So me and the girlfriend are re-watching GoT in advance of Sunday's premiere and Tyrion's plan to have the Unsullied go to Casterly Rock while Yara and Co. ferry the Dornish north is a stroke of genius. We're led to believe that Jamie and Cersei figured out the plan and emptied Casterly Rock, took High Garden, the gold and all that fun stuff while Yuron kidnaps and delivers Yara and the Sand Snakes to Cersei. It's laid out that Jamie figures out the plan, counters and it's good night High Garden and Dorn.
I call bullshit. Jamie and Cersei are smart but they aren't see the future smart. So I started wondering, there has to be a rat at the meeting where the plan is laid out and therefore who benefits? So I think, that either Tyrion or Varys tells Jamie of the plan intentionally, to spare the Lannister Army because it will be needed against the Night King. So my thinking is this...Tyrion or Varys knows the long game, they need 1) lots of troops 2) a defensible position and 3) a ruse to defeat the night king. So Yuron sails to get the Gold Company, he returns without the full force because of mingling by one of the co-conspirators (Varys, Tyrion or Jamie). The Night King flies south to take King's Landing and its 1 million denizens, part of his army is drawn to Winterfell where Jon Snow draws it in and the Dragons burn it and Winterfell to the ground.
Now you have Jamie taking the Lannister Army north to keep his word, the Unsullied, the Dothraki Army, two dragons and Dany and Jon and they march south for the final showdown. I think Tyrion or Varys (or both) tell Jamie of the plan to get Dorn and High Garden in the game, to get Cersei confident and ultimately defeat her when the Gold Company comes up short and the Night King fails at making all of King's Landing part of his army. Tyrion's pain when the dragons roast the Lannister's bringing back high garden's gold is what made me think this. He does NOT want to kill Lannisters and it's not out of empathy it's because he knows that they need as many bodies, capable fighters, to defeat the Night King's Army. I think he has to be a rat after that meeting and he and Jamie hatch the long game to unseat Cersei and take the Night King. Tyrion's shock and disdain after the dragons roast Dickon (heh) and Randall Tarley and kill scores of Lannister men means he wants as many troops as he can get. Flame away.
I’m leaning towards Varys, since this has been hinted at many times. Looking forward to Sunday and the conclusion, even though I’m not ready for it to end yet
Also Jaime isn't traveling North with the army he is traveling North by himself.
Tyrion, one other factor that he's the mastermind behind a betrayal for Danny, was that final scene from season 7. It's bothered me for 2 years the look he had when he found out that Danny and Jon are hooking up. It was almost like a look on his face that this will screw up his plans. At least that was my take away from it. Otherwise, why else would he care if they are into each other?
Yes, that plan took place on episode 7x02. Jon arrived at Dragonstone on the following episode 7x03.
Jon then mentioned if that witch might not have been a reliable source and then at the end of that episode they hook up. Why go through all that if there weren't plans for Danny to be pregnant. If I had to guess, the show ends with a time lapse of several years, with Jon and Danny's kid sitting on the Iron Throne and Tyrion as their Hand.
By episode 4, Jon had told them about the Night King but no one took him seriously. It wasn't until episode 5/6 where a plan was made to capture a wight as evidence for Cersi. This all happened because Jon received a raven's message from Winterfell that Bran\Araya are alive and Bran saw a vision that the Night King's army are marching towards Eastwatch.
This is a Shakespearen tragedy ...easy to figure out how ir ends
This is a Shakespearen tragedy ...easy to figure out how ir ends
That’s how I see it.
And we know Ser Jorah is head over heels in love with Dany. Perhaps he betrays Dany.
1) Tyrion lied to Cersi (ala what he wanted Jon to do) to get a better understanding of what Cersi was up to. I think Tyrion now knows what Greyjoy was doing and they can anticipate the next move.
I think the NightKing is a Stark some way somehow. I am not convinced he is Brandon via worging but I do think he is a Stark from the past and the answer to him is in the Stark underground caverns and catacombs.
2) The Lord of LIGHT (whatever and whoever that is) will play a role in the battle with the NIGHTKING.
3) Anyone else wondering if the Hounds words to the Mountain that something else would be coming for him and he knows it, wondering if he meant himself or something else???
1) Tyrion lied to Cersi (ala what he wanted Jon to do) to get a better understanding of what Cersi was up to. I think Tyrion now knows what Greyjoy was doing and they can anticipate the next move.
I think the NightKing is a Stark some way somehow. I am not convinced he is Brandon via worging but I do think he is a Stark from the past and the answer to him is in the Stark underground caverns and catacombs.
2) The Lord of LIGHT (whatever and whoever that is) will play a role in the battle with the NIGHTKING.
3) Anyone else wondering if the Hounds words to the Mountain that something else would be coming for him and he knows it, wondering if he meant himself or something else???
I don’t think we are getting the Clegane Bowl, anymore. I was certain we would early on, but have slowly but surely felt otherwise recently.
There are so many clues leading to Melisandra being Nisa Nisa, so, yes, I do believe the LoL will play a big part in the ending. I believe she will sacrifice herself to form Lightbringer
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is the look Tyrion had on the ship when Jon Snow went in to bang Daenerys. Was it a look of jealousy or guilt because he agreed to betray her out of guilt for the deaths of his niece and nephews?
And we know Ser Jorah is head over heels in love with Dany. Perhaps he betrays Dany.
He already betrayed her b/c he was spying on her for Varys.
