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Locked on Giants podcast: Pat Traina w/ Mike Lombardi

battttles : 4/12/2019 11:56 pm

Patricia has had some nice guests this draft season (Schofield, Waldman, Hunt, Serritella, etc.) but I was especially excited to hear Mike Lombardi on the podcast today. Other than sounding like they were talking to each other via potato, some really interesting insights from Mike:

- Eli perspectives
- Giants front office approach
- Draft philosophies
- HC/GM/scouting relationships
- Grading players in this draft using NYG methodology

Definitely not interested in your moaning about Lombardi; there are some really interesting nuggets in here.

LINK - ( New Window )
Great listen  
Go Terps : 4/13/2019 1:35 am : link
And he's spot on about the way the organization is run.
Content...  
RAIN : 4/13/2019 3:37 am : link
Was real. Enjoyed the segment. Lombardi has seen some war rooms, and has unique insight into how they grade their players.
I think Lombardi knows his stuff  
George from PA : 4/13/2019 5:01 am : link
But "Blame Eli" is old news.....i think Lombardi is wrong,

The Giants have been bad...and Eli is part if the problem but not THE problem and i do not think his issue is his arm but lack of movement/reaction/escability.

Combine that with a horrible OL...spells disaster.

Now, last year, OL has gotten better and hopefully the RT will get resolved.

And I assume, Eli succession plan is in the works.


Replacing Eli with Tom Brady....would destroy Tom Brady legacy.
Wow, fairly harsh  
santacruzom : 4/13/2019 6:47 am : link
Calculated use of the phrase "convinced themselves."
He was right on many things  
Emil : 4/13/2019 6:56 am : link
But overstated the Giants current adherence to size-speed prospects.

Last year Gettleman talked about how he learned to pay less attention to size as a quality when it came to LBs specifically. Also, it was pretty well covered how Betcher briefed the scouting department on his type of players and how size was not the critical factor.
Lombardi sounded bitter....for some reason  
George from PA : 4/13/2019 7:08 am : link
Reese and Ross direction was a problem.

I am not sure, but DG direction is still undefined.
Pat is offering  
Jay in Toronto : 4/13/2019 7:12 am : link
A 3 month promo for subscribers
“Everybody says the quarterback makes  
Ned In Atlanta : 4/13/2019 7:35 am : link
the team better, but when the quarterback doesn’t play well they blame the other players.” Lombardi must read BBI
RE: I think Lombardi knows his stuff  
bigbluescot : 4/13/2019 7:48 am : link
In comment 14384633 George from PA said:
Quote:
But "Blame Eli" is old news.....i think Lombardi is wrong,

The Giants have been bad...and Eli is part if the problem but not THE problem and i do not think his issue is his arm but lack of movement/reaction/escability.

Combine that with a horrible OL...spells disaster.

Now, last year, OL has gotten better and hopefully the RT will get resolved.

And I assume, Eli succession plan is in the works.


Replacing Eli with Tom Brady....would destroy Tom Brady legacy.


I remember Lombardi saying on another podcast about Rich Gannon and how the Raiders (when he was there) were high on Roethlisberger in the 2004 (they had the 2nd pick) and the only reason they didn't go there was that they convinced themselves than Gannon still had something in the tank and it was everything else around him which was the issue.

That and his time with NE means he's very big on moving on too soon than too late.
RE: Lombardi sounded bitter....for some reason  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2019 7:54 am : link
In comment 14384658 George from PA said:
Quote:
Reese and Ross direction was a problem.

I am not sure, but DG direction is still undefined.


Anyone who criticizes the Giants is either bitter or a moron.
those comments about the Giants  
BigBlueCane : 4/13/2019 8:00 am : link
sticking with a size/speed ratio are damning if I ever heard one.

Mike Lombardi’s history of assessing QBs  
dep026 : 4/13/2019 8:06 am : link
Is about as good Slade making prediction on BBI. And before people say something, go look at his history of drafting QBs.

But hey if there’s anyone who knows how to manipulate his boss in favor of a friend, who later gave him a made up role, that’s Mike Lombardi for you.
RE: “Everybody says the quarterback makes  
Toth029 : 4/13/2019 8:13 am : link
In comment 14384669 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
the team better, but when the quarterback doesn’t play well they blame the other players.” Lombardi must read BBI

Sounds like most sports fans.

