Shurmur was possibly the worst gameday coach in the league last year, and that's saying something. I also was discouraged by his frequent referencing of the 3-13 record in 2017, and the way he used Lauletta as the butt of a joke after the Washington game.
His career record is 15-34.
Yeah, two years with the worst team in football and the third with the second worst team in football doesn't get you a great record.
His game management was no worse than Coughlin's...no it was better, much better.
He was not as good as I thought he would be, but not as bad as some would have you believe. I'd call him mediocre.
but that last year by Coughlin was abysmal. It's not a high water mark to overcome.
Shurmur isn't anywhere near Coughlin when he was at his best on game days. Aside from games where TC had to reign in Gilbride and didn't, there weren't very many gameday concerns and he was excellent on challenges.
Actually. Hal Hunter gets lambasted here but look at the garbage he had to work with last year and then we cut Flowers and Omameh, lose Halapio then Greco slides in at OC, then he moves to RG so Pulley moves to OC and then we grab Jamon Brown off the street and the offense was improving in the second half of the year. Two opening day starters remained at the end of the year and we played 3 different Centers and 3 different RGs and two RTs. To get those guys ready off the street and into the playbook and actually win a few games and score a bunch at the end is a testament to good coaching.
I like Shurmur, he did make some bone headed decisions but he's a smart guy and he has the right temperament and attitude to make it here. Shula and Bettcher both have good track records, and I expect both units to make big strides in year 2 of brand new systems. Overall the jury is out but i have faith in them as a whole.
but that last year by Coughlin was abysmal. It's not a high water mark to overcome.
Shurmur isn't anywhere near Coughlin when he was at his best on game days. Aside from games where TC had to reign in Gilbride and didn't, there weren't very many gameday concerns and he was excellent on challenges.
Not saying PS is anywhere near as good of a football coach as TC - but TC could be a god awful game day manager on occasion and his clock management was scary bad most of the time.
To be in thr median and less coaches category, like Handley, Reeves, Fassel, and Mcadoo. Unlikely to be in the great HoF caliber coaches like Parcells and Coughlin.
Why did we get rid of Coughlin again for Reese???? He would have been balling along with Eli in the GB playoff game.
look at the record. You are what your record indicates. Not getting the job done. Now that they are cleaning house, only winning is expected and you cannot blame Reese any longer for his incompetency
Was a disappointment, he was supposed to be a great game caller, he was not, he did not find ways to get Barkley out in space enough for me to even consider him mediocre, the best thing that happened was that the team did not pack it in.
Was a disappointment, he was supposed to be a great game caller, he was not, he did not find ways to get Barkley out in space enough for me to even consider him mediocre, the best thing that happened was that the team did not pack it in.
Supremely immoble Qb coupled with a mess of an interior OL most of the year will do that. Consistent A-gap pressure is very hard to deal with for any offense.
Even with a mediocre RG in Brown and Hernandez steadily improving at LG, there was great improvement. Now you got Zietler which is a big step up from Brown and Hernandez with a full year under his belt. And Pulley who wasnt great but not terrible to battle it out with Pio for the starting job.
Was a disappointment, he was supposed to be a great game caller, he was not, he did not find ways to get Barkley out in space enough for me to even consider him mediocre, the best thing that happened was that the team did not pack it in.
Supremely immoble Qb coupled with a mess of an interior OL most of the year will do that. Consistent A-gap pressure is very hard to deal with for any offense.
Even with a mediocre RG in Brown and Hernandez steadily improving at LG, there was great improvement. Now you got Zietler which is a big step up from Brown and Hernandez with a full year under his belt. And Pulley who wasnt great but not terrible to battle it out with Pio for the starting job.
I think Barkley was a huge factor too. Saw more old school two gapping later in the year, which was a defense designed to contain a player like Barkley.
He inherited a 3-13 dysfunctional team with a beloved, old declining QB and diva WR that just signed a 95 million dollar contract. Surmur had zero head coaching success in his previous endeavor.
They only won 2 more games than the previous year with a much better but still shitty OL, healthy receiving corp and an amazing running back.
He will have a very new roster this year. It should be better. I can't hold him accountable for last year. This year, he needs to be accountable. Shurmur and DG need to be right about Eli. If they are not, they are not the right people to bring and develop the new one.
