Take this for whatever it's worth.
1) Remmers has agreed to terms with the Giants. He cannot pass a physical. Once he can he's signing a 2 yr deal with the Giants. They anticipate he'll be healthy by early May.
2) The giants are interested in Rosen but will not part with one of their top 3 picks. I was told they would offer this years 3 and a future conditional 3. The biggest fear with the Giants is acquiring Rosen is an immediate QB controversy. It would start in OTA's both in the media and locker room. Conversely, a guy like Jones or lock the fans and media will understand needs time to sit.
3) The Giants are going defense with their first pick. Williams will be the pick if he falls (same with allen or bosa) If he's gone the Giants like, in order, White, Burns, Gary.
4) The Giants love Greedy Williams and will take him at 17 if he's on the board.
5) Some free agents they're in contract with. Shane Ray, Mohammad Wilkerson and Danny Shelton. Nothing will happen before the draft.
6) If the giants go offense in the first two rounds it will be a big body WR or a QB. With remmers in the fold the giants will wait til rounds 3 and 4 to bolster their depth.
Flame away
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In comment 14365989 jtgiants said:
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Is lock. The problem is they won't take him at 6 and he probably won't be there at 17. They don't want to trade back up so making it work isn't easy. They want to use there picks to help them win now
This is just as pathetic as not trading for Rosen to avoid a QB controversy. If they think Lock is a franchise QB but won't take him at 6 because they are trying to squeeze one more playoff contending season out of Eli then as others have said, these guys should not be running the Giants.
my sentiments exactly...
what has anybody seen from Eli in the last few years that would indicate he can lead the team back to the playoffs, Eli has shot his wad, its over, move on..
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In comment 14366009 NYG07 said:
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In comment 14365989 jtgiants said:
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Is lock. The problem is they won't take him at 6 and he probably won't be there at 17. They don't want to trade back up so making it work isn't easy. They want to use there picks to help them win now
This is just as pathetic as not trading for Rosen to avoid a QB controversy. If they think Lock is a franchise QB but won't take him at 6 because they are trying to squeeze one more playoff contending season out of Eli then as others have said, these guys should not be running the Giants.
my sentiments exactly...
what has anybody seen from Eli in the last few years that would indicate he can lead the team back to the playoffs, Eli has shot his wad, its over, move on..
when he, like, played pretty darn well in the playoffs?
The Mara's are so out of touch with the fan pulse that they think the McAdoo decision had to do with our undying love for Eli Manning. Wrong. It had to due with Geno Smith starting over Webb. Simple.
I'm tired of being held hostage!!!! Let's move the fuck on.
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In comment 14366356 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 14366009 NYG07 said:
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In comment 14365989 jtgiants said:
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Is lock. The problem is they won't take him at 6 and he probably won't be there at 17. They don't want to trade back up so making it work isn't easy. They want to use there picks to help them win now
This is just as pathetic as not trading for Rosen to avoid a QB controversy. If they think Lock is a franchise QB but won't take him at 6 because they are trying to squeeze one more playoff contending season out of Eli then as others have said, these guys should not be running the Giants.
my sentiments exactly...
what has anybody seen from Eli in the last few years that would indicate he can lead the team back to the playoffs, Eli has shot his wad, its over, move on..
when he, like, played pretty darn well in the playoffs?
That was two years ago, and that team consisted of Eli leading a bottom 5 offense in football and being dragged to the playoffs by a great defense.
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In comment 14366544 giantstock said:
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In comment 14366534 DonnieD89 said:
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as a Physician Assistant and treating Post Concussion Syndrome, I get the concern. I have already made it clear to my son that he is not to play high school football. Everyone is different though, I have can't 100% his father will tell him to quit. On top of that, Rosen comes from a wealthy family and money would not be a major motivating factor. I get why the Giants would not burn a 1st or 2nd rounder on him. It's risk management. You have to ask why he went lower than expected last year in the draft, given the talent he is.
silly. Why play football at all then?
Silly? Take one more hit and see if it is silly. I deal with these folks every day. How would you like to feel photophobia, lack of concentration and focus, chronic headaches, depression, and convergence insufficiency (can't track well with eyes, causing you to see double and experiencing vertigo) on a daily basis? He and the team that invest in him are taking a risk. No one knows, if his father has influence in his decision to stop playing, but his influence maybe present if the opportunity presents.
wow-- talk about avoiding the question?
WHy bother to play if he has your concerns?
