There has been a lot of speculation that he is in play for the Giants at #6. According to some asshats he's a top 6 player for the Giants. He certainly checks all of the measurable boxes. 6'4" plus, check. 4.58 forty, check. 277 lbs, check. And he checks other boxes too. Splash plays in college? Check. Does he get you drooling about what he
could be? Check.
In short, if you just look at paper and remember the big plays then he is a sure thing.
But what about the rest of the tape? Well, that's where we start to run into problems. So let's do that below.
And to put a disclaimer out there, no, I'm not saying Gary is a
bad prospect. I'm saying he's overrated. And more specifically, I'm saying he should not be our draft pick at #6. Don't forget, Flowers would have been a great 3rd round pick. He was dripping with potential. Being drafted later could have made him realize he needed to accept coaching. He would have felt less pressure. He would not have had to come in the first year and he could have learned.
Here is a highlight reel of Gary. I repeat, this is a highlight reel for Gary. What do you see:
"The Most Dynamic Defensive End in the COUNTRY"
I'll tell you what I see, and I suspect you see the same thing. That's a horrible highlight reel. I see a player capitalizing on great coverage from his secondary, cleaning up after pressure from other teammates, and making obvious plays when he's not blocked where his HWS look good. And again, I stress these are his
highlights.
So what do you see when you watch the tape? A lot worse. Let's look:
Gary vs. ND
I see an athlete without football technique. I see someone who thinks their strength and athleticism are enough to be great. He gets stuck on defenders. Rarely disrupts the line of scrimmage. Get's lost taking too long to process the play and finds himself out of position. And most importantly, someone who struggling to get to the quarterback. In short, I see the Ereck Flowers of defensive ends.
Watch the play at
1:58. He has outside contain responsibility on an option play and not only does not process the option in time to crash the play, totally freezes and instead find himself out of position to make a play, and the quarterback beats him to the edge.
Now watch the play at
3:54. Another run play. Line crashes toward left and execute a quasi-trap of him with a tight end. Instead of doing any stack and shed of the tight end he drops his head, losing sight of the RB who runs right by him for a first down. This is not what a top 10 player does when being blocked by a TE. This is not a playmaker.
Regarding pass rush, there's no need for me to spend time curating your viewing experience on this tape - watch 5 plays anywhere in there and tell me you see anything resembling something besides lame attempts at bullrushes or running fully around someone without any hint of a move, dip, or bend. I will give you one play though. This is what solidifies the Ereck Flowers comparison. See here:
6:33 One, it is such a typical example what to expect from him when rushing the passer; and two, it shows him rushing from a 2-point stance which is where he could at least occasionally be in a Bettcher defense.
Now let's look at another tape. Let's look at his Rutgers tape. ND has fantastic tackles so it would be a fair to raise that the above tape is cherry picking an example when he was going up against great competition. That would be wrong, but it would be fair. Unless you think NFL tackles are worse than ND's.
So here's the tape:
Gary vs. Rutgers
The results speak for themselves:
0:01 First play of game. Puts head down, doesn't see fake, goes in opposite direction of the play.
0:23 Blocked easily by TE. This is a match-up he needs to dominate.
0:41 Gives up half way through his rush. He got confused if he was bull-rushing or making a move.
0:47 Dominated at POA by the LT and washed out.
1:28 Last man to fire out of stance. Handled at POA easily. Play is to other side but he creates no disruption regardless.
1:37 Next play. Last man out of stance again. And again handled easily at POA without creating any disruption.
1:45 Next play. Last man out of stance again. Defeats the whiffed block by OL but immediately freezes and running back goes by for nice gain.
So when considering Gary let's just remember this - he had 3.5 sacks all of last year. And in the last two years he had less than 10 sacks combined. In what world should we select a pass rusher in the top 10 who isn't good at rushing the passer? Players in the top 10 should be making an immediate impact. Gary has potential with his unique HWS, but he doesn't have production and his tape, as we just saw, is bad.