Professionalism in the face of adversity, an underrated trait but really important in this time of transition/turmoil. I really liked how they went about dealing with a 1-7 start and trading off of assets by the organization. It was definitely not the start they had envisioned but there was no quit in the team and that starts at the top.
Talent development - as mentioned before many of us had our doubts about Hunter and not without good reason, but the OL showed improvement throughout the season. Same is true throughout our team - offense and defense was stocked with new/young/inexperienced players, many (IMO) played above expectations and kept the Giants in games. There is reason to believe that solid coaching was happening to develop that talent.
Cons:
Slow start - who wants to lose? Why are some organizations able to capitalize on the league's unfamiliarity with their systems and others struggle to execute their own game plan? Don't like that our new coaching staff ended up being the latter and not the former. Would really like to see the team start off hot for once. This is something that Reid seems to have figured out in the past five years or so - come out of camp executing at a high level and win games. We need to be the same kind of team and I place the inability to do so squarely on the HC.
Game-time decisions - as has been noted, there have been some questionable ones. I am not the most qualified to judge and think people overrate their own opinions on what the right in-game moves are, but the consensus is clear - too many errors in decision-making on the fly that cost us close games. This must be corrected going forward.
If PS and company want to start being viewed as solid professional coaches they better address both of their glaring opportunities before long. Fair or not, there is now a legacy of failure PS is facing and the only cure for that is winning, especially the close and intra-divisional games.
Actually. Hal Hunter gets lambasted here but look at the garbage he had to work with last year and then we cut Flowers and Omameh, lose Halapio then Greco slides in at OC, then he moves to RG so Pulley moves to OC and then we grab Jamon Brown off the street and the offense was improving in the second half of the year. Two opening day starters remained at the end of the year and we played 3 different Centers and 3 different RGs and two RTs. To get those guys ready off the street and into the playbook and actually win a few games and score a bunch at the end is a testament to good coaching. On the money Joey as usual.
I like Shurmur, he did make some bone headed decisions but he's a smart guy and he has the right temperament and attitude to make it here. Shula and Bettcher both have good track records, and I expect both units to make big strides in year 2 of brand new systems. Overall the jury is out but i have faith in them as a whole.
Giants miss the playoffs in 2019, he should be gone. If McAdoo didn't last 2 seasons (made the playoffs once) then why should Shurmur keep going?
For that road Eagle game alone, he is on a short leash. There is NO reason why they should've lost that game up 19-3.
Going for 2 with the first Barkley TD leaving points off of the board, throwing the ball before the half and taking the ball out of Barkley's hands made NO sense. He did the same on the final drive (with good field position too) vs Dallas. Barkley didn't touch the ball once, isn't that why you drafted him second overall? He is a moron.
is that we are so bad that owners won't fire him for quite some time even he fails again as we would have a lack of confidence by players. This is a painful reality of shitty player selection and development over the years. Lower tier team characteristics and you are stuck with failing coaches not knowing what is wrong.
And questionable decision making early in games. Going for two after scoring a TD on the opening drive against Philly was such a stupid move. They leave a lot to be desired. I think they can improve with better pieces to work with.
Giants miss the playoffs in 2019, he should be gone. If McAdoo didn't last 2 seasons (made the playoffs once) then why should Shurmur keep going?
For that road Eagle game alone, he is on a short leash. There is NO reason why they should've lost that game up 19-3.
Going for 2 with the first Barkley TD leaving points off of the board, throwing the ball before the half and taking the ball out of Barkley's hands made NO sense. He did the same on the final drive (with good field position too) vs Dallas. Barkley didn't touch the ball once, isn't that why you drafted him second overall? He is a moron.
BM was fired for losing the team. The team had zero respect for him. Once that happens the coach has no value anymore. The Players seem to fight for Shurmur. That's why you wouldn't fire him if the team slightly improves and still misses the playoffs.
What annoyed me last year to no end, though, was when Shurmur would take Barkley out on a series after he had a long run, and he'd put in Gallman - usually when they were inside the red zone. And the running game would, of course stall.
The second half of the Eagle game was a head scratcher as others have noted here.
And questionable decision making early in games. Going for two after scoring a TD on the opening drive against Philly was such a stupid move. They leave a lot to be desired. I think they can improve with better pieces to work with.
