him.
I like Lock a lot. His ceiling is really high. Like Mahomes/Rodgers type ceiling. Not sure he ever gets there. Similar style player. Haskins is a safer choice. So it just depends do you want the boom/bust guy who could possibly be a top 3 QB or do you want a high floor low ceiling who probably never makes it into that top 3-4 category?
But, the fact that he loves Lock would make me think twice about taking him, lol
Still haven't heard anything about the QBs?
You think they're picking 12 players from this draft?
Agree, plus if they are willing to take Haskins or Lock, really good chance one of them is there at 6, maybe both
You think they're picking 12 players from this draft?
I don't think it's a stretch of reality to suggest that there are 12 roster spots available. It's not like this roster is so good that they don't have the space for it. And it's not like they're in a situation where they don't have time to deal with rookie mistakes and growing pains.
Shula went to see Lock and Shurmur went to see Grier on their pro days read into that what you will .
But, the fact that he loves Lock would make me think twice about taking him, lol
I hate to think that we may have to trade up with the Jets to get Lock. Elway loves Lock, and it wouldn't surprise me if they try to trade up ahead of us. I don't expect Elway to sit and wait for Lock to fall to him.
This isn't a "black or white" situation to say the least...lots of variables and, depending on the board at the time and the player involved, an argument can be made either way obviously.
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they'll probably need to pick him at #6. Their top edge players are probably gone by #6 anyway.
Still haven't heard anything about the QBs?
I just shared it.
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You think they're picking 12 players from this draft?
I don't think it's a stretch of reality to suggest that there are 12 roster spots available. It's not like this roster is so good that they don't have the space for it. And it's not like they're in a situation where they don't have time to deal with rookie mistakes and growing pains.
Sure. That could be an approach, I suppose. But I find it hard to square with what we've heard from Gettleman about winning while we rebuild and also his notorious confidence level in his own drafting skills. To me, he's gonna see a guy he likes and move up to get him. He's not a trade back guy. He's a "I'm a genius and see that dude is a stud and I'm gonna get him now" guy.
Additionally, if they really intend to get a QB then all those picks are available to get the next ten+ year starter.
So while I think they *could* draft players with all those picks. I'll be shocked if they actually do.
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In comment 14356964 JonC said:
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they'll probably need to pick him at #6. Their top edge players are probably gone by #6 anyway.
Still haven't heard anything about the QBs?
I just shared it.
Jon, so are you saying NYG likes Lock the best of the QB's? I am good with that as I like Lock a little more than Haskins and almost as much as trading for Rosen.
Lock has characteristics that better fit the ideal QB that Shurmur would want. But Haskins has shown even in one year more consistency play to play than Lock ever did.
Lock is the higher boom bust guy.
It’s not about the physical stuff with Lock, though I don’t think anyone loves him having smaller hands when he’ll be playing in some real cold weather games at MetLife and in Philly, for example. That’s where the bigger hands come into play.
Rather, it’s more mental. He takes a long time to read the field and go through his progressions. 4 year starter or not - and he only played one year in a pro style offense - he looked very slow in making reads when I watched him. He also didn’t seem to be able to get his team into hurry up mode well, possibly because he was still learning the offense. Basically, there was something missing.
Guys can have all the physical talent in the world. But none of it will matter without the ability to read the field at an NFL caliber level.
Regardless of what you think of Haskins, I saw a guy who read the field very well. He manipulated safeties with his eyes. He worked through progressions. And all this as a first year starter. I know the naysayers are going to say he had more time to do that stuff, but Haskins was elite, IMO.
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over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film.
What round, iyo, Jon?
I rather hear that than Grier or Jones.
So his ball goes through a car wash and actually gets a little wet...? ; )
I share your description. Lock has wonderful tools. But his mindset/decision making is a concern. Plus, he can get real tangled-up with his footwork and not trust the integrity of his pocket. But he will get away with it because of that gifted arm.