I did answer the question. We don’t know what his fathers decision is whether to influence him or not; however, he is a big boy and is able to make his own decisions. You can’t dispute the fact and what the consequences maybe in the future. The Giants are not stupid and why invest in somebody who is a risk. It doesn’t matter what Rosen thinks if he chooses to play football. He is taking a risk. If he has another concussion, he may not be allowed to be back on the field for quite some time. The facts based on studies on concussions are out there. If he takes another hit, you do not know what’s going to happen? Hence, there comes a possible decision by the father after he suffers the symptoms which may be prolong after another hit. Mines do change after such incident. What part of my statement do you not understand? If you choose to ignore science-based evidence with concussions, then you might as well believe that the world is flat. Rosen is taking a chance being on the field with the possibility of another concussion. That’s his decision to take the risk. The Giants would be making a low risk decision if they only want to invest a third rounder. What is so silly about guarding against risk? It’s stupid to put out and burn the 1st to 2nd rounder given these risks.
And that will be 2 1/2 years in the past when he next takes the field.
Eli is an albatross around this franchise's neck at this point.
way of making football decisions?
But they are afraid of giving a 38 year old QB real
competition? Sounds great
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The point - besides the one on top of your head - is that the new asshat said that the Giants were interested in Rosen, but only if the price was right (the two 3rd round picks). jtgiants has said repeatedly that the Giants aren't interested in him at any price for the reasons he gave.
Agree on this point. You just have to remember with these things, many people discussing something with varying exchanges lends itself to interpretation. Things are not always explicit black/white and there is often more than one opinion within organization. A year ago word was there was no clear consensus about QBs. But this point about Eli starting as it relates to Rosen was referenced by both.
In general I tend to take everything with a grain of salt even when I trust the source. And especially on April 1.
The most important part there is that opinions will differ, even within the FO of an organization. At the end of the day there's only 1 person who is the ultimate decision maker. That's the reason why I appreciate the inside information, but also take it for what its worth.
way of making football decisions?
But they are afraid of giving a 38 year old QB real
competition? Sounds great
See Dawg’s Monday reading thread. He absolutely said so as early as 2000.
Last spring I said plenty of times I’d rather go 6-10 (or worse) with a rookie QB than doing so with Eli. I was a huge “pro QB” in the draft guy last year. We went 5-11 with Eli and no successor on the roster. It was a total waste of time. Unless they actually really like and select a QB among the dreck that is this QB crop, we’re probably looking at a similar experience in 2019. Another waste of time.
As far as GM's being stupid or not -- sure overall they can't be completely stupid but they are capable of making stupid decisions, right? Reese didn't address the OLINE and his draft picks over time didn;t pan out. He got fired. SO he made some "stupid decisions," right? Any GM can make stupid decisions, right? SO can DG.
SO in this case because they might pass on Rosen doesn't mean it exonerates them from making being capable of making stupid decisions.
I'd like to think I'm in Matt in SGS's "Eli realist" category, so from that POV I'd like to see them draft a fresh option in the first round and let that player start the year behind Eli and re-evaluate as they go through the season. All 4 seem more mobile than Rosen, which I view as the biggest negative against him, they also all have an extra year of control, and they all seem to have the right mentality. I like all of them over Herbert next year, in a similar general tier to Fromm, and behind Tua who will likely be out of reach anyway. Depending on how the draft board looks I'd most likely want to use the #6 pick on a blue chip defender and then package the #17 if necessary to move for the QB. Though, if 4 QB's go ahead of them in the top 16 there may be a 2nd blue chip player available and perhaps that changes the calculus re: Rosen if the price is reasonable.
Though I also think it's likely the Cards end up getting a first round pick from either the Pats or Chargers if their preferred targets from the draft don't reach them - and also probably what they're hoping for in holding him.
Rosen has a giant chip on his shoulder after he was the 4th QB taken. Can't believe all this talk about being replaced after one year is going to make that any better. He's definitely out to prove he can play. The question is can he?
Interesting stuff.....
Interesting stuff.....
Yup and that would mean less pressure to take a RT at #17.
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Love the Remmers info.....i wanted an experience RT....did not want to live through growing pains of a rookie to get up to speed with the NFL game.
Interesting stuff.....
Yup and that would mean less pressure to take a RT at #17.
Yes and free us to focus on starters for the D
There's no such thing as a "retirement deal".
Because the rational logical take does not fit into the agenda of the Anti-Eli crowd.
"Eli is to blame no matter what" and it's mind boggling to say the least
You're an idiot. IMO.
If Mara and Tisch cannot deal with personality, they should sell the team. Heck, they would probably have a problem with Aaron Rodgers! He has "personality."
