So me and the girlfriend are re-watching GoT in advance of Sunday's premiere and Tyrion's plan to have the Unsullied go to Casterly Rock while Yara and Co. ferry the Dornish north is a stroke of genius. We're led to believe that Jamie and Cersei figured out the plan and emptied Casterly Rock, took High Garden, the gold and all that fun stuff while Yuron kidnaps and delivers Yara and the Sand Snakes to Cersei. It's laid out that Jamie figures out the plan, counters and it's good night High Garden and Dorn.
I call bullshit. Jamie and Cersei are smart but they aren't see the future smart. So I started wondering, there has to be a rat at the meeting where the plan is laid out and therefore who benefits? So I think, that either Tyrion or Varys tells Jamie of the plan intentionally, to spare the Lannister Army because it will be needed against the Night King. So my thinking is this...Tyrion or Varys knows the long game, they need 1) lots of troops 2) a defensible position and 3) a ruse to defeat the night king. So Yuron sails to get the Gold Company, he returns without the full force because of mingling by one of the co-conspirators (Varys, Tyrion or Jamie). The Night King flies south to take King's Landing and its 1 million denizens, part of his army is drawn to Winterfell where Jon Snow draws it in and the Dragons burn it and Winterfell to the ground.
Now you have Jamie taking the Lannister Army north to keep his word, the Unsullied, the Dothraki Army, two dragons and Dany and Jon and they march south for the final showdown. I think Tyrion or Varys (or both) tell Jamie of the plan to get Dorn and High Garden in the game, to get Cersei confident and ultimately defeat her when the Gold Company comes up short and the Night King fails at making all of King's Landing part of his army. Tyrion's pain when the dragons roast the Lannister's bringing back high garden's gold is what made me think this. He does NOT want to kill Lannisters and it's not out of empathy it's because he knows that they need as many bodies, capable fighters, to defeat the Night King's Army. I think he has to be a rat after that meeting and he and Jamie hatch the long game to unseat Cersei and take the Night King. Tyrion's shock and disdain after the dragons roast Dickon (heh) and Randall Tarley and kill scores of Lannister men means he wants as many troops as he can get. Flame away.
I think Cersei's rule on "gold is king" vis a vis the iron bank ad guiding what she did with the tyrell loyalist and taking their gold. tyrion just got outflanked.
Who dies for the knife is also tricky. If its Jon does that mean Daenerys or Milasandre? If its the Hound could it be Arya or Sansa? If its Dany then Jon Snow (again getting stabbed in the heart)?
I can't wait.
Jon = Azor Ahai
Melisandre = Nisa Nisa
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the day. What isn't clear is who will be Azor Ahai. I've read many theories and I have no idea. It could be Dany or Milasandre (remember she did say the "Prince" didn't have to be a male), it could be Jon Snow, Bran, I've even seen a theory its The Hound!
Who dies for the knife is also tricky. If its Jon does that mean Daenerys or Milasandre? If its the Hound could it be Arya or Sansa? If its Dany then Jon Snow (again getting stabbed in the heart)?
I can't wait.
Jon = Azor Ahai
Melisandre = Nisa Nisa
One of the most sensible outcomes.
I don't think this is the craziest theory. I was going to mention that private meeting between Cersei and Tyrion after the huge summit in the dragon pit went awry - we never saw the conclusion of their discussion. Obviously Cersei comes out and lies about providing troops to fight the Night King, but is Tyrion aware of the plot? Probably not likely, but not crazy either.
This is a Shakespearen tragedy ...easy to figure out how ir ends
In interviews, Maisie Williams & Sophie Turner, ( Aria & Sansa) said they and other cast members, had drawn their own conclusions, on how the series shall end. (before the final read) However, not even one person, was correct.
They were all shocked, on how the story unfolded, upon that final read. So much so, Sophie Turner said she had to be consoled for days, after reading how it ended. They also agreed that most fans will be divided, on how it concludes.
Now, several of those cast members, also played Shakespearen roles throughout their career. So I highly doubt it ends like a Shakespearen tragedy. Cause surely they would've had those same thoughts.
I also read that the directors of the show want a 'Breaking Bad' type of fan reaction and discussion, amongst the fans of GOT, long after they see the finale. They said if that was to occur, then they've done their job. But did also say, they were nervous, that they won't actually get the reaction they're striving for.
I wouldn't mind it. I don't require a happy, gift wrapped ending.
That was definitely hinted at, though probably lost some steam with the 3rd dragon turning to the ice beast.
