Hey folks, if you have any questions, drop them here & I will answer as many as I can this evening, thanks. Just an FYI though. It seems the forum is getting a little agitated? Well, here's the thing. You dog another member or curse on any of my posts, well that's not going to fly here, cool? Remember, everyone are fans and I'd hate to see blood pressure go up, thanks
Thanks Dave, love your stuff 😎
Clemson
Amani Oruwariye
Penn State
David Long
Michigan
Justin Layne
Michigan State
Sean Bunting
Central Michigan
Julian Love
Notre Dame
Joejuan Williams
Vanderbilt
A lot of people are getting excited about Mecole Hardman, at a minimum for his special teams skills, and most optimistically as a Tyreek Hill type player down the road. What are your thoughts on him?
What players do you think would make the best transition into the pro game at edge rusher?
If you could bet, would you say Daniel Jones will go 15 or prior, or would you say the 'Skins will trade for Josh Rosen?
Also, if Haskins slides to #17, would Gettleman take him there or punt on QB in the first round?
I will not profess to know enough about football, nor am I qualified to critique any move by the front office.
If you were GM for the Giants what would your plan be at the position?
Thanks for sharing your craft with us fans.
Thanks
Pick # 17 could be QB, OL , WR, DL, LB, CB....who do you think is a good target with that pick. I like Devon Bush.
Pick #37: Is there a QB that you think is a possible target: Finley, Grier, Stidham? I would prefer a trade for Rosen myself.
Pick #95: will Tytus Howard last until this pick?
Thanks Dave!! You da man!
as for Haskins at 6 or 17, I do not make guarantees, but for the reports I have to provide the team on draft day, Haskins never came up in the talks.
How many of the top tackle prospects do you anticipate to come off the board in round one? I keep reading that a prospect like Dalton Risner may make it to 37. Personally, I think Dillard, Taylor, Williams, Risner, Ford all are gone in round one.
Are there any players the Giants have been looking at (have requested reports on) for there top 3 picks that haven't been widely discussed on this message board?
And thanks for attempts to keep this site decent and respectful.
Shame that a few bad apples have had such an impact on this site and what can be discussed.
4/11/19, 11:43 AM
The NYGiants have signed DB Henre' Toliver, who previously played in the AAF and spent time with the Indianapolis Colts.
What can you tell us about him and does he fit Bettcher's scheme?
Dave, thanks for these chats! What Atlanta radio station are you on? I'll try to catch youu on there.
Roger that Dave. Thanks!
Thanks again for all your insight!
Is that tendency problematic? Do you think the NFL team will coach him out of that?
What's the perception of the on field personality of Jones, Lock, Haskins?
What order do you think these three will be drafted (with KM being the 1st QB off the board)?
THANK YOU!
And let me add FUCK FRENCH'S.
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Gulden's! Is there any other?
THANK YOU!
And let me add FUCK FRENCH'S.
Lol, I agree. Nothin yellow here
as for Haskins at 6 or 17, I do not make guarantees, but for the reports I have to provide the team on draft day, Haskins never came up in the talks.
Woah. Miami moving up for a QB at 3 would be huge for the Giants. Oak probably goes Allen then because they have 5 DTs currently on the roster and need to fill Macks spot. Then Tampa is in LOVE with White. Would they take Q over White? If not Q is there for NYG at 6
They are eyeing AJ Brown. Giants stress polished route runners and probably want some size with tate and Shep. I hope they like Butler too.
Miller is no way in the class with those guys bubba, but he brings good Day 3 value. He's another guy I see 3-4 LB destined. My fave Day 3 guy is Van Ginkel though
I'm not a draft guy, I analyze & research. Gary is among my top ten guys. Now if DT was picking for DG? I'm going Hock at 6 & following him to a bunch of pro bowls
Year One-learn the playbook
Year Two-apply what you learn
Year Three-insert that knowledge into the first unit
Year Four-if year three fails, find a replacement
One last thing to get off my chest, as it is almost laughable here- those adhering to the Jimmy Johnson Draft Value Board from the early 90s. I am so glad Bill B took that issue on yesterday - nobody uses that chart anymore - everyone has their own sense of value.
If I'm a GM & another GM pulls out that chart on me? I'll need to change my pants from laughing so hard.