Being a bad top 10 prospect does not itself lend itself to a comparison to Flowers. Being a bust in the top 10 does not either make an automatic Flowers comparison. Rashan Gary is the Ereck Flowers of defensive ends because he has no technique, is sloppy, and relies on his perceived strengths to get by. I won't say he rejects coaching because I have no idea, maybe they're just not teaching anything at Michigan! I mean, I doubt that, but who knows! What we do know is what we see on the tape. And Rashan Gary is not worthy of our #6 pick.
Also, for the record, I have no idea
This is the smartest thing you’ve said all thread. Great place to end this.
You posted the same stuff under Goblue6599. Same posting style. Same format. Same hatred for Gary. That username is now banned(which you already know.)
And I suspect this one will be soon too.
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Anymore.
Reese would go with Montez Sweat who has even better measurables.
Reese did hit on a few good players with his first rounders. For as much fault lies with him for the current state of things you can't take that away from him. HWS do matter. His problem was he got too carried away with potential and lost sight of football IQ and LTI.
And even though your headline is something I find ludicrous... I’ll respectfully disagree with your opinion and site the other threads why I believe Gary will be an impactful player.
Again. My apologies.
And even though your headline is something I find ludicrous... I’ll respectfully disagree with your opinion and site the other threads why I believe Gary will be an impactful player.
Again. My apologies.
I respect your apologizing. Thank you.
How do you feel about Bush? I am excited for the prospect of him at 17.
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hard to know about Gary. In a way, he's like Jones in that both were hindered by something beyond their control. With Gary it was his injury, and the fact that Michigan didn't use him correctly. (Houston and Oregon also didn't use Oliver and Jenks correctly either.) With Jones, it was his OL and drops by his receivers.
But Gary only had 9.5 sacks in 34 games, and Jones lacks arm strength.
I won't hate Gary at #6, but would prefer Oliver.
Oliver is on my list of preferences for the pick too. He changes the LOS on every play.
Can you clarify what you mean by UM not using Gary properly? How so?
Dave Te seems to think Giants are not high on Oliver's fit in our defense.
If that's the case I really hope they take Sweat, Burns or White if the top 4 go Murray, Bosa , Quinnen and Allen.
You might think he is over-rated, and I can understand that, but he's going to be drafted within the first ten picks, and maybe the first five. We will wait and see how it plays out. I think his best football is ahead of him. He is a dedicated athlete who will grow, improve and compete.
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In comment 14375907 AcidTest said:
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hard to know about Gary. In a way, he's like Jones in that both were hindered by something beyond their control. With Gary it was his injury, and the fact that Michigan didn't use him correctly. (Houston and Oregon also didn't use Oliver and Jenks correctly either.) With Jones, it was his OL and drops by his receivers.
But Gary only had 9.5 sacks in 34 games, and Jones lacks arm strength.
I won't hate Gary at #6, but would prefer Oliver.
Oliver is on my list of preferences for the pick too. He changes the LOS on every play.
Can you clarify what you mean by UM not using Gary properly? How so?
Dave Te seems to think Giants are not high on Oliver's fit in our defense.
If that's the case I really hope they take Sweat, Burns or White if the top 4 go Murray, Bosa , Quinnen and Allen.
He may not be a great fit. And I can't speak to his attitude which is an unknown for most of us. But I do know that you make room for amazingly talented people and find roles for them - i.e. you coach better.
Regardless I am with you in White. He would be special. I also think Clelin Ferrell will go top higher than people expect and I would not rule him out at 6.
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I wouldn't touch him with either of our first round picks.
How do you feel about Bush? I am excited for the prospect of him at 17.
I would run to the podium for Bush at #17
You might think he is over-rated, and I can understand that, but he's going to be drafted within the first ten picks, and maybe the first five. We will wait and see how it plays out. I think his best football is ahead of him. He is a dedicated athlete who will grow, improve and compete.