LeBron is the epitome of that. So is Aaron Rodgers.
Same Lombardi shtick, different year.  
Klaatu : 4/13/2019 8:23 am : link
Yawn.
RE: Same Lombardi shtick, different year.  
dep026 : 4/13/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14384698 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Yawn.


Exactly.
What I find annoying is the separation of GM & HC  
Sean : 4/13/2019 8:32 am : link
these should not be separate entities.
I'm not sure if Eli is done or not  
Andy in Halifax : 4/13/2019 8:50 am : link
I know he needs to be replaced, no question. Clock is def ticking. But I disagree with him when he implies that QB's should be able to overcome poor OL play and uses that to knock Eli. To me, that's a fatal flaw in a team. If your OL reaches a certain level of incompetence (like we did the past few years), I think there is virtually nothing a QB can do.

When the OL improved over the last 8 games due to improved play of Solder, Hernandez and the addition of Brown, our offense scored a lot more. We averaged 27.5 points in those 8 games. That's above average.
RE: RE: I think Lombardi knows his stuff  
Johnny5 : 4/13/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14384678 bigbluescot said:
Quote:

I remember Lombardi saying on another podcast about Rich Gannon and how the Raiders (when he was there) were high on Roethlisberger in the 2004 (they had the 2nd pick) and the only reason they didn't go there was that they convinced themselves than Gannon still had something in the tank and it was everything else around him which was the issue.

That and his time with NE means he's very big on moving on too soon than too late.

This would be a great point if you weren't comparing Gannon to Eli and Haskins/Lock/etc. to Ben R.
..  
Dodge : 4/13/2019 8:54 am : link
Pat needs to buy a computer that's built this century.
RE: He was right on many things  
Giantz_comeback : 4/13/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14384653 Emil said:
Quote:
But overstated the Giants current adherence to size-speed prospects.

Last year Gettleman talked about how he learned to pay less attention to size as a quality when it came to LBs specifically. Also, it was pretty well covered how Betcher briefed the scouting department on his type of players and how size was not the critical factor.


Well they seem to be in love with Gary. And that's a scary thought.
RE: Same Lombardi shtick, different year.  
trueblueinpw : 4/13/2019 9:22 am : link
In comment 14384698 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Yawn.


💯
RE: those comments about the Giants  
Giantz_comeback : 4/13/2019 9:23 am : link
In comment 14384686 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
sticking with a size/speed ratio are damning if I ever heard one.


Gary is THAT guy this year. Its ok to do that in the 3rd round like Zo Carter. Not so good when its top 10 and production doesn't come close to matching measurables or talent level.
RE: I'm not sure if Eli is done or not  
sxdxca : 4/13/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14384726 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
I know he needs to be replaced, no question. Clock is def ticking. But I disagree with him when he implies that QB's should be able to overcome poor OL play and uses that to knock Eli. To me, that's a fatal flaw in a team. If your OL reaches a certain level of incompetence (like we did the past few years), I think there is virtually nothing a QB can do.

When the OL improved over the last 8 games due to improved play of Solder, Hernandez and the addition of Brown, our offense scored a lot more. We averaged 27.5 points in those 8 games. That's above average.


You are entitled to your opinion, however this isn't entirely true.

When Baker Mayfield entered half way through the 3rd game of the season for the browns, he immediately raised the quality of play around him, and overcame the terrible play of the o line that the previous qb could not.

Secondly while it is true, the Giants scored 27 points in the 2nd half, it had more to do with shurmur getting Eli under center 60-70% of the time, and getting him out of shotgun formation so much. It allowed for more play action, screens and reverses.
Baker elevated play...  
Johnny5 : 4/13/2019 10:37 am : link
... over Tyrod Taylor? Well I would hope so.

You hit a good point sxdx that I state over and over. The offensive line sucked, no doubt and was a huge problem. But it was also exacerbated by a new offensive scheme, that took time to get comfortable with as well as adjustments being made.

Between OL issues and new scheme I'm not sure what people were expecting last year. Someone more mobile could have come in and made the OL and scheme look slightly better initially, but we need consistency on the OL, and the scheme has to get set regardless. Is Eli in decline? Sure but that is WAY overblown. He is not anymore declined than Ben R, Rivers, Brees, etc. who are still playing competitive, winning ball.

We still need better play from the OL. The good news is that already looked better after the bye, as did the scheme and familiarity with it. The run and pass game both improved. It's not a stretch to think we will keep improving.

