But I was under the impression this is an Hasidic issue not orthodox issue. I think it’s utterly fair to call into question some of the practices of hasidics, not the least of which is the (at times) abominable treatment of women and propensity for (allegedly) government fraud. To me this is akin to a Christian calling out some of the Mormon polygamy cults in Utah. It’s not being anti Semitic it’s called being human and having issue with people being treated horribly.
There is a similar outbreak in Lakewood, and having a 3 year old and 4 month old down in this area i am constantly worried about bringing them to certain parks or kid places. It’s not necessarily rationale but parenthood strips you of rational thought when you are constantly afraid of things like the flu, rsv, and pneumonia. When you throw in a disease that was essentially eradicated it’s just that much more frustrating. And mmr is only 97% effective, which obviously is high but that 3% looms large when stakes are so massive for a parent.
RE: There is no halachic (religious law or practice related) Â
reason for Orthodox Jews to refuse immunization for themselves or their children. None whatsoever. Beyond that, there are general, broad based halacha about maintaining one's health.
One of the most strict commonly observed practices in Judaism is to fast on Yom Kippur, the anual day of atonement. The fast is over 24 hours, sunset to sunset, and to observe it properly one neither eats nor drinks anything during the fast. My wife is modestly observant, and she always fasts for the full time period. She was doing so during her pregnancy with our first child, and became very weak. I urged her to eat and drink a little something, because I had spoken to the Orthodox Rabbi who oversaw the Kashrut (Kosher) of the wine we were making, and he told me she absolutely should not fast during Yom Kippur, because providing for the best health of the unborn child was MORE IMPORTANT than fasting to make her own "atonement" for the prior year.
Ignoring the health of your children, not doing everything in a parent's power to insure the health and well being of their children - this behavior is logically prohibited by halacha. Any group of Orthodox spinning something else are flat out wrong by the majority opinion among the Orthodox that I know and deal with regularly.
Sorry for being windy. It's a shame and a tragedy to fail to immunize your children. Pretty unheard of in Israel itself, so far as I know. There's even a special branch of the Israeli national health care service that oversees the regular vaccination of all children at the proscribed ages. It's called "Tipat Hakav" and is a 100% free service. Besides immunizations, the organization provides regular check-ups for youngsters' visual, hearing, mental processing, etc at various age check points.
Lou, don't mean to disagree because you're obviously more knowledgeable about Israel than I am (as are probably most people), but I do know for sure that the introduction of measles for this specific outbreak in Rockland County was from travelers returning from visits to Israel. Also, in our public health notes, there have been several bullets about measles' outbreaks in Israel and the frustration of the gov't with anti-vaxxers there.
NY is working their way towards this, but other states have already limited vaccination exemptions to medical only.
Notably, California stopped religious and philosophical exemptions after the Disneyland measles outbreak and went to medical exemptions only. Perhaps not surprisingly, medical exemptions went up 3-fold immediately.
So, there's now a bill in front of the CA legislature to shift the power to grant medical exemptions from individual doctors to public health departments. Apparently, some asshole MD's are "selling" medical exemptions (and even surreptitiously advertising the practice).
As you might expect, anti-vaxxers are protesting the proposal and there was apparently even a fist-fight between a supporter and opponents of the proposal in or near the capitol.
Read an article that was titled that recently, and it was all about how social media helps movements like Anti Vaxxing grow in unprecedented numbers.
That's essentially how it started. Some hack doctor in the UK gained a following by promoting the dangers of Autism vaccines actually causing children to develop autism, got a few celebrities to buy into his ideas, and despite the fact that his information was debunked by a medical committee and he had his medical license revoked, the misinformation took off.
Several notable Hollywood personalities also are proudly anti-vaccine.
Lou, don't mean to disagree because you're obviously more knowledgeable about Israel than I am (as are probably most people), but I do know for sure that the introduction of measles for this specific outbreak in Rockland County was from travelers returning from visits to Israel. Also, in our public health notes, there have been several bullets about measles' outbreaks in Israel and the frustration of the gov't with anti-vaxxers there.
Bill I cited Halachal reasons why the Orthodox - at any level - should immunize their children. I also noted that the numerous Orthodox people I deal with through work and family - many of whom fit most comfortably into the "Modern Orthodox" community and several who fit more strictly observant - don't fail to immunize their kids or themselves.
And the government health care authorities heavily promote vaccinations and other infant/toddler care to the point where there is a special branch of the system designed specifically for kid 1-3 years old. There is indeed a Tipat Halav clinic in Beit El, I have been there on errand for friends. Beit El is a pretty small town of Ultra Orthodox inhabitants in the West Bank very close to Ramallah, classified by most as an "Israeli settlement."
I can't speak for and about other Orthodox communities. My Halachic knowledge comes from a very strict Community known as Chabad. They have more influence and members in New York City and Rockland County than in Israel, in fact.
I'm saddened to hear the epidemiological evidence points to Israel and alarmed. My wife is a pubic elementary school teacher, and she's never mentioned this problem. Of course, Orthodox kids go to separate schools.
