Love the player - would hate it @ 6. Poor value. There will be a better defensive player on the board there or a QB.
Take the best player on the board or a QB we really believe in @ 6 and if we're that big on Hockenson, move up a few spots from 17 to get him closer to the middle of the round.
I cannot get past what DG and PS said post season - the defense is broken and needs to be fixed. Not advocating anything but BPA, but unless it is a QB, the Giants are taking a big DL or OL at #6.
He would be a great addition, if he is the highest ranked player, and all the premier defensive players are gone, why not him? The only people who throw remotes are idiots in love with their own ideas, we are amateurs, we discuss and we think we know a lot more then we do, but the bottom line is we could care less who the picks are as long as it leads to the Giants becoming a really good team. Once the draft is over, our favorite players are the ones we drafted.
A great player is a great player regardless of where you draft him.
I don't disagree - but haven't you maintained that Barkley was a mistake? How can you use this logic and then simultaneously call Barkley the wrong pick?
Is the wrong p[ick if you think Darnold is going to be a franchise QB. If you are not sold on Darnold then Barkley is a great pick. We don't know who is right, only idiots claim to be right at this point. let's talk in 5 or 10 years on that decision, then we can talk based on fact, instead of ego and bravado.
Lots of players can play Barkley's position at a high level. We passed on some excellent prospects at more important positions to take Barkley. I love Barkley, but that's just the truth.
Who are we going to be passing on to take Hockenson at 6? No one, IMO, at the level of Darnold, Chubb, or Nelson.
12 personnel was also a more efficient package in the passing game in 2018 - a full yard per attempt higher than 11 personnel. Hockenson would be a fantastic fit next to Engram and Ellison, as well as improving our ability to run block.
I think we're going to be passing on a really good defensive player if we take Hockenson @ 6 - and you could certainly argue that a plus edge rusher carries more value than a two way TE.
I woudn't pass on someone like Josh Allen to take Hockenson.
What I would do, is try to move up from 17 to get him closer to the middle of the round - where I think his actual value is more accurate.
I definitely think you're leaving a better player on the board if you take Hockenson 6th.
there aren't 5 players in this draft better than Hockenson, and I do believe that his position can be highly impactful if he's deployed well...I especially think he's a great for for the Giants.
I also wonder if teams are starting to come around to the idea that the quarterbacks in this draft aren't great, which could see someone like Allen off the board.
Drafting a qb does not make the Giants better, drafting a TE #6 Â
needs for the Giants on the offense. Recall that ELI loves TEs as receivers especially big ones. Could happen if DG passes on a QB at #6 and does not see greatness potential in any of the other defensive talents available. Think NE has him in their sights if he is the real deal. MO.
I'm not sure how you can call Barkley's position ineffectual. Especially at the level he plays it.
I can see adding Zeitler and Hockenson actually add a ton of value to the right side of the offense, even if we have to stay with Wheeler. Regardless of how the draft falls, I don't care about the positions and positional value.... take the best player on your board ALWAYS.
We don't need him, I wouldn't take him at #36 let alone #6 Â
WITH JUST ONE COMPLETE TIGHT END IN THE 2019 DRAFT CLASS, TEAMS MIGHT DOUBLE UP TO FILL THEIR DRAFT NEEDS
Ah, the endless search for the complete tight end. As a member of the Mackey Award selection committee, I jumped on the "Dallas Clark Bandwagon" to hail the exploits of Iowa's T.J. Hockenson, who won the coveted award. Still, Clark, myself and others, especially the GMs, realize that as that song verse says, "the bottom drops out" after Hockenson. Why? Too many one-dimensional types, as glorified receivers take center stage here. However, a physical blocker is emerging as a valid receiving option also - Mississippi's Dawson Knox. Here is Paul Crane and Dave-Te's take on this year's tight end class.
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/17476681
NFL Draft Overview - Tight Ends
Paul Crane and super scout Dave-Te' Thomas look at the tight ends in this year's draft. One Thomas calls the best offensive player in this draft, others could become very productive, including a super sleeper who went to college for water polo not football. Teams most interested in several players, including one who could change the dynamics of the 1st round.
www.spreaker.com
Would anybody go back in time
SirLoinOfBeef : 3:17 pm : link : reply
knowing what they know now and pick Gronkowski at 6?
