Mets Lineup
Jeff McNeil 2B
Pete Alonso 1B
Michael Conforto RF
J.D. Davis 3B
Travis dArnaud C
Keon Broxton - LF
Amed Rosario - SS
Juan Lagares CF
Jason Vargas - LHP
Wow. Definitely one of the best chances the Braves are going to have at a win against us, maybe ever. lol. A Vargas start and Nimmo, Cano, and Ramos all out tonight. Broxton, Lagares, TDA, and JD Davis all in the same lineup. Oh well. I feel like tonight is house money anyway with deGrom going tomorrow. LGM!!
2. Josh Donaldson (R) 3B
3. F. Freeman (L) 1B
4. R. Acuna (R) CF
5. Nick Markakis (L) RF
6. Dansby Swanson (R) SS
7. Johan Camargo (S) LF
8. Alex Jackson (R) C
9. Sean Newcomb (L) P.
McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...
I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.
I get wanting to rest guys but is it necessary to purposely put your team in a position to lose?
It's fine to look at to see how players are doing over an extremely small sample but it probably won't offer an accurate portrayal for a couple months at least.
McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...
I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.
Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...
Well, not everyone is as ho hum as you seem to be. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Yes, he has plenty experience at 2nd. That wasnt my point. If you are going to publicly say that a player hasnt had enough reps at a position to be comfortable with it, then I sure as hell hope that the manager wouldnt be talked into it by the player. And, Im sorry, but Mickey sure hasnt earned the benefit of the doubt with anything he does yet. At least not for me.
Its okay to disagree with things. The Mets dont exactly have a long track record of success. Or any track record of success really.
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If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?
McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...
I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.
Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...
Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd
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In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:
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If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?
McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...
I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.
Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...
Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd
Mike Trout hits second. Aaron Judge hits second. Times have changed. Teams are extremely analytical and nowadays your best hitter is usually hitting second.
Im not a Mets fan so maybe they do things differently, but Id be shocked if Calloway was the one deciding the lineup/batting order. For better or worse, analytics and the front office are making these decisions for the most part.
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In comment 14385187 DonQuixote said:
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In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:
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If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?
McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...
I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.
Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...
Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd
Mike Trout hits second. Aaron Judge hits second. Times have changed. Teams are extremely analytical and nowadays your best hitter is usually hitting second.
Im not a Mets fan so maybe they do things differently, but Id be shocked if Calloway was the one deciding the lineup/batting order. For better or worse, analytics and the front office are making these decisions for the most part.
That's a very good point. Having a power hitter hitting 2nd is new to us, and I can't understand the logic. But following what you just said, it's obviously more than a manager's whim.
He also has shown tremendous range and arm at third; the kids an athlete. He may have made a few errors, but its very early.
The kid is going to be a player in my view, a huge steal. Love me JD. No problem hitting him 4, would suck if he lost playing time to Frazier.
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What does Mickey expect out of Jason Vargas today?
"I expect Vargas."
Well, that settles that.
I may be guilty of that but Alonso isn't a low-average guy. He's been drawing walks and hitting for average as well as for power. I don't have any particular objection to Alonso in the 2 spot. He seems fine there. I get that they want to go lefty-righty and Alonso has been really good at all the regular #2 hitter stuff, with that insane power besides.
It's Davis at cleanup I don't get. Maybe the idea of the 1-4 spots has changed, and "cleanup" is no longer what it used to be. Or maybe they see something in Davis That would have to be based on a pretty small sample, though, because Davis is only now approaching the equivalent of half a season in the majors.
I'm not sold on Davis yet. But I prefer him to Todd Frazier. He may end up in a platoon-like arrangement with Jed Lowerie. But he really needs to improve his defense.
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In comment 14385196 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 14385187 DonQuixote said:
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In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:
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If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?
McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...
I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.
Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...
Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd
Mike Trout hits second. Aaron Judge hits second. Times have changed. Teams are extremely analytical and nowadays your best hitter is usually hitting second.
Im not a Mets fan so maybe they do things differently, but Id be shocked if Calloway was the one deciding the lineup/batting order. For better or worse, analytics and the front office are making these decisions for the most part.
