can't wait, but I must admit it is a little bittersweet.
The trailers all look awesome, I've avoided redditt so I don't get any actual leaked plots.
thought I'd start a discussion thread, in case people want to discuss the final season.
Also, on a side note, this is like the old school HBO Sunday night lineups with GOT, Barry, than Veep.
I'm reasonably confident the ending will be done well for 2 reasons:
1. I'd imagine it's 1 of the things that Martin has basically done entirely on his own (at least structurally). Those moments ("the door") have tended to be the "holy shit" episodes, along with the crazy battle episodes.
2. the directors of most episodes this season are the guys who have directed all of the great episodes - 5 of the 6 final episodes are from Sapochnik and Nutter whose credits include the Red Wedding, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, and Winds of Winter (and then the final ep is directed by Benioff and Weiss).
So while I expect the story to end in a bittersweet way, it should be done really well and the battles will probably be epic.
I think a lot of people are gonna die.
"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."
And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."
The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :)
Link - ( New Window )
I am hoping the ending is not simply who ends up on the Iron Throne. Dani’s arc has been that of someone who wants to break the wheel. Jon is not interested in being King. The ending should be a much larger transformation of that world than simply who wins.
Why Not? If they offer some insight and better understanding it makes for better immersion into the final episodes.
Very much looking forward to tonight.
"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."
And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."
The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :) Link - ( New Window )
This is referring to the legend of Azor Ahai and Nisa Nisa, which has been referrenced a number of times over the past 7 seasons. The last time supposedly the whitewalkers attacked, Azor Ahai beat them by forging a special sword that became magic when he plunged into his wife's (Nisa Nisa) heart as a sacrifice. If you subscibe to the this then maybe Jon Snow plunges it into the heart of Melisndre? Or Dany?
I do like where the main protagonists arcs are heading, to the poster above Dany seems to want to break the cycle, not sure if that is her sitting in the Iron Throne or completely dismantling the structure of the 7 Kingdoms. Jon has no interest in ruling either. Makes for an interesting ending when you figure those two are the greatest likelihood to be leading/uniting Westeros in the end.
Can’t wait to watch the final season! Wish I rewatched more episodes, but overall glad there will be some closure to this story something Martin doesn’t really care to do I the books.
I don’t know how it will end, but I am hoping from something more than Jon and Dany win, the white walkers are defeated, and everyone lives happily ever after. Thankfully I don’t think they will do that.
:)
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what will ultimately transpire? Here's a great quote from Red Priest Thoros of Myr.
Would be consistent with betraying family.
"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."
And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."
The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :) Link - ( New Window )
This is referring to the legend of Azor Ahai and Nisa Nisa, which has been referrenced a number of times over the past 7 seasons. The last time supposedly the whitewalkers attacked, Azor Ahai beat them by forging a special sword that became magic when he plunged into his wife's (Nisa Nisa) heart as a sacrifice. If you subscibe to the this then maybe Jon Snow plunges it into the heart of Melisndre? Or Dany?
Quote:
what will ultimately transpire? Here's a great quote from Red Priest Thoros of Myr.
This would be consistent with the betraying of family part of the prophecy.
"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."
And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."
The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :) Link - ( New Window )
This is referring to the legend of Azor Ahai and Nisa Nisa, which has been referrenced a number of times over the past 7 seasons. The last time supposedly the whitewalkers attacked, Azor Ahai beat them by forging a special sword that became magic when he plunged into his wife's (Nisa Nisa) heart as a sacrifice. If you subscibe to the this then maybe Jon Snow plunges it into the heart of Melisndre? Or Dany?
The theories of how Arya was going to fool/escape the Waif/Terminator were all wrong because they needed to quickly move on. The theories of how Doran would plot and scheme his way into the war for the Iron Throne were all wrong because they needed to quickly move on.
Dany was overwhelmed by a dozen Khals in Vaes Dothrak and escaped by fire ex machina. Jon was overwhelmed by the Boltons at the Battle of the Bastards and was saved by Knights of the Vale ex machina. Jon was overwhelmed by the Army of the Dead and was saved by dragons ex machina.
Littlefinger’s corpse doing a Scooby Doo Let’s-See-Who-You-Really-Are doesn’t do much in service to wrapping up the wars to come, and they don’t have time for it.
Please don’t take this as a “Dave and Dan are hacks! George is the greatest living writer (who may or may not have written a single sentence in 8 years)! I’m not that guy. There are practical realities here for a huge show/story that is late in its third act. Don’t overthink it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
As for Littlefinger being obsessed with Sansa, could all be an act. It was an act for Lysa, we’ve already seen it. I believe his love for anyone died with Cat.
As for Littlefinger being obsessed with Sansa, could all be an act. It was an act for Lysa, we’ve already seen it. I believe his love for anyone died with Cat.
Introduce him to lady stoneheart.
:)
Just to be accurate 30%=95% of bbi
Still waiting for the last book anyone? Him and his kindred spirit Rothfuss write like they work for the government. Seriously. We got a
Man to the moon faster.
Doubt the Littlefinger thing happens but making his character so short sighted in the end was one of a few things that really soured me on the show. I get that they ran out of source but its weird they couldn't get a decent writer to write a satisfying last act for the character.
eventually maybe but I think end of 2020 is the earliest we’d see book 6.
you mean immediately after? I don't think so. It would be a nice surprise though.
Sometime in the next 20 years after, possibly. It's only been 8 years since we had a GOT book.
Last I heard Martin when asked about a release date said "it will done when it's done"
Now I think it would be a weird move because he’s a boring character with a very low approval rating. But that’s my out there guess.
I am rooting for Cersei to win somehow but I doubt that happens.
The main thing I really hope for is that they deal with the white walkers/army of the dead somehow by mid season. And then the last few episodes are just the people dealing with each other. My rationale is that the white walkers are not interesting, not developed as characters in any way, and basically feel very gimmicky. They have been a necessary plot vehicle as this sort of looming crisis or doom that overshadows all of the comparatively petty human squabbles, but I don’t think the dead army will work as the focal point of the show or the final boss or whatever.
Now I think it would be a weird move because he’s a boring character with a very low approval rating. But that’s my out there guess.
I am rooting for Cersei to win somehow but I doubt that happens.
The main thing I really hope for is that they deal with the white walkers/army of the dead somehow by mid season. And then the last few episodes are just the people dealing with each other. My rationale is that the white walkers are not interesting, not developed as characters in any way, and basically feel very gimmicky. They have been a necessary plot vehicle as this sort of looming crisis or doom that overshadows all of the comparatively petty human squabbles, but I don’t think the dead army will work as the focal point of the show or the final boss or whatever.
I doubt Stannis is alive. Brianne would not let him live. She made a vow to kill Stannis for killing Remly and as we all know she is as honorable as anyone in the show. If she made a vow she is going to keep it. Also Stephen Dillane who played Stannis did not like the show or his performance as Stannis.
