Why not more love toward Montez Sweat?

Because his heart condition, people are scared. Plus he has a stupid name that doesn’t sound like he will be successful. Weird way of looking at things, but sometimes when the name doesn’t click, teams will pass, just like players with red hair.

In comment 14384646 theking said:

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Because his heart condition, people are scared. Plus he has a stupid name that doesn’t sound like he will be successful. Weird way of looking at things, but sometimes when the name doesn’t click, teams will pass, just like players with red hair.

Just wow. The things people make up on BBI.

That’s a lot of love.

If you want, watch the attached link of him playing against Dalton Risner
Link - ( New Window )

Actually not joking. I spoke to a scout once for an AFC North team , and they told me some of the owners, care about the physical image and branding of the players. There is even documented discussions by teams who wouldn’t touch Andy Dalton because of his hair. The guy I talked to specifically said “some guys think a guy like Vladimir Ducasse, I wouldn’t touch him because he looked stupid and his name isn’t easy to sell, but a name like Khalil Mack, that name just sounds like someone who is going to kick your ass.”

Pro vs pro....is hard to find.

You can see how his long arms is an advantage....

At least not against the top teams.

He's played 2 games against Bama and LSU, 1 against Georgia & Florida. In those 6 games he has a combined 1 sack and 1.5 TFL.

He's kinda beat up on the lesser SEC teams. Like Arkansas, Kentucky, Ole Miss & Auburn. He's played 8 games against those teams and has 12.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL.

But needs to use his hands better. He gives up his chest way too much and is limited in the moves he has. The tools are there but do you take another guy this early in the draft that is as raw as he is? Doesnt seem like Gettleman's M.O. That seems like more of a Reese pick. I wouldn't be upset with Sweat because the upside is there but he needs to be coached up.

Is he an OLB in a 3-4 who can play with his hand in the dirt like Carter or more of a 4-3 DE? He seems to not play on the left side as well.

He looks the part and sets a good edge plus seems like he has good gap discipline.

I am just not sure he can play in space and I would like to know if he can play both sides of the line.

In comment 14384655 theking said:

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Actually not joking. I spoke to a scout once for an AFC North team , and they told me some of the owners, care about the physical image and branding of the players. There is even documented discussions by teams who wouldn’t touch Andy Dalton because of his hair. The guy I talked to specifically said “some guys think a guy like Vladimir Ducasse, I wouldn’t touch him because he looked stupid and his name isn’t easy to sell, but a name like Khalil Mack, that name just sounds like someone who is going to kick your ass.”

Wait, doesn't Khalil mean "Friend"?

Give me a D'Brickashaw Ferguson. That's the best football name ever.

Don't know how L.T. got drafted with a name like Lawrence. Not to mention Dick Butt Kiss.

getting off the blocks. when he does his speed is impressive. but his sacks were the qb running to the wrong place

In comment 14384657 Big Rick in FL said:

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At least not against the top teams. He's played 2 games against Bama and LSU, 1 against Georgia & Florida. In those 6 games he has a combined 1 sack and 1.5 TFL. He's kinda beat up on the lesser SEC teams. Like Arkansas, Kentucky, Ole Miss & Auburn. He's played 8 games against those teams and has 12.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL.

That’s interesting. I didn’t know that. I also wonder about his fit in a 3-4. I still think that with 3 of the top 5 picks expected to go Murray, Bosa, and Allen, the odds are the Giants end up selecting Ed Oliver.

But as I recall hearing although he was also great in the practices leading up to the Senior Bowl his performance wasn’t in the game itself was rather underwhelming. If anyone has different info in regard to his play in that game I stand to be corrected

In comment 14384703 GiantMike92 said:

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But as I recall hearing although he was also great in the practices leading up to the Senior Bowl his performance wasn’t in the game itself was rather underwhelming. If anyone has different info in regard to his play in that game I stand to be corrected

Senior Bowl game is kinda pointless do to the rules. Most NFL teams leave after the practices.

