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Drew Lock and pick 6

crooza172 : 4/13/2019 8:54 pm
If the giants feel heís the top QB on the board, that is one thing. If they really feel he is a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years, they have to take him at six. I donít care what defender is on the board at that point. You donít get cute. You take your guy. There is only one defender that was good enough to carry a team to a Super Bowl and there is no LT in this draft.
If they feel....  
JohnB : 4/13/2019 8:58 pm : link
That's a rather large "if"
Agree  
Jim Bur(n)t : 4/13/2019 8:58 pm : link
If you have a conviction... Take him.
RE: If they feel....  
crooza172 : 4/13/2019 9:02 pm : link
In comment 14385393 JohnB said:
Quote:
That's a rather large "if"


I just VERY strongly feel if we donít take a QB at six we should not take one at all this year. My point is if they feel that strongly about him or another QB, they would and should not pass on the player. By passing strongly points to some reservations about the player and thus you punt to 2020. Period.
Hard to  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/13/2019 9:10 pm : link
Disagree
RE: Agree  
Blue21 : 4/13/2019 9:12 pm : link
In comment 14385394 Jim Bur(n)t said:
Quote:
If you have a conviction... Take him.


Absolutely. If you have a conviction that he is a franchise QB you take him at 6. You don't hope to take him later or grab the next best thing. There are many DE. LB's etc in this draft but the most important player is your "franchise" QB.
Second Round and Later Super Bowl QBs  
Jim in NH : 4/13/2019 9:13 pm : link
Bart Starr (2) Round 17 Player 200
Roger Staubach (2) Round 10 Player 129
Ken Stabler Round 2 Player 52
Joe Montana (4) Round 3 Player 82
Joe Theismann Round 4 Player 99
Jeff Hostetler Round 3 Player 59
Mark Rypien Round 6 Player 146
Brett Favre Round 2 Player 33
Kurt Warner undrafted
Tom Brady (6) Round 6 Player 199
Brad Johnson Round 9 Player 227
Russell Wilson Round 3 Player 75
Nick Foles Round 3 Player 88
If one of the top defensive  
TommyWiseau : 4/13/2019 9:18 pm : link
Players don't fall to 6 and someone like Denver really wants the kid (assuming we are not interested) a move down for their first this year and 2020 picks would be ideal
Any of the asshats mentioned  
Big blue 86 : 4/13/2019 9:20 pm : link
anything on the NYG interest in lock aside from raanan on his pod hasnít been much buzz on him
RE: If one of the top defensive  
Justlurking : 4/13/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14385424 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
Players don't fall to 6 and someone like Denver really wants the kid (assuming we are not interested) a move down for their first this year and 2020 picks would be ideal


If they don't want a QB and there are offers they should move down. Agree 100%.
RE: Any of the asshats mentioned  
Blue21 : 4/13/2019 9:43 pm : link
In comment 14385427 Big blue 86 said:
Quote:
anything on the NYG interest in lock aside from raanan on his pod hasnít been much buzz on him


I believe JonC and jtgiants both have said Giants have strong interest in Lock or something to that affect. In other words him he being their top rated QB. So yes some asshats have mentioned this.
If  
AcidTest : 4/13/2019 9:47 pm : link
they want Lock, they will have to take him at #6. I agree they should consider a trade down if they don't.
Thanks blue  
Big blue 86 : 4/13/2019 9:51 pm : link
I had missed that
RE: Second Round and Later Super Bowl QBs  
Deejboy : 4/13/2019 10:02 pm : link
In comment 14385419 Jim in NH said:
Quote:
Bart Starr (2) Round 17 Player 200
Roger Staubach (2) Round 10 Player 129
Ken Stabler Round 2 Player 52
Joe Montana (4) Round 3 Player 82
Joe Theismann Round 4 Player 99
Jeff Hostetler Round 3 Player 59
Mark Rypien Round 6 Player 146
Brett Favre Round 2 Player 33
Kurt Warner undrafted
Tom Brady (6) Round 6 Player 199
Brad Johnson Round 9 Player 227
Russell Wilson Round 3 Player 75
Nick Foles Round 3 Player 88

The majority of them were from 20-30 years ago when the scouting and technology wasn't as good.
RE: If one of the top defensive  
FrankieR : 4/13/2019 10:10 pm : link
In comment 14385424 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
Players don't fall to 6 and someone like Denver really wants the kid (assuming we are not interested) a move down for their first this year and 2020 picks would be ideal


Cant see that happening....giving up next years first to move to our spot.