I think you will get your wish with the white walkers. I think that they will be the first threat that will be dealt with obviously. I have a feeling Cersei is going to march her army north in an attempt to catch Jon Snow and Dany off guard. They will still be recovering from their grueling battle with the white walkers and then have to immediately battle Cersei without little time to prepare.
Frankly even if Bran is the Night King I think that is not enough, Bran has had minimal screen time for such a central role and his story is not interesting.
The biggest wild cards to me seem to clearly be the origins of the night king/relationship with the starks and what happens with the golden company. I'm sure there will be other twists but those are the 2 major plotlines that have been setup for a while. Both are kind of hanging over everything the same way the knights of the vale were prior to the battle of the bastards. And yeah, I'm expecting a lot of main characters to die including at least 1 of Jon/Dany. Probably Jon because he's almost gotten himself killed in every season.
Didn’t little finger give coins to someone from the Hall of Faces? I would bet he paid someone to die for him.
That's really par for the course. How many great series ended up with great endings. Hard to achieve.
But very excited nonetheless.
Tonight is 54 minutes, episode 2 is 58 minutes, and then the last 4 are all about 80 minutes.
BY the way, the assumption is that Jon is the Prince who was promised. But, what if it is not him? There are a number of possibilities that it could be.
BY the way, the assumption is that Jon is the Prince who was promised. But, what if it is not him? There are a number of possibilities that it could be.
I think the Prince is Jamie
Frankly even if Bran is the Night King I think that is not enough, Bran has had minimal screen time for such a central role and his story is not interesting.
Same view, don’t really care about the Night King. I’d like that to be done early and not saved for the finale.
BY the way, the assumption is that Jon is the Prince who was promised. But, what if it is not him? There are a number of possibilities that it could be.
Keep thinking back to when Tyrion was on his way to see Dany, and the priest started looking at him when she was talking about a savior.
Tormund: I've always had blue eyes
Good stuff, LOL
I thought it was good. Certainly not a feel good episode but to be expected. No way to bring all those parties together smoothly.
Really hope Sansa takes an axe to the face but I'm getting a feeling she might be the last one standing.
What no "A Whole New World" during the dragon riding sequence?
I hope it was just "character setting" or whatever. It was boring, the only decent scene was fat Tarley telling Jon he's the King
This episode was always going to be about reunions most of the characters haven’t seen each other in years. Lady Mormont is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters
Saw an interview with the weapons maker for the show before the episode. He was asked what his favorite weapon to make was, and he said it was for this season, but he couldn’t say what it was.
Which tells me we will see Lightbringer.
BTW, shouldn't Danerys have been more upset about her dragon being undead now?!!? Oh well!!!
Saw an interview with the weapons maker for the show before the episode. He was asked what his favorite weapon to make was, and he said it was for this season, but he couldn’t say what it was.
Which tells me we will see Lightbringer.
My guess is more prep and your an asshole type stuff for the first 1/2 hour to 3/4 through then it takes off running set up the big battle in episode 3
Yeah I get that personally I would of liked to of seen John/Dany find out about bran and Arya and what they became I think that could of been a little funny
Great point. That's what I'm kind of getting at... this was one HUGE reunion and I wanted to see more reaction from the characters seeing one another... not Danerys and John Snow tooling around on dragons.
Yeah, that was very camp and cheesy. Very un-GoTlike.
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Get into it with Jorah.
Great point. That's what I'm kind of getting at... this was one HUGE reunion and I wanted to see more reaction from the characters seeing one another... not Danerys and John Snow tooling around on dragons.
The only thing is, they are all racing towards their deaths(most likely) so why waste so much emotion when you might have a day or 2 left?
Agree. It felt like a The Bachlorette show. I was waiting for a Rose ceremony at the end
Yeah, if the point is to show he’s a Targaryen that scene could have been one minute. Unless the dragons are killing something it’s a waste of CGI.
I would have also liked to have had more interaction with Sansa and Daenyris.
I assume this was only so that when we see Jon riding a dragon into battle we aren't asking how the hell he knew how to do that, when he's never done it before.
Saw an interview with the weapons maker for the show before the episode. He was asked what his favorite weapon to make was, and he said it was for this season, but he couldn’t say what it was.
Which tells me we will see Lightbringer.
Could be wrong but I dont think theyre going to spend much time with the prophecy. Im guessing its whatever Arya asked Gendry to make.
I would have also liked to have had more interaction with Sansa and Daenyris.
Jon/arya was such a letdown. This was the reunion I waited forever for and it was meh. I was more emotional during the sansa/jon reunion. Didnt help that youtube showed a 5 second ad this morning of the beginning of the scene and I knew that was it after arya let him go in the 1st scene
Missed this post you could tell it bothered her maybe she could of got a little more emotional but at that time maybe as queen she shouldn’t in front of those she just met.
Besides the cheesy cgi dragon ride the part I think should of had more was it shouldn’t of been so easy to just walk in and rescue Yara
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Was the cheesy ass dragon riding scene. The rest was perfect setup for the rest of the season. Get all the reunions we need out of the way in 1 episode
I assume this was only so that when we see Jon riding a dragon into battle we aren't asking how the hell he knew how to do that, when he's never done it before.
Great point. I was too bust thinking the scene was too long to think of it in that context.
Yeah, I was just going to ask how dany was so easy for him to get close and ride one. Does she think it’s her hold on the dragons? I’m surprised she doesn’t question it a little.
My wife always gives me shit when I pay more attention when Melisandre disrobes (sigh, she was absent from tonight's episode).
I think because the range of territory has narrowed to Winterfell and King's Landing.
My wife always gives me shit when I pay more attention when Melisandre disrobes (sigh, she was absent from tonight's episode).
Dany for me. She looks so much better in the silver hair and costume. In real like I don't care for her looks much
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Seems so much more intricate than the past
I think because the range of territory has narrowed to Winterfell and King's Landing.
True. They had to elongate it. But even the graphics seem better and clearer
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do any of you guys get in trouble with the wife/girlfriend when certain actresses appear on screen?
My wife always gives me shit when I pay more attention when Melisandre disrobes (sigh, she was absent from tonight's episode).
Dany for me. She looks so much better in the silver hair and costume. In real like I don't care for her looks much
Missandei > Dany.
And that German chick who played Shay. Hellz yeah.
My wife always gives me shit when I pay more attention when Melisandre disrobes (sigh, she was absent from tonight's episode).
Im with you on Melisandre followed by missandei
We already know that the dragons are cool with Jon. We didn't need to see it again. They really shouldn't be wasting precious time at this point.
And I agree with people who are critical about the reunions and Dany finding out one of her dragons is with the army of the dead now. The reactions were all low on authentic emotion.
I don't understand why we still need "setup episodes" with only 6 episodes left and the army of the dead already through the Wall.
I didn't hate the episode, but I was hoping for a great one. And it wasn't.
Good article about the new opening credits https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/adambvary/game-of-thrones-opening-credits-new
We already know that the dragons are cool with Jon. We didn't need to see it again. They really shouldn't be wasting precious time at this point.