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Appreciate the info. I stand by my stance rosen won't be a giant. You are right though. The Giants are playing Eli as long as there in a playoff race. If rosen comes he sits. That would create a controversy they don't want. That said they aren't in love with him and also are wary of his personality would fit in NY. Despite people pushing back on this it is a HUGE issue
If Mara and Tisch cannot deal with personality, they should sell the team. Heck, they would probably have a problem with Aaron Rodgers! He has "personality."
They do! not sure about Tisch, but it's my contention that the Mara's live on the deck of the Titanic! Both figuratively & literally... Rich mans game... yeah, I am jealous of the fantasy life.. but pissed that its no matter but a bruised ego... and not much else.
Which means they know the players will be able to tell that Rosen is better.
I did answer the question. We don’t know what his fathers decision is whether to influence him or not; however, he is a big boy and is able to make his own decisions. You can’t dispute the fact and what the consequences maybe in the future. The Giants are not stupid and why invest in somebody who is a risk. It doesn’t matter what Rosen thinks if he chooses to play football. He is taking a risk. If he has another concussion, he may not be allowed to be back on the field for quite some time. The facts based on studies on concussions are out there. If he takes another hit, you do not know what’s going to happen? Hence, there comes a possible decision by the father after he suffers the symptoms which may be prolong after another hit. Mines do change after such incident. What part of my statement do you not understand? If you choose to ignore science-based evidence with concussions, then you might as well believe that the world is flat. Rosen is taking a chance being on the field with the possibility of another concussion. That’s his decision to take the risk. The Giants would be making a low risk decision if they only want to invest a third rounder. What is so silly about guarding against risk? It’s stupid to put out and burn the 1st to 2nd rounder given these risks.
Well, then being in the field you know there are varying degrees of concussions. Players routinely get pulled from a game on Sunday and are cleared by Thursday or the following week. Or you can have a beauty like Clint Frazier of the Yankees had where it took 6 months just for symptoms to go away after what seemed mild contact with a chain link fence.
While you are right that the next one might be the end of his career(it is the same for any player) and those who have had concussions are more likely to have another, he may never get another one. But I do agree it is part of the process of evaluating whether he should be the future QB of the Giants. I also wonder what percentage of players have had a concussion and played through without it being detected? I'd bet over 80% had had them.
The Giants offense may be more than a "dink and dunk" if the OL is above average.
As for the draft, best player available regardless of position.
If our first 3 picks are all NFL starters and flourishing at some point of 2019 I'd be ecstatic!
The Giants offense may be more than a "dink and dunk" if the OL is above average.
As for the draft, best player available regardless of position.
If our first 3 picks are all NFL starters and flourishing at some point of 2019 I'd be ecstatic!
Exactly. Big guys with bad backs don't get better. While we all want RT to be addressed, to rely on players signed from the ambulatory squad is too much of a gamble. Many were eager to sign Daryl Williams who spent last season with on IR with a knee only to learn that he obviously wasn't fully recovered as he had to settle for a 1yr deal with Carolina.
Enough with the stopgaps. Get the OL fixed with a young, capable RT in the draft.
First of all - he shares what he believes is the case on this thread yesterday - that Rosen will not be a NYG.
Then, today he posts that although many fans may not like it (including admittedly himself), the discussions about trading for Rosen are continuing and real.
Together it seems clear that he's reporting not what he WANTS to be true, but what he's hearing and believes to be true.
Just want to make that clear in case Rosen does end up here and someone tries to make a case that jtgiants was wrong and therefore not legit. If anything these two things taken together show the opposite.
First of all - he shares what he believes is the case on this thread yesterday - that Rosen will not be a NYG.
Then, today he posts that although many fans may not like it (including admittedly himself), the discussions about trading for Rosen are continuing and real.
Together it seems clear that he's reporting not what he WANTS to be true, but what he's hearing and believes to be true.
Just want to make that clear in case Rosen does end up here and someone tries to make a case that jtgiants was wrong and therefore not legit. If anything these two things taken together show the opposite.
I may have read that wrong, but I took JT's comment about the trade to be him saying that the Giants were definitively not trading for Rosen but the other trade JT has been hinting at for a few weeks is still a real possibility. It's entirely possible that I misinterpreted that though.
Poor widdle ewi
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combined with jtgiants tidbits thread should help prove that he's a legit insider.
First of all - he shares what he believes is the case on this thread yesterday - that Rosen will not be a NYG.
Then, today he posts that although many fans may not like it (including admittedly himself), the discussions about trading for Rosen are continuing and real.