I do like him. But, like every other QB this year, just not at #6.
Been there done that mid-round QBs. If they want a franchise QB, then invest the high pick to get one.
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Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength.
It’s not about the physical stuff with Lock, though I don’t think anyone loves him having smaller hands when he’ll be playing in some real cold weather games at MetLife and in Philly, for example. That’s where the bigger hands come into play.
Rather, it’s more mental. He takes a long time to read the field and go through his progressions. 4 year starter or not - and he only played one year in a pro style offense - he looked very slow in making reads when I watched him. He also didn’t seem to be able to get his team into hurry up mode well, possibly because he was still learning the offense. Basically, there was something missing.
Guys can have all the physical talent in the world. But none of it will matter without the ability to read the field at an NFL caliber level.
Regardless of what you think of Haskins, I saw a guy who read the field very well. He manipulated safeties with his eyes. He worked through progressions. And all this as a first year starter. I know the naysayers are going to say he had more time to do that stuff, but Haskins was elite, IMO.
In my earlier post I mentioned that I would rather have Haskins than Lock but Lock's upside is exciting. If the Giants pick him then they obviously are convinced that his flaws can be worked out. IMO the top 5 will be some combination of Murray, Q Williams, Bosa, Allen, Devin White. That basically leaves the Giants choices between Haskins, Lock, Oliver, Sweat, Burns, Taylor. If those are the choices then I hope they do go with one of the two QB's.
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over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film.
Lock has characteristics that better fit the ideal QB that Shurmur would want. But Haskins has shown even in one year more consistency play to play than Lock ever did.
Lock is the higher boom bust guy.
But if the Giants are right and can get his accuracy and consistency play to play improved he can be even better than Dwayne.
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Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength.
So his ball goes through a car wash and actually gets a little wet...? ; )
I share your description. Lock has wonderful tools. But his mindset/decision making is a concern. Plus, he can get real tangled-up with his footwork and not trust the integrity of his pocket. But he will get away with it because of that gifted arm.
I do like him. But, like every other QB this year, just not at #6.
I'm not concerned with footwork as that can be fixed over time especially while he is sitting behind Eli. It's the mental concerns that worry me which is why I prefer Haskins. If it came down to talent alone then Lock is the #1 pick in the draft.
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fairly late. Stidham or what's his name, the giant (in stature not team) one.
Been there done that mid-round QBs. If they want a franchise QB, then invest the high pick to get one.
I do it every single year, no matter who is my starter. Even if I'm drafting another one at the top. ALthough this year, I'm not drafting one at the top under any circumstances.
IF it's Lock they want, does Gettleman:
1) Pick Lock only if he's there at 17 (not worth 6 overall)
2) Trade up from 17 IF it isn't too expensive
3) Trade back from 6 IF he gets good value
4) Pick Lock at 6 using the "don't get cute" mindset
5) Trade up from 6 thinking "if you're sure" go get him
My guess is IF it's Lock, it will be 2) of 5)
Hopefully, he'll at least wait for any trade ups from 6 to make sure one of Bosa, Q Williams or J Allen doesn't drop to them at 6.
IF it's Lock they want, does Gettleman:
1) Pick Lock only if he's there at 17 (not worth 6 overall)
2) Trade up from 17 IF it isn't too expensive
3) Trade back from 6 IF he gets good value
4) Pick Lock at 6 using the "don't get cute" mindset
5) Trade up from 6 thinking "if you're sure" go get him
My guess is IF it's Lock, it will be 2) of 5)
Hopefully, he'll at least wait for any trade ups from 6 to make sure one of Bosa, Q Williams or J Allen doesn't drop to them at 6.
It's been reported that Elway loves Lock so he will more than likely be the pick at 10. IF the Giants do like Lock then they need to take him at 6. They should also begin to leak out how much they love Haskins to deter Denver from trading up in front of them to get Lock.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019dlock.php#78boy9vyzSCmsGCa.99 "
If they go QB, they will probably have to grab him at 6. He won't last till 17.