The argument I made to compare him to Flowers was lack of technique, sloppy play, and reliance on HWS. The tape I provided also shows that he is not particularly effective at being disruptive.
If you think that is "borderline ridiculous" then use the tape to show how I am wrong and that he has technique, is not sloppy, and does not make whatever plays he does because of reliance HWS. Show me that he learned something from his coaches at Michigan.
I would remind you as well that Flowers went #9. I remind you that not because I think you forgot but instead to raise the point that even seasoned and highly compensated NFL talent evaluators routinely overvalue players with this type of potential, they have for decades, and the mere fact that he may go top 10 does not refute the analysis of the tape I've put forward.
Now the counter-argument to my point is one that I readily admit - he does have talent. He is clearly a top 100 player in this year's draft. His HWS is special and if he can develop that he can be dominant. I'm not disputing that. But the mere fact his technique is this undeveloped raises the risk of his ever attaining the success he could be capable. Why has he never developed basic techniques? Why does he not have any pass rush moves? Why cannot he not stack and shed tight ends eith ease? These points raise his risk level tremendously. It also increases his length-til-impact. And we need immediate impact from our top picks. We simply cannot afford to take on this level of risk nor cannot we wait.
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He is a disrupter. He will collapse the pocket. He needs to learn some pass rush moves, something he clearly didn't get at Michigan. The comparison to Ereck Flowers is borderline ridiculous.
You might think he is over-rated, and I can understand that, but he's going to be drafted within the first ten picks, and maybe the first five. We will wait and see how it plays out. I think his best football is ahead of him. He is a dedicated athlete who will grow, improve and compete.
The argument I made to compare him to Flowers was lack of technique, sloppy play, and reliance on HWS. The tape I provided also shows that he is not particularly effective at being disruptive.
If you think that is "borderline ridiculous" then use the tape to show how I am wrong and that he has technique, is not sloppy, and does not make whatever plays he does because of reliance HWS. Show me that he learned something from his coaches at Michigan.
I would remind you as well that Flowers went #9. I remind you that not because I think you forgot but instead to raise the point that even seasoned and highly compensated NFL talent evaluators routinely overvalue players with this type of potential, they have for decades, and the mere fact that he may go top 10 does not refute the analysis of the tape I've put forward.
Now the counter-argument to my point is one that I readily admit - he does have talent. He is clearly a top 100 player in this year's draft. His HWS is special and if he can develop that he can be dominant. I'm not disputing that. But the mere fact his technique is this undeveloped raises the risk of his ever attaining the success he could be capable. Why has he never developed basic techniques? Why does he not have any pass rush moves? Why cannot he not stack and shed tight ends eith ease? These points raise his risk level tremendously. It also increases his length-til-impact. And we need immediate impact from our top picks. We simply cannot afford to take on this level of risk nor cannot we wait.
Just found more videos that break down his lack of pass rush ability. These are short but excellent.
Gary - ( New Window )
Oliver and Bush in round 1 is ideal. Both would step in and start from day 1 and we need both a 5 Tech and an ILB to play next to Ogletree. Would love a OLB as well.
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The Giants had pretty good success with Justin Tuck and Corey Webster by looking at prior years. But if a guy is hurt and doesn't have good performance and good tape from before the injury, how do you know what he might have been without the injury?
Appreciate the comment, here's my response:
(1) Tuck and Webster were 3rd and 2nd round picks respectively. The risk is exponentially greater when talking about the #6 pick in the draft.
(2) I provide analysis of the 2017 tape above. It shows the same issues.
(3) As I went out of my way to say in my original analysis, I'm not saying he's a bad prospect. I'm saying he's not the right pick at #6.
As for what the tape shows, I can't imagine the Giants' scouts rate it higher than BBIers do. They are looking at the same tape.