The last note I saw on numbers was 3400 in Israel in February Â
Today's bulletin listed 2 new cases in Ashdod (?), both at Asuta Medical Institute. The ones the week prior were in Ashkelon and Netanya. I don't know any of those places; are the geographically close enough to hit the same communities?
The measles outbreak is particularly huge in Eastern Europe right now. I believe that's where the outbreak in Washington State/Oregon originated.
RE: The last note I saw on numbers was 3400 in Israel in February Â
Today's bulletin listed 2 new cases in Ashdod (?), both at Asuta Medical Institute. The ones the week prior were in Ashkelon and Netanya. I don't know any of those places; are the geographically close enough to hit the same communities?
The measles outbreak is particularly huge in Eastern Europe right now. I believe that's where the outbreak in Washington State/Oregon originated.
Ashdod and Ashkelon are close to each other on the southern Mediterranean coast, south of Tell Aviv moving towards the Gazan border, about 30 mins by car (or less) city center to center. Interesting about Eastern Europe as a hotbed of the epidemic; both Ashdod plus Ashkelon have heavy demographics of Russian immigrants from the past 20 years, as does Netanya which is much further away up the coast between Tel Aviv and Haifa.
My wife (before we were married) taught in a public school in Ashdod with numerous students the progeny of Russian immigrants parents, as well as a Rusdian immigrant principal above her. She was very favorably impressed by the social values she encountered among the Russian immigrant's community. The parents and kids were very pro education and backed her strongly whenever issues of discipline arose, which was not common IIRC. I say this because she often has complaints about the sense of entitlement she encounters from some Israeli students and especially from their parents.
I wouldn't think (stretching here) it would be the kind of community to ignore vaccinations - just the opposite. Again, that doesn't speak to the strict Orthodox communities in those cities.
Today's bulletin listed 2 new cases in Ashdod (?), both at Asuta Medical Institute. The ones the week prior were in Ashkelon and Netanya. I don't know any of those places; are the geographically close enough to hit the same communities?
The measles outbreak is particularly huge in Eastern Europe right now. I believe that's where the outbreak in Washington State/Oregon originated.
Ashdod and Ashkelon are close to each other on the southern Mediterranean coast, south of Tell Aviv moving towards the Gazan border, about 30 mins by car (or less) city center to center. Interesting about Eastern Europe as a hotbed of the epidemic; both Ashdod plus Ashkelon have heavy demographics of Russian immigrants from the past 20 years, as does Netanya which is much further away up the coast between Tel Aviv and Haifa.
My wife (before we were married) taught in a public school in Ashdod with numerous students the progeny of Russian immigrants parents, as well as a Rusdian immigrant principal above her. She was very favorably impressed by the social values she encountered among the Russian immigrant's community. The parents and kids were very pro education and backed her strongly whenever issues of discipline arose, which was not common IIRC. I say this because she often has complaints about the sense of entitlement she encounters from some Israeli students and especially from their parents.
I wouldn't think (stretching here) it would be the kind of community to ignore vaccinations - just the opposite. Again, that doesn't speak to the strict Orthodox communities in those cities.
That measles and chicken pox was a normal part of growing up. You caught it, if there were siblings they all got it, everyone missed a few days of school and that was it. Guarantee you there are people on this site who have been through it.
There is a similar outbreak in Lakewood, and having a 3 year old and 4 month old down in this area i am constantly worried about bringing them to certain parks or kid places. It’s not necessarily rationale but parenthood strips you of rational thought when you are constantly afraid of things like the flu, rsv, and pneumonia. When you throw in a disease that was essentially eradicated it’s just that much more frustrating. And mmr is only 97% effective, which obviously is high but that 3% looms large when stakes are so massive for a parent.
One of the most strict commonly observed practices in Judaism is to fast on Yom Kippur, the anual day of atonement. The fast is over 24 hours, sunset to sunset, and to observe it properly one neither eats nor drinks anything during the fast. My wife is modestly observant, and she always fasts for the full time period. She was doing so during her pregnancy with our first child, and became very weak. I urged her to eat and drink a little something, because I had spoken to the Orthodox Rabbi who oversaw the Kashrut (Kosher) of the wine we were making, and he told me she absolutely should not fast during Yom Kippur, because providing for the best health of the unborn child was MORE IMPORTANT than fasting to make her own "atonement" for the prior year.
Ignoring the health of your children, not doing everything in a parent's power to insure the health and well being of their children - this behavior is logically prohibited by halacha. Any group of Orthodox spinning something else are flat out wrong by the majority opinion among the Orthodox that I know and deal with regularly.
Sorry for being windy. It's a shame and a tragedy to fail to immunize your children. Pretty unheard of in Israel itself, so far as I know. There's even a special branch of the Israeli national health care service that oversees the regular vaccination of all children at the proscribed ages. It's called "Tipat Hakav" and is a 100% free service. Besides immunizations, the organization provides regular check-ups for youngsters' visual, hearing, mental processing, etc at various age check points.
