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Is TE Hockensen an option at 6?

1st and 10 : 4/11/2019 9:18 am
We have all heard it dozens of times from management and the press, the Giants take the BPA at their slot. We can all dissect how true that statement is or not, but I believe there is a level of truth to it.

With that, if the top players targeted for our D at 6 are taken ahead of our pick (Bosa, Allen, Q. W, White), is Hockensen the next BPA and is he even a possibility at 6?

Now I am not arguing for or against this pick, but I have a feeling he is the player we are all discounting to be picked at the 6th slot, am I wrong?

I know D is more of a priority, but who is the better player between Sweat, Oliver and Hockensen, which might be what we see on draft day?
Check out  
Mr. Bungle : 4/11/2019 9:23 am : link
this
thread - ( New Window )
It would be a head scratcher  
Oscar : 4/11/2019 9:23 am : link
Skill position players are the last thing you need to add. The Giants have a crumbled foundation they need to rebuild. But they took Saquon last year so you never know.
I would not rule him out, but  
section125 : 4/11/2019 9:23 am : link
DG is pretty clear lines and defense in particular need to be fixed.
I hope not  
TyreeHelmet : 4/11/2019 9:24 am : link
Get a pass rusher
If they truly wanted to replicate the NE offense  
Tony in Berlin : 4/11/2019 9:25 am : link
drafting Hockenson would make a lot of sense. There will still be good DE/DTs available at 17, maybe even at 37.
One way to look at it is run blocking  
edavisiii : 4/11/2019 9:28 am : link
I am not for it, I want Pass Rush at 6 and 17 but adding him to the offense would be a big plus for the run game. He is and absolute beast run blocking and he is a tall target for Eli.
Fix this Defense PLEEEEASE  
Jim Bur(n)t : 4/11/2019 9:29 am : link
If it was a marginally talented Def Draft, then I would say, sure... But the odds are that this draft is stocked with Blue & Light Blue Chip talent... I say pass on the very talented TE @ 6...

If he is still there @ 17 (he wont be) but if he is,, then a legit conversation is warranted.
I sure hope not  
jc in c-ville : 4/11/2019 9:30 am : link
If G is true to his word, he will build the line around Barkley and soon to be ( next year at the latest) QB while also getting after the QB from the DL.

This team is obviously not a quick fix but taking two Te's in the 1st round, 2/3 years is hopefully not the way they go with a blue chip at either OT or DL/Edge.

My sincere hope is that they stick to their guns for #6/17 and either OL/D or D/D. If there should be a trade up, use the # 37 to get back into the 1st round. If we come away with three difference makers ( perhaps a LB/CB as well) here I will be elated.



Sure, if youre Jerry Reese.  
Brown Recluse : 4/11/2019 9:30 am : link
He got fired though.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/11/2019 9:31 am : link
He won't be the best player on the board there.

I like the player a lot, but not at 6.
Love the player but he's not going to be selected at #6  
ij_reilly : 4/11/2019 9:33 am : link
I would think the Giants love him too. But ...

But most everything coming from Giants and asshats indicates defense at #6.

If not defense it would be a QB, but indications are that the Giants don't love any of these QBs. They almost certainly have a few defensive players ranked higher than the QBs.

Those defensive players might be ranked higher than Hockenson on their board too.

Remember they would have picked Chubb last year if not for Barkley. Stop the run, rush the passer.
Option? IMHO ...  
Beer Man : 4/11/2019 9:34 am : link
1. Yes, only because he will likely be there at #6 when the Giants are on the clock

2. It is very unlikely that the Giants have him ranked higher on their draft board than a number of other players that should be there as well. Its possible he will be on the board when they pick at 17.
Incredibly hypocritical  
wonderback : 4/11/2019 9:37 am : link
By a lot of you guys. I'm not saying to take him at 6 but, what happened to best player on the board you take him stuff. I've been hearing that for years. It's not beyond argument that given some of the better d-lineman are taken off the board, he's the next best player available.

As some pointed out, he's not just an additional receiver, he's also a great blocker. People forget that the TE sets the edge and can be a great compliment to either offensive tackle. Add to that, we haven't had a guy like him since Bavaro.

I'm not saying take him, but it wouldn't be crazy if we did.
If he is their top rated player  
Big Rick in FL : 4/11/2019 9:42 am : link
Then yes take him. He's a TE, but he adds so much to the offense. He's a great blocker and a good receiver. He'd help the OL, Barkley & the QB out a ton. Especially Eli or whatever QB we have after Eli. Can help in pass protection and also be the teams safety blanket. The most complete TE to come out in a long time.
Very good chance he's the BPA  
Biteymax22 : 4/11/2019 9:43 am : link
If first 5 picks are Murray, Williams, Bosa, Allen and White. Which is a very likely scenario.

