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Vacchiano: Everything you need to know about Giants & Rosen

twostepgiants : 4/9/2019 8:35 pm
Ralph V does claim several NFL and team sources in citing this. That is significant to me. Multiple sources and from in and out of Giants.

The gist:

According to the article the Giants are interested in Rosen but at the right price. They will not move a 1st. They may part with a 2nd. That 2nd could be an additional 2nd IF they trade down in rd 1 or it could be their own IF the Cards add something. Or it could be a future 2nd.

Ralphs summary:

The bottom line is this: The Giants will be interested, but only if the price is right. And it seems unlikely they'd be willing to out-bid the Redskins if they're really interested. If they're not, maybe the Giants could package their third-round pick with a future second-rounder or something like that to get a deal done.

But that will depend on the Cardinals, who still have to put Rosen on the trading block first.

Ralph V also insinuates Giants could trade up in round 1 as well.

Full article with a lot of more details linked below
Article - ( New Window )
Every other day  
Nine-Tails : 4/9/2019 8:44 pm : link
It feels like one of the local beat, Ralph, Schwartz, Raanaan, write an article about Rosen. But there's been like no new information in a month. The Giants will have interest at a low cost but not look to trade any of their top 3 picks.
I guess I am confused  
Rjanyg : 4/9/2019 8:55 pm : link
If Rosen is considered a 1st round talent by NYG and he has a year of experience and will cost a fraction of what say Haskins or Lock would in round 1, what is the hold up to send pick 37 and a 5th to Arizona?

We have 12 picks, no future QB worth speaking of on the roster and 2 first round picks to add to the defense. It just makes way too much sense to not happen if we have the best offer.
The Giants  
blueblood : 4/9/2019 9:09 pm : link
could use all three of the first two picks on defense and it could be a very smart move. They could easily add two pass rushers and bolster the LB or Secondary. That #2 pick has a LOT of value for the defensive side of the ball where there is a serious lack of talent and depth.
Ralph V  
Jim Bur(n)t : 4/9/2019 9:09 pm : link
Knows as much as my neighbor, and he is a postman... oh wait..
Here is everything you need to know about it  
jlukes : 4/9/2019 9:11 pm : link

Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End
RE: I guess I am confused  
eric2425ny : 4/9/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14379794 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
If Rosen is considered a 1st round talent by NYG and he has a year of experience and will cost a fraction of what say Haskins or Lock would in round 1, what is the hold up to send pick 37 and a 5th to Arizona?

We have 12 picks, no future QB worth speaking of on the roster and 2 first round picks to add to the defense. It just makes way too much sense to not happen if we have the best offer.


It tells me they arent that excited about him as a prospect which backs up what jtgiants and other asshats have said repeatedly on here. They must be concerned about one or more of the following: his concussion history (especially given the fact that he really doesnt need football to survive and his Dad is a neurosurgeon), the political comments which frankly I have seen none since his college days, or this stuff about him not being a leader, etc.

At the end of the day Ill trust DG and company to make the right call on Rosen. I like the low risk high reward aspect of it, or at least I did, until I saw the supposed offer from the Redskins which I think is too much to give up.
RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
arcarsenal : 4/9/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:
Quote:

Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End


.... or maybe they just had Barkley graded higher.
RE: Ralph V  
eric2425ny : 4/9/2019 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14379806 Jim Bur(n)t said:
Quote:
Knows as much as my neighbor, and he is a postman... oh wait..


The pick at 6  
Joey in VA : 4/9/2019 9:15 pm : link
Will NOT be a QB and if they trade up, it's for Q if he slides. Repeat, they are NOT taking a QB at 6.
Seems to contradict basically everything jtgiants has said for a month  
The_Boss : 4/9/2019 9:23 pm : link
-
RE: I guess I am confused  
JohnB : 4/9/2019 9:23 pm : link
In comment 14379794 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
If Rosen is considered a 1st round talent by NYG


That's a big "if". Maybe they never put a 1st round grade on him. Maybe they still don't. Should they then part with a 1st round pick? Nope.
RE: Seems to contradict basically everything jtgiants has said for a month  
eric2425ny : 4/9/2019 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14379859 The_Boss said:
Quote:
-


Disagree, it sounds like they will only trade for him if its a great deal. Which means they likely wont beat many offers.
RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/9/2019 9:35 pm : link
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:
Quote:

Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End


Where doe it say that DG does not think Rosen is a potential Franchise QB? Because he picked Saquon? That means that neither Darnold nor Rosen is a franchise QB? Your comment does not make sense.
I've  
AcidTest : 4/9/2019 9:46 pm : link
made it clear that I would trade #37, and maybe #17, for Rosen, but even I'm sick of this discussion.

The Giants are interested, but for a price that is likely far less than what some other team, probably the Redskins, will pay.
RE: RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
GFAN52 : 4/9/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14379815 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:


Quote:



Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End



.... or maybe they just had Barkley graded higher.