And I agree with people who are critical about the reunions and Dany finding out one of her dragons is with the army of the dead now. The reactions were all low on authentic emotion.
I don't understand why we still need "setup episodes" with only 6 episodes left and the army of the dead already through the Wall.
I didn't hate the episode, but I was hoping for a great one. And it wasn't.
Well said.
We already know that the dragons are cool with Jon. We didn't need to see it again. They really shouldn't be wasting precious time at this point.
And I agree with people who are critical about the reunions and Dany finding out one of her dragons is with the army of the dead now. The reactions were all low on authentic emotion.
I don't understand why we still need "setup episodes" with only 6 episodes left and the army of the dead already through the Wall.
I didn't hate the episode, but I was hoping for a great one. And it wasn't.
Good summary all around
I agree with the poster above, the brief encounter between Tormund and Edd was great, probably the most authentic interaction of the episode.
I gave up expecting too much beginning with last season, so I’m just enjoying the ride. It’s really hard for show runners to write big shows like this to a satisfying conclusion - very few have achieved it. Breaking Bad is probably the best of recent memory.
Even moreso considering they started with about 4 seasons of great source material and then were left to write it to the finish with out GRRM’s outline to guide them
Im sure things will speed up shortly and then we can hear all about the "pacing".
Which we knew already.
Btw, I did a Thrones death pool for $20. Considering no one important died, if you didn't, you should get in! I picked like 70% of characters dying lol.
I would prefer the show go on a couple of more seasons, but as long as we know when it's going to end (relatively soon..6.5 hours or material), it seems like they did a very solid job setting this up.
I sense it will all feel a lot less rushed and now be able to really go in high gear for the rest of the remaining episodes. Sure, I wanted a lot more to be revealed tonight and am now detoxing hard after waiting so long, but the rest are going to be epic, especially the big Winterfell battle in Ep. 3 in 2 weeks.
BTW, shouldn't Danerys have been more upset about her dragon being undead now?!!? Oh well!!!
Yeah, nothing a little lighthearted dragon race followed by sex can't fix I guess.
This times 1000. There is no time for a recap episode. Get down to it. Very disappointing.
And uhhh, Jon and The Queen would have frozen to death and or suffocated on those dragons. So dumb.
Next week appears to have more setup and teasing of action before the real battle starts in episode 3.
Arya with her shape-shifting is gonna be huge during the rest of the series.
After Dany told (can't recall his name) that she killed his father and brother - how much of his reaction to the Jon's right to teh throne was driven by Jon's right or being pissed about his father's & brother's death. She had a very strange reaction afetr she told him - almost like...I don't know, can't put my finger on it.
And as usual, Sersei is one bad bitch!
On a side note, the chances of Littlefinger coming back got slimmer. I thought for a split second it could have been him on the horseback instead of Jaime but that's what I get for getting my hopes up.
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This felt like a wasted one
This times 1000. There is no time for a recap episode. Get down to it. Very disappointing.
And uhhh, Jon and The Queen would have frozen to death and or suffocated on those dragons. So dumb.
It should also be super-windy. There shouldn't be a light breeze blowing through their hair while they're soaring on a dragon.
I liked the Aria/Jon scene. I was looking forward to it and they didn't go over the top mushy. For me most of the reunion scenes went well.
The show needed to address the issues that arose in the last few seasons. Jon is a leader without ambition and motivated only by his love of his people. The Northerners are not going to love Dany. They see her as a foreign queen with an invading army. There will be big time tension when everyone knows that Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron throne.
Thought there were some really funny lines last night: When Cyburn tells Bron that one of the girls that had just clinbed off of him is so beautiful but she'll be dead of the pox in a few months. Bron with a voice of concern for his own health: Which one?
Cersai: I wanted those elephants
Bran, in the scene before Jamie arrives, is asked by Sam what are you doing out here (in the cold). I'm waiting for an old friend
On a side note, the chances of Littlefinger coming back got slimmer. I thought for a split second it could have been him on the horseback instead of Jaime but that's what I get for getting my hopes up.
IMO Littlefinger is dead. If we see him again it will be as a manifestation of one the faces in Arya's collection.
Not very queen-like, was it?
Last night felt like filler when they could have really used the episode more to (1) introduce characters to each other who had never met, and (2) re-introduce characters to each other who hadn't seen each in years.
As mentioned above, it's almost as if the TV producers were a bit lost in what direction to take the characters without the guidance of a book.
Also looks like we’ll have to wait till the end of the show for the long anticipated Clegane Bowl
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He's a Targaryen...
Which we knew already.
But Danys doesn't. She should be more shocked than she is. Although, she is a very wooden actress anyway.
Im sure things will speed up shortly and then we can hear all about the "pacing".
It's funny. I feel like posters have been saying that the first episode sucked or was boring or whatever and you making this exact same post for the past many seasons. Not a criticism of either party but it feels like it's a routine pattern.
On a side note, I’ve read of some people predicting Arya dies in the battle of Winterfell. I don’t buy their logic....someone has to go.... I would be devastated if that happened because not only is Arya the most exciting character for me, but I believe she is also the one most capable to shock us and giving us a wow moment to talk about the day after the episode runs.
The dragon riding scene was unnecessary. I know in the books it is clear that only Targaryans can ride them, but has that ever been a thing in the show? The show has much less background on the Targaryans. And would Jon even need to ride one into battle? Wouldn't he be better on the ground commanding troops? The dragons seem to know what they are doing without someone telling them. "That's the enemy, fry them!"
I have a feeling Jon will not tell Dany what he knows for a while and they will drag this out, and she will be forced to show whether she will yield to his claim to the throne, or whether he will yield it to her anyway. I don't think they battle for it.
Not very queen-like, was it?
Last night felt like filler when they could have really used the episode more to (1) introduce characters to each other who had never met, and (2) re-introduce characters to each other who hadn't seen each in years.
As mentioned above, it's almost as if the TV producers were a bit lost in what direction to take the characters without the guidance of a book.
They have been without book guidance for two seasons before this one.
In the books, Jon Snow being murdered by the Nights Watch and Olly at Castle Black is the last thing to happen.
the dialogue is just poorly written. like eric said, how does dany not address everyone with jon? why does jon not defend dany more to his people other than just saying she's a powerful ally? really no talk about her uniting the dothraki and freeing the people of mereen and slavers bay and saving his life? he's in love with her and that's all he has to say?
they tried too hard to pay homage to earlier episodes. the kid climbing like bran did in the opening season. the springs with dany and jon and some of the same line used with jon and ygritte. i wish they would have just made the dialogue better in other scenes instead of paying attention to things like that.
the dragon riding scene was ok with me but was just a little cheesy. although i did enjoy the drogon part of him staring at jon as cheesy as that was.
all of the reunions fell flat for me except jon and sam and tyrion and sansa and i was ok with arya and gendry too. but the others just left a lot to be desired.