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In comment 14375939 81_Great_Dane said:
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The Giants had pretty good success with Justin Tuck and Corey Webster by looking at prior years. But if a guy is hurt and doesn't have good performance and good tape from before the injury, how do you know what he might have been without the injury?
Appreciate the comment, here's my response:
(1) Tuck and Webster were 3rd and 2nd round picks respectively. The risk is exponentially greater when talking about the #6 pick in the draft.
(2) I provide analysis of the 2017 tape above. It shows the same issues.
(3) As I went out of my way to say in my original analysis, I'm not saying he's a bad prospect. I'm saying he's not the right pick at #6.
Sorry, didn't mean to contradict anything you are saying. I'm saying the "He was hurt in 2018" argument only means you have to look at prior years' tape to see what he's capable of. If that tape isn't great, then you can't assume the injury is what held his performance back in 2018.
As for what the tape shows, I can't imagine the Giants' scouts rate it higher than BBIers do. They are looking at the same tape.
Of course, no worries. I trust you're right about the tape. The concerns the rise are that teams think they can 'coach up' these players and that they will miss out on great picks and allow other teams to snag them. Teams fall prey to looking silly by missing out on these types of players every year it seems. FOMO is real :)
I think Gettleman is more focused on college production. And with those early first-round picks (like Barkley) he wants both production and upside. He wants greatness -- as he should, IMO.
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It’s like people can’t read on BBI
HE PLAYED WITH A SEPARATED SHOUKDER ALL YEAR WHICH THE DOCTORS TOLD HIM NOT TO PLAY!!!!!!
Comparing him to Ereck flowers who was fat and lazy and don’t give a shit is the worst comparison I ever saw.
Nice job using all caps. I hear if you just use all caps you don't have to actually have evidence to back up your point of view, people will just believe you. Are you a screamer in real life too?
Dep is absolutely right, and some of the plays you cherry picked, I’m not exactly sure how it puts Gary in a bad light?
Comparing him to Ereck Flowers is by far and away one of the worst comparisons I’ve ever seen. Flowers was not a physical marvel, wasn’t particularly fast, and his tape wasn’t so great either.
People somehow talk about Gary’s motor, yet he had almost twice as many tackles as Bosa in the last two years.
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In comment 14375877 dep026 said:
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It’s like people can’t read on BBI
HE PLAYED WITH A SEPARATED SHOUKDER ALL YEAR WHICH THE DOCTORS TOLD HIM NOT TO PLAY!!!!!!
Comparing him to Ereck flowers who was fat and lazy and don’t give a shit is the worst comparison I ever saw.
Nice job using all caps. I hear if you just use all caps you don't have to actually have evidence to back up your point of view, people will just believe you. Are you a screamer in real life too?
Dep is absolutely right, and some of the plays you cherry picked, I’m not exactly sure how it puts Gary in a bad light?
Comparing him to Ereck Flowers is by far and away one of the worst comparisons I’ve ever seen. Flowers was not a physical marvel, wasn’t particularly fast, and his tape wasn’t so great either.
People somehow talk about Gary’s motor, yet he had almost twice as many tackles as Bosa in the last two years.
Show the plays that prove me wrong. I'll be here.
Also, keep in mind, you can't "cherry pick" them, your words, whatever exactly you mean by that in this situation. So come back with dozens of them please, or whatever amount equals not "cherry picking".
+1
Ive went back and forth on him but MM makes a good case. Way too much risk. Tape doesnt show much that translates enough to be worth pick 6. Way too much value elsewhere. Hope one of the 4 slam dunk guys drop to us. Q, Bosa, Allen, White. Might save the Giants from themselves and making another Cedric Jones pick!
If you disagree, here's an idea, get some evidence that supports your view and bring it forward. Then we can discuss.
Or you can just scream and make insults.
He'll take Door 2, thank you very much.
And MM, I broke it down in another thread where in 2017 Michigan had 6 different players record 5 sacks or more and 6 defenders had 10 TFLs or more.