This^^
RE: RE: I guess I am confused  
Rjanyg : 4/9/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14379861 JohnB said:
Quote:
In comment 14379794 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


If Rosen is considered a 1st round talent by NYG



That's a big "if". Maybe they never put a 1st round grade on him. Maybe they still don't. Should they then part with a 1st round pick? Nope.


There is no confirmation on what the Giants thought of Rosen last year other than they Liked Barkley better than him and every other QB.

That said, IF they thought he was at the very least a 1st round grade, to get him for a 2nd round pick without having to pay his signing bonus alone has got to be reason to believe they would have serious interest. Again, having 2 1st round picks this year to invest in our horrible defense with the possibility of adding a quality young QB seems like the optimal situation.
I think the move up is with 17  
George from PA : 4/9/2019 9:53 pm : link
To move ahead of Denver to draft Lock
The pick last year was *all* about Barkley. 100% Barkley  
Bill L : 4/9/2019 9:54 pm : link
BuT there were reports that Chubb was next in line, so tHe relative QB grades were at play. Further, people have noted that their top QB choice was Allen and then Darnold. So, at best their opinion of Rosen was less than other QBs and could signify that they dont value him as much as some here do.
But 2 first round picks to boost the defense  
Bill L : 4/9/2019 9:56 pm : link
And a second round pick to boost the defense again (or, even the OLine) is even better.
I don't have  
Joey in VA : 4/9/2019 9:56 pm : link
The "insider" tag, but Rosen is in play for the Giants, exactly as Ralph said. I trust my source absolutely and I don't hint at things or try to pump myself up as anything, but I was told that we are 100% NOT going QB at 6 and Rosen IS on the table but for the right price.
RE: I don't have  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/9/2019 10:01 pm : link
In comment 14379948 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
The "insider" tag, but Rosen is in play for the Giants, exactly as Ralph said. I trust my source absolutely and I don't hint at things or try to pump myself up as anything, but I was told that we are 100% NOT going QB at 6 and Rosen IS on the table but for the right price.


Good. Go defense @ 6.
I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Go Terps : 4/9/2019 10:04 pm : link
He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.
The Giants should first understand why AZ is dumping their 1st RD  
SterlingArcher : 4/9/2019 10:06 pm : link
pick from last year. What is wrong with this guy?
RE: I don't have  
Rjanyg : 4/9/2019 10:06 pm : link
In comment 14379948 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
The "insider" tag, but Rosen is in play for the Giants, exactly as Ralph said. I trust my source absolutely and I don't hint at things or try to pump myself up as anything, but I was told that we are 100% NOT going QB at 6 and Rosen IS on the table but for the right price.


Does your source include the compensation for Rosen?
RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Joey in VA : 4/9/2019 10:08 pm : link
In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.
Don't rule out Christian Wilkins at 6, he's a massive DL who can play at the 1, 3 or 5 and he'd run through a brick wall for any team he played for. Bradbury would be a home run at 17 for me personally, but IDK what DG is thinking.
RE: I think the move up is with 17  
twostepgiants : 4/9/2019 10:13 pm : link
In comment 14379940 George from PA said:
Quote:
To move ahead of Denver to draft Lock


An approx trade value to jump from 17 to 9 is the Giants 2nd round pick to move up. Look at this way its Josh Rosen (a trade with 37) & the 17 pick vs Drew Lock (the 17 pick + 37 pick to move up)
A perfect scenario  
Jay on the Island : 4/9/2019 10:16 pm : link
The Giants trade the 17th pick to NE for the 32nd pick and their 2nd and 3rd. The Giants then send the 37th pick and the 95th pick to Arizona for Rosen. The Giants would still have a 2nd and 3rd round pick to go along with the 6th and 32nd.
Sounds like he read all the other sources out there including BBI  
montanagiant : 4/9/2019 10:19 pm : link
And published their stuff
RE: The Giants should first understand why AZ is dumping their 1st RD  
GFAN52 : 4/9/2019 10:20 pm : link
In comment 14379963 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
pick from last year. What is wrong with this guy?


You mean what is wrong with their GM who hired and fired his own choice as head coach after only one year.
RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Go Terps : 4/9/2019 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14379967 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.

Don't rule out Christian Wilkins at 6, he's a massive DL who can play at the 1, 3 or 5 and he'd run through a brick wall for any team he played for. Bradbury would be a home run at 17 for me personally, but IDK what DG is thinking.


I like Wilkins, and I'd be fine with that pick. I just really like Hockenson. The thought of him and Ellison in 12 personnel with Engram moved around...