LOL... as someone who grew up in upstate New York, I regularly bitch to my wife that anyone who lives in such a climate would be wearing a hat, especially the Wildlings and Night's Watch.
The episode run times were released like weeks ago. The first 2 episodes wont hit the 60 minute mark, but every episode after that is 80+ minutes run time.
Someone mentioned the limitations of Emilia Clarke (Daenerys) who really does not seem capable of displaying much depth in her character. The did a poor job of setting the place for future episodes outside of Bran and Jamie staring at each other.
Not really.
I think the dialog was very specifically done the way it was, and I think Jon/Dany not addressing the North folk was also intentional.
They're setting up a bunch of things:
1. There is a divide in the North (Sansa sees an opening?)
2. Cersei (to no one's surprise) is planning to betray the combined army
3. The Iron islands is where they may retreat to
4. Samwell Tarly may not be so pro-Dany any longer (what does that actually mean? who knows, but I thought for someone who hated his father as much as he did, he wouldn't have cared so much about his murder, but I guess not)
5. Jon knows he's the true heir, what will that mean? It will probably fracture his relationship completely with the north, and with Sansa, and very likely with Dany - and then the unsullied, the dothraki, and everyone else.
a lot of this episode was meant to simply plant the seeds for the final 5. Slow at times, unrealistic (did they really need the dragon ride?) I think part of that was to just show Jon was a Targaryan but that was a few wasted minutes.
How awkward was it for Jaime to see Bran?
I'm starting to think that Jaime might wind up the "hero".
This is a distinct possibility, and despite the episode-ending staredown from Bran, I think Bran will vouch for Jamie when he faces Dany/Jon/Sansa in the next episode - he knows he has a key role to play going forward.
I read that as simply a reminder that Bran of course would know by now that Cersei is not actually sending the Lannister army.
Apparently Tyrion is the only one who believes that
A few other things:
So tired of all the childish bickering. Glover won't come to Winterfell because Jon submitted to Dany? So he'd rather have a childish shitfit and die on his own than take the small chance of survival he has by banding together with everyone else at Winterfell? Or did he support Jon as King in the North despite thinking he was lying about the army of dead or a madman? Just makes no sense. The whole scene of the northerners whining at Jon just made me want to scream at them. What part of Jon's whole "None of this matters" spiel did they not agree with or understand?
Likewise tired of the whining at Dany for incinerating the Tarlys. She gave them a simple choice: follow me or burn. They chose the fire. I understand the comparisons and worry from the Westerosi about her being another Aerys "Mad King" Targaryen, but her just offering the choice of life or death is something he never would have done that speaks to her character. Brutal, yes...but fair. Get over it.
The Wights/Night King continue to be problematic. Was the burned out castle Eastwatch-by-the-Sea? Last Hearth? Poor storytelling. It makes more sense for it to be Last Hearth what with Little Lord Umber impaled on the wall, but I don't recall a scene or line of dialogue indicating that Dolorous Edd or the Night's Watch had actual confirmation of the Army of the Dead breaching the wall, and Eastwatch-by-the-Sea before the dragon attack was the last place we saw the A-Team. We as viewers know, of course, but you would think the Watch check to make sure before just abandoning the wall.
What's with the Littlefinger being alive theory? Seems highly implausible. I didn't think his death was unearned or cheap. I would have loved to see more of the setup (supposedly they shot more scenes to set up the sisters and Bran working together, but liked having the surprise of Littlefinger's trial and execution more), but Bran basically knows everything that happened ever. Kind of hard to outsmart someone who can tell you literally anything anyone ever did. Sansa knows his abilities are true as he told her things he never could have known about her wedding night, so it's not a leap for him to say "BTW Littlefinger betrayed our father, schemed to kill Jon Arryn, framed Tyrion for the assassination attempt on my life and did all of the other shit you already know about and more". Sansa's witnessed him scheming and plotting so she knows he's capable of everything, just needed the details from Bran. Littlefinger's hubris and belief that he was always the smartest person in any room finally led to him trying to play with the wrong person.
Not sure if Bran's powers work that way, but that was my read.
This is the character I've got a problem with. All of a sudden, he has been incredibly dumb the past two+ seasons. Constantly outmaneuvered first by the Masters only to be saved by Dany, then by Jaime and Cersei, and finally by Cersei again.
Littlefinger made sense to me because he's so secure in his scheming that he couldn't fathom or straight up didn't believe in Bran's ability to see everything. He tried to use him and ended up paying the price for it. It seemed in character.
Tyrion though...goes from master tactician and cunning mind to "Oh, I'm sure my sister wouldn't betray us! She saw an ice zombie!".
I’m very interested in the Bronn storyline with him being tasked to kill BOTH of Cersei’s brothers. How will that translate? Obviously Bronn won’t do it, but I think this is the catalyst to make Jamie finally kill Cersei. That’s how she dies IMO.
The Bran and Jamie reunion will be fun as I’m sure Bran won’t care that Jamie tried to murder him. He doesn’t connect as “Bran” anymore.
Little Finger is dead AF. I don’t know why people think differently.
I’m curious as to why Danny isn’t a little confused as to why her dragons love Jon.
Very curious as to how Danny takes the news of Jon’s heritage. She won’t abdicate her “throne” . That could easily create a divide with Jon and Danny.
We now have a spot to for retreat.
That symbol at with the body parts will have a greater meaning. I didn’t realize that it was Lord Umber at first.
The coming attractions for next week seem like we have have the battle at Winterfell. We will see.
I was fine with the dragon riding scene. I mean, we are watching a show about dragons and zombies and we are critizing whether they should freeze at altitude or not? I mean... c’mon.
Not very queen-like, was it?
Last night felt like filler when they could have really used the episode more to (1) introduce characters to each other who had never met, and (2) re-introduce characters to each other who hadn't seen each in years.
As mentioned above, it's almost as if the TV producers were a bit lost in what direction to take the characters without the guidance of a book.
This, and of course the omission of Dany never taking her clothes off.
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people are questioning the reality of the hair not blowing in the wind or freezing to death of two riders on the backs of dragons, in a land where people are preparing to fight an army of reanimated dead people?
LOL... as someone who grew up in upstate New York, I regularly bitch to my wife that anyone who lives in such a climate would be wearing a hat, especially the Wildlings and Night's Watch.
Well they've definitely taken some liberties I think in an effort to move the story along I guess.
I remember season 1 when they showed the scenes at the wall or later Jon with Ygritte and the wildings, you could feel the cold through the special effects, maybe not so much now.
Weird storyline in an otherwise blah episode
I’m very interested in the Bronn storyline with him being tasked to kill BOTH of Cersei’s brothers. How will that translate? Obviously Bronn won’t do it, but I think this is the catalyst to make Jamie finally kill Cersei. That’s how she dies IMO.
The Bran and Jamie reunion will be fun as I’m sure Bran won’t care that Jamie tried to murder him. He doesn’t connect as “Bran” anymore.