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In comment 14357006 Jay on the Island said:
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Talent wise he is the best QB in the draft. He’s a special talent but I am a little worried about him between the ears. He’s like a more accurate Josh Allen with a little less arm strength.
It’s not about the physical stuff with Lock, though I don’t think anyone loves him having smaller hands when he’ll be playing in some real cold weather games at MetLife and in Philly, for example. That’s where the bigger hands come into play.
Rather, it’s more mental. He takes a long time to read the field and go through his progressions. 4 year starter or not - and he only played one year in a pro style offense - he looked very slow in making reads when I watched him. He also didn’t seem to be able to get his team into hurry up mode well, possibly because he was still learning the offense. Basically, there was something missing.
Guys can have all the physical talent in the world. But none of it will matter without the ability to read the field at an NFL caliber level.
Regardless of what you think of Haskins, I saw a guy who read the field very well. He manipulated safeties with his eyes. He worked through progressions. And all this as a first year starter. I know the naysayers are going to say he had more time to do that stuff, but Haskins was elite, IMO.
In my earlier post I mentioned that I would rather have Haskins than Lock but Lock's upside is exciting. If the Giants pick him then they obviously are convinced that his flaws can be worked out. IMO the top 5 will be some combination of Murray, Q Williams, Bosa, Allen, Devin White. That basically leaves the Giants choices between Haskins, Lock, Oliver, Sweat, Burns, Taylor. If those are the choices then I hope they do go with one of the two QB's.
If the above rankings are true: I wonder if Lock goes in the top 5 and Haskins is there but one of Bosa,QWill or Allen drops...if we would go Haskins.
I think Lock ran a 4.7, btw.
Shurmur wants a QB who can improvise; and make plays outside the pocket or pick up a few critical yards with his legs. I think he views the traditional pocket QB as ancient.
Unfortunately, Shurmur’s criteria will likely keep Jones on the board, too...
Darnold and hi family thought he was going to the Browns on draft day.
Additionally, Josina Anderson, who seems to have some sources in NY based on stuff in the past talks about how the Giants like Lock. Other guys on the video make similar case that he's a good fit for the Giants too.
So, between her, Schrager and now our own JonC, I guess it's safe to say that they really do like Lock.
These folks mention Lock and Giants a lot and it's a pretty impressive Pro Day - ( New Window )
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A month before last years draft it was reported that the Browns were torn between Darnold and Josh Allen with the #1 pick. It wasn't until a week before the draft that it was leaked that Mayfield was the likely choice.
Darnold and hi family thought he was going to the Browns on draft day.
Where would you put Kyler?
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over Haskins is out there, more upside, more demonstrated on his college film.
Lock has characteristics that better fit the ideal QB that Shurmur would want. But Haskins has shown even in one year more consistency play to play than Lock ever did.
Lock is the higher boom bust guy.
You realize lock had 44 tds last year which is a record, in a tougher conference? I wouldn't mind even a poor mans maholmes at this point. But if you remember correctly, maholmes was originally graded a 2nd rounder.
He's got the physical talent and stature, just don't know about the mental part or how far into it Shurmur and the team can drill into it. Scary pick, would agree big boom or bust potential.
by 6.
Any info on if Giants are interested in Oliver at 6?
"He improved a ton late in the year, has thrown well at the senior bowl and combine and pro day, don’t love his pocket presence. Arm is incredible. Not sure Giants are the best fit unless Shurmer is willing to keep evolving. Need to run a lot more RPO’s and spread concepts to hide his suspect pocket awareness. Haskins is a better fit stylistically to me, much better in the pocket but Lock has the better arm talent. If you get a chance watch his Oklahoma St Bowl game on YouTube, I'm sure they have it. They lost but it was his best game by far. I see him as a Jared Goff type, in the right system with some of the thinking taken out he can shine. In the wrong system he can be exposed in a hurry. Great athlete BTW, he can move. It took him a while to settle into Dooley's (new offensive coordinator at Mizzou) offense as well. Think its going to make him better prepared for the next level though cuz Heupal's offense was so remedial the year before."
