The Cards took Kyler and the 49ers took Bosa. The Giants traded their 2nd and 3rd this year and 2nd next year to swap 3 and 6 to guarantee themselves a shot at one of the top defensive players in the draft.
Both are fits for the D. Q Williams is a 3 down DL. Allen can play OLB in a 3-4 and with his hand in the dirt in nickel.
Who do you want if you had the choice?
Please dont argue over the trade proposal. I went on last years model of the Colts Jets trade. Reasoning for not giving up equal value the Jets gave up is the Colts knew the Jets wanted a qb.
By contrast, Josh Allen is my third best player and is a perfect fit for the 3-4.
By contrast, Josh Allen is my third best player and is a perfect fit for the 3-4.
We run a ton of Nickel and will probably run more of it with the way Bettch will probably use Peppers and Bethea....neither of which are true fs.
But I always worry about Bama DLs because they don't appear to be as dominant in the pros as they are in Tuscaloosa.
Allen seems ideal for a 3-4. I see him having an instant impact - 8-12 sacks.
Big Blue....read the premise....pick a player.
But I always worry about Bama DLs because they don't appear to be as dominant in the pros as they are in Tuscaloosa.
Allen seems ideal for a 3-4. I see him having an instant impact - 8-12 sacks.
I tend to lean in the Allen direction myself. Guy wears two hats. Can cover and get after the passer. I dont really like the lack of pass rush moves from Allen though.
Williams is an absolute physical mismatch. A more athletic Marcel Dareus
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at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick
Big Blue....read the premise....pick a player.
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In comment 14382722 Big Blue '56 said:
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at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick
Big Blue....read the premise....pick a player.
Then why not just say who do you prefer between the two players? Why come up with some preposterous trade idea???
I did a couple posts up!!!! How is it preposterous? The Jets gave up 3 number 2s last year and have been shopping this pick. How is that preposterous.
Personally, Im about 50/50 on both. I love the versatility of Allen, but he apparently lacks pass rush moves which nullifies a lot of ability at the next level. Plus I dont know how he looked in coverage last year despite people saying he can cover. On paper, he is the Leonard Floyd we wanted but with the right amount of playing weight.
Williams is less scary. Yes, as a 5 tech or a 1 tech his value is diminished but we play enough 4 man fronts in Nickel and weird Joker formations that Bettcher likes where he can play 3 tech.
At the end of the day, if both are available, I would probably take Williams.
I did a couple posts up!!!! How is it preposterous? The Jets gave up 3 number 2s last year and have been shopping this pick. How is that preposterous.
Personally, Im about 50/50 on both. I love the versatility of Allen, but he apparently lacks pass rush moves which nullifies a lot of ability at the next level. Plus I dont know how he looked in coverage last year despite people saying he can cover. On paper, he is the Leonard Floyd we wanted but with the right amount of playing weight.
Williams is less scary. Yes, as a 5 tech or a 1 tech his value is diminished but we play enough 4 man fronts in Nickel and weird Joker formations that Bettcher likes where he can play 3 tech.
At the end of the day, if both are available, I would probably take Williams.
But its an interesting question if the Giants view thesir first pick on defense has to be a top guy. I wouldnt be opposed to using a couple picks to get a slam dunk
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In comment 14382725 FrankieR said:
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In comment 14382722 Big Blue '56 said:
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at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick
Big Blue....read the premise....pick a player.
Then why not just say who do you prefer between the two players? Why come up with some preposterous trade idea???
I did a couple posts up!!!! How is it preposterous? The Jets gave up 3 number 2s last year and have been shopping this pick. How is that preposterous.
Personally, Im about 50/50 on both. I love the versatility of Allen, but he apparently lacks pass rush moves which nullifies a lot of ability at the next level. Plus I dont know how he looked in coverage last year despite people saying he can cover. On paper, he is the Leonard Floyd we wanted but with the right amount of playing weight.
Williams is less scary. Yes, as a 5 tech or a 1 tech his value is diminished but we play enough 4 man fronts in Nickel and weird Joker formations that Bettcher likes where he can play 3 tech.
At the end of the day, if both are available, I would probably take Williams.
lol the point is that obviously the idea of such a trade would be criticized to high hell, so just say "who do you like better". You open yourself up for reactions that you didnt want to begin with.
Williams is more of a sure thing, and probably the better overall player...something about Allen scares me so I stick with Q.
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I did a couple posts up!!!! How is it preposterous? The Jets gave up 3 number 2s last year and have been shopping this pick. How is that preposterous.
Personally, Im about 50/50 on both. I love the versatility of Allen, but he apparently lacks pass rush moves which nullifies a lot of ability at the next level. Plus I dont know how he looked in coverage last year despite people saying he can cover. On paper, he is the Leonard Floyd we wanted but with the right amount of playing weight.
Williams is less scary. Yes, as a 5 tech or a 1 tech his value is diminished but we play enough 4 man fronts in Nickel and weird Joker formations that Bettcher likes where he can play 3 tech.
At the end of the day, if both are available, I would probably take Williams.
My apologies for snapping (but that trade is unrealistic). I prefer Q. Williams simply because I believe him to be the better prospect and you don't fuck around in the top ten. Too much upside and too much money at stake. Bettcher will make it work if the Giants should wind up with either him or Ed Oliver as BPA when they are on the clock. Or whoever is BPA no matter the depth chart.
