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NFT: Mets at Braves Game 3

ZGiants98 : 4/13/2019 4:36 pm
Mets Lineup

Jeff McNeil – 2B
Pete Alonso – 1B
Michael Conforto – RF
J.D. Davis – 3B
Travis d’Arnaud – C
Keon Broxton - LF
Amed Rosario - SS
Juan Lagares – CF
Jason Vargas - LHP

Wow. Definitely one of the best chances the Braves are going to have at a win against us, maybe ever. lol. A Vargas start and Nimmo, Cano, and Ramos all out tonight. Broxton, Lagares, TDA, and JD Davis all in the same lineup. Oh well. I feel like tonight is house money anyway with deGrom going tomorrow. LGM!!

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Braves Lineup  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2019 4:36 pm : link
1. Ozzie Albies (S) 2B
2. Josh Donaldson (R) 3B
3. F. Freeman (L) 1B
4. R. Acuna (R) CF
5. Nick Markakis (L) RF
6. Dansby Swanson (R) SS
7. Johan Camargo (S) LF
8. Alex Jackson (R) C
9. Sean Newcomb (L) P.
I hope they can keep beating up on the East  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 4:44 pm : link
.
I don't understand Davis as the cleanup hitter  
81_Great_Dane : 4/13/2019 4:54 pm : link
If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?

McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...

I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.
I can see him  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 5:00 pm : link
not wanting to put the extra pressure of hitting cleanup on Alonso this early. Everything is going right for the rookie why mess with it?
So, Mickey says he to not expect McNeil at second since he  
PhiPsi125 : 4/13/2019 5:11 pm : link
hasn’t had any reps there...and McNeil is playing second. Davis is statistically the worse defensive 3rd baseman and Davis is playing third.

I get wanting to rest guys but is it necessary to purposely put your team in a position to lose?
JD Davis owns lefties though  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2019 5:16 pm : link
So I actually get that part. I just dont like resting a bunch of players in the same game your 5th starter is going. It's almost like waiving the white flag. It's baseball though, so we'll see.
You guys sure like to complain  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 5:17 pm : link
McNeil has plenty of experience at second. Yes he hasn't this season, and Callaway said that but for all we know McNeil went to Callaway and told him he was conformable at 2nd and it's not a problem playing there.
Also one really bad defensive game  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2019 5:19 pm : link
can heavily skew DRS and UZR this early in the season so I'd be hesitant to take it as gospil yet.

It's fine to look at to see how players are doing over an extremely small sample but it probably won't offer an accurate portrayal for a couple months at least.

Hoping for some magic from the  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2019 5:28 pm : link
Magic Man tonight. lol. I expect Oswalt by the 4th sadly against this Braves lineup.
RE: I can see him  
81_Great_Dane : 4/13/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14385142 steve in ky said:
Quote:
not wanting to put the extra pressure of hitting cleanup on Alonso this early. Everything is going right for the rookie why mess with it?
That's a fair point, but Davis has 66 ML games over two seasons prior to 2019. He's almost as green as Alonso. Why put the pressure on him?
Smart to go with our best defensive OF  
Metnut : 4/13/2019 5:29 pm : link
given the likelihood of there being a good number of hard hit fly balls with Vargas throwing tonight.
RE: Smart to go with our best defensive OF  
81_Great_Dane : 4/13/2019 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14385170 Metnut said:
Quote:
given the likelihood of there being a good number of hard hit fly balls with Vargas throwing tonight.
Ha! True.
RE: I don't understand Davis as the cleanup hitter  
DonQuixote : 4/13/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?

McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...

I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.


Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...
RE: You guys sure like to complain  
PhiPsi125 : 4/13/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14385161 steve in ky said:
Quote:
McNeil has plenty of experience at second. Yes he hasn't this season, and Callaway said that but for all we know McNeil went to Callaway and told him he was conformable at 2nd and it's not a problem playing there.


Well, not everyone is as “ho hum” as you seem to be. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Yes, he has plenty experience at 2nd. That wasn’t my point. If you are going to publicly say that a player hasn’t had enough reps at a position to be comfortable with it, then I sure as hell hope that the manager wouldn’t be talked into it by the player. And, I’m sorry, but Mickey sure hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt with anything he does yet. At least not for me.

It’s okay to disagree with things. The Mets don’t exactly have a long track record of success. Or any track record of success really.
RE: RE: I don't understand Davis as the cleanup hitter  
Mike in NY : 4/13/2019 6:05 pm : link
In comment 14385187 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?

McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...

I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.



Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...


Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd
RE: RE: RE: I don't understand Davis as the cleanup hitter  
BigBlueShock : 4/13/2019 6:24 pm : link
In comment 14385196 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14385187 DonQuixote said:


Quote:


In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?

McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...

I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.



Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...



Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd

Mike Trout hits second. Aaron Judge hits second. Times have changed. Teams are extremely analytical and nowadays your best hitter is usually hitting second.

I’m not a Mets fan so maybe they do things differently, but I’d be shocked if Calloway was the one deciding the lineup/batting order. For better or worse, analytics and the front office are making these decisions for the most part.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't understand Davis as the cleanup hitter  
Ira : 4/13/2019 6:27 pm : link
In comment 14385203 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14385196 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 14385187 DonQuixote said:


Quote:


In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?

McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...

I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.



Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...



Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd


Mike Trout hits second. Aaron Judge hits second. Times have changed. Teams are extremely analytical and nowadays your best hitter is usually hitting second.

I’m not a Mets fan so maybe they do things differently, but I’d be shocked if Calloway was the one deciding the lineup/batting order. For better or worse, analytics and the front office are making these decisions for the most part.


That's a very good point. Having a power hitter hitting 2nd is new to us, and I can't understand the logic. But following what you just said, it's obviously more than a manager's whim.
JD Davis in small sample size  
CMicks3110 : 4/13/2019 6:43 pm : link
has been excellent at the plate this season; especially on advanced metrics (avg. exit velocity is 10th in all of MLB right after Josh Donaldson; he has 14 hard hit balls greater than 95 mph +)

He also has shown tremendous range and arm at third; the kids an athlete. He may have made a few errors, but its very early.

The kid is going to be a player in my view, a huge steal. Love me JD. No problem hitting him 4, would suck if he lost playing time to Frazier.

Varags is going to get  
CMicks3110 : 4/13/2019 6:45 pm : link
toasted tonight. Garbage pitcher, hopefully Oswalt comes in and shows himself to be something. His velocity was up in the spring, so maybe he can turn himself into a solid #5.
..  
CMicks3110 : 4/13/2019 6:47 pm : link
Matt Ehalt
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@MattEhalt
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What does Mickey expect out of Jason Vargas today?

"I expect Vargas."

Well, that settles that.
Hoping this Crash Test Dummy keeps us somewhat  
Rob in Rockaway : 4/13/2019 7:00 pm : link
in the game.
I agree with the other posters  
CMicks3110 : 4/13/2019 7:03 pm : link
that this is probably the best defensive team we can put on the field right now, maybe sans Dom and d'Arnaud. But the players with the most range for sure.
Power hitter at top of order:  
81_Great_Dane : 4/13/2019 7:05 pm : link
Bill James, in one of his 80s Baseball Abstracts, talked about how one time the Brewers put Gorman Thomas (low batting average, high on-base percentage) in the leadoff spot. They scored 9 runs but the manager was so excoriated for it that they never did it again. There was simply too much prejudice against having a low-average power hitter at the top of the batting order.

I may be guilty of that but Alonso isn't a low-average guy. He's been drawing walks and hitting for average as well as for power. I don't have any particular objection to Alonso in the 2 spot. He seems fine there. I get that they want to go lefty-righty and Alonso has been really good at all the regular #2 hitter stuff, with that insane power besides.

It's Davis at cleanup I don't get. Maybe the idea of the 1-4 spots has changed, and "cleanup" is no longer what it used to be. Or maybe they see something in Davis That would have to be based on a pretty small sample, though, because Davis is only now approaching the equivalent of half a season in the majors.

I'm not sold on Davis yet. But I prefer him to Todd Frazier. He may end up in a platoon-like arrangement with Jed Lowerie. But he really needs to improve his defense.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't understand Davis as the cleanup hitter  
DonQuixote : 4/13/2019 7:05 pm : link
In comment 14385204 Ira said:
Quote:
In comment 14385203 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 14385196 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 14385187 DonQuixote said:


Quote:


In comment 14385138 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


If you're going to bat cleanup an unproven guy, with no record of success in the majors, why not Alonso?

McNeil, Rosario, Conforto, Alonso, Davis, D'Arnaud, Broxton, Lagares...

I dunno, I don't get what Callaway does sometimes. But I don't think he's stupid -- he just has a different idea of how this should work.



Sometimes you put a hot hitter in that 2 spot because they will on average get more at bats...



Milwaukee bats Yelich 2nd


Mike Trout hits second. Aaron Judge hits second. Times have changed. Teams are extremely analytical and nowadays your best hitter is usually hitting second.

I’m not a Mets fan so maybe they do things differently, but I’d be shocked if Calloway was the one deciding the lineup/batting order. For better or worse, analytics and the front office are making these decisions for the most part.



That's a very good point. Having a power hitter hitting 2nd is new to us, and I can't understand the logic. But following what you just said, it's obviously more than a manager's whim.


The logic is to get your better hits more at bats. It’s not completely obvious because batters later in the order might have more RBI opportunities, but I guess it balances out in favor of plate appearances.
Lonk - ( New Window )
Well, I won’t have jetlag  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:22 pm : link
When I get back to NYC on Monday. These 120am starts are keeping me on New York time!

Good to see McNeil in against the lefty. Dude can rake. Gonna need to hang 6 or more again for a shot at the W I imagine. Let’s do it!
Alonso  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:23 pm : link
Back in and running!
RE: Alonso  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 7:24 pm : link
In comment 14385242 jpkmets said:
Quote:
Back in and running!


Another extra base hit. What a start.
Ugh  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 7:28 pm : link
Just can't make an out in that situation
RE: Ugh  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14385246 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Just can't make an out in that situation


The joys and pains of youth in one sequence.

Come on Vargas
Vargas nibbling. Got the feeling of  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:36 pm : link
Early trouble
I'll take Freeman hitting a SAC fly in thgat situation any day  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 7:39 pm : link
now lets get a double play
Really would love to sign keuchel  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:44 pm : link
When it doesn’t cost compensation ... I believe June 1

Or just give Oswalt these starts. VRgas was lucky against the fish. He’s just non competitive more times than not
Good news is that Mets can  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:46 pm : link
Get through April with only one more Vargas start with off days
Awful  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:48 pm : link
I’d hook him as soon as oswalt can go. Can’t keep running this guy out there
I’ll take “Totally Expected Outcomes” for $1000, Alex.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/13/2019 7:51 pm : link
Good lord.
Geez  
Amazinz : 4/13/2019 7:52 pm : link
Vargas is a bag of dog shit.
He's not a fucking Major League pitcher  
Rob in Rockaway : 4/13/2019 7:52 pm : link
why can't they see that???
At least he got a quick hook  
CMicks3110 : 4/13/2019 7:52 pm : link
.
RE: I’ll take “Totally Expected Outcomes” for $1000, Alex.  
Rob in Rockaway : 4/13/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14385267 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Good lord.


LMFAO
Good, mickey  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:53 pm : link
This guy deserves no,rope. Hopefully oswalt wiggles out and gives us a chance
What a gabage start  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 7:53 pm : link
At least make them hit it.
RE: He's not a fucking Major League pitcher  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14385270 Rob in Rockaway said:
Quote:
why can't they see that???


Really hope BVW acts accordingly
RE: Really would love to sign keuchel  
pjcas18 : 4/13/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14385259 jpkmets said:
Quote:
When it doesn’t cost compensation ... I believe June 1

Or just give Oswalt these starts. VRgas was lucky against the fish. He’s just non competitive more times than not


June 5 or 6, it's the day after the draft.
RE: At least he got a quick hook  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14385271 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
.


Yeah no sense punting on the entire game by leaving him in there. Good call to give them a chance of staying in it.
The worst thing about Vargas  
pjcas18 : 4/13/2019 7:56 pm : link
is every single one of us (almost) expected this and begged for an upgrade. So many cheap options out there.

Yeah, he's the 5th starter, but why pretend he's even a decent 5th starter when there were many cheap options out there.

Not much to complain about with BVW off-season, but this is clearly a miss.
Debacle of an inning  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:58 pm : link
Hopefully the bats can get going
Debacle of an inning  
jpkmets : 4/13/2019 7:58 pm : link
Hopefully the bats can get going
And oh yeah, thanks for barking at the umpire after yanking  
PhiPsi125 : 4/13/2019 7:58 pm : link
Vargas. Pretty much ensured that Oswalt would get nothing close...which is exactly what happened. Mickey is an awful manager.
RE: Debacle of an inning  
steve in ky : 4/13/2019 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14385279 jpkmets said:
Quote:
Hopefully the bats can get going


They have doe a good job of bouncing right back and getting back some runs after giving up a few. Lets see if they can get a couple back quickly.
Calloway smart to back up his pitcher there.  
DonQuixote : 4/13/2019 7:59 pm : link
Vargas did have that second out.
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