Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

If you had the choice, Quinnen Williams or Josh Allen

FrankieR : 4/11/2019 1:36 pm
The Cards took Kyler and the 49ers took Bosa. The Giants traded their 2nd and 3rd this year and 2nd next year to swap 3 and 6 to guarantee themselves a shot at one of the top defensive players in the draft.

Both are fits for the D. Q Williams is a 3 down DL. Allen can play OLB in a 3-4 and with his hand in the dirt in nickel.

Who do you want if you had the choice?

Please dont argue over the trade proposal. I went on last years model of the Colts Jets trade. Reasoning for not giving up equal value the Jets gave up is the Colts knew the Jets wanted a qb.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: RE: RE: If in fact the D talent will be there  
bLiTz 2k : 4/11/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14382750 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14382733 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 14382725 FrankieR said:


Quote:


In comment 14382722 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick



Big Blue....read the premise....pick a player.

Then why not just say who do you prefer between the two players? Why come up with some preposterous trade idea???



I did a couple posts up!!!! How is it preposterous? The Jets gave up 3 number 2s last year and have been shopping this pick. How is that preposterous.

Personally, Im about 50/50 on both. I love the versatility of Allen, but he apparently lacks pass rush moves which nullifies a lot of ability at the next level. Plus I dont know how he looked in coverage last year despite people saying he can cover. On paper, he is the Leonard Floyd we wanted but with the right amount of playing weight.

Williams is less scary. Yes, as a 5 tech or a 1 tech his value is diminished but we play enough 4 man fronts in Nickel and weird Joker formations that Bettcher likes where he can play 3 tech.

At the end of the day, if both are available, I would probably take Williams.


lol the point is that obviously the idea of such a trade would be criticized to high hell, so just say "who do you like better". You open yourself up for reactions that you didnt want to begin with.

Williams is more of a sure thing, and probably the better overall player...something about Allen scares me so I stick with Q.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If in fact the D talent will be there  
FrankieR : 4/11/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14382759 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14382750 FrankieR said:


Quote:






I did a couple posts up!!!! How is it preposterous? The Jets gave up 3 number 2s last year and have been shopping this pick. How is that preposterous.

Personally, Im about 50/50 on both. I love the versatility of Allen, but he apparently lacks pass rush moves which nullifies a lot of ability at the next level. Plus I dont know how he looked in coverage last year despite people saying he can cover. On paper, he is the Leonard Floyd we wanted but with the right amount of playing weight.

Williams is less scary. Yes, as a 5 tech or a 1 tech his value is diminished but we play enough 4 man fronts in Nickel and weird Joker formations that Bettcher likes where he can play 3 tech.

At the end of the day, if both are available, I would probably take Williams.

My apologies for snapping (but that trade is unrealistic). I prefer Q. Williams simply because I believe him to be the better prospect and you don't fuck around in the top ten. Too much upside and too much money at stake. Bettcher will make it work if the Giants should wind up with either him or Ed Oliver as BPA when they are on the clock. Or whoever is BPA no matter the depth chart.


What makes it unrealistic? Not enough? Its a hypothetical and not far off of what the Jets gave up last year.

The question has produced just aboyt a split in opinions btw
You have to  
Amtoft : 4/11/2019 2:08 pm : link
take Quinnen Williams because he just seems so dominate and if you can get a pass rushing 3-4 DE that is harder to fill in my opinion than a 3-4 edge player. Saying that Josh Allen is perfect for our defense. I mean he fits so nicely!
RE: If in fact the D talent will be there  
bw in dc : 4/11/2019 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14382722 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick


What? No tag line today - "Whatever DG decides to do, I trust..."

I'd go with Allen. I haven't seen it, but I've heard remarks about  
Ira : 4/11/2019 2:12 pm : link
QW taking plays off.
RE: RE: If in fact the D talent will be there  
bLiTz 2k : 4/11/2019 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14382772 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14382722 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick



What? No tag line today - "Whatever DG decides to do, I trust..."


Ahem, coming from the guy that cant help himself like a fat kid in a donut shop writing Jints central on every thread lolll
If Quinnen Williams  
mrvax : 4/11/2019 2:17 pm : link
is just a step below Aaron Donald, I'd snag him.
Else, Allen. I want a guy that is disruptive...on the field.
RE: RE: RE: If in fact the D talent will be there  
FrankieR : 4/11/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14382781 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
In comment 14382772 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14382722 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick



What? No tag line today - "Whatever DG decides to do, I trust..."




