On the high number of touches running back Saquon Barkley receives:
“We don’t track that. It is a good thing when he touches the ball. I do think the ball needs to be spread around. In games where you look at the final stat sheet and see six or seven guys touched the ball, I think that is the way you want to play offense.”
That is surprising that they don't track SB's touches. That seems a bit naive to me...
you get the follow-up - is that too many. followed by how many is enough. they said they want balance - I don't see a need for getting any more specifc than that.
RE: I thought this comment on Barkley was interesting... Â
On the high number of touches running back Saquon Barkley receives:
“We don’t track that. It is a good thing when he touches the ball. I do think the ball needs to be spread around. In games where you look at the final stat sheet and see six or seven guys touched the ball, I think that is the way you want to play offense.”
That is surprising that they don't track SB's touches. That seems a bit naive to me...
I actually don't believe him that they aren't tracking it at all. I don't think he is being 100% truthful about that lol.
let's shut down the follow ups to that and he did that both with the we don't track comment and then how to be successful it is best to spread the ball around. That mindset would actually play into the whole trade OBJ piece as well. I suspect, true or not, they felt they involved more people in the offense the last 4-5 weeks of the season which was when OBJ was out. Now, it will be nice to involve more people in the offense again who are a tad better but, you cna see the ideal scenario here, which is basically the way the Patriots offense works.
So in a close game you take Barkley out based on Â
actually shaking my head a few times last year when some of the posters that were urging caution with Barkley's workload were making comments about Gallman being in the game for a couple of series in a row.
There are countless examples of BBI being Bizarro World, but that one really got me chuckling.
that's just basic monitoring of tendencies that teams have been doing for decades.
If anything, he means they aren't tracking his touches during a game and making playcalling decisions based on that, like "hey Saquon's already up to 8 touches, let's put Gallman in on this key 3rd down play..."
RE: I'm sure they track his touches over the season Â
that's just basic monitoring of tendencies that teams have been doing for decades.
If anything, he means they aren't tracking his touches during a game and making playcalling decisions based on that, like "hey Saquon's already up to 8 touches, let's put Gallman in on this key 3rd down play..."
Ahh.. agreed. That's most likely what he meant. Good point.
One thing that has seemed to come out in this and other Â
offseason comments by PS and DG - the offense playing its best football at the end of the season while OBJ was hurt sounds like it gave them confidence they can succeed without him.
RE: So in a close game you take Barkley out based on Â
As they should, some nitwits here want to run Barkley into the fucking ground by year 3. I like how he didn't run the ball a ton last year were the bulk of the hard touches are coming from. Honestly in years we aren't going to playoffs his run touches should never exceed 300, some of that will happen organically from less running the ball because of losing. Just seems like a giant waste.
The Pitchforks and Torches came out about his wear and
tear and fear of injury . Personal goals do mean something
to the players . You play smart at times and go out of
bounds ect injuries happen many times they are fluke .
I can't remember the exact game but the pulled Barkley
and let Gallman mop up .
It does seem odd. That said, I don't think they overworked him last year.
That's coach speak, of course they track it, they track everything. You don't a full time analytics guy for years and not track that. You and bw are smarter than that.
heard the story of that guy before. Former top pick at 27 gets autoimmune disorder and dies two years later. Seems like a movie should have been made at least.
I think Shurmur is full of crap on the Barkley touches thing Â
they aren't focusing on his carry numbers live as the game is unfolding. The numbers may not have a direct impact on playcalling in the heat of the moment.
they aren't focusing on his carry numbers live as the game is unfolding. The numbers may not have a direct impact on playcalling in the heat of the moment.
That's how I read that.
That theory sure bears out during the Eagles game they botched.
Fortunately RBs are not like baseball pitchers ... Â
that are now bred to only throw 80-90 pitches or 6 innings a game. Imagine missing out on all the Nolan Ryan no hitters where he routinely throw 120+.