In 2018, where Gary was hurt and everyone's role changed.... it was like 2 guys with 5 or more sacks and 1 with 10 TFL or more.
His injury impacted the whole team. Where as his role/job in 2017 made everyone that much better.
2017 Highlights - ( New Window )
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In comment 14376077 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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He is a disrupter. He will collapse the pocket. He needs to learn some pass rush moves, something he clearly didn't get at Michigan. The comparison to Ereck Flowers is borderline ridiculous.
You might think he is over-rated, and I can understand that, but he's going to be drafted within the first ten picks, and maybe the first five. We will wait and see how it plays out. I think his best football is ahead of him. He is a dedicated athlete who will grow, improve and compete.
The argument I made to compare him to Flowers was lack of technique, sloppy play, and reliance on HWS. The tape I provided also shows that he is not particularly effective at being disruptive.
If you think that is "borderline ridiculous" then use the tape to show how I am wrong and that he has technique, is not sloppy, and does not make whatever plays he does because of reliance HWS. Show me that he learned something from his coaches at Michigan.
I would remind you as well that Flowers went #9. I remind you that not because I think you forgot but instead to raise the point that even seasoned and highly compensated NFL talent evaluators routinely overvalue players with this type of potential, they have for decades, and the mere fact that he may go top 10 does not refute the analysis of the tape I've put forward.
Now the counter-argument to my point is one that I readily admit - he does have talent. He is clearly a top 100 player in this year's draft. His HWS is special and if he can develop that he can be dominant. I'm not disputing that. But the mere fact his technique is this undeveloped raises the risk of his ever attaining the success he could be capable. Why has he never developed basic techniques? Why does he not have any pass rush moves? Why cannot he not stack and shed tight ends eith ease? These points raise his risk level tremendously. It also increases his length-til-impact. And we need immediate impact from our top picks. We simply cannot afford to take on this level of risk nor cannot we wait.
Just found more videos that break down his lack of pass rush ability. These are short but excellent. Gary - ( New Window )
Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing.
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In comment 14376104 MM_in_NYC said:
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In comment 14376077 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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He is a disrupter. He will collapse the pocket. He needs to learn some pass rush moves, something he clearly didn't get at Michigan. The comparison to Ereck Flowers is borderline ridiculous.
You might think he is over-rated, and I can understand that, but he's going to be drafted within the first ten picks, and maybe the first five. We will wait and see how it plays out. I think his best football is ahead of him. He is a dedicated athlete who will grow, improve and compete.
The argument I made to compare him to Flowers was lack of technique, sloppy play, and reliance on HWS. The tape I provided also shows that he is not particularly effective at being disruptive.
If you think that is "borderline ridiculous" then use the tape to show how I am wrong and that he has technique, is not sloppy, and does not make whatever plays he does because of reliance HWS. Show me that he learned something from his coaches at Michigan.
I would remind you as well that Flowers went #9. I remind you that not because I think you forgot but instead to raise the point that even seasoned and highly compensated NFL talent evaluators routinely overvalue players with this type of potential, they have for decades, and the mere fact that he may go top 10 does not refute the analysis of the tape I've put forward.
Now the counter-argument to my point is one that I readily admit - he does have talent. He is clearly a top 100 player in this year's draft. His HWS is special and if he can develop that he can be dominant. I'm not disputing that. But the mere fact his technique is this undeveloped raises the risk of his ever attaining the success he could be capable. Why has he never developed basic techniques? Why does he not have any pass rush moves? Why cannot he not stack and shed tight ends eith ease? These points raise his risk level tremendously. It also increases his length-til-impact. And we need immediate impact from our top picks. We simply cannot afford to take on this level of risk nor cannot we wait.
Just found more videos that break down his lack of pass rush ability. These are short but excellent. Gary - ( New Window )
Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing.