Ahem, coming from the guy that cant help himself like a fat kid in a donut shop writing Jints central on every thread lolll



Hahaha
Allen  
GiantsLaw : 4/11/2019 2:35 pm : link
.
Williams.  
Brown Recluse : 4/11/2019 2:38 pm : link
Not even close imo. Buid the lines
RE: It's interesting  
Giantz_comeback : 4/11/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14382716 Anakim said:
Quote:
Because I think Quinnen is the best player in the Draft, but his best position by far is a 3T in a 4-3, which we don't run.

By contrast, Josh Allen is my third best player and is a perfect fit for the 3-4.


He can play anywhere. That size,speed, strength and most importantly amazing technique can play almost anywhere on the line. 3-4 DE more than 4-3 DE because the speed isnt elite but it is still very good.

And I think the Giants want to create havoc in the trenches moreso than from OLB because we already have Carter and Golden for those roles.
RE: If Quinnen Williams  
Giantz_comeback : 4/11/2019 2:42 pm : link
In comment 14382785 mrvax said:
Quote:
is just a step below Aaron Donald, I'd snag him.
Else, Allen. I want a guy that is disruptive...on the field.


I would say he is a touch below Donald in pure quickness and perhaps closing speed to the QB but in other areas he projects even better than Donald does. Best player in the draft and only player I'd trade up for (even though I love Allen).

He'd free up rushing lanes for other players, while playing the run amazingly and generating decent pass rush himself.

His value to this team and this scheme is off the charts.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/11/2019 2:43 pm : link
QWill.
Quinnen  
90.Cal : 4/11/2019 2:50 pm : link
Reminds me a little of Calais Campbell.
QW  
Spider in Warwick : 4/11/2019 3:02 pm : link
I like both players very much but Williams was arguably the most dominant defensive player in college football, as a first year starter. We'd be lucky to have a shot at drafting him.
williams or allen  
leinad : 4/11/2019 3:10 pm : link
either of them if they are there at pick 6
RE: Allen  
Toth029 : 4/11/2019 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14382715 Oscar said:
Quote:
More college production over two seasons instead of one.

Because he's had amazing talent ahead of him. Not talent lacking.
No idea  
idiotsavant : 4/11/2019 3:17 pm : link
Because I'm not looking at players this year. But Planet Theory says Q

That said, Q, Allen or Oliver at 6.

Bush at 17

And Dexter Laurence at 37 would do it.

Then Mack Wilson

Then Wynovich

Heheje
Agreed I don't even want to answer this  
Leg of Theismann : 4/11/2019 3:19 pm : link
because the trade proposed by the OP is insane. You do not build a team or win a championship with ONE impact defensive player (unless, perhaps, that player is Lawrence Taylor, which Josh Allen and Quinnen Williams, although fantastic players, are not). The draft is DEEP in rounds 2-3 and we cannot afford to trade those picks away. We already only have 4 picks in the top 100, we cannot trade any away. Any player we get in the 4th round or later are, statistically-speaking, unlikely to be starters. You need 22 competent starters on a football team, not 1 great player. Just ask Calvin Johnson and Barry Sanders.
Nice choice to have to make at #6  
TMS : 4/11/2019 3:25 pm : link
but doubt it happens. Think both will be gone because this QB crop is not that good. Both are top five picks and will be gone.
RE: Agreed I don't even want to answer this  
TMS : 4/11/2019 3:29 pm : link
In comment 14382853 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
because the trade proposed by the OP is insane. You do not build a team or win a championship with ONE impact defensive player (unless, perhaps, that player is Lawrence Taylor, which Josh Allen and Quinnen Williams, although fantastic players, are not). The draft is DEEP in rounds 2-3 and we cannot afford to trade those picks away. We already only have 4 picks in the top 100, we cannot trade any away. Any player we get in the 4th round or later are, statistically-speaking, unlikely to be starters. You need 22 competent starters on a football team, not 1 great player. Just ask Calvin Johnson and Barry Sanders.
Let me guess we should trade for Rosen right ? When will it end ?
RE: It's interesting  
jlukes : 4/11/2019 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14382716 Anakim said:
Quote:
Because I think Quinnen is the best player in the Draft, but his best position by far is a 3T in a 4-3, which we don't run.