Most RBs actually get better with more touches as they get a feel for the flow of the game. The best way to prolong their careers is by having a real 2nd back so when you do take him out you don’t miss much.
actually shaking my head a few times last year when some of the posters that were urging caution with Barkley's workload were making comments about Gallman being in the game for a couple of series in a row.
There are countless examples of BBI being Bizarro World, but that one really got me chuckling.
I noticed that too, and it seemed really strange at the time. I'm over here going "WTF are they complaining about?"
heard the story of that guy before. Former top pick at 27 gets autoimmune disorder and dies two years later. Seems like a movie should have been made at least.
you get the follow-up - is that too many. followed by how many is enough. they said they want balance - I don't see a need for getting any more specifc than that.
Exactly, and you basically tip your hand to the rest of the league on where your cutoff is for his touches. No point in doing that
In the 4 games Beckham missed Shurmur is right the Giants did produce -- but I'd caution they also got shut out in one game, played a Washington team completely coming apart, and an exhibition game against the Cowboys.
It does seem odd. That said, I don't think they overworked him last year.
Maybe, maybe not. He was 2nd in rush attempts and 13th in passes completed. It's a pretty comparable work load to McCaffery who had more receptions but 42 less carries.
In the 4 games Beckham missed Shurmur is right the Giants did produce -- but I'd caution they also got shut out in one game, played a Washington team completely coming apart, and an exhibition game against the Cowboys.
This concerns me as well. Making huge franchise decisions off of a small sample size of of possibly flawed data because of the circumstantial evidence surrounding said data is a recipe for disaster. It does not mean they are wrong but I am very apprehensive.
"Unfortunately, Odell was hurt at the back end of the season and we were able to score our most points of the year. We will find a way.”
And it's 100% true. We spread it around more and scored more when he was out. Bye bye me first diva, hello balanced offense.
I agree with this.
Re: Barkley, I think they wanted to get him 20-25 touches a game — which is smart bc it’s pretty much the sweet spot between not enough touches and hurting the long term shelf life of the player.
Could or should the Giants have used Barkley more in certain game scripts last year? Sure, but I think we’ll see better usage and a more efficient offense without having to force feed 10-15 targets a game to Beckham.
It does seem odd. That said, I don't think they overworked him last year.
That's coach speak, of course they track it, they track everything. You don't a full time analytics guy for years and not track that. You and bw are smarter than that.
I honestly don’t think bw is smarter than that. I’ve noticed you’ve been extremely complimentary of him recently and I know he’s a long time poster. But he’s also absolutely obsessed with destroying management and he hates that they took Barkley over a QB. Put those two things together and it’s not surprising that he’s so quick to jump the gun on this and pile on. Facts be damned.
At times the objective of the offense was letting him reach a quota of touches instead of the most important goal - scoring. Because if Odell didn't get his touches, everyone was going to hear about it.
Here are some Odell quotes from this past year -
"I don’t think I’m given an opportunity to be the very best I can be. I don’t want to be held back anymore."
Are you unhappy in NY? “That’s a tough question.”
He then turned his attention to his usage, saying he’s been catching shallow routes and wants to go “over the top of somebody.”
“Knowing they were struggling (with injuries) in the secondary, personally I would’ve loved to attack them. But that wasn’t in our game plan.”
Again, a player of his caliber should want the ball. But at first he doesn't get it enough, then its too many shallow routes and crosses....
No. 1 goal at all times - whatever path leads to success for the 11 guys on the field.
“We don’t track that. It is a good thing when he touches the ball. I do think the ball needs to be spread around. In games where you look at the final stat sheet and see six or seven guys touched the ball, I think that is the way you want to play offense.”
That is surprising that they don't track SB's touches. That seems a bit naive to me...
I agree, but this is the type of player and position where tracking touches is vital.
Especially with such a big investment...
“We don’t track that. It is a good thing when he touches the ball. I do think the ball needs to be spread around. In games where you look at the final stat sheet and see six or seven guys touched the ball, I think that is the way you want to play offense.”
That is surprising that they don't track SB's touches. That seems a bit naive to me...
I actually don't believe him that they aren't tracking it at all. I don't think he is being 100% truthful about that lol.
I actually think that he didn't touch it enough last year.
There are countless examples of BBI being Bizarro World, but that one really got me chuckling.
If anything, he means they aren't tracking his touches during a game and making playcalling decisions based on that, like "hey Saquon's already up to 8 touches, let's put Gallman in on this key 3rd down play..."
If anything, he means they aren't tracking his touches during a game and making playcalling decisions based on that, like "hey Saquon's already up to 8 touches, let's put Gallman in on this key 3rd down play..."
Ahh.. agreed. That's most likely what he meant. Good point.
I actually think that he didn't touch it enough last year.
How dumb do you think Shurmur is
tear and fear of injury . Personal goals do mean something
to the players . You play smart at times and go out of
bounds ect injuries happen many times they are fluke .
I can't remember the exact game but the pulled Barkley
and let Gallman mop up .
And it's 100% true. We spread it around more and scored more when he was out. Bye bye me first diva, hello balanced offense.
And looking it up it looks like he died at 29 from an autoimmune disorder. Carries literally kill RBs.
That's how I read that.
That's how I read that.
That theory sure bears out during the Eagles game they botched.
Most RBs actually get better with more touches as they get a feel for the flow of the game. The best way to prolong their careers is by having a real 2nd back so when you do take him out you don’t miss much.
There are countless examples of BBI being Bizarro World, but that one really got me chuckling.
I noticed that too, and it seemed really strange at the time. I'm over here going "WTF are they complaining about?"
This is a good thing.
Ummm... there was a movie about it.
Ricky Bell movie - ( New Window )
Exactly, and you basically tip your hand to the rest of the league on where your cutoff is for his touches. No point in doing that
Maybe, maybe not. He was 2nd in rush attempts and 13th in passes completed. It's a pretty comparable work load to McCaffery who had more receptions but 42 less carries.
And it's 100% true. We spread it around more and scored more when he was out. Bye bye me first diva, hello balanced offense.
I agree with this.
Re: Barkley, I think they wanted to get him 20-25 touches a game — which is smart bc it’s pretty much the sweet spot between not enough touches and hurting the long term shelf life of the player.
Could or should the Giants have used Barkley more in certain game scripts last year? Sure, but I think we’ll see better usage and a more efficient offense without having to force feed 10-15 targets a game to Beckham.
Quote:
It does seem odd. That said, I don't think they overworked him last year.
That's coach speak, of course they track it, they track everything. You don't a full time analytics guy for years and not track that. You and bw are smarter than that.
I honestly don’t think bw is smarter than that. I’ve noticed you’ve been extremely complimentary of him recently and I know he’s a long time poster. But he’s also absolutely obsessed with destroying management and he hates that they took Barkley over a QB. Put those two things together and it’s not surprising that he’s so quick to jump the gun on this and pile on. Facts be damned.
Here are some Odell quotes from this past year -
"I don’t think I’m given an opportunity to be the very best I can be. I don’t want to be held back anymore."
Are you unhappy in NY? “That’s a tough question.”
He then turned his attention to his usage, saying he’s been catching shallow routes and wants to go “over the top of somebody.”
“Knowing they were struggling (with injuries) in the secondary, personally I would’ve loved to attack them. But that wasn’t in our game plan.”
Again, a player of his caliber should want the ball. But at first he doesn't get it enough, then its too many shallow routes and crosses....
No. 1 goal at all times - whatever path leads to success for the 11 guys on the field.
And it's 100% true. We spread it around more and scored more when he was out. Bye bye me first diva, hello balanced offense.
Re-reading this a second time, that's a total shot at Odell's "hematoma" in my humble, oft wrong opinion.
That he's a willing blocker; although Evan has yet to show it.
I remain a big fan of his, but something tells me, it's not going to end well for him here. That makes me very sad.