I am okay with Lock. I am not sold on his attitude, but he has a rocket arm and 3 years in the SEC is nothing to sneeze at.
RE: Second Round and Later Super Bowl QBs  
larryflower37 : 4/13/2019 10:32 pm : link
In comment 14385419 Jim in NH said:
Quote:
Bart Starr (2) Round 17 Player 200
Roger Staubach (2) Round 10 Player 129
Ken Stabler Round 2 Player 52
Joe Montana (4) Round 3 Player 82
Joe Theismann Round 4 Player 99
Jeff Hostetler Round 3 Player 59
Mark Rypien Round 6 Player 146
Brett Favre Round 2 Player 33
Kurt Warner undrafted
Tom Brady (6) Round 6 Player 199
Brad Johnson Round 9 Player 227
Russell Wilson Round 3 Player 75
Nick Foles Round 3 Player 88

Problem with that list is the time frame.
With the internet and amount of scouting available.
It doesn't happen very often anymore.
Wilson and Brees dropped because of size not skill level.
6% of QB's drafted over the last 20 years have become franchise type QB's
Tend to agree, especially if  
George from PA : 4/13/2019 10:35 pm : link
The top defenders are gone

And

If you plan to trade up for lock from 17.....it might have less competition if QBs were selwcted beforehand
Lock has a nice arm, but  
Simms11 : 4/13/2019 10:50 pm : link
seems very Cutleresque to me, in terms of personality.
RE: Lock has a nice arm, but  
FrankieR : 4/13/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14385508 Simms11 said:
Quote:
seems very Cutleresque to me, in terms of personality.


That Cutler comparison I dont really get. Cutler was an ass to be sure, but was still a pretty solid QB for many years. The smoking thing and lack of heart were surprises.

Lock's production dwarfs JC's in the SEC and he did it for 3 years.

There's nothing to suggest that Lock has off field issues. Was there anything that linked Favre with Percs? Lock is kinda anti-Eli and kinda why I havent taken a shine to him. But he has a rocket arm, can move amd I would be just fine with him with a year to learn.
RE: Tend to agree, especially if  
FrankieR : 4/13/2019 10:59 pm : link
In comment 14385504 George from PA said:
Quote:
The top defenders are gone

And

If you plan to trade up for lock from 17.....it might have less competition if QBs were selwcted beforehand


THIS! If Williams, Bosa, Allen, Oliver are all gone, take the QB at 6.
RE: Lock has a nice arm, but  
Joey in VA : 4/13/2019 11:04 pm : link
In comment 14385508 Simms11 said:
Quote:
seems very Cutleresque to me, in terms of personality.
It's the twang, go watch is post pro day interviews with the NFLN, he's a hard charger, Cutler is like Eeyore. Also, Lock can scoot, he has really good speed for a QB. And while I was told a QB is not in play at 6, I would agree that if you like him enough you nab him. If it was me, I'd take him and not look back UNLESS Allen, Q or Bosa fell and they won't.
I like Lock  
Rjanyg : 4/14/2019 12:18 am : link
He might be the pick at 6
RE: RE: Lock has a nice arm, but  
FrankieR : 4/14/2019 12:21 am : link
In comment 14385513 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14385508 Simms11 said:


Quote:


seems very Cutleresque to me, in terms of personality.

It's the twang, go watch is post pro day interviews with the NFLN, he's a hard charger, Cutler is like Eeyore. Also, Lock can scoot, he has really good speed for a QB. And while I was told a QB is not in play at 6, I would agree that if you like him enough you nab him. If it was me, I'd take him and not look back UNLESS Allen, Q or Bosa fell and they won't.


Yea Cutler kinda came out of nowhere leading to that draft because of his numbers. Lock seems like a solid teammate.

I cant tell with this class. Its weird. Lock has the FULL resume. Haskins has one exceptional year...but sweat a lot during the pro day and Jones seemed to be behind the 8 ball given the talent around him.