I also think the opportunity might be there to cluster draft to the OL. I love the idea of using one draft to turn a weakness into a strength, like the Colts did last year with their OL.
Things that are clear  
twostepgiants : 4/9/2019 10:21 pm : link
Numerous "major" reporters like Schefter, Vacchiano, King have all said repeatedly that Arizona has "not yet made Rosen available" so the Giants can not yet make their plans clear or they are bidding against themselves

There is a ton of smoke out there from major outlets so its hard to imagine there is no truth

If the Giants wanted to be in the mix for when Rosen IS made available then they need to be considered in the mix by leaks

The Giants could easily destroy this smoke by making clear their lack of interest to a major reporter like they have done in the past with Paul Schwartz

The very fact that that they havent done so shows their interest
Rosen 2019 can't be compared with Rosen 2018.  
CT Charlie : 4/9/2019 10:39 pm : link
His play this year answered some questions that were huge last year, namely, his desire, mental toughness, and durability. Saying "we didn't see him as the answer last year so why should he be the answer this year" is silly. Also, he's a lot cheaper this year.
RE: Things that are clear  
eric2425ny : 4/9/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14379987 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Numerous "major" reporters like Schefter, Vacchiano, King have all said repeatedly that Arizona has "not yet made Rosen available" so the Giants can not yet make their plans clear or they are bidding against themselves

There is a ton of smoke out there from major outlets so its hard to imagine there is no truth

If the Giants wanted to be in the mix for when Rosen IS made available then they need to be considered in the mix by leaks

The Giants could easily destroy this smoke by making clear their lack of interest to a major reporter like they have done in the past with Paul Schwartz

The very fact that that they havent done so shows their interest


twostepgiants celebrating if the Giants trade for Rosen, two off seasons in the making...

RE: RE: Things that are clear  
twostepgiants : 4/9/2019 10:45 pm : link
In comment 14380011 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14379987 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Numerous "major" reporters like Schefter, Vacchiano, King have all said repeatedly that Arizona has "not yet made Rosen available" so the Giants can not yet make their plans clear or they are bidding against themselves

There is a ton of smoke out there from major outlets so its hard to imagine there is no truth

If the Giants wanted to be in the mix for when Rosen IS made available then they need to be considered in the mix by leaks

The Giants could easily destroy this smoke by making clear their lack of interest to a major reporter like they have done in the past with Paul Schwartz

The very fact that that they havent done so shows their interest



twostepgiants celebrating if the Giants trade for Rosen, two off seasons in the making...



I love this post
RE: RE: RE: Things that are clear  
eric2425ny : 4/9/2019 10:47 pm : link
In comment 14380026 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14380011 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


In comment 14379987 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Numerous "major" reporters like Schefter, Vacchiano, King have all said repeatedly that Arizona has "not yet made Rosen available" so the Giants can not yet make their plans clear or they are bidding against themselves

There is a ton of smoke out there from major outlets so its hard to imagine there is no truth

If the Giants wanted to be in the mix for when Rosen IS made available then they need to be considered in the mix by leaks

The Giants could easily destroy this smoke by making clear their lack of interest to a major reporter like they have done in the past with Paul Schwartz

The very fact that that they havent done so shows their interest



twostepgiants celebrating if the Giants trade for Rosen, two off seasons in the making...





I love this post


Lol, Ill be dancing right next to you if we get him for the right price.
RE: Ralph V  
TommyWiseau : 4/9/2019 10:50 pm : link
In comment 14379806 Jim Bur(n)t said:
Quote:
Knows as much as my neighbor, and he is a postman... oh wait..


Ralph V always picks the Giants first round target before everyone else does each year so he has to know some things
RE: RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
SHO'NUFF : 4/9/2019 10:53 pm : link
In comment 14379815 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:


Quote:



Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End



.... or maybe they just had Barkley graded higher.


Fuck, is it that hard to grasp that Barkley was rated higher and it says nothing about how they felt about Rosen, Darnold or anybody else in any position?
The Cards May have more draft picks than they really need do  
Ivan15 : 4/9/2019 10:55 pm : link
It could be Rosen and a pick for 2 Giants picks.

I would like to see the Giants with the 1st pick in Round 4. Who has it?
No criticism of JTGiants, but unless he is getting info from DG or  
Ivan15 : 4/9/2019 11:02 pm : link
maybe Shurmur, its still speculation. Maybe it is insider speculation but still speculation. I dont think even Shula knows how they will rank the QBs.
No criticism of JTGiants, but unless he is getting info from DG or  
Ivan15 : 4/9/2019 11:02 pm : link
maybe Shurmur, its still speculation. Maybe it is insider speculation but still speculation. I dont think even Shula knows how they will rank the QBs.
Sorry about the double post.  
Ivan15 : 4/9/2019 11:03 pm : link
.
Go Terps  
Bill2 : 4/9/2019 11:08 pm : link
Id love that draft. And I would like Joey's suggested variation as well
RE: Rosen 2019 can't be compared with Rosen 2018.  
allstarjim : 4/9/2019 11:21 pm : link
In comment 14380009 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
His play this year answered some questions that were huge last year, namely, his desire, mental toughness, and durability. Saying "we didn't see him as the answer last year so why should he be the answer this year" is silly. Also, he's a lot cheaper this year.


Great, he didn't get hurt and didn't quit. He still sucked ass, which is fairly normal for a starting QB. But he didn't get better over the season, either.