Why is that a stupid move. Eli didn't throw the ball to a wide open TE. Players need to execute. Shurmur saw something he liked there on film or during drive. He can't go out there and execute basic shit for these guys.
1-7 team still played hard, played hard all season.
When offensive line started playing better, got a better sense of his system. all coaches have curious play calls, keep in mind team left some plays on the field.
Will be interested to see what they can the entire season w/o Odell.
I thought it was reasonable hire and have seen nothing compelling to change that opinion.
Most fans don't get the boss thing and this is one of the harder boss jobs going
And questionable decision making early in games. Going for two after scoring a TD on the opening drive against Philly was such a stupid move. They leave a lot to be desired. I think they can improve with better pieces to work with.
Why is that a stupid move. Eli didn't throw the ball to a wide open TE. Players need to execute. Shurmur saw something he liked there on film or during drive. He can't go out there and execute basic shit for these guys.
Dumb post. Still the coach's decision in the end to send his team out on the field for unnecessary extra points that early in the game. You don't leave points on the board, on the road, against a tough divisional rival (with the crowd out of it after the score) and you also had a kicker who was 99% automatic. Those missed points prove to be costly.
Putting the ball in an over the hill QB's hands more than required is on the coach.
His career record is 15-34.
Yeah, two years with the worst team in football and the third with the second worst team in football doesn't get you a great record.
His game management was no worse than Coughlin's...no it was better, much better.
He was not as good as I thought he would be, but not as bad as some would have you believe. I'd call him mediocre.
Shurmur isn't anywhere near Coughlin when he was at his best on game days. Aside from games where TC had to reign in Gilbride and didn't, there weren't very many gameday concerns and he was excellent on challenges.
I like Shurmur, he did make some bone headed decisions but he's a smart guy and he has the right temperament and attitude to make it here. Shula and Bettcher both have good track records, and I expect both units to make big strides in year 2 of brand new systems. Overall the jury is out but i have faith in them as a whole.
+1, solid take.
Shurmur isn't anywhere near Coughlin when he was at his best on game days. Aside from games where TC had to reign in Gilbride and didn't, there weren't very many gameday concerns and he was excellent on challenges.
Not saying PS is anywhere near as good of a football coach as TC - but TC could be a god awful game day manager on occasion and his clock management was scary bad most of the time.
Until that changes. It remains pedestrian
Why did we get rid of Coughlin again for Reese???? He would have been balling along with Eli in the GB playoff game.
Supremely immoble Qb coupled with a mess of an interior OL most of the year will do that. Consistent A-gap pressure is very hard to deal with for any offense.
Even with a mediocre RG in Brown and Hernandez steadily improving at LG, there was great improvement. Now you got Zietler which is a big step up from Brown and Hernandez with a full year under his belt. And Pulley who wasnt great but not terrible to battle it out with Pio for the starting job.
Quote:
Was a disappointment, he was supposed to be a great game caller, he was not, he did not find ways to get Barkley out in space enough for me to even consider him mediocre, the best thing that happened was that the team did not pack it in.
Supremely immoble Qb coupled with a mess of an interior OL most of the year will do that. Consistent A-gap pressure is very hard to deal with for any offense.
Even with a mediocre RG in Brown and Hernandez steadily improving at LG, there was great improvement. Now you got Zietler which is a big step up from Brown and Hernandez with a full year under his belt. And Pulley who wasnt great but not terrible to battle it out with Pio for the starting job.
I think Barkley was a huge factor too. Saw more old school two gapping later in the year, which was a defense designed to contain a player like Barkley.
They only won 2 more games than the previous year with a much better but still shitty OL, healthy receiving corp and an amazing running back.
He will have a very new roster this year. It should be better. I can't hold him accountable for last year. This year, he needs to be accountable. Shurmur and DG need to be right about Eli. If they are not, they are not the right people to bring and develop the new one.
Professionalism in the face of adversity, an underrated trait but really important in this time of transition/turmoil. I really liked how they went about dealing with a 1-7 start and trading off of assets by the organization. It was definitely not the start they had envisioned but there was no quit in the team and that starts at the top.