The guy who shows much more natural ability as a pass rusher and not just an athlete is Jaylon Ferguson. Whom the Giants apparently have been high on for a while. Imagine Q.Will at 6 and then Jaylon at 17. Totally transformed DL.
Jaylon Ferguson analysis 4min - ( New Window )
And MM, I broke it down in another thread where in 2017 Michigan had 6 different players record 5 sacks or more and 6 defenders had 10 TFLs or more.
In 2018, where Gary was hurt and everyone's role changed.... it was like 2 guys with 5 or more sacks and 1 with 10 TFL or more.
His injury impacted the whole team. Where as his role/job in 2017 made everyone that much better. 2017 Highlights - ( New Window )
I reviewed 2017 tape above. I don't understand why you having such a hard time with this. Scroll on up and look at it. Gary vs. Florida 2017. It's right there, player.
I re-iterate, I have nothing against Gary. You think I do only because I say he is a top one hundred football player in this draft and that he should not be top 10 - like Ereck Flowers was. That's objective analysis. You need to calm down. Breathe. He's a very nice prospect. Top 100 football players are very nice prospects.
Anyway, so to make your point you've come back here with a highlight tape even though you complained about me "cherry picking". That doesn't make any sense because I can find you amazing highlight reels from 5th round players. In fact, I've seen some great ones from undrafted free agents. But ok, this is what you've come back with. (Also, note: I provided three full length game tapes. How you or anyone views that as cherry picking is nonsensical.)
So I looked at your tape and it is bad. Really, really bad. It is as though the person who created the tape thought that merely seeing Gary on the field was a highlight! Tell me the truth, now - did you create this? Because that sounds like you. I kid. Just joshing you.
And further the tape does not support any counter-argument to my position. It in fact reinforces everything I said above. (Hint: the reason it does that is because the tape I gave above does not lie. You've heard of the eye in the sky?)
Breakdown
0:11 - assisted tackle down field (this is literally the first full play they show)
0:19 - he is literally unblocked, still fails to read play, other teammate penetrates, RB makes 2 yards after Gary contact
0:26 - last man of out stance, chipped by TE out of play, but great coverage and pressure up middle force qb to scramble, Gary does nothing
0:35 - literally unblocked again, TE swings over and force him wide, Bush beats his man and make sack, Gary jumps on him anyway. Gary should have forced a fumble here but no awareness to do it.
0:47 - decent enough play. again literally unblocked until TE tries to get him bad angle, but penetration from DT forces RB to cut, Gary is there to clean up
0:53 - short yardage situation and gary does nothing special besides not get blown up. why is this a highlight?
0:57 - blocked well and is third man to the tackle. again, why is this a highlight?
1:05 - gets cut blocked and is then 3rd michigan player to tackle. why am i watching this tape? will skip ahead. maybe there is a highlight there.
2:18 - nope. they double the right b-gap te is late to cover but does enough so that Wino still gets the sack before Gary gets there
2:24 - highlight of him making a tackle after 4 yd gain
2:40 - highlight of defense giving up a 1st down on short yard attempt
3:10 - highlight of tackle after 6 yd gain after other teammates initated contact and had it handled
3:29 - highlight of tackle when he is third man to an already wrapped up ball carier AND the guy then gets more yardage
3:40 - highlight of failing to properly stack and shed and being dragged for several yards on nice RB gain
3:44 - highlight last man firing out of stance, gets blocked by TE and taken out of play, and rest of team making tackle despite him
3:50 - highlight of him making an assisted tackle downfield. i'm giving up here...
Ill know not to follow your views anymore. You have no understanding of what his job is. There are this thing called contain, QB reads, etc... that you simply will not acknowledge.
Ill know not to follow your views anymore. You have no understanding of what his job is. There are this thing called contain, QB reads, etc... that you simply will not acknowledge.
Please do. Thx
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your analysis is terrible. You literally made up 90% of what happened.
Ill know not to follow your views anymore. You have no understanding of what his job is. There are this thing called contain, QB reads, etc... that you simply will not acknowledge.
Please do. Thx
And please stop posting. Your understanding of simple concepts is severely lacking. Your getting on him for having the responsibilty of the QB on a read option play - and then going to make the tackle on the RB a yard down field. So not only does he do his job, he goes and make the tackle on someone else's responsibility.
it also fails to show how Garytaking up multiple blockers made it possible for others to do compete play and how many times Gary hits the ball carrier behind the backfield. Also it fails to show how Gary made tackles/assisted tackles while lining up on the other side of where the play went.
I have seen some poor analysis on my day here. This is way up there. Very poor.
The more I read into this, the more it shows as an agenda filled post. Please disregard this post. Very poorly done.
The more I read into this, the more it shows as an agenda filled post. Please disregard this post. Very poorly done.
Un-natural as a pass rusher. He plays the run well and is strong for sure. But he doesnt get after the passer well. What he does is based on HWS and will get muted alot more in the NFL
Not worth the #6 pick.
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and how he defines them poorly "dominated" "gives up". What he doesnt tell you all the time, is that every successful run play usually occurs when they run AWAY from him. And he often skils a shit ton of plays during his analysis too because those plays Gary dominated.
The more I read into this, the more it shows as an agenda filled post. Please disregard this post. Very poorly done.
Un-natural as a pass rusher. He plays the run well and is strong for sure. But he doesnt get after the passer well. What he does is based on HWS and will get muted alot more in the NFL
Not worth the #6 pick.
And that may be. But the failure to realize his job wasn’t to get after the passer as it was to occupy blockers and get a push is seemingly lost over and over again.
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In comment 14377060 dep026 said:
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your analysis is terrible. You literally made up 90% of what happened.
Ill know not to follow your views anymore. You have no understanding of what his job is. There are this thing called contain, QB reads, etc... that you simply will not acknowledge.
Please do. Thx
And please stop posting. Your understanding of simple concepts is severely lacking. Your getting on him for having the responsibilty of the QB on a read option play - and then going to make the tackle on the RB a yard down field. So not only does he do his job, he goes and make the tackle on someone else's responsibility.
Please stop posting? Geez man, get a life. You want people with different opinions than you to be silent?Plenty of people in this thread appreciated my post. So sorry that your sensitive feelings were hurt and you got rankled. But no, I won't. Guess you're gonna have to put on big boy pants and deal with it.
(PS - that's your new nickname. Rankle. Bye, Rankle.)
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In comment 14377090 dep026 said:
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and how he defines them poorly "dominated" "gives up". What he doesnt tell you all the time, is that every successful run play usually occurs when they run AWAY from him. And he often skils a shit ton of plays during his analysis too because those plays Gary dominated.
The more I read into this, the more it shows as an agenda filled post. Please disregard this post. Very poorly done.
Un-natural as a pass rusher. He plays the run well and is strong for sure. But he doesnt get after the passer well. What he does is based on HWS and will get muted alot more in the NFL
Not worth the #6 pick.
And that may be. But the failure to realize his job wasn’t to get after the passer as it was to occupy blockers and get a push is seemingly lost over and over again.
There were analyses done showing his productvity isolating when he was put in position to rush the passer. Still not good. The Flowers comparison is apt because some guys for all their Height weight and strength are just not coordinated enough or 'wired' enough to learn the nuances and techniques that make a player great at that position . I see a guy like Oliver or Jayson Ferguson as guys that have flashed enough natural pass rush ability to show there is a toolset there that can be refined. I truly don't see that with Gary. He's more great size guy and athlete and even pretty smart and good run defender. But totally lacking in a pass rush tool set . You can't just think better coaching can make a guy great, something has to be there aside from the size-speed stuff. Its why guys like Flowers and Apple fell short.
I dont know if people dont understand this. But its a big reason why his sack numbers are low.