That's a very good point. Having a power hitter hitting 2nd is new to us, and I can't understand the logic. But following what you just said, it's obviously more than a manager's whim.
The logic is to get your better hits more at bats. Its not completely obvious because batters later in the order might have more RBI opportunities, but I guess it balances out in favor of plate appearances.
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Good to see McNeil in against the lefty. Dude can rake. Gonna need to hang 6 or more again for a shot at the W I imagine. Lets do it!
Another extra base hit. What a start.
The joys and pains of youth in one sequence.
Come on Vargas
Or just give Oswalt these starts. VRgas was lucky against the fish. Hes just non competitive more times than not
LMFAO
Really hope BVW acts accordingly
Or just give Oswalt these starts. VRgas was lucky against the fish. Hes just non competitive more times than not
June 5 or 6, it's the day after the draft.
Yeah no sense punting on the entire game by leaving him in there. Good call to give them a chance of staying in it.
Yeah, he's the 5th starter, but why pretend he's even a decent 5th starter when there were many cheap options out there.
Not much to complain about with BVW off-season, but this is clearly a miss.
They have doe a good job of bouncing right back and getting back some runs after giving up a few. Lets see if they can get a couple back quickly.
Yeah, he's the 5th starter, but why pretend he's even a decent 5th starter when there were many cheap options out there.
Not much to complain about with BVW off-season, but this is clearly a miss.
Literally my only gripe. A big whiff. Hope he rectifies it.
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why can't they see that???
Really hope BVW acts accordingly
In the old days, Vargas would be sent down to AAA to get himself together and he might not ever get back. That isn't as normal as it used to be. Honestly, Vargas should do it if they offer him the chance. Whatever he's got left, he's got to find it or he's going to be home mowing the lawn.
Vargas couldn't locate anything that inning. Awful.
Instead call away brings in the one lichee who isnt a reliever in quick warm up.
And then gets ejected.
Nice
Vargas is non-competitive. I don't even get mad at the guy, I just expect him to fail at this point.
Vargas is non-competitive. I don't even get mad at the guy, I just expect him to fail at this point.
You do realize that Keuchel is also a soft tossing junk baller right? He throws about 88. Not every pitcher needs to throw 99 mph.
Maybe it works out but that's counter-intuitive to me
Maybe it works out but that's counter-intuitive to me
Nice job Metsies.
Just keeps hitting. Been huge w/ RISP already this season too (among others no doubt)
Velocity isn't everything, of course, command, pitch mix, etc. Keuchel has a much better track record than Vargas.
Toussaint is good, tho
Velocity isn't everything, of course, command, pitch mix, etc. Keuchel has a much better track record than Vargas.
Sure but you're talking about the decline of fastball speeds for pitchers who came up making a living off a big fastball. There are plenty of guys that are decent that throw 92 (Which Oswalt actually touched in the first inning). Combine the fact the guy isnt in his normal routine and we dont need a guy to be an ace in the 5th spot, Ill wait and see...
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Guy who's slumped all season finally has a breakout so they sit him? Maybe there's another reason but IMO that momentum is way more important in that situation especially for an everyday player. Think he just had a day off too
Maybe it works out but that's counter-intuitive to me
Maybe Callaway is crazy like a fox. By starting Lagares and Broxton (with a fly ball pitcher on the mound) he is in a position to bring in Nimmo in a double switch. Which you'd anticipate if you think you might be trailing early and need to claw your way back.
Mickey "the prophet" Callaway. If he's that far ahead great, plus I learned something
But if so BVW needs to do something about Vargas immediately <*novel idea*>
There's no such thing as fastball speed dictating whether a player is replacement level or not. Results are the only thing that dictates that.
Thats a better players in the lineup thing.
Team level thinking has definitely changed. They've shifted to a more contact oriented situational approach, whereas in the past the system was more power oriented (taking swings to do damage and not adjusting in the count).
I think we need to go outside the organization to find another starter.
Flexen gave up like 5 runs tonight on 2 homers but I think he had like 10Ks. He's been striking out a ton of hitters early in the season.
Kay might be able to make the jump eventually but not yet.