But does that mean we should pick him? Maybe not, too many other glaring needs. If this were the case, I think there is an opportunity to trade down with a team like Detroit who may want him, only move back 2 spots, get more assets and still draft the same person we would have anyway (Sweat, Oliver or Gary). Then we could use the extra assets to move up from the 17th pick to target the second player we want.

Just sayin...
It would make more sense  
SirYesSir : 4/11/2019 9:47 am : link
if they decided that Engram was more of a wideout. If they decide to use EE in a similar way that they would use a big wr and just slide Hock into the TE role for 10 years, then yes it makes sense.

the most overrated prospect in the draft IMHO  
GiantsLaw : 4/11/2019 9:49 am : link
and not at a postion of real need....I hope to hell not
Take the best defensive player at 6  
NYG27 : 4/11/2019 9:52 am : link
Then trade up from 17 with all the draft capital the Giants have to select Hockensen.
RE: the most overrated prospect in the draft IMHO  
Big Rick in FL : 4/11/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14382189 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
and not at a postion of real need....I hope to hell not


Why do you think he is overrated? He certainly isn't the most overrated player. DK Metcalf & Rashan Gary are two names who are much worse football players that are projected in the top 20.
RE: Sure, if youre Jerry Reese.  
JohnB : 4/11/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14382145 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
He got fired though.


Reese would be all over Gary, not Hockensen.
Selfishly I'd like it  
widmerseyebrow : 4/11/2019 10:15 am : link
but it's probably not the best move for the team.
RE: RE: the most overrated prospect in the draft IMHO  
GiantsLaw : 4/11/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14382202 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14382189 GiantsLaw said:
Why do you think he is overrated?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a solid player, but a top 10 projection is crazy talk.
RE: the most overrated prospect in the draft IMHO  
jvm52106 : 4/11/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14382189 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
and not at a postion of real need....I hope to hell not


Wow, really.. Why do you say that? Most overrated is Haskins by far. Limited track record, decent skills but nothing earth shattering. Next up, Metcalfe. Limited production, injury history and basically a workout warrior.

Hard to believe you feel Hockensen is the most overrated.
Hockensen  
Archer : 4/11/2019 10:29 am : link
I have heard that Hockensen is the number one rated offensive player on many teams boards.
He is also considered the safest pick.

The Giants have to draft an impact defensive player at #6.

It is too bad because drafting a TE like Hockensen improves two positions. You have a superior blocking TE to improve the run game and pass protection and the Giants can utilize Engram as a H Back or X receiver.

RE: RE: the most overrated prospect in the draft IMHO  
GiantsLaw : 4/11/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14382251 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 14382189 GiantsLaw said:
Most overrated is Haskins by far.

I can see that. Maybe most was too much...but Haskins is also falling while the TJ hype is still going strong.
No.  
AcidTest : 4/11/2019 10:43 am : link
The Giants will draft a defensive player. But they should be open to a small trade down with someone who wants Hockensen.
RE: Hockensen  
clarkie02360 : 4/11/2019 10:46 am : link
if our defense wasn't in such need a Engram/Hockensen two headed monster could look a lot alike Hernandez & Gronk.

In comment 14382264 Archer said:
Quote:
I have heard that Hockensen is the number one rated offensive player on many teams boards.
He is also considered the safest pick.

The Giants have to draft an impact defensive player at #6.

It is too bad because drafting a TE like Hockensen improves two positions. You have a superior blocking TE to improve the run game and pass protection and the Giants can utilize Engram as a H Back or X receiver.
The Giants drafting BPA is a myth  
ZogZerg : 4/11/2019 10:46 am : link
that has been spread on BBI for years.

The Giants have almost always drafted by "BPA at a position of significant Need". It is almost never solely BPA.

Since TE is not a position of significant need, there is almost ZERO chance they go TE at #6.
I 've been all about defense early in the draft, but  
carpoon : 4/11/2019 10:47 am : link
wouldn't it be nice to ram a Witten-type TE down Dallas's throat for the next ten years.
RE: It would be a head scratcher  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/11/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14382130 Oscar said:
Quote:
Skill position players are the last thing you need to add. The Giants have a crumbled foundation they need to rebuild. But they took Saquon last year so you never know.