By contrast, Josh Allen is my third best player and is a perfect fit for the 3-4.


I love when you talk like Mel Kiper III
We have no pass rushers...  
M.S. : 4/11/2019 3:39 pm : link

...save for a developening Lo Carter.

We used to have Strahan, Kiwi, JPP and Justin Tuck.

Now we have jack shit.

NFL fucking worst.

Josh Allen is the pick and there ain't even a discussion.
Williams  
jeff57 : 4/11/2019 3:41 pm : link
.
Canít waste premium picks like that.  
Ivan15 : 4/11/2019 3:43 pm : link
.
Hate the premise of trading up in Round One  
George : 4/11/2019 4:05 pm : link
But if it comes down to choosing between QW and JA, I pick Josh Allen.

We've got to attack from the edge with speed and shore up our ability to stuff the run and cover RBs and TEs at the second level.

In Round One we just have to go with Edge and LB, although not necessarily in that order.
Williams  
Marty866b : 4/11/2019 4:26 pm : link
By a large margin for me. I watched a lot of Allen's tape and Kentucky had a real good secondary and it appeared to me that a lot of Allen's sacks came as a result of good coverage.
Williams  
bc4life : 4/11/2019 4:28 pm : link
You'd have Hill, Tomlinson, and Williams in the front row. I think you could get some quality edge rushers in 2nd or 3rd round.
RE: Hate the premise of trading up in Round One  
FrankieR : 4/11/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14382920 George said:
Quote:
But if it comes down to choosing between QW and JA, I pick Josh Allen.

We've got to attack from the edge with speed and shore up our ability to stuff the run and cover RBs and TEs at the second level.

In Round One we just have to go with Edge and LB, although not necessarily in that order.



Thank you for being the one guy on the thread who understands the concept!

Yes, I agree that Id rather not trade up. Sit tight and take Oliver, Sweat or our Tackle at 6. But if given the choice, I thought Allen vs. Q was worth a chat. Olover and Burns/Bush/Bradbury at 17.
RE: Williams  
FrankieR : 4/11/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14382941 Marty866b said:
Quote:
By a large margin for me. I watched a lot of Allen's tape and Kentucky had a real good secondary and it appeared to me that a lot of Allen's sacks came as a result of good coverage.


I noticed that too! A lot of Allen's stuff came from being unblocked, beating his guy's first step and from the qb having the ball too long.
Q  
Jim Bur(n)t : 4/11/2019 4:51 pm : link
.
Probably take Allen  
ghost718 : 4/11/2019 4:53 pm : link
He reminds me of DeMarcus Ware,also had some good production despite not being turned loose a whole lot.
Q Williams  
Watson : 4/11/2019 5:07 pm : link
but in the actual draft if we snagged Allen, I definitely would not be disappointed.
Hog Mollie..  
KingBlue : 4/11/2019 6:23 pm : link
Williams' tape is so awesome. Pressure up the middle.
RE: RE: Agreed I don't even want to answer this  
Leg of Theismann : 4/11/2019 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14382869 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 14382853 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


because the trade proposed by the OP is insane. You do not build a team or win a championship with ONE impact defensive player (unless, perhaps, that player is Lawrence Taylor, which Josh Allen and Quinnen Williams, although fantastic players, are not). The draft is DEEP in rounds 2-3 and we cannot afford to trade those picks away. We already only have 4 picks in the top 100, we cannot trade any away. Any player we get in the 4th round or later are, statistically-speaking, unlikely to be starters. You need 22 competent starters on a football team, not 1 great player. Just ask Calvin Johnson and Barry Sanders.

Let me guess we should trade for Rosen right ? When will it end ?


Where did you get "trade for Rosen" from my post? The OP suggested we trade our 2019 2nd and 3rd rounders and 2020 2nd rounder to move up 3 spots for a DL. I'm just saying that's crazy-talk.
RE: Nice choice to have to make at #6  
Leg of Theismann : 4/11/2019 6:53 pm : link
In comment 14382865 TMS said:
Quote:
but doubt it happens. Think both will be gone because this QB crop is not that good. Both are top five picks and will be gone.