It absolutely is fair to think he just isn't ever going to be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.

We're celebrating Rosen for playing terrible but staying on the field. That, to me, is what is silly.
RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Nine-Tails : 4/9/2019 11:26 pm : link
In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.


Don't be upset then when the defense can't even stop a nosebleed
RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Go Terps : 4/9/2019 11:38 pm : link
In comment 14380086 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.



Don't be upset then when the defense can't even stop a nosebleed


If you think a rookie or two is going to transform this defense in 2019, you're bound to be disappointed. They probably benefit more by having the offensive line (finally) become a strength. Complementary football.
RE: RE: Rosen 2019 can't be compared with Rosen 2018.  
Rjanyg : 4/9/2019 11:43 pm : link
In comment 14380078 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14380009 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


His play this year answered some questions that were huge last year, namely, his desire, mental toughness, and durability. Saying "we didn't see him as the answer last year so why should he be the answer this year" is silly. Also, he's a lot cheaper this year.



Great, he didn't get hurt and didn't quit. He still sucked ass, which is fairly normal for a starting QB. But he didn't get better over the season, either.

It absolutely is fair to think he just isn't ever going to be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.

We're celebrating Rosen for playing terrible but staying on the field. That, to me, is what is silly.


Elis rookie year wasnt great. He turned it around and became a champion. Rosen showed he can play in the NFL. His team around him wasnt good hence having the top pick in the draft
RE: RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Nine-Tails : 4/9/2019 11:44 pm : link
In comment 14380098 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14380086 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.



Don't be upset then when the defense can't even stop a nosebleed



If you think a rookie or two is going to transform this defense in 2019, you're bound to be disappointed. They probably benefit more by having the offensive line (finally) become a strength. Complementary football.


On the other hand it's no guarantee that those guys will be immediate contributors as well, not many olineman and tight ends come in year one and are great, it usually takes some time. And by using all those resources on offense, the defense will be void of talent and will be a huge need next year. The smart move would be to invest in both.
RE: RE: I guess I am confused  
kelsto811 : 4/9/2019 11:55 pm : link
Quote:
If Rosen is considered a 1st round talent by NYG and he has a year of experience and will cost
It tells me they arent that excited about him as a prospect which backs up what jtgiants and other asshats have said repeatedly on here. They must be concerned about one or more of the following: his concussion history (especially given the fact that he really doesnt need football to survive and his Dad is a neurosurgeon), the political comments which frankly I have seen none since his college days, or this stuff about him not being a leader, etc.


I thought that their reluctance may have stemmed from one or some of those things too...but from everything I've seen where people were willing to put their name on it, he is not a bad teammate, poor leader, or a guy who seems to have dedication issues. I've never seen a political comment made by him either. I saw this today also:

Quote:
Ian Rapoport

@RapSheet
Apr 8, 2019
The #AZCardinals offseason conditioning program begins today, and not only is QB Josh Rosen in the building he was the first guy in the building for new coach Kliff Kingsbury.


Markus Golden

@markusgolden
He was the first in the building as a rookie to! Great Guy and player!

620
12:13 PM - Apr 8, 2019

Putting Rosen's capabilities or lack thereof aside  
kdog77 : 4/10/2019 12:40 am : link
This all seems like a giant game of chicken. No team wants to look like a sucker and so they are all playing cards (no pun intended) close to the vest. Cards gave up a lot to move up last year to get Rosen and trading him for less than first round value might seem insulting to current GM that traded for him. Giants passed over Rosen (no slight on religion intended) last year to pick Barkley and honestly might not want to rush to overpay by giving up #17 for him when they just traded OBJ to Cleveland. Maybe DG wants to squeeze Cards for lower round pick but my thought is that #37 is fair value now and on Day 2 of the draft. Neither side seems willing to admit that yet.
Everything that has been said by "legitimate" voices leads to  
PatersonPlank : 4/10/2019 12:52 am : link
1) The Giants are not going QB at #6, there are going D
2) QB is in play at #17, but it needs to be in-line with BPA.
3) Rosen for the #37 and something else is a viable probability. In which case they definitely don't go QB at #17.

From what I can tell the rest is all opinion, including which QB they would take at #17. All this leads to is they like Jones or Lock better than Haskins.
RE: Putting Rosen's capabilities or lack thereof aside  
kelsto811 : 4/10/2019 12:57 am : link
In comment 14380118 kdog77 said:
Quote:
This all seems like a giant game of chicken. No team wants to look like a sucker and so they are all playing cards (no pun intended) close to the vest. Cards gave up a lot to move up last year to get Rosen...


I don't disagree with anything here but want to point out that the Cards swapped 1's and only gave a mid 3rd and mid 5th to move up. Still that is probably irrelevant considering that they used a top 10 pick to select him, which is reason enough to go wtf when you then trade him for anything less a year later.
keltso811  
kdog77 : 4/10/2019 1:35 am : link
Fair point. I just think when Cards spent 3 picks to move up to get Rosen in round 1 last year they are bound to overvalue him based on endowment effect.