If you draft a guy with a ton of arm talent but real questions about whether he can process information/make his reads fast enough to compete at this level, you'd better be sure that stuff is just being overstated.
I don't think that stuff is teachable.
"He improved a ton late in the year, has thrown well at the senior bowl and combine and pro day, don’t love his pocket presence. Arm is incredible. Not sure Giants are the best fit unless Shurmer is willing to keep evolving. Need to run a lot more RPO’s and spread concepts to hide his suspect pocket awareness. Haskins is a better fit stylistically to me, much better in the pocket but Lock has the better arm talent. If you get a chance watch his Oklahoma St Bowl game on YouTube, I'm sure they have it. They lost but it was his best game by far. I see him as a Jared Goff type, in the right system with some of the thinking taken out he can shine. In the wrong system he can be exposed in a hurry. Great athlete BTW, he can move. It took him a while to settle into Dooley's (new offensive coordinator at Mizzou) offense as well. Think its going to make him better prepared for the next level though cuz Heupal's offense was so remedial the year before."
Lock was actually D1 basketball material. But opted to focus 100% on football. So right there is the athleticism.
Lock's best game wasn't the Oak St game. It was his last four games in the SEC - at FL, Vandy, at Tenn, and Ark. He was sensational down the stretch.
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my buddy who has ties to the Mizzou program and the NFL and he had this to offer on Lock w/ the Giants.
"He improved a ton late in the year, has thrown well at the senior bowl and combine and pro day, don’t love his pocket presence. Arm is incredible. Not sure Giants are the best fit unless Shurmer is willing to keep evolving. Need to run a lot more RPO’s and spread concepts to hide his suspect pocket awareness. Haskins is a better fit stylistically to me, much better in the pocket but Lock has the better arm talent. If you get a chance watch his Oklahoma St Bowl game on YouTube, I'm sure they have it. They lost but it was his best game by far. I see him as a Jared Goff type, in the right system with some of the thinking taken out he can shine. In the wrong system he can be exposed in a hurry. Great athlete BTW, he can move. It took him a while to settle into Dooley's (new offensive coordinator at Mizzou) offense as well. Think its going to make him better prepared for the next level though cuz Heupal's offense was so remedial the year before."
Lock was actually D1 basketball material. But opted to focus 100% on football. So right there is the athleticism.
Lock's best game wasn't the Oak St game. It was his last four games in the SEC - at FL, Vandy, at Tenn, and Ark. He was sensational down the stretch.
Which I believe had to do with his time getting comfortable in a pro style system and reading defenses. I think he can continue to develop into something special under the right guidance. Whether Shurmur is that guidance...
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In comment 14356964 JonC said:
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they'll probably need to pick him at #6. Their top edge players are probably gone by #6 anyway.
Still haven't heard anything about the QBs?
I just shared it.
Which I believe had to do with his time getting comfortable in a pro style system and reading defenses. I think he can continue to develop into something special under the right guidance. Whether Shurmur is that guidance...
Derek Dooley has basically said that.
by 6.
Any info on if Giants are interested in Oliver at 6?
I read a few scouting reports that said if Oliver were to play in a 3-4 scheme that his best position would be at the 3. That's the spot BJ Hill plays, which is why I don't think they'd have a ton of interest in Oliver.
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I thought that was in FL and just for owners.
Thanks.
They rotate locations from year to year. All owners/GMs/HCs are there.
Seems like poor planning for schools to hold their pro day at the same time as the league meetings.
Good question, maybe Shurmur saw enough of him at the Senior Bowl practices and the Combine. Where Grier from reports had a so so Senior Bowl week.
"Think" and "hope" are two different things, despite the fact that you seem to be confusing them.