I would prob be okay with Haskins or Lock at 6 but not Jones....who Id prob be okay with at 17 but ideally 37 because he might be a sleeper great one.
Iím paying close attention to the bills  
Giantsfanincuse : 4/14/2019 12:29 am : link
Close contact with dgó seems like a sweet spot if there ever was one to move up for lock or the QB of the giants fancy...
If they have a conviction that he's a franchise QB...  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/14/2019 12:30 am : link
....and didn't feel the same way about Darnold then I seriously question their fucking jugdement.

I'm good with Barkely at #2 overall last year for the same reason I want them to pick the best player available at #6 this year.

1) We have way too many holes to fill on this roster; and

2) All these 2019 QBs are indistinguishable.

That said, Darnold is better of any of the QBs this year.

Picking any QB at #6 will set this franchise back.
...  
You'reMyBoyBlue!! : 4/14/2019 12:35 am : link
I'm hoping for Lock at 6.

I'd obviously prefer not having to, but I'd even be ok with trading up to secure him (feel like the Raiders might take him at 4).

I absolutely think he's a franchise type QB and would be incredibly excited if the Giants take him.
RE: If they have a conviction that he's a franchise QB...  
FrankieR : 4/14/2019 12:38 am : link
In comment 14385543 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
....and didn't feel the same way about Darnold then I seriously question their fucking jugdement.

I'm good with Barkely at #2 overall last year for the same reason I want them to pick the best player available at #6 this year.

1) We have way too many holes to fill on this roster; and

2) All these 2019 QBs are indistinguishable.

That said, Darnold is better of any of the QBs this year.

Picking any QB at #6 will set this franchise back.


Not everybody agrees with you and nothing in your argument tells me you have a clue about last year vs this one.

Mayfield looks good.
Darnold looked solid
Allen looked like a wild card.
Rosen's team is looking to move on from him apparently.
Jackson looks like.... he is a threat to run the ball. Unless you are Go Terps who sees him as a monster.

Give me a break, I would roll the dice with Haskins or Lock in the 1st or Jones in the 2nd against any fool but Mayfield from last year. Mayfield might be the real deal.
RE: RE: If they have a conviction that he's a franchise QB...  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/14/2019 12:41 am : link
In comment 14385546 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14385543 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


....and didn't feel the same way about Darnold then I seriously question their fucking jugdement.

I'm good with Barkely at #2 overall last year for the same reason I want them to pick the best player available at #6 this year.

1) We have way too many holes to fill on this roster; and

2) All these 2019 QBs are indistinguishable.

That said, Darnold is better of any of the QBs this year.

Picking any QB at #6 will set this franchise back.



Not everybody agrees with you and nothing in your argument tells me you have a clue about last year vs this one.

Mayfield looks good.
Darnold looked solid
Allen looked like a wild card.
Rosen's team is looking to move on from him apparently.
Jackson looks like.... he is a threat to run the ball. Unless you are Go Terps who sees him as a monster.

Give me a break, I would roll the dice with Haskins or Lock in the 1st or Jones in the 2nd against any fool but Mayfield from last year. Mayfield might be the real deal.


If you think this year's group of QBs are better than Darnold then you don't watch a lot of football.
The 6  
joeinpa : 4/14/2019 6:05 am : link
Pick doesnít guarantee a sure thing at any position. If they think Lock has a chance to be the guy, I m happy with the pick
As Gettleman Said  
pa_giant_fan : 4/14/2019 6:21 am : link
No guts, no glory
So @ 6 he might be the pick, we'll just have to wait and see.
RE: RE: Second Round and Later Super Bowl QBs  
USAF NYG Fan : 4/14/2019 6:35 am : link
In comment 14385503 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14385419 Jim in NH said:


Quote:


Bart Starr (2) Round 17 Player 200
Roger Staubach (2) Round 10 Player 129
Ken Stabler Round 2 Player 52
Joe Montana (4) Round 3 Player 82
Joe Theismann Round 4 Player 99
Jeff Hostetler Round 3 Player 59
Mark Rypien Round 6 Player 146
Brett Favre Round 2 Player 33
Kurt Warner undrafted
Tom Brady (6) Round 6 Player 199
Brad Johnson Round 9 Player 227
Russell Wilson Round 3 Player 75
Nick Foles Round 3 Player 88


Problem with that list is the time frame.
With the internet and amount of scouting available.
It doesn't happen very often anymore.
Wilson and Brees dropped because of size not skill level.
6% of QB's drafted over the last 20 years have become franchise type QB's
Actually there is a lot of problems with that list. A few were already mentioned like the one above.

1. It only shows the QBs drafted after the 1st but doesn't show it's comparison of the QBs that were drafted in the 1st round. This is a common tactic used to prove one's point by neglecting the counter-argument.

2. It compares all of the players drafted after the 1st round as being an equal number to those being drafted in the 1st round. So today that equates to roughly, 32 draft positions vs 192 (32 teams X 6 remaining rounds) draft positions. That being said, the 1st round QBs still win out and it's not even close.

There are plenty of sites that have already done this so I'll just post the NFL link as I think it makes this very clear. It's a little out-dated but it's still very clear. The success rate at hitting on a QB in the draft is FAR greater in the 1st round and it's not close. This is especially true for a Super Bowl winning QB.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowlchamps/quarterbacks - ( New Window )
Kind of a scary thread title when discussing a QB...  
Klaatu : 4/14/2019 6:46 am : link
Don't you think?
Agree that if you think any of these guys is your  
Mike from Ohio : 4/14/2019 8:34 am : link
future at the position, you take them at #6. But we have no idea if they feel that way about any of the QBs in this draft just like we didnít know about 2018, despite what everyone here regurgitates about them passing on franchise QBs last year.

I wonít be surprised to see the Giants take a QB at #6, but I would be very surprised by one at #17. That would feel like them taking a guy they liked, not loved, just because he was still around and was good value.
"The success rate at hitting on a QB in the draft is FAR greater"  
Jim in NH : 4/14/2019 2:00 pm : link
To know the success RATE you need to know how many first round (and, as most here would have it, first round ABOVE TEN) QB picks flamed out or were average.
"The success rate at hitting on a QB in the draft is FAR greater"  
Jim in NH : 4/14/2019 2:03 pm : link
To know the success RATE you need to know how many first round (and, as most here would have it, first round ABOVE TEN) QB picks flamed out or were average.

I will try to get some data on that before the draft.

But my point with this list isn't to say, don't draft Philip Rivers or Ben Roethlisberger if they are available. It's to say that there's a lot of talent after 1-10 for GMs who can recognize talent, and the ones who can't always miss anyway.
I expect defense at 6,  
TC : 4/14/2019 2:39 pm : link
possibly Lock at 17, or Jones at 34, if either are still there.

Giants are reported to have had private meetings with each. Some pundits have each player rated around where the Giants have their second 1st and their 2nd round picks.

IMO, Jones has the better mechanics, Lock more fire and better mobility. I think Lock has more upside, Jones will be a manager if he can handle pressure better.



RE: Second Round and Later Super Bowl QBs  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2019 6:38 am : link
In comment 14385419 Jim in NH said:
Quote:
Bart Starr (2) Round 17 Player 200
Roger Staubach (2) Round 10 Player 129
Ken Stabler Round 2 Player 52
Joe Montana (4) Round 3 Player 82
Joe Theismann Round 4 Player 99
Jeff Hostetler Round 3 Player 59
Mark Rypien Round 6 Player 146
Brett Favre Round 2 Player 33
Kurt Warner undrafted
Tom Brady (6) Round 6 Player 199
Brad Johnson Round 9 Player 227
Russell Wilson Round 3 Player 75
Nick Foles Round 3 Player 88

Jim, just stop already. It's embarrassing to see you still struggling with basic math.

Go count how many QBs are taken in the 2nd round or later. This isn't complicated, despite you literally posting nothing other than this particular point (flawed as it is) for the past two years.
Not sure taking a QB  
Hades07 : 4/15/2019 9:04 am : link
at pick 6 is a good omen.
RE: RE: RE: If they have a conviction that he's a franchise QB...  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/15/2019 9:55 am : link
Quote:

If you think this year's group of QBs are better than Darnold then you don't watch a lot of football.


So I guess we are just supposed to ignore the fact that he is a turnover machine?

Funny how Darnold lovers never go near the subject of turnovers.
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