Experts and fans predicting the draft are extrapolating a lot based on 1 off hand comment from Kingsbury about Kyler Murray before he took Cards HC job. For all we know Cards are going to take Bosa, but want to see if Raiders will offer #4 + 1 more 1st rounder to take Murray.

I am neutral on Rosen as QB in NFL, but don't want Giants to overpay to get a guy that might be let go after the draft. Risking #37 seems like more acceptable risk compared to the quality of players we have to forego at #6 or #17 to get Haskins, Lock or Jones.

If the heir apparent is going to sit behind Eli anyway then what is the rush? Giants can still pick the "franchise QB" next year if the team has not turned around in 2019.
RE: I don't have  
UberAlias : 4/10/2019 5:11 am : link
In comment 14379948 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
The "insider" tag, but Rosen is in play for the Giants, exactly as Ralph said. I trust my source absolutely and I don't hint at things or try to pump myself up as anything, but I was told that we are 100% NOT going QB at 6 and Rosen IS on the table but for the right price.
Spot on. Some folks might not accept / believe no QB @6 even after they see it on ESPN. #6 is earmarked for an immediate impact player on the defensive side. What that tells you is they may like a QB or two, but they dont love them. Just like they didnt a year ago.
This confirms what jtgiants and others have been  
ZogZerg : 4/10/2019 6:21 am : link
saying about Rosen. Doesn't sound like the Giants have a ton of interest, but maybe at right price. Sounds like he is there for the redskins to take.
RE: Every other day  
Big Blue '56 : 4/10/2019 7:03 am : link
In comment 14379767 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
It feels like one of the local beat, Ralph, Schwartz, Raanaan, write an article about Rosen. But there's been like no new information in a month. The Giants will have interest at a low cost but not look to trade any of their top 3 picks.


Sometimes, the first post of a thread says it all, though they could part with a 2
RE: Ralph V  
joeinpa : 4/10/2019 7:04 am : link
In comment 14379806 Jim Bur(n)t said:
Quote:
Knows as much as my neighbor, and he is a postman... oh wait..


Wouldnt be BBI without a post demeaning the source 👏
I believe they like Rosen a lot more than Haskins  
Rjanyg : 4/10/2019 7:17 am : link
Its all about value. DG has said this many times when acquiring players.

Is Haskins or Lock worth the 6th pick? Im guessing in DGs eyes NO.

Are they worth 17th pick and if so will they be there? My guess is they are worth it but may not be there so a small trade up may be necessary and that might cost too much to DG.

Is Rosen worth a trade of pick 37 and maybe another mid round pick in 2019 or a 3rd round pick next year? Again Maybe.

Who presents the best value. I think Rosen does.
Playing Poker on Rosen  
Rafflee : 4/10/2019 7:23 am : link
Arizona is balancing timing and return. They're not ready to deal Him TODAY...but they're probaby fishing conversations.

This will probably get done on DRaft Day---when a Team can make THE OFFER and tell AZ to Fish or cut bait---no offer shopping.
RE: RE: RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
jlukes : 4/10/2019 7:26 am : link
In comment 14380037 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
In comment 14379815 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14379811 jlukes said:


Quote:



Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End



.... or maybe they just had Barkley graded higher.



Fuck, is it that hard to grasp that Barkley was rated higher and it says nothing about how they felt about Rosen, Darnold or anybody else in any position?


Barkley was rated higher... because they didn't have the other QBs rated as franchise QBs.

If you have read Gettleman's comments about Franchise QBs over the last two years, you would get that.
RE: The Giants should first understand why AZ is dumping their 1st RD  
markky : 4/10/2019 7:28 am : link
In comment 14379963 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
pick from last year. What is wrong with this guy?


probably the same thing wrong with hall of famers Brett Favre, Steve Young and Drew Brees
Not Trading 17th for Rosen???  
Rafflee : 4/10/2019 7:28 am : link
That might indicate that they don't like anyone with either of the 1st Round Picks---after all...if you liked a guy, you'd get him, considering the value of those two first draft picks and their ability to move up to get there guy.... For all I know, The 6th and 17th would get you the First Pick
RE: I believe they like Rosen a lot more than Haskins  
joeinpa : 4/10/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14380159 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Its all about value. DG has said this many times when acquiring players.

Is Haskins or Lock worth the 6th pick? Im guessing in DGs eyes NO.

Are they worth 17th pick and if so will they be there? My guess is they are worth it but may not be there so a small trade up may be necessary and that might cost too much to DG.

Good analysis, makes a lot of sense. It certainly seems that there is at least some interest in Rosen by the Giants

Is Rosen worth a trade of pick 37 and maybe another mid round pick in 2019 or a 3rd round pick next year? Again Maybe.