Giants fans-you got 12 picks, 12! You going to be out on the ledge with each one, you are going to have suicide squads dispatched all over the city. Calm down, get a brown bag and breathe into it. There you go bubba, no matter what they do, you are still going to be Giants fans. It's in our DNA
Year One-learn the playbook
Year Two-apply what you learn
Year Three-insert that knowledge into the first unit
Year Four-if year three fails, find a replacement
One last thing to get off my chest, as it is almost laughable here- those adhering to the Jimmy Johnson Draft Value Board from the early 90s. I am so glad Bill B took that issue on yesterday - nobody uses that chart anymore - everyone has their own sense of value.
If I'm a GM & another GM pulls out that chart on me? I'll need to change my pants from laughing so hard.
Giants fans-you got 12 picks, 12! You going to be out on the ledge with each one, you are going to have suicide squads dispatched all over the city. Calm down, get a brown bag and breathe into it. There you go bubba, no matter what they do, you are still going to be Giants fans. It's in our DNA
Dave, this is absolutely fantastic!! Thank you!!
GIA keep all their picks. An edge at 6 or 17 then a day 3 guy like you mentioned. If they take OL/DL/QB i could see CW from Michigan at 37.....thoughts?????
Thanks Rick
I think Murray needs to be in Kingsbury's system, but I caution that he looks like a "flight risk" to me if things don't go his way in an instant. I was never a Haskins guy, but after his workout - that dude was hitting the water bottle as soon as he got there. He has that James Harris arm, but also the slow thinking process & look at OSU's horrible numbers in the red zone & on third down. Home run TDs aside, you do that in the NFL & more often a CB makes a Pro Bowl playing vs Haskins. Lock has lots of good qualities except for one - he's not the one to lead ya to the promised land.
If the Giants use a 7th round pick or Barkley convinces him to sign as a FA, Trace McSorley might surprise ya. Kill me in September on that one, but something is cooking there
I have watch all of his games....nope. great guy, hope he makes it in the NFL, as some kind of convert...but not QB.
Thanks Dave!
You mention Gettleman going defence in the first 2 rounds, which I agree with.
Who do you see as really good targets to play a 5-tech role in Bettcher's schemes?
The Cardinals drafted Haasan Reddick to play LB in Bettcher's system, do you think we could be considering Brian Burns in a similar style of role?
Oh noes dont say that...they need to pick Bosa!
Giants cant take Gary that would be a momental disaster.
Dave ...rank these guys on best guess of current Giants board:
Q.Will
Bosa
Allen
Gary
White
Oliver
Sweat
Burns
Florida State University Seminoles
6:04.6-249
Agility Tests...4.53 in the 40-yard dash…1.54 10-yard dash…2.62 20-yard dash…no 20-yard shuttle…7.01 three-cone drill…36-inch vertical jump…10'-09" broad jump…No bench press...33 7/8--inch arm length…10 1/2-inch hands…83 5/8-inch wingspan.
College Career...Burns played in 38 games for the Seminoles, as he registered 124 tackles (72 solos), 24.0 sacks for minus 171 yards, 39.5 stops for losses of 218 yards and fourteen quarterback pressures. Additionally, he caused seven fumbles and recovered two others while blocking three kicks and defending seven passes.
Background...Despite being a five-star recruit, few outside the Florida State staff expected Burn, a whole 218 pounds at his enrollment, would one day turn into one of the school's most prolific pass rushers. He had guided American Heritage High School to back-to-back state titles, coming up with a combined 135 tackles and 28 sacks over his junior and senior seasons.
Burns seized a starting opportunity at strong-side end in 2016. Despite his slight frame, he paced the Seminoles with 9.5 sacks that year, making 10.5 stops-for-loss among his 24 tackles. With ten pounds of bulk added prior to his sophomore season, Burns saw his sack numbers drop to 4.5 in 2017, but he led the team with 48 tackles and excelled in other areas of his game, accounting for 13.5 stops behind the line of scrimmage, four pass deflections and three forced fumbles.
Burns arrived on campus a solid 235 pounds last season. With the team struggling, he was one of their few bright spots, as he led the team with ten sacks (15th on FSU's season list) and 15.5 stops-for-loss among 52 total tackles. He pressured the pocket eight times, causing three fumbles in the process. He currently ranks sixth in both tackles-for-loss (39.5, seventh-best in school history) and sacks (24.0) among current NCAA FBS performers. Only Reinard Wilson (35.5; 1993-96), Peter Boulware (34.0; 1994-96) and Ron Simmons (25.0; 1977-80) have ever recorded more sacks in a Florida State uniform.