It would seem that you have no idea how to draft.
He's good, but a little overrated. He's not great at getting  
Ira : 4/11/2019 10:55 am : link
separation and, while he's a good in line blocker, he wiffs a lot when blocking in space. I definitely would pass at 6 and probably would pass at 17. IMO, he's a late first rounder - a little better than Irv Smith.
I'm fine with using Ellison in this role and splitting EE out  
PatersonPlank : 4/11/2019 11:15 am : link
Ellison showed enough pass catching ability to do this, he's a great blocker, and he's already here.
He could very well be the best player on the board.....  
MOOPS : 4/11/2019 11:21 am : link
at #6. If we're not taking him (likely), get the word out that nonetheless he's an option. Maybe we can get an offer for the pick that we can't refuse.
I agree with you  
Vegas Steve : 4/11/2019 11:26 am : link
He is being overlooked here at the BBI. Yes I do feel he is the best player available at #6. (Actually I Want Burns at #6).

We all want the Defense too be rebuilt simply because our Defense has been gutted by trades and last season we lost at least 5 games because the defense could not make a stop.

If we were to take him it's a major step forward for both the running and passing game and we have 11 other selections to shore up the Defense.

If we are waiting till next year to draft or trade for a QB then it would be in our best interest to put all the pieces together on the offense to give the heir apparent all the tools he will need to be successful.

no way, he wasnt even the best TE on his team  
gtt350 : 4/11/2019 11:34 am : link
.
I also like Fant more  
GiantsLaw : 4/11/2019 12:09 pm : link
same size, better athlete and reciever.
RE: I'm fine with using Ellison in this role and splitting EE out  
wonderback : 4/11/2019 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14382389 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Ellison showed enough pass catching ability to do this, he's a great blocker, and he's already here.


He's not a great blocker. I've watched him specifically. He gets blown up often at the point of attack. He's an OK receiver and an OK blocker. He also gets paid a lot of money. I don't like him. He hurts the offense significantly. Hockenson would improves this offense by leaps and bounds. He'll set the edge. He'll help on pass blocking. He'll improve our OL play in general.

Are there greater needs? Sure. But I could sure see why we'd want him.
RE: Check out  
DavidinBMNY : 4/11/2019 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14382129 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
this thread - ( New Window )
He's worth that pick but maybe more to another team. A slew of Picks at 6 could help this team out - if there aren't gold jacket players as DG says left.
RE: The Giants drafting BPA is a myth  
Beer Man : 4/11/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14382307 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
that has been spread on BBI for years.

The Giants have almost always drafted by "BPA at a position of significant Need". It is almost never solely BPA.

Since TE is not a position of significant need, there is almost ZERO chance they go TE at #6.
Yes and no. The Giants will have a draft board and rank their players accordingly. We don't know the team's calculus that goes behind the rankings, but I would bet 'position of need' is one of the factors considered when ranking players.
I hope not  
WillVAB : 4/11/2019 1:47 pm : link
This would be a typical Reese pick.
If he can impact  
kes722 : 4/11/2019 1:52 pm : link
The game like Whitten or Gronk then why not?

I would like one of the D studs like everyone else but he could turn our O into a top 5.

Think of when the Pat's had Gronk and Hernandez. Now add better recievers and the best back in the NFL.

Again Inwould rather a stud DL but wouldn't be pissed
Where is Terps?  
bw in dc : 4/11/2019 2:12 pm : link
He loves Hock.

Hock is an excellent prospect, but I don't think the separation is that great between Smith and him. Smith is not the blocker (yet) but he's every bit the receiver. And I think will be a steal if he falls into the second round...
.  
arcarsenal : 4/11/2019 2:33 pm : link
Big Irv!

NO  
bluesince56 : 4/11/2019 2:46 pm : link
Defense first
.  
Go Terps : 4/11/2019 2:47 pm : link
As I see it, there are maybe 3 or 4 blue chip guys in this draft: Williams, Bosa, Allen, and Hockenson.

If one of the other three is available to us at #6, go for it. That appears unlikely though unless we see some trades up for the non-Murray QBs (none of whom are even first rounders, IMO).

To me that leaves Hockenson as the best pick. I'd certainly take him over Gary, who right now seems like the most probable pick.
RE: Sure, if youre Jerry Reese.  
giantsFC : 4/11/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14382145 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
He got fired though.


hahahaha!
bw  
Go Terps : 4/11/2019 2:55 pm : link
I believe in building to a strength if you can. I don't see a path to making our defense a strength with one or two picks in this draft. I can, however, see a path to making our offensive line a strength: Hockenson @ 6, Bradbury @ 17, and Tytus Howard @ 37.