Talent development - as mentioned before many of us had our doubts about Hunter and not without good reason, but the OL showed improvement throughout the season. Same is true throughout our team - offense and defense was stocked with new/young/inexperienced players, many (IMO) played above expectations and kept the Giants in games. There is reason to believe that solid coaching was happening to develop that talent.
Cons:
Slow start - who wants to lose? Why are some organizations able to capitalize on the league's unfamiliarity with their systems and others struggle to execute their own game plan? Don't like that our new coaching staff ended up being the latter and not the former. Would really like to see the team start off hot for once. This is something that Reid seems to have figured out in the past five years or so - come out of camp executing at a high level and win games. We need to be the same kind of team and I place the inability to do so squarely on the HC.
Game-time decisions - as has been noted, there have been some questionable ones. I am not the most qualified to judge and think people overrate their own opinions on what the right in-game moves are, but the consensus is clear - too many errors in decision-making on the fly that cost us close games. This must be corrected going forward.
If PS and company want to start being viewed as solid professional coaches they better address both of their glaring opportunities before long. Fair or not, there is now a legacy of failure PS is facing and the only cure for that is winning, especially the close and intra-divisional games.
I like Shurmur, he did make some bone headed decisions but he's a smart guy and he has the right temperament and attitude to make it here. Shula and Bettcher both have good track records, and I expect both units to make big strides in year 2 of brand new systems. Overall the jury is out but i have faith in them as a whole.
For that road Eagle game alone, he is on a short leash. There is NO reason why they should've lost that game up 19-3.
Going for 2 with the first Barkley TD leaving points off of the board, throwing the ball before the half and taking the ball out of Barkley's hands made NO sense. He did the same on the final drive (with good field position too) vs Dallas. Barkley didn't touch the ball once, isn't that why you drafted him second overall? He is a moron.
For that road Eagle game alone, he is on a short leash. There is NO reason why they should've lost that game up 19-3.
Going for 2 with the first Barkley TD leaving points off of the board, throwing the ball before the half and taking the ball out of Barkley's hands made NO sense. He did the same on the final drive (with good field position too) vs Dallas. Barkley didn't touch the ball once, isn't that why you drafted him second overall? He is a moron.
BM was fired for losing the team. The team had zero respect for him. Once that happens the coach has no value anymore. The Players seem to fight for Shurmur. That's why you wouldn't fire him if the team slightly improves and still misses the playoffs.
What annoyed me last year to no end, though, was when Shurmur would take Barkley out on a series after he had a long run, and he'd put in Gallman - usually when they were inside the red zone. And the running game would, of course stall.
The second half of the Eagle game was a head scratcher as others have noted here.
Why is that a stupid move. Eli didn't throw the ball to a wide open TE. Players need to execute. Shurmur saw something he liked there on film or during drive. He can't go out there and execute basic shit for these guys.
Quote:
in game calls.
Off topic, but are you in Raleigh?
Knightdale.
When offensive line started playing better, got a better sense of his system. all coaches have curious play calls, keep in mind team left some plays on the field.
Will be interested to see what they can the entire season w/o Odell.
I thought it was reasonable hire and have seen nothing compelling to change that opinion.
Most fans don't get the boss thing and this is one of the harder boss jobs going
Game management, fair at best.
I don't think he's in any real jeopardy unless the year is a total disaster (of his making, similar to McAdoo).
This team is set for a run in 2020, he needs to position them for it this year - i.e. - the team needs to improve.
Quote:
And questionable decision making early in games. Going for two after scoring a TD on the opening drive against Philly was such a stupid move. They leave a lot to be desired. I think they can improve with better pieces to work with.
Why is that a stupid move. Eli didn't throw the ball to a wide open TE. Players need to execute. Shurmur saw something he liked there on film or during drive. He can't go out there and execute basic shit for these guys.
Dumb post. Still the coach's decision in the end to send his team out on the field for unnecessary extra points that early in the game. You don't leave points on the board, on the road, against a tough divisional rival (with the crowd out of it after the score) and you also had a kicker who was 99% automatic. Those missed points prove to be costly.
Putting the ball in an over the hill QB's hands more than required is on the coach.
not brimming with confidence, but allowances have to be made.
I'd prefer a real OC, not Shurmur running the show while we look at the org chart to remind us who the OC is.