Together it seems clear that he's reporting not what he WANTS to be true, but what he's hearing and believes to be true.
Just want to make that clear in case Rosen does end up here and someone tries to make a case that jtgiants was wrong and therefore not legit. If anything these two things taken together show the opposite.
I may have read that wrong, but I took JT's comment about the trade to be him saying that the Giants were definitively not trading for Rosen but the other trade JT has been hinting at for a few weeks is still a real possibility. It's entirely possible that I misinterpreted that though.
jtgiants and JonC are both pretty certain Rosen is not in the cards.
I think it is the wrong not go after Rosen, but I don't make millions evaluating NFL QBs.
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I may have read that wrong, but I took JT's comment about the trade to be him saying that the Giants were definitively not trading for Rosen but the other trade JT has been hinting at for a few weeks is still a real possibility. It's entirely possible that I misinterpreted that though.
I retract what I said - I actually was the one who misread what was stated. I believe I understood him correctly the first time I read it, but when I was going back through the OP on his thread re-read it and misunderstood his position.
You are correct - thanks for pointing that out.
Too many holes on defense and even with drafted players on defense they will still be rookies. Playoffs are stretch.
The Giants offense may be more than a "dink and dunk" if the OL is above average.
As for the draft, best player available regardless of position.
If our first 3 picks are all NFL starters and flourishing at some point of 2019 I'd be ecstatic!
Yes I'm OK with short get up our D and a big physical receiver for SB and Eli, and hope the chips fall where they may on the oline, hopefully Wan find gems like Diehl, Ohara and McKenzie again, and I'm hopeful our current FO can.
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And when we finish sub .500 again next year, what’s the plan?
Then the blame will be shifted to the Giants depleted receiving corps.
Giants have never really struggled offensively due to problems with the wr corps. It’s always been the OL and defense that have done the giants in since 2012. Literally, always.
When that “excuse” runs out talk to me. Until then, the Eli detractors who insist Eli hasn’t been sabotaged by the shittiest OL and defense since 2013 do not have a leg to stand on other than going with the lazy media driven Eli narrative.
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In comment 14366433 The_Boss said:
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And when we finish sub .500 again next year, what’s the plan?
Then the blame will be shifted to the Giants depleted receiving corps.
Giants have never really struggled offensively due to problems with the wr corps. It’s always been the OL and defense that have done the giants in since 2012. Literally, always.
When that “excuse” runs out talk to me. Until then, the Eli detractors who insist Eli hasn’t been sabotaged by the shittiest OL and defense since 2013 do not have a leg to stand on other than going with the lazy media driven Eli narrative.
I don't think a single person has suggested that Eli hasn't been saddled with an awful OL and a porous defense throughout most of the second half of his career. Creating a strawman doesn't do you any favors here - everyone knows the hand Eli has been dealt.
That does not, however, make Eli any younger. It does not erase the years of abuse he has taken behind those abysmal offensive lines. It does not eliminate the concerns that he may now be conditioned to be in survival mode rather than that tough SOB who withstood incredible duress against San Francisco on the way to SB XLVI. It's not inconceivable that while the Giants pissed away years of Eli's career, he himself also began to decline physically. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts.
It's not a lazy media-driven narrative any more than your POV is a lazy Giants-can-do-no-wrong perspective. There are several posters on this board who know quite a bit about football and don't need the media to feed them an opinion - those posters, from what I can tell, land all over the spectrum as it relates to Eli. None of them are getting their opinions from the media, IMO.
You can tell yourself that the questions surrounding Eli and this franchise are simply a figment of the media's imagination, and if that makes you feel better, go for it. But you don't get to accuse others of being lazy and/or allowing the media to think for them. Not when your own posts are of a one-note variety and can't even summon the energy to consider the validity of a countering viewpoint. You want to talk about lazy? There's nothing lazier than locking yourself into your own opinion and dismissing all others solely on the basis of wanting so badly to believe in one and only one possibility.
Think Rosen will be injured and retired before his next contract ( probably concussed is my guess). Hope not, and hope he wins many SBs before then .
IMO Jones clearly far and away a better prospect than the Davis Webb/Kyle Lauletta's of the world - and I suspect multiple teams beyond the Giants would agree with that and take him if they have the chance in the top 20. I think it's easy to see some things that are better about his resume than certain guys above and some things he's not as good at.
The list of first round QB's above play many different styles and have had a wide range results. Some looked like busts and now look like steals. Some looked like steals day 1 and will eventually regress to busts. The 2 most important ingredients in a QB are the mental side and the system fit - if Shurmur in particular feels Jones is his guy terrific.