What makes it unrealistic? Not enough? Its a hypothetical and not far off of what the Jets gave up last year.
The question has produced just aboyt a split in opinions btw
What? No tag line today - "Whatever DG decides to do, I trust..."
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at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick
What? No tag line today - "Whatever DG decides to do, I trust..."
Ahem, coming from the guy that cant help himself like a fat kid in a donut shop writing Jints central on every thread lolll
Else, Allen. I want a guy that is disruptive...on the field.
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In comment 14382722 Big Blue '56 said:
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at 6 with no major difference between the players, then you have to address the trade you propose. We have the rare chance of rebuilding the D with building block players. I would not trade a premium pick
What? No tag line today - "Whatever DG decides to do, I trust..."
Ahem, coming from the guy that cant help himself like a fat kid in a donut shop writing Jints central on every thread lolll
Hahaha
By contrast, Josh Allen is my third best player and is a perfect fit for the 3-4.
He can play anywhere. That size,speed, strength and most importantly amazing technique can play almost anywhere on the line. 3-4 DE more than 4-3 DE because the speed isnt elite but it is still very good.
And I think the Giants want to create havoc in the trenches moreso than from OLB because we already have Carter and Golden for those roles.
Else, Allen. I want a guy that is disruptive...on the field.
I would say he is a touch below Donald in pure quickness and perhaps closing speed to the QB but in other areas he projects even better than Donald does. Best player in the draft and only player I'd trade up for (even though I love Allen).
He'd free up rushing lanes for other players, while playing the run amazingly and generating decent pass rush himself.
His value to this team and this scheme is off the charts.
Because he's had amazing talent ahead of him. Not talent lacking.
That said, Q, Allen or Oliver at 6.
Bush at 17
And Dexter Laurence at 37 would do it.
Then Mack Wilson
Then Wynovich
Heheje
By contrast, Josh Allen is my third best player and is a perfect fit for the 3-4.
I love when you talk like Mel Kiper III
...save for a developening Lo Carter.
We used to have Strahan, Kiwi, JPP and Justin Tuck.
Now we have jack shit.
NFL fucking worst.
Josh Allen is the pick and there ain't even a discussion.
We've got to attack from the edge with speed and shore up our ability to stuff the run and cover RBs and TEs at the second level.
In Round One we just have to go with Edge and LB, although not necessarily in that order.
We've got to attack from the edge with speed and shore up our ability to stuff the run and cover RBs and TEs at the second level.
In Round One we just have to go with Edge and LB, although not necessarily in that order.
Thank you for being the one guy on the thread who understands the concept!
Yes, I agree that Id rather not trade up. Sit tight and take Oliver, Sweat or our Tackle at 6. But if given the choice, I thought Allen vs. Q was worth a chat. Olover and Burns/Bush/Bradbury at 17.
I noticed that too! A lot of Allen's stuff came from being unblocked, beating his guy's first step and from the qb having the ball too long.
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because the trade proposed by the OP is insane. You do not build a team or win a championship with ONE impact defensive player (unless, perhaps, that player is Lawrence Taylor, which Josh Allen and Quinnen Williams, although fantastic players, are not). The draft is DEEP in rounds 2-3 and we cannot afford to trade those picks away. We already only have 4 picks in the top 100, we cannot trade any away. Any player we get in the 4th round or later are, statistically-speaking, unlikely to be starters. You need 22 competent starters on a football team, not 1 great player. Just ask Calvin Johnson and Barry Sanders.
Let me guess we should trade for Rosen right ? When will it end ?
Where did you get "trade for Rosen" from my post? The OP suggested we trade our 2019 2nd and 3rd rounders and 2020 2nd rounder to move up 3 spots for a DL. I'm just saying that's crazy-talk.
Also, in both of your posts on this thread, you seem to think the OP was asking "if both are there at #6 who do we take" so maybe you missed the part about the trade he was proposing we hypothetically make? I was simply commenting on that particular trade idea being pure madness.
So I take Williams if he is a good as they say and if he was equal to Allen.
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but doubt it happens. Think both will be gone because this QB crop is not that good. Both are top five picks and will be gone.
Also, in both of your posts on this thread, you seem to think the OP was asking "if both are there at #6 who do we take" so maybe you missed the part about the trade he was proposing we hypothetically make? I was simply commenting on that particular trade idea being pure madness.
No dude, YPU missed it. The trade idea was just in case our FO was into getting ONE of the ttwo.
Fine, if both were available at 6 (remarkably unlikely), who would you choose?
Better?
I agree. Thats why I stated Oliver then go get one of Bush, Burns or Bradbury.....Ooooooooo yeahhhhhh
he was gassed at the end of the National Championship game. he wasn't even on the field during Bama's last chance to stop Clemson.
that said, I take Q Will. rare combination of size and technique.
I recall John Fox stating they took Von Miller over Marcell Dareus because they felt Von was more versatile.
Besides Williams is a man. Allen looks like he just got back from the prom.
I recall John Fox stating they took Von Miller over Marcell Dareus because they felt Von was more versatile.
Interesting comp but I think Williams is a solid tick above Dareus and Allen is a solid tick below Von.
If that is true than Williams may be off the table, but I would take Quinnen over Allen.
Same here!