Who presents the best value. I think Rosen does.
If the Redskins offer is accurate  
JonC : 4/10/2019 8:10 am : link
even somewhat accurate, I really doubt DG will beat it for Rosen.
This article tells me  
crooza172 : 4/10/2019 8:43 am : link
Nothing. All the things the giants could do. Not what he is hearing they want to do. Might as well just be another thread on BBI.
twostepgiants  
fkap : 4/10/2019 8:46 am : link
"If the Giants wanted to be in the mix for when Rosen IS made available then they need to be considered in the mix by leaks"

DG can simply pick up the phone and tell AZ he's interested if the price is right. The only way for the public to know we're in the mix is through leaks. Leaking could serve to make others (such as Redskins) step up to the plate causing them to expend resources and potentially affecting their draft, leaving someone extra for us to choose from.


Sounds like Giants might take a flier at a palatable pick. Our 2nd rounder is too high for me to be considered a flier pick.
RE: If the Redskins offer is accurate  
ron mexico : 4/10/2019 8:47 am : link
In comment 14380190 JonC said:
Quote:
even somewhat accurate, I really doubt DG will beat it for Rosen.


I agree.

Out of curiosity, would you say the 17th pick straight up is a better or worse offer than the rumored redskins package?




twostepgiants  
fkap : 4/10/2019 8:49 am : link
"If the Giants wanted to be in the mix for when Rosen IS made available then they need to be considered in the mix by leaks"

DG can simply pick up the phone and tell AZ he's interested if the price is right. The only way for the public to know we're in the mix is through leaks. Leaking could serve to make others (such as Redskins) step up to the plate causing them to expend resources and potentially affecting their draft, leaving someone extra for us to choose from.


Sounds like Giants might take a flier at a palatable pick. Our 2nd rounder is too high for me to be considered a flier pick.
There were 5 QBs picked in round 1 last year  
arniefez : 4/10/2019 8:51 am : link
Again we have no way of knowing if this is true, but if the Giants had Allen graded highest you just have to laugh at this point.
it was reportedly  
JonC : 4/10/2019 8:52 am : link
Darnold.
RE: If the Redskins offer is accurate  
Big Blue '56 : 4/10/2019 8:56 am : link
In comment 14380190 JonC said:
Quote:
even somewhat accurate, I really doubt DG will beat it for Rosen.


Do you have any idea whether or not the Giants had Mayfield rated highly or even above Barkley?
Barkley was the runaway #1  
JonC : 4/10/2019 8:57 am : link
#2 was Chubb, #3 was Nelson. Darnold was the top QB and he was apparently not in the top 5.
RE: RE: If the Redskins offer is accurate  
JonC : 4/10/2019 9:01 am : link
In comment 14380226 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14380190 JonC said:


Quote:


even somewhat accurate, I really doubt DG will beat it for Rosen.



I agree.

Out of curiosity, would you say the 17th pick straight up is a better or worse offer than the rumored redskins package?





In general, there's often not a huge difference in talent level at #17 versus #37. Teams will often suggest the value of the latter is higher due to the salary cap savings, etc.
RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/10/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:
Quote:

Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End

That doesn't necessarily compute. The Giants may or may not have had a franchise QB worthy grade on Rosen but simply had a grade on Barkley that was so high that they could not pass him up. Literally everything that Gettleman had to say about Barkley both before and after the draft is consistent with that. Yet so many posters continue to infer some sort of reflection on the QB prospects as a result of the Barkley selection.

Even going a step further, Gettleman has seemed to suggest that he doesn't grade QBs on a curve - his statements about eschewing relative positional value confirm that. Did the Giants have a higher grade on Barkley then Rosen? Yes, obviously. Does that in any way tell us that they did not have a franchise QB grade on Rosen (or any other QB last year)? Absolutely not, IMO.
RE: No criticism of JTGiants, but unless he is getting info from DG or  
Jay on the Island : 4/10/2019 9:25 am : link
In comment 14380045 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
maybe Shurmur, its still speculation. Maybe it is insider speculation but still speculation. I dont think even Shula knows how they will rank the QBs.

It's not just jtgiants, JonC has confirmed what jtgiants has heard regarding Rosen. They are two guys with different inside sources saying the same thing.
and RV confirmed it  
JonC : 4/10/2019 9:25 am : link
.
Rosen  
Thegratefulhead : 4/10/2019 10:06 am : link
Quarterback mechanics, accuracy repeatable delivery arm strength, Roseanne was the best QB in the draft last year. There were attitude concerns people worry about his work ethic and desire and there was unsubstantiated reports of locker-room baggage. Even with all that the Cardinals traded up to number 10 to wire acquire him. Since then he has added one year of NFL experience. He was in the worst situation in football for quarterback this last year. His desire can't be questioned anymore. He was the first one in and out last year his teammates reportedly loved him and he said nothing political and he has not complained one single time when the team has been openly shopping another quarterback. Honestly if we get them for anything less than number 6 we will steal this draft because Arizona is stupid. if you can land a game-changing defensive player and a franchise quarterback in the same draft you fucking win. Unlike running back, these are premium positions.
Since the Cards  
RinR : 4/10/2019 10:17 am : link
haven't publicly declared they are shopping him (and why would they now), this is all smoke to me.

And if said smoke has the Redskins sticking with their reported offer for Rosen then that's a potential win for the Giants. Seems like a lot to give up but then again its the Redskins.
Cards keeping Rosen  
JonC : 4/10/2019 10:20 am : link
makes no sense, once Murray is on the roster.
RE: Since the Cards  
Gruber : 4/10/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14380363 RinR said:
Quote:
haven't publicly declared they are shopping him (and why would they now), this is all smoke to me.

And if said smoke has the Redskins sticking with their reported offer for Rosen then that's a potential win for the Giants. Seems like a lot to give up but then again its the Redskins.


Unless something very dramatic happens in the next three weeks, the Cards are drafting Murray with their #1 pick. They are not going to trade Rosen prior to the draft, because that would leave them exposed should something happen re. Murray. Rosen will most likely be traded on the night.
RE: and RV confirmed it  
Giants38 : 4/10/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14380285 JonC said:
Quote:
.


If the Giants are this bad at keeping information close to the best, they might as well show the other teams their draft board. But hey, thats the Giants for you. Leaks galore.
Lock him..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/10/2019 10:43 am : link
up and never let him play again!!


- Puritanical Society of Hypocrites
While they could improve  
JonC : 4/10/2019 10:43 am : link
there's always leaks as well as info shared for strategic purposes.
Giants38  
JonC : 4/10/2019 10:44 am : link
It must be a truly miserable experience for you rooting for NYG during these difficult times. Perhaps a new team for you would work wonders.
RE: RE: Rosen 2019 can't be compared with Rosen 2018.  
PatersonPlank : 4/10/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14380078 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14380009 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


His play this year answered some questions that were huge last year, namely, his desire, mental toughness, and durability. Saying "we didn't see him as the answer last year so why should he be the answer this year" is silly. Also, he's a lot cheaper this year.



Great, he didn't get hurt and didn't quit. He still sucked ass, which is fairly normal for a starting QB. But he didn't get better over the season, either.

It absolutely is fair to think he just isn't ever going to be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.

We're celebrating Rosen for playing terrible but staying on the field. That, to me, is what is silly.


Rosen played on the worst team in football, behind an offensive line so bad that David Johnson couldn't run at all. The fact he beat out Bradford, and then did ok behind that crap, is very encouraging. You have to consider the surrounding talent here for a rookie QB. If I remember his stats were not that much different than Darnolds. I definitely think Rosen will be a top tier QB
RE: RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/10/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14380287 GeorgeAdams33 said:
Quote:
In comment 14379967 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.

Don't rule out Christian Wilkins at 6, he's a massive DL who can play at the 1, 3 or 5 and he'd run through a brick wall for any team he played for. Bradbury would be a home run at 17 for me personally, but IDK what DG is thinking.



No thanks. I don't want a queer deviant sexual predator as the face of the Giants Defense.

If they pick him, will you go away? Because that may affect who I hope the Giants select.
you tell him Jon!  
Dave on the UWS : 4/10/2019 11:05 am : link
people have no patience around here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Bill L : 4/10/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14380440 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14380287 GeorgeAdams33 said:


Quote:


In comment 14379967 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.

Don't rule out Christian Wilkins at 6, he's a massive DL who can play at the 1, 3 or 5 and he'd run through a brick wall for any team he played for. Bradbury would be a home run at 17 for me personally, but IDK what DG is thinking.



No thanks. I don't want a queer deviant sexual predator as the face of the Giants Defense.


If they pick him, will you go away? Because that may affect who I hope the Giants select.
SOunds to me like for George, it's a case of "Hell hath no fury..."
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Bill L : 4/10/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14380440 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14380287 GeorgeAdams33 said:


Quote:


In comment 14379967 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.

Don't rule out Christian Wilkins at 6, he's a massive DL who can play at the 1, 3 or 5 and he'd run through a brick wall for any team he played for. Bradbury would be a home run at 17 for me personally, but IDK what DG is thinking.



No thanks. I don't want a queer deviant sexual predator as the face of the Giants Defense.


If they pick him, will you go away? Because that may affect who I hope the Giants select.
SOunds to me like for George, it's a case of "Hell hath no fury..."
RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
River Mike : 4/10/2019 11:22 am : link
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:
Quote:

Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End


Nothing in the choice to draft the best player in the draft, Saquan Barkley, says that they didn't view Rosen as a franchise QB
RE: RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/10/2019 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14380287 GeorgeAdams33 said:
Quote:
In comment 14379967 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.

Don't rule out Christian Wilkins at 6, he's a massive DL who can play at the 1, 3 or 5 and he'd run through a brick wall for any team he played for. Bradbury would be a home run at 17 for me personally, but IDK what DG is thinking.



No thanks. I don't want a queer deviant sexual predator as the face of the Giants Defense.