Little Finger is dead AF. I don’t know why people think differently.
I’m curious as to why Danny isn’t a little confused as to why her dragons love Jon.
Very curious as to how Danny takes the news of Jon’s heritage. She won’t abdicate her “throne” . That could easily create a divide with Jon and Danny.
We now have a spot to for retreat.
That symbol at with the body parts will have a greater meaning. I didn’t realize that it was Lord Umber at first.
The coming attractions for next week seem like we have have the battle at Winterfell. We will see.
I was fine with the dragon riding scene. I mean, we are watching a show about dragons and zombies and we are critizing whether they should freeze at altitude or not? I mean... c’mon.
The Dany/Jon thing could be moot if the scheming for nuptials by the advising committee pans out. Although, while I think Dany would be up for it since it was common for Targaryons, Jon might be too Stark to go for some incest.
Weird storyline in an otherwise blah episode
Unless it was a giant scheme last season, she is pregnant. I took the post-coitus gleam in her with Euron to mean she can now claim the baby is his, not Jaime...who’s dead to her after bolting Kings Landing.
Yeah that was a pretty forced effort to recreate the Jon and Ygritte in the cave vibe...show them all happy and in love and fantasizing about escaping together, right before shit blows up between them.
Maybe a tap dancing scene where the dragons get top hats and canes, sort of like Wintefell's version of Singing in the Rain.
Obviously there are nitpicks to everything but just like the star wars “shitting on my childhood” thread, there will be people who think only GRRM can write this stuff and just isnt the same. Its almost at Walking Dead territory with “fans” i only watch it to shit on it
Love the series. Have re-watched the whole thing three times now and there is hardly an episode I don't enjoy (even the 5th season which a lot of people knock). But c'mon, until the last 15 minutes, that was a pretty lame effort last night. Especially when you consider that was 1/6 of the final season.
I'm glad they quickly introduced Jamie in the north, one would think next week's episode allows them to form their battle plan for winterfell with the understanding that the Lannister army is not on its' way, not that Bran couldn't have told them that anyway. I'd guess we see Jon take charge in the next few episodes through the battle of winterfell and become the central "hero" that people want to follow and put him in the begrudging position of once again possibly being the chosen leader of the people and Dany possibly having to take a backseat. Everybody except Jon still wants their titles and doesn't trust anyone else. He's now got the best claim and it would be unlike him to not just blurt out the truth, though maybe he takes a page from Ned's book and keeps his secret to himself longer until after the battle? He kept to himself that he was brought back from the dead and he's only said 1000x that he doesn't care about being a king. But if he's the only one who can unite everyone after the battle?
Also 1 other factor in their relationship as the season goes on, did/will Jon get her pregnant? They did some foreshadowing last season. I would have predicted at least 1 of them dies in the battle of winterfell but now im not as sure.
great point about the dead dragon.
i felt the same way, when the 3 eyed Raven announces that they have a zombie dragon I really thought we'd see more wide spread panic. Everyone seemed to take that news like it was no big deal
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the fan across all fronts.
i felt the same way, when the 3 eyed Raven announces that they have a zombie dragon I really thought we'd see more wide spread panic. Everyone seemed to take that news like it was no big deal
Yeah it was almost like they all expected the wall to fall. I imagine when Tormund/Ed get to winterfell things will get urgent fast but all of the leaders seemed far more jovial than they did leading up to all their prior major battles.
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the fan across all fronts.
i felt the same way, when the 3 eyed Raven announces that they have a zombie dragon I really thought we'd see more wide spread panic. Everyone seemed to take that news like it was no big deal
Almost like they think they still have more time and they kind of pass brans warning off like he’s a kook
they showed it very quickly, but I assumed it was some kind of projectile harpoon, so maybe she could shoot down the reanimated Viserion
Yeah, I think she has her sights on the Night King and his dragon. Gendry even pointed out that she already has a sword and a Valyrian steel dagger and asks her why she would need something else.
Could have already happened. Bran has warged into Ravens at least once on screen, and probably many times off of it. It would be awesome if it were the dragon, but can you even warg into a whight?
Bran keeps flying as ravens to the Night King to see where he is.
As for the dragon and Jon riding scene I think it was to show they are falling even more for each other... If they don't have that scene then it is all politics and drama for them. They needed time together to show they are falling. Also if you don't have that scene they don't magically fill it with another scene... That episode is even shorter so suck it up.
I thought it would be better for Sam to tell Dany about Jon. Let her think about it before letting Jon know. Now how awkward is it going to be for Jon. Oh hey before we have sex ... ummm here is the thing. I am actually your nephew and the rightful king... phew now that is out of the way lets bone.
Also, did anyone else notice a symmetrical connections/parallels to the season 1 opening scene and season 8 opening scene.
Season 1 bran was running around Winterfell and climbing on shit and then, as we know pushed out the window by Jaime.
Season 8, the young boy was running I believe near Winterfell and climbing on shit. I initially thought he was the boy killed as a message from the Nights King, but I think he was different.
The story begins in Winterfell and the end begins in Winterfell.
As silly as the Jon dragon riding scene was, it may be a sign of things to come: Its his dragon now. In the books dragons choose riders and once that happens, they are pretty much a team. He has become her equal whether she likes it or not.
And I am still holding out hope that the series ends with an Oldsmobile falling from the sky, landing in the middle of the great final battle with the army of the dead, Ash Williams right behind it, immediately lopping off the Night Kings head with chainsaw and then screaming NOT AGAIN in anguish. Fade to black.
The big issue (IMO) with that scene is that no one but Targaryen's are supposed to be able to fly and yet Dany doesn't even bat an eye about him flying.
I am beginning to think that Jon does betray Dany. That or they have a fight and begin to show a divide growing after he tells her the truth about his lineage. She will begin to doubt his true intentions after she realizes that he found out the fate of Sam's brother and father.
Also, did anyone else notice a symmetrical connections/parallels to the season 1 opening scene and season 8 opening scene.
Season 1 bran was running around Winterfell and climbing on shit and then, as we know pushed out the window by Jaime.
Season 8, the young boy was running I believe near Winterfell and climbing on shit. I initially thought he was the boy killed as a message from the Nights King, but I think he was different.
The story begins in Winterfell and the end begins in Winterfell.
Incest isn't just for the Lannisters.
Incest isn't just for the Lannisters.
Yup...
So if Jon leads the dragons into battle where is Dany, did Jon betray her or maybe she is killed? The interesting thing abt Dany's staying power is her army, the unsullied and the Dothraki's. They both have pledged an alliance to Dany, if and when she dies they have no reason for them to continue with the war (they are on foreign land for which they have no ties to).
Also when Bran was staring at Tyrion I wondered if he did so because he knew that Tyrion was also a Targaryen. I am hoping that is it and not because Tyrion is planning on betraying Dany and Jon.
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It looks like a spear with a blade that shoots out. Is that designed to take out a dragon?
they showed it very quickly, but I assumed it was some kind of projectile harpoon, so maybe she could shoot down the reanimated Viserion
Thanks PJ I didn't even think of that.
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look blind even when he's not warging?
Also, did anyone else notice a symmetrical connections/parallels to the season 1 opening scene and season 8 opening scene.
Season 1 bran was running around Winterfell and climbing on shit and then, as we know pushed out the window by Jaime.
Season 8, the young boy was running I believe near Winterfell and climbing on shit. I initially thought he was the boy killed as a message from the Nights King, but I think he was different.
The story begins in Winterfell and the end begins in Winterfell.
wow, I knew it seemed like the parallels/connections were there as the episode unfolded, but I didn't realize this many.
Nymeria had a "reunion" with Arya but then chose to stay with her new wolf pack.
Also when Bran was staring at Tyrion I wondered if he did so because he knew that Tyrion was also a Targaryen. I am hoping that is it and not because Tyrion is planning on betraying Dany and Jon.
One thing I can predict with 100% certainty is that even if Bronn succeeds, we will not see a scene with Cersei and Bronn b/c Lena Heady and Jerome Flynn had a nasty breakup and have stipulations in their contracts about doing scenes together.
Link - ( New Window )
Incest isn't just for the Lannisters.
Umm I think the fact you just found out that Ned wasn't your father and that you finally know who your mother is, who by the way you assumed was some tavern whore, not to mention who his actual father is, oh and you aren't actually a bastard as you have been led to believe your whole life, etc is a little more important than oh shit plus my lover is my aunt.
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In comment 14387077 Jay on the Island said:
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It looks like a spear with a blade that shoots out. Is that designed to take out a dragon?
they showed it very quickly, but I assumed it was some kind of projectile harpoon, so maybe she could shoot down the reanimated Viserion
Thanks PJ I didn't even think of that.
Or she could just throw a spear like a javelin, since that worked so well for the Night King.
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was it just me, or shouldn't he have said "oh no, I boinked my aunt..ewww!"
Incest isn't just for the Lannisters.
Umm I think the fact you just found out that Ned wasn't your father and that you finally know who your mother is, who by the way you assumed was some tavern whore, not to mention who his actual father is, oh and you aren't actually a bastard as you have been led to believe your whole life, etc is a little more important than oh shit plus my lover is my aunt.
Still think finding out you boinked your aunt is a BFD - and is the logical conclusion to that whole string of thoughts.
Can't they be in the same scene using CGI if it is needed for the storyline?
Ghost was at Winterfell the end of season 7 - battle of the bastards.
I assume he's still there and I suspect we will see him (in the trailer it looks like Ghost is in one of the battles).
Not sure what happened to Nymeria when she chose the wolf pack over Arya and Winterfell.
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In comment 14387171 RobCarpenter said:
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was it just me, or shouldn't he have said "oh no, I boinked my aunt..ewww!"
Incest isn't just for the Lannisters.
Umm I think the fact you just found out that Ned wasn't your father and that you finally know who your mother is, who by the way you assumed was some tavern whore, not to mention who his actual father is, oh and you aren't actually a bastard as you have been led to believe your whole life, etc is a little more important than oh shit plus my lover is my aunt.
Still think finding out you boinked your aunt is a BFD - and is the logical conclusion to that whole string of thoughts.
He doesn't think of her that way. It isn't like they grew up together in the sense that he is having sex with his aunt. As apposed to the fact that he has been treated bad his whole life for being a bastard and not just any bastard but bastard of Ned Stark. He always wanted to be a Stark like his father. Now hey you do have Ned's blood running through you but it is Neds sister because your mother wasn't some whore but Lyanna freaking Stark. That you aren't a bastard. Oh and that you are rightful king lets not forget that. I don't think having sex with his aunt would be in the top five things he would be thinking about, but that is just me.
Actually I did read that they shot some false scenes, just to throw off the paparazzi and others who were spying. Not sure if Nymeria is one of them, but this supposedly did happen
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and her pack being in a battle scene. The rumor is based on Arya reuniting with Nymeria in the woods. Why would they waste time shooting that scene if it had no impact in the story line?
Actually I did read that they shot some false scenes, just to throw off the paparazzi and others who were spying. Not sure if Nymeria is one of them, but this supposedly did happen
Also they do shoot scenes that get cut out later for a number of reasons (length, flow of story, etc)
I thought that was because people keep asking what happened to Nymeria so they had that season to show that being a bet wasn't Nymeria just like being a lady wasn't Arya. The shows pay attention to what fans think much like with the onion knight meets up with Gendry again he says I figured you were still rowing... that was tribute to the fans who all joked about that.
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and her pack being in a battle scene. The rumor is based on Arya reuniting with Nymeria in the woods. Why would they waste time shooting that scene if it had no impact in the story line?
Actually I did read that they shot some false scenes, just to throw off the paparazzi and others who were spying. Not sure if Nymeria is one of them, but this supposedly did happen
I think he meant the actual scene of Arya/Nymeria meeting in the woods when Nymeria then goes the other way with her pack.
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In comment 14387220 Jay on the Island said:
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and her pack being in a battle scene. The rumor is based on Arya reuniting with Nymeria in the woods. Why would they waste time shooting that scene if it had no impact in the story line?
Actually I did read that they shot some false scenes, just to throw off the paparazzi and others who were spying. Not sure if Nymeria is one of them, but this supposedly did happen
I think he meant the actual scene of Arya/Nymeria meeting in the woods when Nymeria then goes the other way with her pack.
Oh ok, thanks. I misunderstood
I think that was before he came back and realized who Cersei truly is. Remember when he came back She killed everyone including their uncle, his son committed suicide because of what she did, and she took the Iron throne all while he was gone. He was finally seeing who she was including when she went back on sending her army north. He was like who are you. We agreed to fight. Then she threatens to kill him with the Mountain.
As for the dragon and Jon riding scene I think it was to show they are falling even more for each other... If they don't have that scene then it is all politics and drama for them. They needed time together to show they are falling. Also if you don't have that scene they don't magically fill it with another scene... That episode is even shorter so suck it up.
I thought it would be better for Sam to tell Dany about Jon. Let her think about it before letting Jon know. Now how awkward is it going to be for Jon. Oh hey before we have sex ... ummm here is the thing. I am actually your nephew and the rightful king... phew now that is out of the way lets bone.
Except that the CGI for the dragons is extremely expensive and they have a limited budget. Not only was it cheesy, the money could have been spent better elsewhere. Maybe increasing the runtime another 20 minutes.
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I think Brienne will also vouch for Jaime along with Tyrion. Still I don't fully trust him. Remember back to when he was talking to the captured Stark who was married at the red wedding. I forgot his name but Jaime tells him that he would do anything to get back to Cersei. He even mentions throwing his son and every other son off the wall if it meant he could get back to her. Once he has honored his oath to fighting for the living I could see him then attempting to take out Dany in order to save Cersei. That is unless Bronn shows up, spares him and tells him how Cersei wants Jaime dead.
I think that was before he came back and realized who Cersei truly is. Remember when he came back She killed everyone including their uncle, his son committed suicide because of what she did, and she took the Iron throne all while he was gone. He was finally seeing who she was including when she went back on sending her army north. He was like who are you. We agreed to fight. Then she threatens to kill him with the Mountain.
Assuming Bronn doesn't attempt to kill Jaime I think the final straw will be his confession that Cersei paid him a kings ransom to kill Jaime. He is kingslayer but then he will be known as the queenslayer.
And Theon being Azor Ahai is more crazy than Littlefinger being alive.
The prince who was promised aka Azor Ahai (if you believe that theory) is said shall be a descendant of Aerys II and Rhaella.
There are 3 WTF moments - we've only seen two of them. The first was Shireen, the second was Hodor.
Link - ( New Window )
He's always been a good bowman. Sansa and Jon have both made their peace with him, Bran isn't Bran anymore so doubtful he holds a grudge. Not sure how much else Theon has left to do except fight (and likely die) to reclaim a little more honor.
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Was it the best episode? No and that is the trend with all the later seasons. Episode one is getting everyone in position for the rest of the season. There was a ton of stuff going on. Dany and her army are in the north now. Jon aka Aegon Targaryen 6th of his name reunited with Arya, Bran, Sam. Arya reunited with the Hound and Gendry along with Jon of course. Sam with Mormont, Sansa with Tyrien, Bran with Jaime, etc etc etc.
As for the dragon and Jon riding scene I think it was to show they are falling even more for each other... If they don't have that scene then it is all politics and drama for them. They needed time together to show they are falling. Also if you don't have that scene they don't magically fill it with another scene... That episode is even shorter so suck it up.
I thought it would be better for Sam to tell Dany about Jon. Let her think about it before letting Jon know. Now how awkward is it going to be for Jon. Oh hey before we have sex ... ummm here is the thing. I am actually your nephew and the rightful king... phew now that is out of the way lets bone.
Except that the CGI for the dragons is extremely expensive and they have a limited budget. Not only was it cheesy, the money could have been spent better elsewhere. Maybe increasing the runtime another 20 minutes.
Right what did it accomplish? One that him and Dany got closer and it showed them falling for each other. Two that he could ride a dragon. Three when they go to battle and if he has to ride one it won't be his first time.
I mean you leave this scene out and think about it. Dany and Jon being super close is less, him riding a dragon is gone, experience riding a dragon is gone, how the dragons react to him is gone, etc.
People think they would have filled it with 20 more mins of scenes are just wrong. They still have like 7 hours left. That is like an Avengers trilogy! It is a ton of time.
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gains some level of redemption though. He's already checked one box by rescuing his sister, now if he can make some sort of amends with the Starks he can die peacefully.
He's always been a good bowman. Sansa and Jon have both made their peace with him, Bran isn't Bran anymore so doubtful he holds a grudge. Not sure how much else Theon has left to do except fight (and likely die) to reclaim a little more honor.
Agree, that's all I was saying.
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and while there are a lot of things that track the legends of the prince who was promised it's not going to be a neat and tidy. It would not shock me at all however if similar to "Hold the door" there is a wtf moment where we realize George Martin had put some big breadcrumbs in front of us the whole time in terms of some other application of what that legend actually meant.
There are 3 WTF moments - we've only seen two of them. The first was Shireen, the second was Hodor. Link - ( New Window )
Yeah the 3rd one is in all likelihood whatever the end game is at the intersection of the Night King's demise, the Stark lineage, and the Targaryen lineage. Whether that involves Bran or Jon or Dany or Tyrion or whoever, who knows. Unlike the first 2 wtf moments the last one seems certain to involve the leads as opposed to side characters.
As far as your point about Jon and the dragons. He's a Targaryan, it is in his blood to know how to ride them. Or at least you could frame it that way. There's nothing to say it just isn't instinct.
As far as your point about Jon and the dragons. He's a Targaryan, it is in his blood to know how to ride them. Or at least you could frame it that way. There's nothing to say it just isn't instinct.
Instinct? Come on man. I compare it to a comic book movie was to say you can have a ton happen in the next 6 episodes because of all the hours left. That it was equivalent to say an Avengers trilogy. What would have made you feel better... The original Star wars trilogy, Lord of the rings, 50 shades of grey... The example was the time left has a lot of hours to go through everything you want.
I also find it funny you talk about emotion depth and development but want to cut a season that is about emotion between Jon, Dany, and her babies.
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I disagree. What makes the show great is the emotional depth, character development and storyline. Comparing it to some comic book movie doesn't do it justice. This is a big reason why TV is better than movies now. The ability to tell these stories in long format. I feel like they easily could cut that scene and added some emotional depth to all these reunions. I had no problem that it was a set up episode it just seemed clumsily done.
As far as your point about Jon and the dragons. He's a Targaryan, it is in his blood to know how to ride them. Or at least you could frame it that way. There's nothing to say it just isn't instinct.
Instinct? Come on man. I compare it to a comic book movie was to say you can have a ton happen in the next 6 episodes because of all the hours left. That it was equivalent to say an Avengers trilogy. What would have made you feel better... The original Star wars trilogy, Lord of the rings, 50 shades of grey... The example was the time left has a lot of hours to go through everything you want.
I also find it funny you talk about emotion depth and development but want to cut a season that is about emotion between Jon, Dany, and her babies.
sorry cut a scene not a season.
He wasn't emotional over his father. If you rewatch the scene, he didn't get VERY emotional until he heard his brother was killed by Dany. His brother was more honorable in Sam's eyes than his father ever was. That's what ticked Sam off
Weird storyline in an otherwise blah episode
I'm not sure why people (not just you, figgy - I mean in general) are hung up on whether she drinks the wine or not as a signal of her being pregnant. This is basically a medieval culture where incest is pretty much accepted, people can be brought back to life, super powers abound, dragons exist, etc., but the dangers of drinking while pregnant are a real concern for these characters?
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She was going to take a sip of wine after Euron banged her out, but you never actually see her drink.
Weird storyline in an otherwise blah episode
I'm not sure why people (not just you, figgy - I mean in general) are hung up on whether she drinks the wine or not as a signal of her being pregnant. This is basically a medieval culture where incest is pretty much accepted, people can be brought back to life, super powers abound, dragons exist, etc., but the dangers of drinking while pregnant are a real concern for these characters?
I believe there was a scene late last season in which she explicitly made a point of not imbibing because of her condition. The ambiguity as to whether she actually drank last night might signal that we are supposed to be left wondering - also, her touching her womb, Euron referencing "putting a prince in her" or whatever he said. I think it is definitely intended to be an open question.
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She was going to take a sip of wine after Euron banged her out, but you never actually see her drink.
