For one, how is trading a 3rd round pick for ~8 games of Tate and then getting at best a 4th for him two years later a smart move? Using the draft value chart their 3rd this year (89th I think) is worth about 145 points. A 4th round comp pick in 2020 is essentially valued as a late 5th round 2019 pick (~28 pts). Even the 1st pick of the 4th round is only 112 pts so they essentially traded a high 4th for half a season of Tate. And that assumes he even nets a 4th round comp pick. I could easily see that dropping to a 5th based on some of the other signings this season.
RB's are the lowest replacement value in football and every year they find ways to get quality players there for cheap. It's a concept that most teams in the NFL still don't understand and why Howie Roseman is one of the best executives in the NFL.
RB's are the lowest replacement value in football and every year they find ways to get quality players there for cheap. It's a concept that most teams in the NFL still don't understand and why Howie Roseman is one of the best executives in the NFL.
Well, if you want to go the analytics route, than acquiring Howard is idiotic since he's an awful receiving RB and the biggest correlation to offensive efficiency is yards/reception (or yards/attempt). A 1D RB is basically the opposite of what you want in that situation.
RB's are the lowest replacement value in football and every year they find ways to get quality players there for cheap. It's a concept that most teams in the NFL still don't understand and why Howie Roseman is one of the best executives in the NFL.
Well, if you want to go the analytics route, than acquiring Howard is idiotic since he's an awful receiving RB and the biggest correlation to offensive efficiency is yards/reception (or yards/attempt). A 1D RB is basically the opposite of what you want in that situation.
To this end, getting Howard touches over a player like Smallwood or Clement or Adams likely hurts their offensive efficiency and ability to move the ball.
this is a bad move for the Eagles is not being honest with themselves. Anyone saying this a great move for the Eagles is not being honest with themselves. It is the definition of "meh".
Not saying he's Darren Sproles, but I don't think he's Andre Williams either. He entered the League with almost no experience catching the ball at UAB or Indiana, and struggled as a rookie. Since then, his catch pct. has risen steadily; it's well over 70% the past two seasons.
RE: RE: I hate that team more than anyone, but you have to work pretty Â
fucking hard to try to paint this as anything but a good move for them.
Great move? Maybe - if he ends up producing, the most it's going to cost them is a 5th round pick next year. By the draft value chart, next year's picks are worth one round less than this year's, so it's essentially like being a 6th or 7th round pick based on production.
Cost controlled guy who's had solid production for a late round pick in next year's draft? No brainer.
I disagree that the equivalent of a (2019) 6-7th round pick for one year of RB that's averaged 3.9 yards/carry the last 2 seasons is a good move. Low risk move? Sure, but I'd personally prefer to keep my 6th round pick and gamble on finding someone just as good that will at least be under your control for 4 years.
Is he really a better RB than Gallman? There's some value in knowing he can physically handle a full season's workload, but Gallman's a much better receiving back with arguably more upside running wise too (granted that upside is likely because we haven't seen what he can/can't do like Howard).
How is Howard better than Ajayi? Or even Crowell? Two guys that could've been signed without giving up compensation (i.e. draft picks).
C'mon - have a look at the hit rate on 6th or 7th round picks. They're lottery tickets.
Ajayi and Crowell would have both cost them cap space, which the Eagles are thin on. Howard's a rental, and the price was a pick that generally doesn't yield a useful player.
And that's without considering that maybe Howard will be better in Philly than he was in Chicago, where their OL was putrid.
For those comparing him to Gallman - why? I don't see anyone suggesting the Giants should have signed him, and Gallman was a 4th round pick. They gave up nothing for Howard, and shouldn't have a hard time recouping their investment unless he totally stinks or ends up injured.
Not saying he's Darren Sproles, but I don't think he's Andre Williams either. He entered the League with almost no experience catching the ball at UAB or Indiana, and struggled as a rookie. Since then, his catch pct. has risen steadily; it's well over 70% the past two seasons.
He's pretty bad. Also keep in mind that while his catch% has gone up, he went from almost 3 targets/game his rookie season to barley 1 per game last season. Link - ( New Window )
“Only a (insert pick)? Worst GM ever! Such a lopsided trade. If I was GM I would have gotten 4 1st round picks at least”
Funny how even as the returns for these players continue to come in, it always seems like people assume team should have had better options.
From my perspective, I find it especially peculiar that NFL GMs value their own picks so highly, but the trade return on players who have already been drafted is considerably lower.
I understand that there's often less upside with a player who is already in the league, but there's also less downside (usually). And a draft pick comes with a signing bonus (and dead money if they end up being a bust), whereas a player who is already under contract carries less cap risk due to no amortized signing bonus and/or more flexibility to restructure the contract.
In Howard's case, I get that he's basically a fungible asset, but at RB, that's not such a bad thing. And I know he only has one year left, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. The Eagles will almost certainly let him walk after this season and will probably recoup a compensatory pick for him that ends up being basically equal to what they gave up in this trade. So they get a year of cheap RB production in a contract year in exchange for kicking a 6th round draft pick two years into the future.
Trading mid/late draft picks for veteran players is one of the greatest market inefficiencies in NFL roster construction, IMO. I'm glad Gettleman appears to be an active participant in the trade market, though I hope he'll be more of a buyer than a seller once the roster reaches some level of stability.
RE: RE: RE: I hate that team more than anyone, but you have to work pretty Â
C'mon - have a look at the hit rate on 6th or 7th round picks. They're lottery tickets.
Ajayi and Crowell would have both cost them cap space, which the Eagles are thin on. Howard's a rental, and the price was a pick that generally doesn't yield a useful player.
And that's without considering that maybe Howard will be better in Philly than he was in Chicago, where their OL was putrid.
For those comparing him to Gallman - why? I don't see anyone suggesting the Giants should have signed him, and Gallman was a 4th round pick. They gave up nothing for Howard, and shouldn't have a hard time recouping their investment unless he totally stinks or ends up injured.
Crowell signed a 1 yr deal. Haven't seen the numbers yet, but I'd be surprised if it breaks $2M.
Gallman was brought up because he's a mid/late round RB with a limited ceiling. He's one of dozens of guys around the league that likely could've matched (or exceeded) Howard's production last season.
Again, it was a low risk move for the Eagles, but I don't think it makes them any closer to a SB contender.
From top to bottom. I'm still pissed that we had people on this f*cking website rooting for 'em over the Pats. I entered this world with them never winning a Super Bowl & wanted to leave it with them still ringless.
F*ck the Eagles.
Lesser of two evils. Pretty simple. The Eagles are like Tie Domi. But when Tie Domi takes on Hitler, you root for Domi.
From top to bottom. I'm still pissed that we had people on this f*cking website rooting for 'em over the Pats. I entered this world with them never winning a Super Bowl & wanted to leave it with them still ringless.
F*ck the Eagles.
Lesser of two evils. Pretty simple. The Eagles are like Tie Domi. But when Tie Domi takes on Hitler, you root for Domi.
But it's not a bad move for the Eagles.
Well, if you want to go the analytics route, than acquiring Howard is idiotic since he's an awful receiving RB and the biggest correlation to offensive efficiency is yards/reception (or yards/attempt). A 1D RB is basically the opposite of what you want in that situation.
Quote:
RB's are the lowest replacement value in football and every year they find ways to get quality players there for cheap. It's a concept that most teams in the NFL still don't understand and why Howie Roseman is one of the best executives in the NFL.
Well, if you want to go the analytics route, than acquiring Howard is idiotic since he's an awful receiving RB and the biggest correlation to offensive efficiency is yards/reception (or yards/attempt). A 1D RB is basically the opposite of what you want in that situation.
To this end, getting Howard touches over a player like Smallwood or Clement or Adams likely hurts their offensive efficiency and ability to move the ball.
Quote:
fucking hard to try to paint this as anything but a good move for them.
Great move? Maybe - if he ends up producing, the most it's going to cost them is a 5th round pick next year. By the draft value chart, next year's picks are worth one round less than this year's, so it's essentially like being a 6th or 7th round pick based on production.
Cost controlled guy who's had solid production for a late round pick in next year's draft? No brainer.
I disagree that the equivalent of a (2019) 6-7th round pick for one year of RB that's averaged 3.9 yards/carry the last 2 seasons is a good move. Low risk move? Sure, but I'd personally prefer to keep my 6th round pick and gamble on finding someone just as good that will at least be under your control for 4 years.
Is he really a better RB than Gallman? There's some value in knowing he can physically handle a full season's workload, but Gallman's a much better receiving back with arguably more upside running wise too (granted that upside is likely because we haven't seen what he can/can't do like Howard).
How is Howard better than Ajayi? Or even Crowell? Two guys that could've been signed without giving up compensation (i.e. draft picks).
C'mon - have a look at the hit rate on 6th or 7th round picks. They're lottery tickets.
Ajayi and Crowell would have both cost them cap space, which the Eagles are thin on. Howard's a rental, and the price was a pick that generally doesn't yield a useful player.
And that's without considering that maybe Howard will be better in Philly than he was in Chicago, where their OL was putrid.
For those comparing him to Gallman - why? I don't see anyone suggesting the Giants should have signed him, and Gallman was a 4th round pick. They gave up nothing for Howard, and shouldn't have a hard time recouping their investment unless he totally stinks or ends up injured.
He's pretty bad. Also keep in mind that while his catch% has gone up, he went from almost 3 targets/game his rookie season to barley 1 per game last season.
Link - ( New Window )
Funny how even as the returns for these players continue to come in, it always seems like people assume team should have had better options.
From my perspective, I find it especially peculiar that NFL GMs value their own picks so highly, but the trade return on players who have already been drafted is considerably lower.
I understand that there's often less upside with a player who is already in the league, but there's also less downside (usually). And a draft pick comes with a signing bonus (and dead money if they end up being a bust), whereas a player who is already under contract carries less cap risk due to no amortized signing bonus and/or more flexibility to restructure the contract.
In Howard's case, I get that he's basically a fungible asset, but at RB, that's not such a bad thing. And I know he only has one year left, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. The Eagles will almost certainly let him walk after this season and will probably recoup a compensatory pick for him that ends up being basically equal to what they gave up in this trade. So they get a year of cheap RB production in a contract year in exchange for kicking a 6th round draft pick two years into the future.
Trading mid/late draft picks for veteran players is one of the greatest market inefficiencies in NFL roster construction, IMO. I'm glad Gettleman appears to be an active participant in the trade market, though I hope he'll be more of a buyer than a seller once the roster reaches some level of stability.
C'mon - have a look at the hit rate on 6th or 7th round picks. They're lottery tickets.
Ajayi and Crowell would have both cost them cap space, which the Eagles are thin on. Howard's a rental, and the price was a pick that generally doesn't yield a useful player.
And that's without considering that maybe Howard will be better in Philly than he was in Chicago, where their OL was putrid.
For those comparing him to Gallman - why? I don't see anyone suggesting the Giants should have signed him, and Gallman was a 4th round pick. They gave up nothing for Howard, and shouldn't have a hard time recouping their investment unless he totally stinks or ends up injured.
Crowell signed a 1 yr deal. Haven't seen the numbers yet, but I'd be surprised if it breaks $2M.
Gallman was brought up because he's a mid/late round RB with a limited ceiling. He's one of dozens of guys around the league that likely could've matched (or exceeded) Howard's production last season.
Again, it was a low risk move for the Eagles, but I don't think it makes them any closer to a SB contender.
probably because the Eagles own us...
F*ck the Eagles.
Lesser of two evils. Pretty simple. The Eagles are like Tie Domi. But when Tie Domi takes on Hitler, you root for Domi.
Quote:
From top to bottom. I'm still pissed that we had people on this f*cking website rooting for 'em over the Pats. I entered this world with them never winning a Super Bowl & wanted to leave it with them still ringless.
F*ck the Eagles.
Lesser of two evils. Pretty simple. The Eagles are like Tie Domi. But when Tie Domi takes on Hitler, you root for Domi.
"Disgusting."