Good news we only need the 5th starter spot one more time this month with all the off days.
All the evidence says you are correct, but to me it seems like Oswalt has more life than Vargas.
Yeah this is a grueling pace. My kids wanted us all to watch a movie tonight so I was hoping for a quick game. I guess I may have to DVR the rest and can finish it later.
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chore to get through.
Yeah this is a grueling pace. My kids wanted us all to watch a movie tonight so I was hoping for a quick game. I guess I may have to DVR the rest and can finish it later.
Colon might be pitching by the time you finish.
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In comment 14385358 ZGiants98 said:
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chore to get through.
Yeah this is a grueling pace. My kids wanted us all to watch a movie tonight so I was hoping for a quick game. I guess I may have to DVR the rest and can finish it later.
Colon might be pitching by the time you finish.
LOL
Agreed. Im not even advocating to sign Kuechel. But how could you enter the season with Vargas if you really wanted to compete? He looks like hes throwing BP.
Could be a deadline target.
He's made 2 starts - in his first game (obviously without a normal ST) he got pounded and in his 2nd start he threw 6 scoreless innings and struck out 10.
I don't think you get a pick for a player you acquire via trade during the season if they sign elsewhere, I think they need to be on your roster the whole season.
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12 million a year. Free agent and if he signs elsewhere we get a pick
I don't think you get a pick for a player you acquire via trade during the season if they sign elsewhere, I think they need to be on your roster the whole season.
Correct
These players needed to sign minor league deals and they also needed to want to come to the Mets situation VS other teams. Vargas is making 10 million dollars and coming off a half where he pitched to a 3.88 ERA. It is completely rational for the Mets to have wanted to at least see where they were at with him. Now sign a bunch of those guys to AAA? Sure. But you can't make those players sign minor league deals. Actually, the Mets WERE linked to most of them.
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5th spot (I was one of them) He has a 7 ERA in Scranton.
He's made 2 starts - in his first game (obviously without a normal ST) he got pounded and in his 2nd start he threw 6 scoreless innings and struck out 10.
Didnt catch his second game so thanks for that. It will bear watching what he does this year because he's clearly regressing.
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12 million a year. Free agent and if he signs elsewhere we get a pick
I don't think you get a pick for a player you acquire via trade during the season if they sign elsewhere, I think they need to be on your roster the whole season.
Thx for info pj. I think ur right
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Also, Oswald obviously is not the answer. Might actually be worse than Vargas.
m
Agreed. Im not even advocating to sign Kuechel. But how could you enter the season with Vargas if you really wanted to compete? He looks like hes throwing BP.
Nah, you have to throw strikes in BP...
He just mentioned that he is having surgery to remove a lump from his chest.
The Mets lineup was really geared up to face a lefty. Not surprised Toussant is mowing down guys like Lagares, Broxton, and Davis.
Sometimes these crafty lefties can last forever. Vargas isn't one of them
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The Braves have some hard decisions to make. If Newcomb continues his inconsistent ways they need to seriously consider moving him to the pen or AAA and going with Toussaint.
The Mets lineup was really geared up to face a lefty. Not surprised Toussant is mowing down guys like Lagares, Broxton, and Davis.
What about McNeil and Alonso?
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In comment 14385422 Jay on the Island said:
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The Braves have some hard decisions to make. If Newcomb continues his inconsistent ways they need to seriously consider moving him to the pen or AAA and going with Toussaint.
The Mets lineup was really geared up to face a lefty. Not surprised Toussant is mowing down guys like Lagares, Broxton, and Davis.
What about McNeil and Alonso?
lol. I didn't mean every single player in the lineup. And he is pitching well. Good for him.
Sometimes these crafty lefties can last forever. Vargas isn't one of them
Also not looking OK physically. Wonder if there is anything off the diamond.
Yeah I know who he is and watched him live in ST. Looks much better tonight than I saw him last time.
Well, his next start is an off day so they probably skip him. I think it was his last start. That was really bad and BVW wont mess around. He'll make a switch.
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I know you probably dont know much about Toussaint because hes a Brave but he has arguably the highest upside of any Braves prospect.