Are you kidding me? No one can guarantee he is another Gronk.....what we need, is to build by filling holes of serious need.....TE is not as serious as other positions were are truly lacking Talent...
help Wheeler? It's 3rd and long, you going to keep a TE in to help Wheeler? Get a replacement for wheeler...
Well duh, you always look to improve every spot but sometimes you have to roll with what you got (as we have seen for several years)... but you can't tell me a good RG and TE doesn't help that side of the OL tremendously.
Would anybody go back in time
SirLoinOfBeef : 3:17 pm : link : reply
knowing what they know now and pick Gronkowski at 6?
Are you kidding me? No one can guarantee he is another Gronk.....what we need, is to build by filling holes of serious need.....TE is not as serious as other positions were are truly lacking Talent...
Of course nobody knows. However, a HOF player is a HOF player regardless of position. Now if you believe either Sweat/Gary/Oliver can be a HOF player tats fine with me too.
help Wheeler? It's 3rd and long, you going to keep a TE in to help Wheeler? Get a replacement for wheeler...
Are you serious? One can argue the best value with the elite talent available on defense vs a TE at 6, but he would absolutely help the offense as a major weapon and he sure as hell helps the oline immensely.
If Eli had Whitten we could have won more SBs . Eli loves TE as safety valve WRs just like ROMO did. They destroyed us in so many games. Time we got him one even at #6. Eli has shown an affinity for TEs and made some very ordinary ones look pretty good. Would not mind that pick at all.
If we really think a receiving/blocking TE is a real need - and I'm not sold, but I'll play along - then stay patient and take Irv Smith in the second round. He's also a really good player. Maybe not Hockenson, but damn close.
So we could still get a quality defender at #6 and snag Smith in the second round. Again, I'm playing along...
So he'd be the pick if the guy wasn't full of empty platitudes. And before I get attacked I like DG and find him entertaining but I think people take what he is saying like total gospel. I believe he is very good at manipulating the media.
If we really think a receiving/blocking TE is a real need - and I'm not sold, but I'll play along - then stay patient and take Irv Smith in the second round. He's also a really good player. Maybe not Hockenson, but damn close.
So we could still get a quality defender at #6 and snag Smith in the second round. Again, I'm playing along...
Good argument but a solid two way TE is a wise move for this Giant team. After the first round maybe.
blocker, but not special at either area. I agree that Irv Smith is in the same vicinity as Hockenson talent wise, although he may not be there at 37. My guess is that both players will go at the end of the first round or the beginning of the 2nd.
Big Irv will be a better receiving TE than Hockenson, but Hockenson is a better, more polished blocker.
Irv is going to be like Howard - he's going to need a little time to develop his game in the NFL. I don't think he's ready to cook right out of the gates.
Excellent prospect, though - and potential to be really good. I was definitely a believer in Howard - I really wanted him for NYG - and you finally saw what TB saw this season before his unfortunate injury. Howard was held back by Hurts in the passing game - Irv was more able to showcase his ability as a pass catcher because Tagovailoa was so superior @ QB.
and not that good at that dimension, he is expendable. Add to it that he has the stink of Jerry, as JT said, he should rent not buy. With Rhett being a possible cap casualty, we have no one at TE besides Simonson. Hock would be a great pick. I just don't think at #6. Trade with Denver, assuming Lock is sitting there at #6, and take Hock at 10.
He has to be considered unless you love a QB. If white is also gone with Murray he has to be considered strongly or move back cause someone else will before Jacksonville.
A two way tight end would be a huge addition to this ELI led offense. ELI loves TEs as escape valve receivers ( like Romo always had with Whiten),. Give him that weapon sit back and watch the results. Do not se that move early but ELI has made some pretty ordinary TEs look good. Get him one you have the picks
Take the best player on the board or a QB we really believe in @ 6 and if we're that big on Hockenson, move up a few spots from 17 to get him closer to the middle of the round.
But all 4 would be embedded in the wall....