The Scouting Report
Athletic Ability...Burns has an angular frame with developed upper body muscle tone, thick and long arms, large hands, good bubble and solid thickness in his thighs and calves. He has the ability to add at least 10-15 pounds to his frame with no loss in quickness and actually added fifteen pounds after the 2018 season, but still ran 4.56 at the Combine. He has the build that you look for more so in a strong-side linebacker than a down lineman, but will need to add more bulk if a team plans to play him with his hand down at the next level.
Burns has the sudden initial quickness needed to gain advantage on a slower offensive lineman. He shows very good flexibility and balance working down the line and does a nice job of flattening and changing direction to provide inside gap containment. He has the speed to chase and run coming from the backside and impressive strength for a 249-pound player. He’s a quick twitch athlete with good hand placement to keep blockers away from his feet. He shows good agility to split traffic and takes good angles coming off the edge as a pass rusher. He carries his weight well, showing good balance and body control working his way down the line and has the second gear to generate long pursuit. When playing on the edge, he keeps his pads down and head on a swivel, as he compensates for a lack of ideal bulk with very active hands to deliver counter moves and slip off blocks. He is very shifty on the move, with the stop-&-go agility to immediately change direction. He has the vision to locate the crease and does an excellent job of using his burst to close and pressure the pocket.
Pursuit Skills... Burns has that quick first step that will usually see him gain advantage on a slower offensive lineman. He can get up field quickly and reaches the corners with good urgency to push the outside running game back in (see 2018 Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Miami games). He has the lateral range to slip into the backfield when working in-line and with his quick hands and feet, he has no problem retreating and chasing down receivers when working in the second level (might be considered as a Sam linebacker because of this).
He has the acceleration to take a wide loop around the corner and still pressure the pocket. He stays low in his pads and has the loose hips to redirect, also displaying the second gear needed to excel in long pursuit. He is a quick twitch type with very active hands and good balance, keeping his feet on the move while doing a nice job of avoiding low blocks.
Strength at the Point of Attack…Despite being just 249 pounds, Burns’s weight room strength (370-pound bench press) easily translates to the football field, but when he exposes his chest and gets his hands outside his frame, blockers do have success in washing him away from the play (trick is to lock on to his jersey when he fails to protect his chest). He relies more on beating blocks with his quickness, but has the hand punch to push back lead blockers when playing in gap containment. Earlier in his career, he did not use his hands effectively to get off blocks and that would open the rush gate. He is much more effective utilizing his power when on the move, rather than when trying to maintain position at the line of scrimmage. He will still occasionally get stuck on “big people,” but when he keeps his hands active, he has good success in attempts to play off blocks.
Hand Usage...Burns has become more conscious in keeping his hands inside his frame and staying active with them to play off blocks. His ability to reroute tight ends and short area receivers might benefit him greatly, if he moves to linebacker. He has the strength to shock and shed quickly, especially when he explodes into the blocker. With his reach and hand strength, he has become much more effective in keeping separation vs. the run and to press the edge when rushing the quarterback. He has a good array of moves and cross-over action to slip off the shoulder of a blocker and pursue the quarterback.
Tackling Ability... Burns has that ease-of-movement that most linebackers wish they had, making him very dangerous as an edge rusher. He is an active, high energy type that plays the game on his feet. He can disengage quickly on the move and shows the burst needed to chase down the ball when in pursuit. He is very good at running down plays along the perimeter and opponents have averaged just 0.39 yards per rushing attempt vs. him in 2018, a stark contrast from his freshman campaign (5.64-yard average).
Burns became much more assertive as a tackler during his junior year. He has the quickness to slip off blocks and the strength to deliver explosive pop on contact. He might lack the size you look for in a down lineman, but is functional in attempts to roll and drive when taking on initial contact. His body control lets him stay low in his pads and his loose hips are evident by the way he fluidly changes direction. When he wraps up an opponent, he will generally make the tackle.