Link - ( New Window )
In the past bbi GoT posts were very careful abt spoilers. iirc, two posts were created often created, one for those who wanted to discuss only what occurred on the show and another thread for those that wanted to discuss the show and the books.
I think it’s coming but not necessarily as a heel turn per se. I think he will be doing it for good intentions but causes all kinds of shit and Danny will have no choice but to punish/execute him.
I did read the show runners were asked something along the lines of the show was going to ruin the ending of the books and they said
WEISS: It’s kind of nice for him because — obviously through necessity we’ve pulled out ahead — the show has become so different [in recent seasons] that people will have no way knowing from watching what will or won’t appear in the books. And honestly, neither do we.
BENIOFF: We don’t. And George discovers a lot of stuff while he’s writing. I don’t think that final book is written in stone yet — it’s not written on paper yet. As George says, he’s a gardener and he’s waiting to see how those seeds blossom.
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A Tyrion heel turn (so to speak) would be absolutely epic
I think it’s coming but not necessarily as a heel turn per se. I think he will be doing it for good intentions but causes all kinds of shit and Danny will have no choice but to punish/execute him.
Jamie will play a huge role in all of this. I think he could be the demise of Tyrion.
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In comment 14382309 Anakim said:
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A Tyrion heel turn (so to speak) would be absolutely epic
I think it’s coming but not necessarily as a heel turn per se. I think he will be doing it for good intentions but causes all kinds of shit and Danny will have no choice but to punish/execute him.
Jamie will play a huge role in all of this. I think he could be the demise of Tyrion.
Could be but I still think it’s going to be for good reasons not just him being a dick
Would be an epic twist but think there is less than zero chance that happens if that were possible
I don't think Cersei would have much of a chance against the White Walkers or against Dany and the North. They wouldn't need to join and the White walkers don't want or need an alliance.
Also - I don't think Stannis is dead. We never see Brienne decapitate him.
And finally I also think Tyrion is the bastard son of Tywin's wife and the Mad King (i.e., Dany's half brother and Jon's great uncle).
Also - I don't think Stannis is dead. We never see Brienne decapitate him.
And finally I also think Tyrion is the bastard son of Tywin's wife and the Mad King (i.e., Dany's half brother and Jon's great uncle).
It'd be interesting. Kind of a parallel to the Jon Snow story.
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I wouldn't mind it. I don't require a happy, gift wrapped ending.
A possibility..
Everyone has their favorite to take the throne, be it Jon, Dany, or any of the Laniisters ect,
Which also included the cast, but sadly, they got it all wrong. (after the final reading)
So it's very possible none of them chose the night walkers for the the highly coveted seat, or, it's a house that isn't getting any considerations, cause they're an absolute longshot for the throne.
My wife and I have speculated Tyrion somehow gets on the throne with Varys at his side. Dany has disappointed Tyrion on several occasions with her cruelty and referenced her father. The "Mad King" became mad after several years on the throne. Its possible Tyrion is concerned about the same happening to Dany.
Regarding the capture of Yara. When Euron left the throne room and told Cersi he will return with a prize for her he seemed pretty certain of where Yara and her fleet would be. Leads me to believe the snitch is in the Greyjoy camp.
BUt, if the Night King is a Stark himself, which has been speculated, then perhaps more is driving him than we think.
How was Benjen able to survive for so long out there? I do feel like there is more to the Stark connection than we think.
Could the Faceless men play a role here too?
Varys won't be by any ones side in the end. Melisandre said they both would be dead.
He saved Bran and Jon and we don't actually see him get killed.
There's more to the story there. Plus he looks kind of weird, the two times we see him.
This... He said he can't go back because the wall has magic meaning he was dead, but wasn't like a normal dead.
1. Bran is going to play a huge role in how this ends. Whether that is via the popular theory that I won't detail for those that don't want to hear it, or whether he changes the past somehow (we know he can via hold the door and Ned hearing him yell dad at the tower of joy).
2. Jamie is going to be the one to kill Cersei. The prophecy is that the Valonqar will choke the life from her. I suspect in the end Cersei will have her mad king moment (burn them all) and Jamie will have no choice.
3. While I do think it is possible the Night King wins, I think it is still more likely he falls while taking down most of the main characters in the process. I still believe Jon is Azor Ahai and will end up on the throne unless he doesn't want it. I think it is very possible Dany dies sacrificing herself for Jon.
Yeah and that makes me think the White Walkers and the Night King have some sort Stark lineage. If so, that would have made Benjen a sign of what could come. Could the Starks be the very Winter they spoke of? The biggest twist of all would be for the Starks to essentially be the big bad we have been waiting for without even knowing it and the Targayen family might be seen as the heroes here.