Yeah I know who he is and watched him live in ST. Looks much better tonight than I saw him last time.
He struggled this spring which is why he started in AAA. He was very good last season. He had a good game vs. the Mets last year IIRC.
Looked like a strong throw. In this case it seems like if accurate there was a good chance at an out. But it wasn't a normal SB attempt of course being a read off a ball in the dirt by Freeman
And his memory on his 2 Ks from ages 12-14. lol good stuff
He could be your future ace.
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Is looking great tonight.
He could be your future ace.
Hes got the stuff but hes got a long way to go. Snitker will probably keep him in the pen though and continue to ride the struggling vet instead.
Large mass does not sound good. Jeez.
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Does Vargas get another start, or do they pull the plug?
Well, his next start is an off day so they probably skip him. I think it was his last start. That was really bad and BVW wont mess around. He'll make a switch.
Ken Tosenthal said hes out of rotation
Keeps all 4 backend relievers in play so you're really not hurting anything. Trade for another middle reliever and you're fine in the pen. Worth a shot.
Mets are still in first and in a pretty good position to take 3 of 4 in this series with deGrom going tomorrow.
Im actually still pretty impressed at the amount of runs we were able to score and tack on this one in spite of the mess Vargas/Oswalt created. Get em tomorrow.
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Mickey Callaway says Seth Lugo and Robert Gsellman are options on the table if the Mets bump Vargas from thre rotation.
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Mickey Callaway says Seth Lugo and Robert Gsellman are options on the table if the Mets bump Vargas from thre rotation.
Good?! And tax an already over taxed pen? No thank you
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Mike Puma
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Mickey Callaway says Seth Lugo and Robert Gsellman are options on the table if the Mets bump Vargas from thre rotation.
Good?! And tax an already over taxed pen? No thank you
How would that tax the pen? It might weaken it but it certainly woundnt tax it.
Lugo was moved to the pen for a reason. He's not a starter. Better than Vargas? Maybe. Better than Keuchel? Unlikely.
if the mets were going to sign only one of Keuchel or Kimbrel I think Keuchel makes more sense.
Likely, they sign neither.
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Essentially Mets don't view any depth pieces as an upgrade.
And it's still status quo with Keuchel, per a source. Sides not close.
I have both on my Keeper League team and my NA spot is accounted for :(
I don't mind if the Braves win when those two start as long as they lose every other day.
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Does Vargas get another start, or do they pull the plug?
Well, his next start is an off day so they probably skip him. I think it was his last start. That was really bad and BVW wont mess around. He'll make a switch.
So about him not being atrocious...?:)
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In comment 14385454 CMicks3110 said:
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Does Vargas get another start, or do they pull the plug?
Well, his next start is an off day so they probably skip him. I think it was his last start. That was really bad and BVW wont mess around. He'll make a switch.
So about him not being atrocious...?:)
I had no problem giving him a chance based on his second half last year but I also have no problem moving on. Two games in he cant locate and looks like a mess. This is a competitive year IMO so move on. My bigger point was always that on this staff, a 5th starter isnt a huge concern and we should be able to tweak and acquire somebody else pretty cheap regardless imo.
Such a joke. We gave up nothing. Davis is just barely passed being a legit prospect himself.
The team that signs Keuchel cannot give a qualifying offer, so theres no compensation next offseason.
What is he 5 7? Please. Hes far away. I would have been more annoyed if we gave up Newton but we are talking about acquiring a guy with huge power potential ready now.
Stuck here listening to rambling crap w hank Aaron.
Also, not being helped out by his fielders.
and of course the BP
so here we go
Stuck here listening to rambling crap w hank Aaron.
Yeah, who wants to hear Hank aaron.
He just corrected it...
Touche announcer. Touche
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Its like they dont even cover the play by play and game action. Too bad mlb tv was blacked out here. Dont even know why. Prob bc espn assholes.
Stuck here listening to rambling crap w hank Aaron.
Yeah, who wants to hear Hank aaron.
Not all of us.
If I wanted to hear a ted talk w Aaron id Go to one. When the screen for the game is 1/3 size of the Boring media room w him in it, AND they arent even telling you play-by-play, yeah screw that espn crap