In comment 14384695 Reb8thVA said:

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In comment 14384657 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: At least not against the top teams. He's played 2 games against Bama and LSU, 1 against Georgia & Florida. In those 6 games he has a combined 1 sack and 1.5 TFL. He's kinda beat up on the lesser SEC teams. Like Arkansas, Kentucky, Ole Miss & Auburn. He's played 8 games against those teams and has 12.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL. That’s interesting. I didn’t know that. I also wonder about his fit in a 3-4. I still think that with 3 of the top 5 picks expected to go Murray, Bosa, and Allen, the odds are the Giants end up selecting Ed Oliver.

Either did I. Saw someone on Twitter point it out. His production against good OTs is very worrisome, but we don't know what he was asked to do.

He's got everything you look for in a pass rusher. Great size and speed. Insanely long arms. His shuttle times were good. He's got production. He aced the Senior Bowl & combine. I could definitely see him being a guy whose a better Pro then college player.

In comment 14384703 GiantMike92 said:

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But as I recall hearing although he was also great in the practices leading up to the Senior Bowl his performance wasn’t in the game itself was rather underwhelming. If anyone has different info in regard to his play in that game I stand to be corrected

Interesting. Yeah those practices in one on ones... he looked unbelievable, even against Dillard. But when you look at games he doesn't look nearly so effective. Weird. Risner really seemed to handle him well.

I watched a lot of the MSU DLine this year - they had similar hype to the NC St. DLine last year and Clemson.

Sweat is the real deal. You're right - on top of the insane triangle numbers he's a hard-nosed football player.

You can't help but notice the similarities to Chandler Jones.

And flashed a whole lot more potential and pass rush ability than Gary does.

Just a hunch but I think the Giants want the bigger (270 lbs+) guy though.

His game performance was point out by Gil Brandt, Sirius radio. I’m also not in tune with the rules of this game or the scouts leaving after the practices.

Thing for me is the heart thing that scares me especially without more info

But someone said it...a better pro then college player.

In 2017, he lead the SEC in sacks, in that video, Kansas ran away from him....even with a pro-tackle.

I do not claim to be an expert, but I am.getting a mab crush....

Q.Williams @6, and a trade down for Sweat will be my new ideal start to draft!

In comment 14384657 Big Rick in FL said:

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At least not against the top teams. He's played 2 games against Bama and LSU, 1 against Georgia & Florida. In those 6 games he has a combined 1 sack and 1.5 TFL. He's kinda beat up on the lesser SEC teams. Like Arkansas, Kentucky, Ole Miss & Auburn. He's played 8 games against those teams and has 12.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL.

This is a great point. There is also his heart condition, and departure from MSU.

Sweat, Gary, Oliver, and White all have some type of character, health, size, or scheme fit concern. Of the four I'd prefer Oilver, but am beginning to think that a small trade down to get an extra pick this year or next might be the best answer.

I also think Burns could be a dark horse pick at #6, although I think that is too high for him. Christian Wilkins as well because of his versatility and fit as a 5T, and his high character.

In comment 14384646 theking said:

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Because his heart condition, people are scared. Plus he has a stupid name that doesn’t sound like he will be successful. Weird way of looking at things, but sometimes when the name doesn’t click, teams will pass, just like players with red hair.

What the hell

A pass rush plan and his hand usage is rudimentary, and the bend isn’t quite there. He has a lot of things going for him, but I do prefer Oliver, Hockenson, and White to him.

He’s a 9-15 type player imo.

...reminds me of Odsi. Coule be a real scary m'fer in a couple of seasons. He's my likely #3 option at 6 behind:

Oliver
Bush

ahead of Gary.

and it's been known forever. It doesn't concern me at all, and I'd be surprised if it concerned the Giants.

Since Gaines Adams the NFL executives are very apprehensive about heart issues.

In comment 14384657 Big Rick in FL said:

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At least not against the top teams. He's played 2 games against Bama and LSU, 1 against Georgia & Florida. In those 6 games he has a combined 1 sack and 1.5 TFL. He's kinda beat up on the lesser SEC teams. Like Arkansas, Kentucky, Ole Miss & Auburn. He's played 8 games against those teams and has 12.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL.