Run Defense... Burns might lack the “sand in his pants” to win one-on-one battles with much bigger offensive linemen, but he has become an effective leverage player, thanks to his hand usage and ability to generate a strong punch to shock and jolt upon contact. He might not be able to hold ground firmly at the point of attack at the next level, but he sheds in timely fashion and is a much more productive tackler when on the move. With his closing burst and overall speed, he is best served playing off the line, making him a better fit for linebacker at the next level. On 37 running plays he made tackles on in 2018, just two of those carries produced first downs by the opposition.
Burns knows he has to compensate for a lack of bulk when taking on bigger blockers, but will surprise a lethargic lineman with quick spin moves and can rock the offensive tackle back on his heels when he keeps his hands inside his frame to generate a strong punch. He is a disciplined player who won’t get reckless and take himself out of the play. He might lack the bulk and strength to face up to the bigger offensive linemen, but with his hand technique, placement and array of moves, he will generally make the play and not get washed out at the line of scrimmage.
Pass Rush Ability.. Burns shows good urgency closing on the quarterback. He takes good angles to the passer and has that explosive burst off the edge, along with a high, non-stop motor to disrupt the pocket. When free from the lineman, you can see him utilize his hip turn to press the corner. While Burns has a good deal of sacks, he is also very effective at generating pressure due to his speed and second gear. He bears down on the pocket and has the acceleration to get to the quarterback, even when he has to take a wide loop. He has the explosive burst to flush the passer out and stays in control when closing (when he takes aim on the QB, he will get there in an instant). You can see his athletic agility when he flexes and bends his knees to get down the line of scrimmage.
Burns appears to be very nimble and keeps his hands active. He has become very comfortable using his punch when working off the edge of a blocker. When he gets a little too high in his attack, he struggles to finish, but has become much more alert to playing at a low pad level. Speed is his best rush move, but Burns has great hand placement to slip out and avoid blocks on the move. He comes off the edge with a sudden burst and when asked to shoot the gaps, blockers are often surprised by his explosion through the holes (see 2018 Syracuse, Louisville, Miami, Wake Forest games). The thing you see on film is that he combines his speed with efficient inside counter moves to pressure the pocket. He has also developed swim and rip moves working inside, but is better at getting to the quarterback when playing off the edge.
Compares To...Jason Taylor-ex-Miami Dolphins...Some teams feel that Burns lacks the bulk to face up to the bigger offensive tackles at the next level, but, like Taylor, he is blessed with excellent quickness, good balance and body control and very active hands to counter. He is best playing on the move, as his bulk issues do come into play when trying to combat double teams, but he has that lateral agility and closing burst to get serious consideration as a strong-side linebacker or edge rusher.
If we get Q at 6, and Devin Bush and Brian Burns are there at 17, I would have a tough time choosing between the two. Prob lean slightly for Bush because we have Golden and Carter and there are still pass rushers that we can grab later on like Ferguson or Winovich.
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My thoughts are I know two defensive players I'd rather have - Q Williams & josh Allen. I think is more John (dad) than Joey. Look at San Fran-they are trying to trade Armstead & Solomon Thomas. Why? They like Williams better
Oh noes dont say that...they need to pick Bosa!
Giants cant take Gary that would be a momental disaster.
Dave ...rank these guys on best guess of current Giants board:
Q.Will
Bosa
Allen
Gary
White
Oliver
Sweat
Burns
The current consensus list for the league has;
Williams (8.82), Allen (8.43), Bosa (8.29), Oliver (7.99), White (7.91) as the top five. Grades 7.5 or better mean predictions are immediate contributor. The only other player in the system 7.0 or above is TJ Hockenson (7.44)
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In comment 14384227 nflscouting said:
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My thoughts are I know two defensive players I'd rather have - Q Williams & josh Allen. I think is more John (dad) than Joey. Look at San Fran-they are trying to trade Armstead & Solomon Thomas. Why? They like Williams better
Oh noes dont say that...they need to pick Bosa!
Giants cant take Gary that would be a momental disaster.
Dave ...rank these guys on best guess of current Giants board:
Q.Will
Bosa
Allen
Gary
White
Oliver
Sweat
Burns
The current consensus list for the league has;
Williams (8.82), Allen (8.43), Bosa (8.29), Oliver (7.99), White (7.91) as the top five. Grades 7.5 or better mean predictions are immediate contributor. The only other player in the system 7.0 or above is TJ Hockenson (7.44)
And if a QB goes before us, the giants will have their pick of at least two of these guys.