Do that, and this is your OL in 12 personnel:

TJ-Solder-Hernandez-Bradbury-Zeitler-Howard-Ellison

You think Barkley will be able to run behind that? I do. Throw in Engram as a Swiss Army knife (like Ebron in Indy), and you've got something.
RE: It would make more sense  
joeinpa : 4/11/2019 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14382182 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
if they decided that Engram was more of a wideout. If they decide to use EE in a similar way that they would use a big wr and just slide Hock into the TE role for 10 years, then yes it makes sense.


See that s my question. What happens Ingram
RE: It would make more sense  
joeinpa : 4/11/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14382182 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
if they decided that Engram was more of a wideout. If they decide to use EE in a similar way that they would use a big wr and just slide Hock into the TE role for 10 years, then yes it makes sense.


Engram sorry
He should be  
jeff57 : 4/11/2019 3:42 pm : link
But probably isnít.
NO  
bluetothegrave : 4/11/2019 3:51 pm : link
We need d so bad and we have a great pass catching TE (or potentially great) Another year or a stronger younger D and Id say take Dillard or Hockenson if that's who we have rated highest but this year we need D. We need to rebuild our D. I think our Offense can be really good right now.
RE: Where is Terps?  
Vanzetti : 4/11/2019 6:27 pm : link
In comment 14382777 bw in dc said:
Quote:
He loves Hock.

Hock is an excellent prospect, but I don't think the separation is that great between Smith and him. Smith is not the blocker (yet) but he's every bit the receiver. And I think will be a steal if he falls into the second round...


Irv could be the pick at 37.
No chance at 6  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2019 6:31 pm : link
17 heís in play but likely gone.
RE: No chance at 6  
MojoEd : 4/11/2019 6:43 pm : link
In comment 14383045 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
17 heís in play but likely gone.

I think you are right, but itís not impossible. No one expected OJ Howard to make it to pick #19, but he did.
.  
Go Terps : 4/11/2019 6:44 pm : link
If Bosa, Williams, and Allen are gone who is the player that's clearly a better pick than Hockenson?
I find it laughable when people refer to this guy as a "luxury"  
j_rud : 4/11/2019 7:02 pm : link
as if adding one of the top prospects in the draft is a lavishness that a roster largely devoid of talent simply can not afford.
RE: Where is Terps?  
Klaatu : 4/11/2019 7:08 pm : link
In comment 14382777 bw in dc said:
Quote:
He loves Hock.


Loves him enough to draft him, but probably not enough to give him a second contract.
RE: RE: Where is Terps?  
Go Terps : 4/11/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14383076 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14382777 bw in dc said:


Quote:


He loves Hock.



Loves him enough to draft him, but probably not enough to give him a second contract.


I'd pay a top tight end, happily.
Tight end pay scale  
Go Terps : 4/11/2019 7:12 pm : link
The top paid TE in the league, Travis Kelce, is making about as much as what we just paid Sterling Shepard.
RE: Tight end pay scale  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2019 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14383080 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The top paid TE in the league, Travis Kelce, is making about as much as what we just paid Sterling Shepard.


He signed it 3 years ago. How is this ok but paying a RB slightly more than what Shepard got, isnít?
RE: RE: RE: Where is Terps?  
Klaatu : 4/11/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14383077 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14383076 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14382777 bw in dc said:


Quote:


He loves Hock.



Loves him enough to draft him, but probably not enough to give him a second contract.



I'd pay a top tight end, happily.


Sure, you say that now, but.....
RE: RE: Tight end pay scale  
Go Terps : 4/11/2019 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14383084 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14383080 Go Terps said:


Quote:


The top paid TE in the league, Travis Kelce, is making about as much as what we just paid Sterling Shepard.



He signed it 3 years ago. How is this ok but paying a RB slightly more than what Shepard got, isnít?


Todd Gurley's not making slightly more than what Shepard got. In '20 and '21 his cap hit is going to be really high.

Running back and tight end are different positions, with different influences on the game, different shelf lives, and different ease of replacement. Apples to oranges.
Yes I know  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2019 7:37 pm : link
just funny to see you cite a 3 year old contract. Kelce would be making a ton more in 2019. Heck, jimmy graham just made $10 million and did nothing.
Is TE Hockensen an option at 6?  
Torrag : 4/11/2019 10:14 pm : link
Not for me. I think he's a good, complete TE but I don't see a Gronk type difference maker. That's what it would take at #6 to pull the trigger imo.
BB will end up getting  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/11/2019 10:18 pm : link
him.
BB will end up getting SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10:18 pm  
Torrag : 4/11/2019 10:20 pm : link
Not at his current draft position he won't...but he does have 12 picks so it's possible.
have you seen our defense?  
blueblood : 4/11/2019 10:25 pm : link
no
RE: Is TE Hockensen an option at 6?  
santacruzom : 4/12/2019 12:41 am : link
In comment 14383241 Torrag said:
Quote:
Not for me. I think he's a good, complete TE but I don't see a Gronk type difference maker. That's what it would take at #6 to pull the trigger imo.