BUT We need better play from the defense obviously. Hopefully we hit the draft as well as we did last year.
wow he was really down on eli  
japanhead : 4/13/2019 10:55 am : link
.. other thing i noticed was his talk about the size-speed thing and how the giants are dated with the way they do things.. this may've been the case with reese-ross, but wasn't gettleman just recently talking about how instincts are the most important thing he looks for because it allows guys to play bigger and faster, and didn't gettleman also revamp the focus of the scouting department first thing after he got here (after firing ross, that is)?

not sure if lombardi is a hater, if his info is dated, or what, but the last thing i thought after listening was "wow, this guy is spot on." maybe that's my homerism at work, though.
RE: “Everybody says the quarterback makes  
JCin332 : 4/13/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14384669 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
the team better, but when the quarterback doesn’t play well they blame the other players.” Lombardi must read BBI


You and Lombardi need to check the numbers like defensive and rushing rankings over the time period he is referencing...

Its readily available on pro football reference.com...
RE: What I find annoying is the separation of GM & HC  
bw in dc : 4/13/2019 11:15 am : link
In comment 14384708 Sean said:
Quote:
these should not be separate entities.


I detest the concept. It’s archaic. The GM is superfluous.

The coach should be both. He should be picking his own players that meet his needs and concepts. And then he should coach and develop them.

It’s amazing the game got so distorted with this layer of waste.
I'm sure Lombardi is wrong  
santacruzom : 4/13/2019 12:19 pm : link
About QBs from time to time, but he ain't wrong about ours.
He started talking about Rosen and questioning  
BSIMatt : 4/13/2019 2:19 pm : link
Whether he was worth a 3rd round pick. He started with 3rd round and said teams had to decide whether he was worth that pick. That was surprising.
The results..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/13/2019 6:30 pm : link
from a record standpoint weren't much different though:

Quote:
When Baker Mayfield entered half way through the 3rd game of the season for the browns, he immediately raised the quality of play around him, and overcame the terrible play of the o line that the previous qb could not.


Taylor was 1-1-1 as the starter. Mayfield was 6-7.

Know what was evident? That the Browns have accumulated better players and that talent is starting to finally make headway.
The browns offensive line was ranked 2nd in the nfl  
BSIMatt : 4/13/2019 6:41 pm : link
Last year by pff. I know not everyone likes pff, but it’s hard to image the line playing terrible and pff grading them that highly.
I am pretty sure that  
GeoMan999 : 4/14/2019 12:39 am : link
Patti was appalled at what he was saying, which was pretty obnoxious from his very first comments. Obviously, very pompous, self righteous and srelf important with his Bill Belicheck related statements. His analysis of El was pretty lazy as is typical of many so called experts. It is so easy to say that Eli has gone downhill. It is more insightful to place his situation in proper context.....no excuses, but a fair assessment with real circumstances

I keep remembering how sure he was that Doug Pederson was one of the absolutely worst head coaches in the NFL. How did that work out for him?

I felt that Patti would have loved to challenge his somewhat lazy thinking, but really couldn’t because he graciously agreed to come on her show.

It just seemed that he had something against the Giants and DG from his very first comment. I appreciate fair criticism, but he seemed like he had a grudge for some reason?
RE: I am pretty sure that  
BigBlueinDE : 4/14/2019 8:09 am : link
In comment 14385547 GeoMan999 said:
Quote:
Patti was appalled at what he was saying, which was pretty obnoxious from his very first comments. Obviously, very pompous, self righteous and srelf important with his Bill Belicheck related statements. His analysis of El was pretty lazy as is typical of many so called experts. It is so easy to say that Eli has gone downhill. It is more insightful to place his situation in proper context.....no excuses, but a fair assessment with real circumstances

I keep remembering how sure he was that Doug Pederson was one of the absolutely worst head coaches in the NFL. How did that work out for him?

I felt that Patti would have loved to challenge his somewhat lazy thinking, but really couldn’t because he graciously agreed to come on her show.

It just seemed that he had something against the Giants and DG from his very first comment. I appreciate fair criticism, but he seemed like he had a grudge for some reason?


My thoughts as well. I do think a fair criticism of the organization is that they stayed with the Reese/Ross team too long as they missed on way too many players more often than they should have and it is at least a contributing factor where they are today.

I didn't care for the shot at Accorsi and Gettlemen, but I suspect he's promoting himself and his brand so he needs to do what he thinks he needs to do in order to promote Lombardi.
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