No character concerns or red flags off the field. So I believe he has to be in the conversation at 6
I cannot get past what DG and PS said post season - the defense is broken and needs to be fixed. Not advocating anything but BPA, but unless it is a QB, the Giants are taking a big DL or OL at #6.
I don't disagree - but haven't you maintained that Barkley was a mistake? How can you use this logic and then simultaneously call Barkley the wrong pick?
Doesn't really make sense.
Who are we going to be passing on to take Hockenson at 6? No one, IMO, at the level of Darnold, Chubb, or Nelson.
12 personnel was also a more efficient package in the passing game in 2018 - a full yard per attempt higher than 11 personnel. Hockenson would be a fantastic fit next to Engram and Ellison, as well as improving our ability to run block.
We need a RT/CB more than we need a TE....
I woudn't pass on someone like Josh Allen to take Hockenson.
What I would do, is try to move up from 17 to get him closer to the middle of the round - where I think his actual value is more accurate.
I definitely think you're leaving a better player on the board if you take Hockenson 6th.
I also wonder if teams are starting to come around to the idea that the quarterbacks in this draft aren't great, which could see someone like Allen off the board.
I can see adding Zeitler and Hockenson actually add a ton of value to the right side of the offense, even if we have to stay with Wheeler. Regardless of how the draft falls, I don't care about the positions and positional value.... take the best player on your board ALWAYS.
Ah, the endless search for the complete tight end. As a member of the Mackey Award selection committee, I jumped on the "Dallas Clark Bandwagon" to hail the exploits of Iowa's T.J. Hockenson, who won the coveted award. Still, Clark, myself and others, especially the GMs, realize that as that song verse says, "the bottom drops out" after Hockenson. Why? Too many one-dimensional types, as glorified receivers take center stage here. However, a physical blocker is emerging as a valid receiving option also - Mississippi's Dawson Knox. Here is Paul Crane and Dave-Te's take on this year's tight end class.
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/17476681
NFL Draft Overview - Tight Ends
Paul Crane and super scout Dave-Te' Thomas look at the tight ends in this year's draft. One Thomas calls the best offensive player in this draft, others could become very productive, including a super sleeper who went to college for water polo not football. Teams most interested in several players, including one who could change the dynamics of the 1st round.
www.spreaker.com
SirLoinOfBeef : 3:17 pm : link : reply
knowing what they know now and pick Gronkowski at 6?
Are you kidding me? No one can guarantee he is another Gronk.....what we need, is to build by filling holes of serious need.....TE is not as serious as other positions were are truly lacking Talent...
Well duh, you always look to improve every spot but sometimes you have to roll with what you got (as we have seen for several years)... but you can't tell me a good RG and TE doesn't help that side of the OL tremendously.
SirLoinOfBeef : 3:17 pm : link : reply
knowing what they know now and pick Gronkowski at 6?
Are you kidding me? No one can guarantee he is another Gronk.....what we need, is to build by filling holes of serious need.....TE is not as serious as other positions were are truly lacking Talent...
Of course nobody knows. However, a HOF player is a HOF player regardless of position. Now if you believe either Sweat/Gary/Oliver can be a HOF player tats fine with me too.
Are you serious? One can argue the best value with the elite talent available on defense vs a TE at 6, but he would absolutely help the offense as a major weapon and he sure as hell helps the oline immensely.
I miss Boss... so reliable.
So we could still get a quality defender at #6 and snag Smith in the second round. Again, I'm playing along...
But all 4 would be embedded in the wall....
She's your wife? She's probably confused about a lot of things.
So we could still get a quality defender at #6 and snag Smith in the second round. Again, I'm playing along...
Irv is going to be like Howard - he's going to need a little time to develop his game in the NFL. I don't think he's ready to cook right out of the gates.
Excellent prospect, though - and potential to be really good. I was definitely a believer in Howard - I really wanted him for NYG - and you finally saw what TB saw this season before his unfortunate injury. Howard was held back by Hurts in the passing game - Irv was more able to showcase his ability as a pass catcher because Tagovailoa was so superior @ QB.
Running backs do not produce. Except rushing and receiving yards and touchdowns. Who needs that in football?