When Gronk was a prospect even he wasn't seen as a Gronk type difference msker.
When Gronk was a prospect  
Torrag : 4/12/2019 12:47 am : link
The point is Gronk was a great prospect and he went #42. This guy is the #6 overall? C'mon.
Run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer...  
kelsto811 : 4/12/2019 12:50 am : link
I honestly think DG meant this when he said it. If you focus on that and combine it with BPA, I don't see how you can justify a TE at 6 overall. I would be shocked if they took anything other than QB or front 7 with their first pick.
Just to be clear I'm not disparaging the young man  
Torrag : 4/12/2019 12:53 am : link
But this is a draft deep in pass rushers, DL and at least one Top 10 QB. I'd say the window for Hockensen is between 12 and 18. You never say never in the Draft but I sincerely doubt he cracks the Top 10.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 4/12/2019 1:02 am : link
In comment 14382824 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I believe in building to a strength if you can. I don't see a path to making our defense a strength with one or two picks in this draft. I can, however, see a path to making our offensive line a strength: Hockenson @ 6, Bradbury @ 17, and Tytus Howard @ 37.

Do that, and this is your OL in 12 personnel:

TJ-Solder-Hernandez-Bradbury-Zeitler-Howard-Ellison

You think Barkley will be able to run behind that? I do. Throw in Engram as a Swiss Army knife (like Ebron in Indy), and you've got something.


I've promoted Bradbury the last few weeks. In fact, I've said I would actually love him at #17. So I do like that idea.

However, here is the problem - this is a defensive rich draft. Very deep. Maybe the strongest in 10+ years. Some think it's so deep that every team could take a defender leading up to the Pats pick at #32, and the Pats could still get a first round grade defender.

So I think we need to take advantage of that with our conspicuous needs on D. We have a real chance to get a difference maker at #6. A chance, for example, to get an upper-tier edge player like Allen/Sweat. Guys who have the ability to instantly increase our chances to get off the field on third down. I'd much rather have that skill than a super-talented TE like Hock.

Strategy evolves the nearer we get to the draft. I'm starting to like the idea of getting the hell out of the 6th spot and moving down to compile more picks, either in this draft or next year's.

Look, I certainly see your angle and think it has merit. I just don't think it's the best way to manage the assets in the draft...
But if it is  
santacruzom : 4/12/2019 1:44 am : link
A very DEEP defensive draft, why be compelled to take a defender at 6?
RE: But if it is  
bw in dc : 4/12/2019 7:27 am : link
In comment 14383308 santacruzom said:
Quote:
A very DEEP defensive draft, why be compelled to take a defender at 6?


Because itís just as important to stop someone as it is to score.
But if the draft is deep defensively  
santacruzom : 4/12/2019 9:58 am : link
That suggests the Giants could still acquire upper tier defensive talent at 17 and even 37 should they happen to pass on defense at 6.

Arguing the talent pool is deep is not compatible with saying they had better draft defense at 6, or else.
No  
TD : 4/12/2019 9:18 pm : link
My guess is top 6 are Allen, Williams, Bosa, Murray, Sweat, Burns are the top 6 with Oliver, Lock and White as possibilities.
RE: It would be a head scratcher  
Jersey55 : 4/13/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14382130 Oscar said:
Quote:
Skill position players are the last thing you need to add. The Giants have a crumbled foundation they need to rebuild. But they took Saquon last year so you never know.
if the Giants really do draft BPA at a position of need then our first round pick is wide open and could be almost anybody...
is he 6th  
bc4life : 4/13/2019 4:04 pm : link
best player available? Doubtful.
drafting a TE is likely  
bc4life : 4/13/2019 4:13 pm : link
But, it won't be Hockensen. Giants won't touch him before 37 and I think he's gone by then.

So, based on who is left after Hockensen is gone. And Giants will want someone more "NFL blocking ready" think someone like Irv Smith is more likely (3rd round ?)
RE: is he 6th  
Eman11 : 4/13/2019 4:44 pm : link
In comment 14385103 bc4life said:
Quote:
best player available? Doubtful.


I've seen a couple of respected draft rankings and they have him right in that area, and the highest rated offensive player on their lists.
RE: But if it is  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/13/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14383308 santacruzom said:
Quote:
A very DEEP defensive draft, why be compelled to take a defender at 6?


The point is that the biggest impact player is likely to be a defender at 6.
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