How many did Josh Allen have against those top teams?

but the lack of love you note is because he had less production than you typically want at 6, brought on b/c he's not an overly sophisticated pass rusher. As a comparison to other picks people are talking about, he is a better pass rush prospect than Gary and more aggressive against the run.

The other component of the lack of love you question is that his combine performance was so strong that people are attempting to account for how that could bias their opinion and they are withholding judgement on him.

In comment 14384742 Johnny5 said:

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In comment 14384703 GiantMike92 said: Quote: But as I recall hearing although he was also great in the practices leading up to the Senior Bowl his performance wasn’t in the game itself was rather underwhelming. If anyone has different info in regard to his play in that game I stand to be corrected Interesting. Yeah those practices in one on ones... he looked unbelievable, even against Dillard. But when you look at games he doesn't look nearly so effective. Weird. Risner really seemed to handle him well.

I mean. Risner is high on a lot of people’s boards so it’s not really a knock against Sweat. Besides Sweat has a couple snaps where he manhandled Risner.

In comment 14384909 RAIN said:

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A pass rush plan and his hand usage is rudimentary, and the bend isn’t quite there. He has a lot of things going for him, but I do prefer Oliver, Hockenson, and White to him. He’s a 9-15 type player imo.

This is it right here. He's a nice player but there are some holes in his game that leave me wanting more with such a premium pick. He needs to develop some pass rush moves and his lack of flexibility may limit some of the upside people see when looking at his size/speed numbers. I like him or Burns (with a preference towards Burns) in a small trade up from 17 though.

But I would have no problem taking him at 6.

In comment 14384646 theking said:

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he has a stupid name that doesn’t sound like he will be successful. Weird way of looking at things, but sometimes when the name doesn’t click, teams will pass, just like players with red hair.

They always said that Daryl Strawberry wouldn't have been nearly as famous if his name were Bob Jones. His friend Eric Davis, a similar player for Cincinnati, seems to prove the point.

In comment 14384983 OntheRoad said:

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In comment 14384646 theking said: Quote: he has a stupid name that doesn’t sound like he will be successful. Weird way of looking at things, but sometimes when the name doesn’t click, teams will pass, just like players with red hair. They always said that Daryl Strawberry wouldn't have been nearly as famous if his name were Bob Jones. His friend Eric Davis, a similar player for Cincinnati, seems to prove the point.

It sounds ridiculous, but team owners and executives really think of these things.

The heart thing is too risky for me. Reggie Lewis, Hank Gathers...

Good pass rushers are not just athletic guys, they have a natural knack for hand use, turning hips, not giving up their chest, leverage, good first step, and pad level. Sweat just doesn’t have it from what I’ve seen, he’s tall and plays high, he has average get off at the snap, and he doesn’t use his length well and gives up his chest. Maybe at 17 if you think he can be coached up, but 6 should be a “sure thing”. A Williams is a much more natural player

Real good analysis by chilly460. He hardly was a dominant player against the better teams and I wouldn't touch a player with any kind of heart issue at #6. If we're going to select a player because of great physical tools, I'd go with Gary.

I think I'll take Risner at 6!!!!!!

everybody!

In comment 14384787 George from PA said:

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But someone said it...a better pro then college player. In 2017, he lead the SEC in sacks, in that video, Kansas ran away from him....even with a pro-tackle. I do not claim to be an expert, but I am.getting a mab crush.... Q.Williams @6, and a trade down for Sweat will be my new ideal start to draft!

How are you planning to take QW at 6 and trade down for Sweat? There's almost no chance that Sweat is even there staying put at 17, so how do you figure you can trade down and still get him?

Why Gary is so often ranked or at least mocked ahead of Sweat.

Both are amazing athletes, but Sweat seems to be perceived as performing at a high level in college. What am I missing? Is it just the heart condition? If that is a real concern you would think he wouldn't be drafted at all.