He saved Bran and Jon and we don't actually see him get killed.
There's more to the story there. Plus he looks kind of weird, the two times we see him.
He explains this, He was turning into a walker until he stopped it. However, he says the same magic that keeps the walkers from crossing the wall also prevents him from doing so.
2. Jamie is going to be the one to kill Cersei. The prophecy is that the Valonqar will choke the life from her. I suspect in the end Cersei will have her mad king moment (burn them all) and Jamie will have no choice.
I've predicted this as well. Jaime will try to reason with Cersei to surrender and instead of surrendering she will want the entire city to be destroyed with dragon fire. It was mentioned that there is dragon fire stored under most of the city which would likely be enough to take down the entire city. Jaime will have no choice once again but to kill Cersei only this time he will be hailed a hero for killing her.
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I am so excited for this season and have no idea what to expect. I have a few ideas:
2. Jamie is going to be the one to kill Cersei. The prophecy is that the Valonqar will choke the life from her. I suspect in the end Cersei will have her mad king moment (burn them all) and Jamie will have no choice.
I've predicted this as well. Jaime will try to reason with Cersei to surrender and instead of surrendering she will want the entire city to be destroyed with dragon fire. It was mentioned that there is dragon fire stored under most of the city which would likely be enough to take down the entire city. Jaime will have no choice once again but to kill Cersei only this time he will be hailed a hero for killing her.
Only other way is if he dies and somehow Arya gets his face but don’t see that very likely
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In comment 14382833 NYG07 said:
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I am so excited for this season and have no idea what to expect. I have a few ideas:
2. Jamie is going to be the one to kill Cersei. The prophecy is that the Valonqar will choke the life from her. I suspect in the end Cersei will have her mad king moment (burn them all) and Jamie will have no choice.
I've predicted this as well. Jaime will try to reason with Cersei to surrender and instead of surrendering she will want the entire city to be destroyed with dragon fire. It was mentioned that there is dragon fire stored under most of the city which would likely be enough to take down the entire city. Jaime will have no choice once again but to kill Cersei only this time he will be hailed a hero for killing her.
Only other way is if he dies and somehow Arya gets his face but don’t see that very likely
While I hope Jaime survives that would be really awesome to see.
Maybe Arya = Azor Ahai, then perhaps someone like the Hound = Nisa Nisa
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Forest. He couldn't go south because he's not really alive and the wall had magic "inscriptions" carved into it to keep the dead on one side.
This... He said he can't go back because the wall has magic meaning he was dead, but wasn't like a normal dead.
This has bothered me since Benjen said it in Season 6 Episode 10 when he drops Bran off. In Season 1 Episode 8, they bring two wights through the wall. Then in season 7, the bring the wight they show Cersei through the wall. I suppose they probably flew him over (or sailed around?) the wall, but it still seems like an awfully weak barrier. You would think Benjen would gotten on a boat at some point or had Meera pull him through on Bran's sled.
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In comment 14382818 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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Forest. He couldn't go south because he's not really alive and the wall had magic "inscriptions" carved into it to keep the dead on one side.
This... He said he can't go back because the wall has magic meaning he was dead, but wasn't like a normal dead.
This has bothered me since Benjen said it in Season 6 Episode 10 when he drops Bran off. In Season 1 Episode 8, they bring two wights through the wall. Then in season 7, the bring the wight they show Cersei through the wall. I suppose they probably flew him over (or sailed around?) the wall, but it still seems like an awfully weak barrier. You would think Benjen would gotten on a boat at some point or had Meera pull him through on Bran's sled.
So the other thing here is there is no more wall right? The Whitewalkers demolished it. Can Benjen come back now?
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In comment 14382823 Amtoft said:
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In comment 14382818 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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Forest. He couldn't go south because he's not really alive and the wall had magic "inscriptions" carved into it to keep the dead on one side.
This... He said he can't go back because the wall has magic meaning he was dead, but wasn't like a normal dead.
This has bothered me since Benjen said it in Season 6 Episode 10 when he drops Bran off. In Season 1 Episode 8, they bring two wights through the wall. Then in season 7, the bring the wight they show Cersei through the wall. I suppose they probably flew him over (or sailed around?) the wall, but it still seems like an awfully weak barrier. You would think Benjen would gotten on a boat at some point or had Meera pull him through on Bran's sled.
So the other thing here is there is no more wall right? The Whitewalkers demolished it. Can Benjen come back now?
If he were still "alive". I thought the implication was clear that he "died" when he was swamped by the white walker army as Jon rode away on Benjen's horse.