Personally if there's one player from Michigan I'd want on the Giants next year it's Devin Bush, not Gary, b/c this team badly needs speed and versatility at the LB position.
Personally if there's one player from Michigan I'd want on the Giants next year it's Devin Bush, not Gary, b/c this team badly needs speed and versatility at the LB position.
No, what's lazy is you resorting to calling an argument that you clearly did not understand "lazy". The argument was expressed clearly repeatedly and that a defensive end is more athletic than a tackle had nothing to do with it.
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But comparing him to Flowers is really, really lazy. He has worlds more athletic talent than Flowers.
Personally if there's one player from Michigan I'd want on the Giants next year it's Devin Bush, not Gary, b/c this team badly needs speed and versatility at the LB position.
No, what's lazy is you resorting to calling an argument that you clearly did not understand "lazy". The argument was expressed clearly repeatedly and that a defensive end is more athletic than a tackle had nothing to do with it.
Just because you stated an argument over and over again doesn't mean that it was clearly stated. I think it's fine if you don't like Gary. I just think comparing him to Flowers isn't accurate. He under produced, for reasons that dep has described have to do with scheme, and b/c of injury in 2018. And arguably he needs to improve on his pass rush moves. But I don't see the flaws in his technique that you see. And Flowers had terrible technique, and he was a forced pick. If Gary is the pick it's b/c DG loves him. Not b/c he has to pick a D lineman.
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and how he defines them poorly "dominated" "gives up". What he doesnt tell you all the time, is that every successful run play usually occurs when they run AWAY from him. And he often skils a shit ton of plays during his analysis too because those plays Gary dominated.
The more I read into this, the more it shows as an agenda filled post. Please disregard this post. Very poorly done.
Un-natural as a pass rusher. He plays the run well and is strong for sure. But he doesnt get after the passer well. What he does is based on HWS and will get muted alot more in the NFL
Not worth the #6 pick.
I would disagree with that assessment, but it’s a much better argument than building this thread around one of the worst players drafted into this organization since Cedric Jones. Ereck Flowers 😂, there is no amount of tape to make that comparison.
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In comment 14377256 RobCarpenter said:
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But comparing him to Flowers is really, really lazy. He has worlds more athletic talent than Flowers.
Personally if there's one player from Michigan I'd want on the Giants next year it's Devin Bush, not Gary, b/c this team badly needs speed and versatility at the LB position.
No, what's lazy is you resorting to calling an argument that you clearly did not understand "lazy". The argument was expressed clearly repeatedly and that a defensive end is more athletic than a tackle had nothing to do with it.
Just because you stated an argument over and over again doesn't mean that it was clearly stated. I think it's fine if you don't like Gary. I just think comparing him to Flowers isn't accurate. He under produced, for reasons that dep has described have to do with scheme, and b/c of injury in 2018. And arguably he needs to improve on his pass rush moves. But I don't see the flaws in his technique that you see. And Flowers had terrible technique, and he was a forced pick. If Gary is the pick it's b/c DG loves him. Not b/c he has to pick a D lineman.
Yes, very good, repeating something doesn't make something clear. Super comment. What I said however was exceedingly clear. But give it a go, tell me exactly what you think about the following statement was not clear:
"Rashan Gary is the Ereck Flowers of defensive ends because he has no technique, is sloppy, and relies on his perceived strengths to get by."
Thanks for your input. That's super not clear, I know.
"Arguably needs to improve his pass rush moves", you say. Arguably? You mean you don't think does need to. OK. Yeah, blame scheme. Don't bother looking at the plays he was actually rushing the passer. Then you might see something you could actually evaluate. Talk about being lazy. If you can't look at the tape and be objective with what you see I don't know what to tell you.
I think I've expressed my opinions as much as can here. If you have specific tape that is counter to the argument I've made I'm happy to review and discuss.
And those highlight tapes didn’t weren’t nearly as bad as he made them out to be, some weren’t bad at all.