But a straight deviant sexual predator, that's ok!

Probably a take that should have been checked over by a supervisor before you hit 'submit'.
RE: RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
jlukes : 4/10/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14380471 River Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:


Quote:



Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End



Nothing in the choice to draft the best player in the draft, Saquan Barkley, says that they didn't view Rosen as a franchise QB


Then you obviously haven't followed what Gettleman has said about franchise QBs over the last two years.
RE: Lock him..  
Amtoft : 4/10/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14380411 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
up and never let him play again!!


- Puritanical Society of Hypocrites


Whoa... WTF... that is actually assualt... I believe someone in wrestling did this and was brought up on charges.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd go TJ Hockenson  
darren in pdx : 4/10/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14380572 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14380287 GeorgeAdams33 said:


Quote:


In comment 14379967 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14379960 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's the one blue chip that figures to still be on the board at 6. I'd draft him at 6, Garrett Bradbury at 17, and the Alabama State tackle at 37. Offensive line rebuild complete.

Don't rule out Christian Wilkins at 6, he's a massive DL who can play at the 1, 3 or 5 and he'd run through a brick wall for any team he played for. Bradbury would be a home run at 17 for me personally, but IDK what DG is thinking.



No thanks. I don't want a queer deviant sexual predator as the face of the Giants Defense.



But a straight deviant sexual predator, that's ok!

Probably a take that should have been checked over by a supervisor before you hit 'submit'.



No one should tell him what normally happens in piles..butt poking, ball pinching..all kinds of things that threatens his frail sexuality.
RE: RE: RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/10/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14380990 jlukes said:
Quote:
In comment 14380471 River Mike said:


Quote:


In comment 14379811 jlukes said:


Quote:



Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End



Nothing in the choice to draft the best player in the draft, Saquan Barkley, says that they didn't view Rosen as a franchise QB



Then you obviously haven't followed what Gettleman has said about franchise QBs over the last two years.

If you follow everything Gettleman says, you'll notice that he eventually takes every possible side of an argument.
RE: RE: Lock him..  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/10/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14380993 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14380411 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


up and never let him play again!!


- Puritanical Society of Hypocrites




Whoa... WTF... that is actually assualt... I believe someone in wrestling did this and was brought up on charges.

Literally every single thing that happens on a football field is actually assault, and the vast majority of it is battery.
That is a world class pegging by Wilkins!  
FrankieR : 4/10/2019 4:20 pm : link
Two knuckles deep on that poor OSU player. What in the hell mustve the OSU player been thinking?
RE: RE: Lock him..  
FrankieR : 4/10/2019 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14380993 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14380411 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


up and never let him play again!!


- Puritanical Society of Hypocrites




Whoa... WTF... that is actually assualt... I believe someone in wrestling did this and was brought up on charges.


Finger banged the opponent?
RE: Playing Poker on Rosen  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/14/2019 1:15 pm : link
In comment 14380160 Rafflee said:
Quote:
Arizona is balancing timing and return. They're not ready to deal Him TODAY...but they're probaby fishing conversations.

This will probably get done on DRaft Day---when a Team can make THE OFFER and tell AZ to Fish or cut bait---no offer shopping.

Arizona is playing poker with a 2-7 offsuit in their hand.
RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
montanagiant : 4/15/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14379811 jlukes said:
Quote:

Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End

LOL....Perfectly sums it up...
RE: RE: RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
montanagiant : 4/15/2019 9:42 pm : link
In comment 14380037 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
In comment 14379815 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14379811 jlukes said:


Quote:



Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End



.... or maybe they just had Barkley graded higher.



Fuck, is it that hard to grasp that Barkley was rated higher and it says nothing about how they felt about Rosen, Darnold or anybody else in any position?

You're not taking a RB over a QB you think can be a franchise one..No matter how good that RB is
No matter how good that RB is  
montanagiant : 4/15/2019 9:45 pm : link
You don't pick him if you believe there is a franchise QB available UNLESS you think your current QB is still viable for 2-3 years.

This is the situation we find us in and what gets overlooked
RE: RE: RE: RE: Here is everything you need to know about it  
PatersonPlank : 4/15/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14387920 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14380037 SHO'NUFF said:


Quote:


In comment 14379815 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14379811 jlukes said:


Quote:



Giants didn't view Rosen as a Franchise QB or they would have drafted him at 2 last year.

Gettleman has talked about QB hell and he will not acquire a QB who he doesn't view as a Franchise QB

The End



.... or maybe they just had Barkley graded higher.



Fuck, is it that hard to grasp that Barkley was rated higher and it says nothing about how they felt about Rosen, Darnold or anybody else in any position?


You're not taking a RB over a QB you think can be a franchise one..No matter how good that RB is


Barkley was viewed as a generational player, not just a RB. So yes even if they thought Rosen was a franchise QB, they still would have took Barkley. Frankly so far that looks like the best decision. Barkley looks better than all the QB's so far, even the great Darnold. Only Mayfield is close.
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