In Clash of Kings, she is told "three treasons that you will now - once for blood and once for gold and once for love"
From the article below, Tyrion could fit all three:
Blood (save Jamie)
Gold (House Lannister's colors)
Love (he loves his brother)
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14382148 Jay on the Island said:
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is the look Tyrion had on the ship when Jon Snow went in to bang Daenerys. Was it a look of jealousy or guilt because he agreed to betray her out of guilt for the deaths of his niece and nephews?
And we know Ser Jorah is head over heels in love with Dany. Perhaps he betrays Dany.
He already betrayed her b/c he was spying on her for Varys.
In Clash of Kings, she is told "three treasons that you will now - once for blood and once for gold and once for love"
From the article below, Tyrion could fit all three:
Blood (save Jamie)
Gold (House Lannister's colors)
Love (he loves his brother)
Link - ( New Window )
Right, but she forgave him after he risked her life for her and how he recovered from greyscale. It seems that when Jorah gets wind of what happened with Jon and Dany, he's going to go apeshit and fight Jon.
Who dies for the knife is also tricky. If its Jon does that mean Daenerys or Milasandre? If its the Hound could it be Arya or Sansa? If its Dany then Jon Snow (again getting stabbed in the heart)?
I can't wait.
I think Cersei's rule on "gold is king" vis a vis the iron bank ad guiding what she did with the tyrell loyalist and taking their gold. tyrion just got outflanked.
Who dies for the knife is also tricky. If its Jon does that mean Daenerys or Milasandre? If its the Hound could it be Arya or Sansa? If its Dany then Jon Snow (again getting stabbed in the heart)?
I can't wait.
Jon = Azor Ahai
Melisandre = Nisa Nisa
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the day. What isn't clear is who will be Azor Ahai. I've read many theories and I have no idea. It could be Dany or Milasandre (remember she did say the "Prince" didn't have to be a male), it could be Jon Snow, Bran, I've even seen a theory its The Hound!
Who dies for the knife is also tricky. If its Jon does that mean Daenerys or Milasandre? If its the Hound could it be Arya or Sansa? If its Dany then Jon Snow (again getting stabbed in the heart)?
I can't wait.
Jon = Azor Ahai
Melisandre = Nisa Nisa
One of the most sensible outcomes.
I don't think this is the craziest theory. I was going to mention that private meeting between Cersei and Tyrion after the huge summit in the dragon pit went awry - we never saw the conclusion of their discussion. Obviously Cersei comes out and lies about providing troops to fight the Night King, but is Tyrion aware of the plot? Probably not likely, but not crazy either.
This is a Shakespearen tragedy ...easy to figure out how ir ends
In interviews, Maisie Williams & Sophie Turner, ( Aria & Sansa) said they and other cast members, had drawn their own conclusions, on how the series shall end. (before the final read) However, not even one person, was correct.
They were all shocked, on how the story unfolded, upon that final read. So much so, Sophie Turner said she had to be consoled for days, after reading how it ended. They also agreed that most fans will be divided, on how it concludes.
Now, several of those cast members, also played Shakespearen roles throughout their career. So I highly doubt it ends like a Shakespearen tragedy. Cause surely they would've had those same thoughts.
I also read that the directors of the show want a 'Breaking Bad' type of fan reaction and discussion, amongst the fans of GOT, long after they see the finale. They said if that was to occur, then they've done their job. But did also say, they were nervous, that they won't actually get the reaction they're striving for.
I wouldn't mind it. I don't require a happy, gift wrapped ending.
That was definitely hinted at, though probably lost some steam with the 3rd dragon turning to the ice beast.
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In the past bbi GoT posts were very careful abt spoilers. iirc, two posts were created often created, one for those who wanted to discuss only what occurred on the show and another thread for those that wanted to discuss the show and the books.
I think it’s coming but not necessarily as a heel turn per se. I think he will be doing it for good intentions but causes all kinds of shit and Danny will have no choice but to punish/execute him.
I did read the show runners were asked something along the lines of the show was going to ruin the ending of the books and they said
WEISS: It’s kind of nice for him because — obviously through necessity we’ve pulled out ahead — the show has become so different [in recent seasons] that people will have no way knowing from watching what will or won’t appear in the books. And honestly, neither do we.
BENIOFF: We don’t. And George discovers a lot of stuff while he’s writing. I don’t think that final book is written in stone yet — it’s not written on paper yet. As George says, he’s a gardener and he’s waiting to see how those seeds blossom.
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A Tyrion heel turn (so to speak) would be absolutely epic
I think it’s coming but not necessarily as a heel turn per se. I think he will be doing it for good intentions but causes all kinds of shit and Danny will have no choice but to punish/execute him.
Jamie will play a huge role in all of this. I think he could be the demise of Tyrion.
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In comment 14382309 Anakim said:
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A Tyrion heel turn (so to speak) would be absolutely epic
I think it’s coming but not necessarily as a heel turn per se. I think he will be doing it for good intentions but causes all kinds of shit and Danny will have no choice but to punish/execute him.
Jamie will play a huge role in all of this. I think he could be the demise of Tyrion.
Could be but I still think it’s going to be for good reasons not just him being a dick
Would be an epic twist but think there is less than zero chance that happens if that were possible
I don't think Cersei would have much of a chance against the White Walkers or against Dany and the North. They wouldn't need to join and the White walkers don't want or need an alliance.
Also - I don't think Stannis is dead. We never see Brienne decapitate him.
And finally I also think Tyrion is the bastard son of Tywin's wife and the Mad King (i.e., Dany's half brother and Jon's great uncle).
Also - I don't think Stannis is dead. We never see Brienne decapitate him.
And finally I also think Tyrion is the bastard son of Tywin's wife and the Mad King (i.e., Dany's half brother and Jon's great uncle).
It'd be interesting. Kind of a parallel to the Jon Snow story.