Also, in both of your posts on this thread, you seem to think the OP was asking "if both are there at #6 who do we take" so maybe you missed the part about the trade he was proposing we hypothetically make? I was simply commenting on that particular trade idea being pure madness.
Donít really know enough about either  
Giantimistic : 4/11/2019 7:41 pm : link
and donít watch a lot of college football but I take the player that collapses the pocket and doesnít let the an step up. Our Super Bowl wins on defense were in large part due to Tuck messing up the pocket from the dline.

So I take Williams if he is a good as they say and if he was equal to Allen.
I heard on Sirius Moving the Chains (or one of those shows) that  
PatersonPlank : 4/11/2019 7:45 pm : link
Tony Dungy says you always take the guy closest to the ball, because they are the hardest to find and most important. So going by that its Williams.
RE: RE: Nice choice to have to make at #6  
FrankieR : 4/11/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14383061 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14382865 TMS said:


Quote:


but doubt it happens. Think both will be gone because this QB crop is not that good. Both are top five picks and will be gone.



Also, in both of your posts on this thread, you seem to think the OP was asking "if both are there at #6 who do we take" so maybe you missed the part about the trade he was proposing we hypothetically make? I was simply commenting on that particular trade idea being pure madness.


No dude, YPU missed it. The trade idea was just in case our FO was into getting ONE of the ttwo.

Fine, if both were available at 6 (remarkably unlikely), who would you choose?

Better?
I'd prefer Q to Allen slightly but  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 4/11/2019 8:10 pm : link
Not drafting a QB and trading away picks that would be used to plug other holes or used to acquire a QB is about the worst thing we could do. Unless you expect Eli to play at a high level into his early 40's this is the dumbest idea ever.
RE: I'd prefer Q to Allen slightly but  
FrankieR : 4/11/2019 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14383124 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
Not drafting a QB and trading away picks that would be used to plug other holes or used to acquire a QB is about the worst thing we could do. Unless you expect Eli to play at a high level into his early 40's this is the dumbest idea ever.


I agree. Thats why I stated Oliver then go get one of Bush, Burns or Bradbury.....Ooooooooo yeahhhhhh
RE: I'd go with Allen. I haven't seen it, but I've heard remarks about  
markky : 4/11/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14382779 Ira said:
Quote:
QW taking plays off.


he was gassed at the end of the National Championship game. he wasn't even on the field during Bama's last chance to stop Clemson.

that said, I take Q Will. rare combination of size and technique.
Von Miller vs Marcell Dareus  
jbeintherockies : 4/11/2019 9:50 pm : link
It sounds like the 2011 NFL draft, when the Broncos took Von Miller and then the Bills took Marcell Dareus.

I recall John Fox stating they took Von Miller over Marcell Dareus because they felt Von was more versatile.

The Giants traded their 2nd and 3rd this year and 2nd next year to swa  
Torrag : 4/11/2019 10:12 pm : link
You only do this for a QB or a belief the guy is Lawrence Taylor redux. That isn't the case for any of these defensive players...not even Bosa who imo is a half-step ahead of the rest.
Q Williams  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/11/2019 10:36 pm : link
is widely considered the best player in the draft. Why would you pick the third or fourth best player when you can have the best player?

Besides Williams is a man. Allen looks like he just got back from the prom.
RE: Von Miller vs Marcell Dareus  
Giantz_comeback : 4/12/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14383223 jbeintherockies said:
Quote:
It sounds like the 2011 NFL draft, when the Broncos took Von Miller and then the Bills took Marcell Dareus.

I recall John Fox stating they took Von Miller over Marcell Dareus because they felt Von was more versatile.


Interesting comp but I think Williams is a solid tick above Dareus and Allen is a solid tick below Von.
Williams  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/12/2019 10:52 am : link
!
David Te said 49ers like Williams better  
madgiantscow009 : 4/12/2019 5:55 pm : link
than Armstead and Solomon Thomas and are trying to deal them. What do you guys think of them?

If that is true than Williams may be off the table, but I would take Quinnen over Allen.
RE: Williams  
Eman11 : 4/12/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14383635 gidiefor said:
Quote:
!


Same here!
QW  
Jimmy Googs : 4/12/2019 6:05 pm : link
going to be a beast...
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner