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What's your level of confidence in the coaching staff?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/26/2019 10:21 am
Positives? Negatives?
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Low  
Danny Kanell : 3/26/2019 11:20 am : link
.
shurmur game  
japanhead : 3/26/2019 11:23 am : link
management and timeout usage: questionable to poor.

shurmur taking half the season to seemingly get the offense to a respectable playing level: questionable.

shurmur convincing gettleman that he can work with OBJ and not to trade him, only to have OBJ traded 7 months after signing a 95 million dollar contract because of his sustained prima donna issues and seeming willingness to sit out a fourth of the season with a leg bruise: unfortunate.

clear upgrade over mcadoo, though, or so i'd argue. hopefully he gets better with the timeout/game management stuff. can probably attribute 1-2 losses last season directly to his ineptitude in this area.
His career record can be misleading  
djm : 3/26/2019 11:23 am : link
context matters. Belichick’s career record before New England wasn’t exactly awe inspiring to say the least.

With that said it’s a big year for shurmur. I think the offense is more talented than many seem to think. I want consistency this season and I expect it. I think shurmur is a good offensive mind and a sort of stabilizing influence here. Not sure he’s the guy to lead the giants to a run of excellence but baby steps....baby steps.
RE: Very low  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/26/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14357235 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I also was discouraged by his frequent referencing of the 3-13 record in 2017


That annoyed me too. He was in total cover-your-ass mode at several points last year with his comments, and it's an ugly look.

I get why, because of all the losing in his record, but part of me thinks it's in his head already.
low  
Greg from LI : 3/26/2019 11:25 am : link
They have an awful lot to prove. I was okay with hiring Shurmur and I didn't hold Cleveland against him, but he was quite uninspiring last year.
djm  
Go Terps : 3/26/2019 11:27 am : link
Since we're bringing up Belichick, here's a quote of his:

Quote:
#4. We don’t talk about last year. We don’t talk about next week. We talk about today, and we talk about the next game. That’s all we can really control. The rest of it will take care of itself.


Shurmur and Gettleman both don't seem to agree with him.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Hal Hunter is probably the least accomplished OL coach  
bw in dc : 3/26/2019 11:38 am : link
In comment 14357226 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
they've had in the building in years. Flaherty and Solari were both coaches with resumes and results.

And as soon as he left the Giants, Solari again did good work with Seattle's improved line.


It was such a scrap heap hire for such a critical position.

moderate  
Pascal4554 : 3/26/2019 11:43 am : link
I think Shurmur did a good job of starting to straighten out the culture of the team. I think he handles the players and the media well. He is certainly an upgrade over McAdoo. He did make some head scratching decisions with game management. I think our coaching staff is better than most of BBI thinks and is an upgrade over the prior regime. Bettcher gets a pass for year one with the scheme change, but this is a big year for him and the coaching staff.
incomplete  
fkap : 3/26/2019 11:43 am : link
When you inherit a shit team, and change from 4-3 to 3-4, you can't expect to have the personnel in place after a year.

not brimming with confidence, but allowances have to be made.

I'd prefer a real OC, not Shurmur running the show while we look at the org chart to remind us who the OC is.
It's low.  
Klaatu : 3/26/2019 11:45 am : link
But I'll give him one more year before I start picketing at the stadium.
Hopeful and Encouraged  
SgtDog : 3/26/2019 11:50 am : link
They inherited a last place team that was critically broken in the sense of camaraderie and team. From my limited view as a fan it appears they have focused on building camaraderie and team and produced positive results though they again ended the season a last place team. Last years draft has the potential to be one of our best in a while. They have positioned themselves to make some noise in this draft. So I cautiously remain hopeful and encouraged. BUT as a Giant fan from the 60's and 70's I relate to Charlie Brown once again being convinced by Lucy to kick the football. The bitch is going to move it again isn't she?!
Favorable  
TMS : 3/26/2019 11:57 am : link
Tough job with such a large turnover of players and coaches alike in one year, Good draft and average FA period to fill a lot of holes because of the purge that had to be done. Good secod half comeback last season. We have added youth and some may prove to be excellent contributors down the line, The future looks brighter than in 5/6 years.
I want him gone  
Optimus-NY : 3/26/2019 12:03 pm : link
He's a milquetoast hire and he effed up that punt return with Odell as well as the Philly game in Philly when SB was running wild by not running him more in the second half.
RE: His career record can be misleading  
Pan-handler : 3/26/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14357248 djm said:
Quote:
context matters. Belichick’s career record before New England wasn’t exactly awe inspiring to say the least.

With that said it’s a big year for shurmur. I think the offense is more talented than many seem to think. I want consistency this season and I expect it. I think shurmur is a good offensive mind and a sort of stabilizing influence here. Not sure he’s the guy to lead the giants to a run of excellence but baby steps....baby steps.


Offense with Barkley, Engram and Shephard as the focal points and just a passable OL looked pretty darn good the last few games of the season.

Add to that a better OL and Tate....The O should be more than fine.

Defense with more appropriately fitting pieces should be the focal point for improvement in the draft.
not impressed  
GiantsFan84 : 3/26/2019 12:15 pm : link
at all. i don't think we have the right people in charge
Juries out for me until I see what he can do developing the Giants...  
GFAN52 : 3/26/2019 12:19 pm : link
next franchise QB to replace Eli. He's supposed to be the "QB Whisperer" after all.
Top to bottom  
JonC : 3/26/2019 12:26 pm : link
there's still too many half measures for my liking, including DG and PS. He's a respectable OC, but I'm concerned that's his ceiling.
RE: Top to bottom  
Pan-handler : 3/26/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14357435 JonC said:
Quote:
there's still too many half measures for my liking, including DG and PS. He's a respectable OC, but I'm concerned that's his ceiling.


Guess we'll find out soon enough
I think Shurmur is going to be a guy that garners the respect of his  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/26/2019 12:31 pm : link
players, has them prepared to play, and will put his players in the best positions to succeed offensively. However, the in game management is a glaring weakness and was when he was in Cleveland. Since your average fan doesn't really know what the coach does other than the in game decisions I can see why there is pitchfork crowd here for him.
I feel good about the coaching staff after PS  
mfsd : 3/26/2019 12:35 pm : link
Hunter made chicken salad out of chicken shit with the OL in the second half of the season...the WRs seemed to really take to Tolbert, and we got better than expected effort/production from our JAG WRs after OBJ/Shep, and our new special teams coach got them to play well in coverage and kicking games.

Plus Bettcher seems well regarded, jury’s still out but he was running a defense with only about 6-7 guys who should be NFL starters

As others said, Shurmur made some bonehead decisions in game...incomplete so far, but I’m holding out hope after the offense got rolling late in the season
I don't have a confident feeling in Schurmur  
Reb8thVA : 3/26/2019 12:39 pm : link
Some of his decisions last year didn't inspire confidence.

Nonetheless, I'm keeping an open mind.
I'm not really a fan of Shurmur  
Matt in SGS : 3/26/2019 12:42 pm : link
he was hidden for the most part because the roster sucked and you really couldn't question him too much. But the game in Philly, when the Giants were the better team and they blew it was a huge red flag to me and how he was as a coach. And he's not like he's a rookie out there, there is only so much growth we can expect from him.

That said, NFL teams tend to always look at the previous coach and want to get a different type after they leave. In the past it was always the disciplinarian vs. the players coach. Fassel to Coughlin a textbook example.

In the case of Shurmur, the Giants watched McAdoo throw up all over himself and lose the locker room at a rate that made Ray Handley look like Knute Rockne. So they wanted to get a guy who they knew would be solid, wouldn't cause problems and get some authority back from the head coach.

Do I see Shurmur as a Super Bowl winning coach one day? No, I don't. But what do I know, I thought Doug Pedersen was a joke after his first year in Philly with several dubious calls, including costing the Eagles the game at MetLife in 2016.
RE: I think Shurmur is going to be a guy that garners the respect of his  
Pan-handler : 3/26/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14357444 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
players, has them prepared to play, and will put his players in the best positions to succeed offensively. However, the in game management is a glaring weakness and was when he was in Cleveland. Since your average fan doesn't really know what the coach does other than the in game decisions I can see why there is pitchfork crowd here for him.


He might need a quality control coach
I think Shurmur is overmatched in game day  
Oscar : 3/26/2019 12:45 pm : link
Some guys are just better as coordinators. He doesn’t seem like someone who can handle running the full team and thinking about macro strategy. Head Coach is as important as QB and way more important than any other position in football and I don’t think the Giants have a good one.

Look at Belichick. I am positive he could make the playoffs with a team constructed entirely of training camp castoffs from the rest of the league.
Solid  
Joey in VA : 3/26/2019 12:51 pm : link
Actually. Hal Hunter gets lambasted here but look at the garbage he had to work with last year and then we cut Flowers and Omameh, lose Halapio then Greco slides in at OC, then he moves to RG so Pulley moves to OC and then we grab Jamon Brown off the street and the offense was improving in the second half of the year. Two opening day starters remained at the end of the year and we played 3 different Centers and 3 different RGs and two RTs. To get those guys ready off the street and into the playbook and actually win a few games and score a bunch at the end is a testament to good coaching.

I like Shurmur, he did make some bone headed decisions but he's a smart guy and he has the right temperament and attitude to make it here. Shula and Bettcher both have good track records, and I expect both units to make big strides in year 2 of brand new systems. Overall the jury is out but i have faith in them as a whole.
RE: Very low  
section125 : 3/26/2019 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14357235 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Shurmur was possibly the worst gameday coach in the league last year, and that's saying something. I also was discouraged by his frequent referencing of the 3-13 record in 2017, and the way he used Lauletta as the butt of a joke after the Washington game.

His career record is 15-34.


Yeah, two years with the worst team in football and the third with the second worst team in football doesn't get you a great record.
His game management was no worse than Coughlin's...no it was better, much better.

He was not as good as I thought he would be, but not as bad as some would have you believe. I'd call him mediocre.
It was better than Coughlin's last year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/26/2019 1:07 pm : link
but that last year by Coughlin was abysmal. It's not a high water mark to overcome.

Shurmur isn't anywhere near Coughlin when he was at his best on game days. Aside from games where TC had to reign in Gilbride and didn't, there weren't very many gameday concerns and he was excellent on challenges.
RE: Solid  
Pan-handler : 3/26/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14357494 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Actually. Hal Hunter gets lambasted here but look at the garbage he had to work with last year and then we cut Flowers and Omameh, lose Halapio then Greco slides in at OC, then he moves to RG so Pulley moves to OC and then we grab Jamon Brown off the street and the offense was improving in the second half of the year. Two opening day starters remained at the end of the year and we played 3 different Centers and 3 different RGs and two RTs. To get those guys ready off the street and into the playbook and actually win a few games and score a bunch at the end is a testament to good coaching.

I like Shurmur, he did make some bone headed decisions but he's a smart guy and he has the right temperament and attitude to make it here. Shula and Bettcher both have good track records, and I expect both units to make big strides in year 2 of brand new systems. Overall the jury is out but i have faith in them as a whole.


+1, solid take.
RE: It was better than Coughlin's last year  
section125 : 3/26/2019 1:14 pm : link
In comment 14357526 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
but that last year by Coughlin was abysmal. It's not a high water mark to overcome.

Shurmur isn't anywhere near Coughlin when he was at his best on game days. Aside from games where TC had to reign in Gilbride and didn't, there weren't very many gameday concerns and he was excellent on challenges.


Not saying PS is anywhere near as good of a football coach as TC - but TC could be a god awful game day manager on occasion and his clock management was scary bad most of the time.
a 5 out of 10  
giantsFC : 3/26/2019 1:21 pm : link
nobody here has had any success as a HC. they are steady and have a plan (whatever that may be), but they have yet to win at all.

Until that changes. It remains pedestrian
Shumer is statically likely and has not shown differently  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/26/2019 1:26 pm : link
To be in thr median and less coaches category, like Handley, Reeves, Fassel, and Mcadoo. Unlikely to be in the great HoF caliber coaches like Parcells and Coughlin.

Why did we get rid of Coughlin again for Reese???? He would have been balling along with Eli in the GB playoff game.
Not good right now  
mdc1 : 3/26/2019 1:28 pm : link
look at the record. You are what your record indicates. Not getting the job done. Now that they are cleaning house, only winning is expected and you cannot blame Reese any longer for his incompetency
Shurmur  
PaulN : 3/26/2019 1:41 pm : link
Was a disappointment, he was supposed to be a great game caller, he was not, he did not find ways to get Barkley out in space enough for me to even consider him mediocre, the best thing that happened was that the team did not pack it in.
RE: Shurmur  
Pan-handler : 3/26/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14357582 PaulN said:
Quote:
Was a disappointment, he was supposed to be a great game caller, he was not, he did not find ways to get Barkley out in space enough for me to even consider him mediocre, the best thing that happened was that the team did not pack it in.


Supremely immoble Qb coupled with a mess of an interior OL most of the year will do that. Consistent A-gap pressure is very hard to deal with for any offense.

Even with a mediocre RG in Brown and Hernandez steadily improving at LG, there was great improvement. Now you got Zietler which is a big step up from Brown and Hernandez with a full year under his belt. And Pulley who wasnt great but not terrible to battle it out with Pio for the starting job.
RE: RE: Shurmur  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/26/2019 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14357594 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
In comment 14357582 PaulN said:


Quote:


Was a disappointment, he was supposed to be a great game caller, he was not, he did not find ways to get Barkley out in space enough for me to even consider him mediocre, the best thing that happened was that the team did not pack it in.



Supremely immoble Qb coupled with a mess of an interior OL most of the year will do that. Consistent A-gap pressure is very hard to deal with for any offense.

Even with a mediocre RG in Brown and Hernandez steadily improving at LG, there was great improvement. Now you got Zietler which is a big step up from Brown and Hernandez with a full year under his belt. And Pulley who wasnt great but not terrible to battle it out with Pio for the starting job.

I think Barkley was a huge factor too. Saw more old school two gapping later in the year, which was a defense designed to contain a player like Barkley.
None  
Thegratefulhead : 3/26/2019 2:23 pm : link
He inherited a 3-13 dysfunctional team with a beloved, old declining QB and diva WR that just signed a 95 million dollar contract. Surmur had zero head coaching success in his previous endeavor.

They only won 2 more games than the previous year with a much better but still shitty OL, healthy receiving corp and an amazing running back.

He will have a very new roster this year. It should be better. I can't hold him accountable for last year. This year, he needs to be accountable. Shurmur and DG need to be right about Eli. If they are not, they are not the right people to bring and develop the new one.
Mixed bag so far...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/26/2019 2:30 pm : link
pros -

Professionalism in the face of adversity, an underrated trait but really important in this time of transition/turmoil. I really liked how they went about dealing with a 1-7 start and trading off of assets by the organization. It was definitely not the start they had envisioned but there was no quit in the team and that starts at the top.

Talent development - as mentioned before many of us had our doubts about Hunter and not without good reason, but the OL showed improvement throughout the season. Same is true throughout our team - offense and defense was stocked with new/young/inexperienced players, many (IMO) played above expectations and kept the Giants in games. There is reason to believe that solid coaching was happening to develop that talent.

Cons:

Slow start - who wants to lose? Why are some organizations able to capitalize on the league's unfamiliarity with their systems and others struggle to execute their own game plan? Don't like that our new coaching staff ended up being the latter and not the former. Would really like to see the team start off hot for once. This is something that Reid seems to have figured out in the past five years or so - come out of camp executing at a high level and win games. We need to be the same kind of team and I place the inability to do so squarely on the HC.

Game-time decisions - as has been noted, there have been some questionable ones. I am not the most qualified to judge and think people overrate their own opinions on what the right in-game moves are, but the consensus is clear - too many errors in decision-making on the fly that cost us close games. This must be corrected going forward.

If PS and company want to start being viewed as solid professional coaches they better address both of their glaring opportunities before long. Fair or not, there is now a legacy of failure PS is facing and the only cure for that is winning, especially the close and intra-divisional games.
RE: Solid  
TMS : 3/26/2019 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14357494 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Actually. Hal Hunter gets lambasted here but look at the garbage he had to work with last year and then we cut Flowers and Omameh, lose Halapio then Greco slides in at OC, then he moves to RG so Pulley moves to OC and then we grab Jamon Brown off the street and the offense was improving in the second half of the year. Two opening day starters remained at the end of the year and we played 3 different Centers and 3 different RGs and two RTs. To get those guys ready off the street and into the playbook and actually win a few games and score a bunch at the end is a testament to good coaching. On the money Joey as usual.

I like Shurmur, he did make some bone headed decisions but he's a smart guy and he has the right temperament and attitude to make it here. Shula and Bettcher both have good track records, and I expect both units to make big strides in year 2 of brand new systems. Overall the jury is out but i have faith in them as a whole.
Shurmur sucks  
O Butter Giants 2019 : 3/26/2019 3:45 pm : link
Giants miss the playoffs in 2019, he should be gone. If McAdoo didn't last 2 seasons (made the playoffs once) then why should Shurmur keep going?

For that road Eagle game alone, he is on a short leash. There is NO reason why they should've lost that game up 19-3.

Going for 2 with the first Barkley TD leaving points off of the board, throwing the ball before the half and taking the ball out of Barkley's hands made NO sense. He did the same on the final drive (with good field position too) vs Dallas. Barkley didn't touch the ball once, isn't that why you drafted him second overall? He is a moron.
what is bad about this situation  
mdc1 : 3/26/2019 5:12 pm : link
is that we are so bad that owners won't fire him for quite some time even he fails again as we would have a lack of confidence by players. This is a painful reality of shitty player selection and development over the years. Lower tier team characteristics and you are stuck with failing coaches not knowing what is wrong.
Terrible clock managment.  
bradshaw44 : 3/26/2019 5:16 pm : link
And questionable decision making early in games. Going for two after scoring a TD on the opening drive against Philly was such a stupid move. They leave a lot to be desired. I think they can improve with better pieces to work with.
RE: Shurmur sucks  
bradshaw44 : 3/26/2019 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14357915 O Butter Giants 2019 said:
Quote:
Giants miss the playoffs in 2019, he should be gone. If McAdoo didn't last 2 seasons (made the playoffs once) then why should Shurmur keep going?

For that road Eagle game alone, he is on a short leash. There is NO reason why they should've lost that game up 19-3.

Going for 2 with the first Barkley TD leaving points off of the board, throwing the ball before the half and taking the ball out of Barkley's hands made NO sense. He did the same on the final drive (with good field position too) vs Dallas. Barkley didn't touch the ball once, isn't that why you drafted him second overall? He is a moron.


BM was fired for losing the team. The team had zero respect for him. Once that happens the coach has no value anymore. The Players seem to fight for Shurmur. That's why you wouldn't fire him if the team slightly improves and still misses the playoffs.
Incomplete  
RobCarpenter : 3/26/2019 5:36 pm : link
But Shurmur has a lot to prove this year.

What annoyed me last year to no end, though, was when Shurmur would take Barkley out on a series after he had a long run, and he'd put in Gallman - usually when they were inside the red zone. And the running game would, of course stall.

The second half of the Eagle game was a head scratcher as others have noted here.

RE: Terrible clock managment.  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/26/2019 7:30 pm : link
In comment 14358066 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
And questionable decision making early in games. Going for two after scoring a TD on the opening drive against Philly was such a stupid move. They leave a lot to be desired. I think they can improve with better pieces to work with.


Why is that a stupid move. Eli didn't throw the ball to a wide open TE. Players need to execute. Shurmur saw something he liked there on film or during drive. He can't go out there and execute basic shit for these guys.
RE: RE: Shurmur made some WTF  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/26/2019 8:30 pm : link
In comment 14357126 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 14357100 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


in game calls.



Off topic, but are you in Raleigh?


Knightdale.
Shurmur?  
Marty866b : 3/26/2019 11:18 pm : link
The jury is out but the best I can say about his coaching is that he is a good offensive coordinator.
biggest thing  
bc4life : 3/27/2019 2:25 pm : link
1-7 team still played hard, played hard all season.

When offensive line started playing better, got a better sense of his system. all coaches have curious play calls, keep in mind team left some plays on the field.

Will be interested to see what they can the entire season w/o Odell.

I thought it was reasonable hire and have seen nothing compelling to change that opinion.

Most fans don't get the boss thing and this is one of the harder boss jobs going
Jury is still out...  
Rong5611 : 3/27/2019 3:21 pm : link
Team didn't quit (except for OBJ), which is good.

Game management, fair at best.

I don't think he's in any real jeopardy unless the year is a total disaster (of his making, similar to McAdoo).

This team is set for a run in 2020, he needs to position them for it this year - i.e. - the team needs to improve.



RE: RE: Terrible clock managment.  
O Butter Giants 2019 : 3/28/2019 11:33 am : link
In comment 14358254 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14358066 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


And questionable decision making early in games. Going for two after scoring a TD on the opening drive against Philly was such a stupid move. They leave a lot to be desired. I think they can improve with better pieces to work with.



Why is that a stupid move. Eli didn't throw the ball to a wide open TE. Players need to execute. Shurmur saw something he liked there on film or during drive. He can't go out there and execute basic shit for these guys.


Dumb post. Still the coach's decision in the end to send his team out on the field for unnecessary extra points that early in the game. You don't leave points on the board, on the road, against a tough divisional rival (with the crowd out of it after the score) and you also had a kicker who was 99% automatic. Those missed points prove to be costly.

Putting the ball in an over the hill QB's hands more than required is on the coach.
RE: incomplete  
Jersey55 : 3/28/2019 5:02 pm : link
In comment 14357301 fkap said:
Quote:
When you inherit a shit team, and change from 4-3 to 3-4, you can't expect to have the personnel in place after a year.

not brimming with confidence, but allowances have to be made.

I'd prefer a real OC, not Shurmur running the show while we look at the org chart to remind us who the OC is.
I agree, I would prefer an OC running the show too, when you do 2 jobs at the same time one or both of them will suffer..
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