Lou, don't mean to disagree because you're obviously more knowledgeable about Israel than I am (as are probably most people), but I do know for sure that the introduction of measles for this specific outbreak in Rockland County was from travelers returning from visits to Israel. Also, in our public health notes, there have been several bullets about measles' outbreaks in Israel and the frustration of the gov't with anti-vaxxers there.
Notably, California stopped religious and philosophical exemptions after the Disneyland measles outbreak and went to medical exemptions only. Perhaps not surprisingly, medical exemptions went up 3-fold immediately.
So, there's now a bill in front of the CA legislature to shift the power to grant medical exemptions from individual doctors to public health departments. Apparently, some asshole MD's are "selling" medical exemptions (and even surreptitiously advertising the practice).
As you might expect, anti-vaxxers are protesting the proposal and there was apparently even a fist-fight between a supporter and opponents of the proposal in or near the capitol.
That's essentially how it started. Some hack doctor in the UK gained a following by promoting the dangers of Autism vaccines actually causing children to develop autism, got a few celebrities to buy into his ideas, and despite the fact that his information was debunked by a medical committee and he had his medical license revoked, the misinformation took off.
Several notable Hollywood personalities also are proudly anti-vaccine.
I mean wtf?
Lou, don't mean to disagree because you're obviously more knowledgeable about Israel than I am (as are probably most people), but I do know for sure that the introduction of measles for this specific outbreak in Rockland County was from travelers returning from visits to Israel. Also, in our public health notes, there have been several bullets about measles' outbreaks in Israel and the frustration of the gov't with anti-vaxxers there.
Bill I cited Halachal reasons why the Orthodox - at any level - should immunize their children. I also noted that the numerous Orthodox people I deal with through work and family - many of whom fit most comfortably into the "Modern Orthodox" community and several who fit more strictly observant - don't fail to immunize their kids or themselves.
And the government health care authorities heavily promote vaccinations and other infant/toddler care to the point where there is a special branch of the system designed specifically for kid 1-3 years old. There is indeed a Tipat Halav clinic in Beit El, I have been there on errand for friends. Beit El is a pretty small town of Ultra Orthodox inhabitants in the West Bank very close to Ramallah, classified by most as an "Israeli settlement."
I can't speak for and about other Orthodox communities. My Halachic knowledge comes from a very strict Community known as Chabad. They have more influence and members in New York City and Rockland County than in Israel, in fact.
I'm saddened to hear the epidemiological evidence points to Israel and alarmed. My wife is a pubic elementary school teacher, and she's never mentioned this problem. Of course, Orthodox kids go to separate schools.
The measles outbreak is particularly huge in Eastern Europe right now. I believe that's where the outbreak in Washington State/Oregon originated.
The measles outbreak is particularly huge in Eastern Europe right now. I believe that's where the outbreak in Washington State/Oregon originated.
Ashdod and Ashkelon are close to each other on the southern Mediterranean coast, south of Tell Aviv moving towards the Gazan border, about 30 mins by car (or less) city center to center. Interesting about Eastern Europe as a hotbed of the epidemic; both Ashdod plus Ashkelon have heavy demographics of Russian immigrants from the past 20 years, as does Netanya which is much further away up the coast between Tel Aviv and Haifa.
My wife (before we were married) taught in a public school in Ashdod with numerous students the progeny of Russian immigrants parents, as well as a Rusdian immigrant principal above her. She was very favorably impressed by the social values she encountered among the Russian immigrant's community. The parents and kids were very pro education and backed her strongly whenever issues of discipline arose, which was not common IIRC. I say this because she often has complaints about the sense of entitlement she encounters from some Israeli students and especially from their parents.
I wouldn't think (stretching here) it would be the kind of community to ignore vaccinations - just the opposite. Again, that doesn't speak to the strict Orthodox communities in those cities.
Talk about slow on the uptake.
Quote:
Today's bulletin listed 2 new cases in Ashdod (?), both at Asuta Medical Institute. The ones the week prior were in Ashkelon and Netanya. I don't know any of those places; are the geographically close enough to hit the same communities?
The measles outbreak is particularly huge in Eastern Europe right now. I believe that's where the outbreak in Washington State/Oregon originated.
Ashdod and Ashkelon are close to each other on the southern Mediterranean coast, south of Tell Aviv moving towards the Gazan border, about 30 mins by car (or less) city center to center. Interesting about Eastern Europe as a hotbed of the epidemic; both Ashdod plus Ashkelon have heavy demographics of Russian immigrants from the past 20 years, as does Netanya which is much further away up the coast between Tel Aviv and Haifa.
My wife (before we were married) taught in a public school in Ashdod with numerous students the progeny of Russian immigrants parents, as well as a Rusdian immigrant principal above her. She was very favorably impressed by the social values she encountered among the Russian immigrant's community. The parents and kids were very pro education and backed her strongly whenever issues of discipline arose, which was not common IIRC. I say this because she often has complaints about the sense of entitlement she encounters from some Israeli students and especially from their parents.
I wouldn't think (stretching here) it would be the kind of community to ignore vaccinations - just the opposite. Again, that doesn't speak to the strict Orthodox communities in those cities.
This is good stuff. I appreciate it.
Of course this would be your response.
Of course.