Weird storyline in an otherwise blah episode
I'm not sure why people (not just you, figgy - I mean in general) are hung up on whether she drinks the wine or not as a signal of her being pregnant. This is basically a medieval culture where incest is pretty much accepted, people can be brought back to life, super powers abound, dragons exist, etc., but the dangers of drinking while pregnant are a real concern for these characters?
It's because she didn't drink wine in her private meeting with Tyrion during the season 7 finale because she was pregnant.
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In comment 14386946 figgy2989 said:
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She was going to take a sip of wine after Euron banged her out, but you never actually see her drink.
Weird storyline in an otherwise blah episode
I'm not sure why people (not just you, figgy - I mean in general) are hung up on whether she drinks the wine or not as a signal of her being pregnant. This is basically a medieval culture where incest is pretty much accepted, people can be brought back to life, super powers abound, dragons exist, etc., but the dangers of drinking while pregnant are a real concern for these characters?
It's because she didn't drink wine in her private meeting with Tyrion during the season 7 finale because she was pregnant.
Ah, ok. Well then I suppose my question is more for the writers and why that's even something they're using as a plot vehicle. People were drinking while pregnant in this country as recently as 40-50 years ago, but this would have been a concern in the GoT realm?
I mean, I get it, but it just seems like a lazy shortcut in the writing.
Well played, Bill.
Saw a picture of her at a setting where she was all dressed up in a formal outfit but she had Easter egg purple hair.
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In comment 14386946 figgy2989 said:
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She was going to take a sip of wine after Euron banged her out, but you never actually see her drink.
Weird storyline in an otherwise blah episode
I'm not sure why people (not just you, figgy - I mean in general) are hung up on whether she drinks the wine or not as a signal of her being pregnant. This is basically a medieval culture where incest is pretty much accepted, people can be brought back to life, super powers abound, dragons exist, etc., but the dangers of drinking while pregnant are a real concern for these characters?
It's because she didn't drink wine in her private meeting with Tyrion during the season 7 finale because she was pregnant.
Maybe that why maybe it isn’t that’s what you inferred from it but she never said I’m not drinking because I’m pregnant
I agree it was extremely cringe worthy, but it did get jon on a dragon prior to the battle, which probably practically just had to happen. It also practically had to happen prior to jon's discovery of who he really is. So when you add those points together, it basically had to happen in this episode somehow and there are only so many ways that could have transpired.
Dragon-envy.
The surprising thing to me is that Daenerys hasn’t been tipped off by her “children’s” affinity for Jon - or Tyrion, for that matter. She was raised on Valyrian legend. If there’s a person alive - outside the Citadel - who would understand the significance of Jon mounting a dragon, it’s Daenerys. Maybe she figures any friend of hers is unlikely to be barbecued (hence the joke about having enjoyed his acquaintance.)
I’m curious how she will react to the news about her nephew. It actually shouldn’t be a huge surprise. She might even have an inkling about Rhaegar/Elia/Lyanna.
Have you ever tried stopping an elephant?🤪
My guess it’s sort similar to the giants for the wildlings big and powerful hard to stop
They might also serve as firehoses once Drogo and Rhaegal do their thing on the Golden Company and the Lannister lines. On the other hand, they would also be big targets for a couple of hungry, airborne dragons. I think Cersei is banking on the Night King and Viserion to solve that problem for her.
Maybe she just thinks elephants are cool.
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want the elephants so badly?
You might regret asking. Assuming her interest is grounded in classical military tactics, elephants would probably be used to break those tight, disciplined, disciples Unsullied formations Missandei finds so erotic. I doubt they would be as useful against Dothraki, Wildlings, or even certain Northern houses, whose style of engagement is more freeform.
They might also serve as firehoses once Drogo and Rhaegal do their thing on the Golden Company and the Lannister lines. On the other hand, they would also be big targets for a couple of hungry, airborne dragons. I think Cersei is banking on the Night King and Viserion to solve that problem for her.
Maybe she just thinks elephants are cool.
Maybe she really likes the term hung like an elephant
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want the elephants so badly?
Dragon-envy.
I don’t know if this was a joke, But of all the explanations below, I think that this one is probably the most correct.
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Jon Snow flying on them during the battle ahead. Can't have his first time flying it be during the actual battle. It wasn't just some "dating scene".
The big issue (IMO) with that scene is that no one but Targaryen's are supposed to be able to fly and yet Dany doesn't even bat an eye about him flying.
I think the queen knows he's her relative, why else would she be so nonplussed about him riding a dragon when only her bloodline can ride them? If she didn't she would have been scared shitless of him getting on one
I think that aspect was done to illustrate how little she believes regarding the White Walkers and the Dragons. The two Dragons make Elephants worthless and her bemoaning the fact she didn't any shows how foolish she is regarding the coming battles
I agree its likely dragon envy, but last season her 'hand of the queen' (Qyburn) invented that large bow and arrow dragon weapon that was pulled by horses. Maybe he's created something new that requires elephants to move it.
And abt Qyburn, did anyone notice how interested he was in seeing the white walker from season 7? He did bring the mountain back to life and some ppl speculate has some type of wight. I'm wondering if Cersei and Qyburn have some surprises.
After the episode, it hit me he likely meant Jamie. But a buddy suggested he actually means the Night King
What do y’all think?
After the episode, it hit me he likely meant Jamie. But a buddy suggested he actually means the Night King
What do y’all think?
Its Jamie.
Yes totally... Going against the Night King and the army of the dead lets just go by instinct and assume the Dragon will let you ride it... nothing could go wrong with that plan. Why bother training how to use swords and shoot bows in the show when you got instinct.
After the episode, it hit me he likely meant Jamie. But a buddy suggested he actually means the Night King
What do y’all think?
definitely thought he meant Jaime. I like his story arc better than anyone on the show. I think he's got the most compelling ending too (potentially).
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Sam asks Bran what he’s up to sitting in the courtyard, and Bran says “waiting, for an old friend”.
After the episode, it hit me he likely meant Jamie. But a buddy suggested he actually means the Night King
What do y’all think?
Its Jamie.
Jamie for sure
Especially compared to the wooden actress my wife calls 'eyebrows' after seeing her in "Me Before You" (Emilia Clarke).
I will totally give you, that love ride won't make him some kind of expert and now they will make it seem like he is. At least he has ridden one though. If he goes into battle with never have people including me would be like no way!
so it's not a problem with Headley per se, who is fantastic in the role, it's the only casting miss, and it's really nitpicking.
But...she plays the role so perfectly I can get past it, but that was almost literally the only casting decision I question in a story with tons of characters that the author went in to tremendous detail describing.
the other minor casting issue for me was Brienne. She was supposed to be grotesquely hideous. Like an animal. She's definitely tall and I guess manly, but she's not as hideous as I imagined. Probably hard to just find an ugly actress without makeup/disguise.
The final casting issue I have (besides character switches) and it's more plot than casting is Tyrion at the battle of Blackwater lost his nose with I think an axe. While I didn't expect in the show he'd have no nose, I was hoping he'd be worse scarred or disfigured than he is.
it's remarkable the casting job they did overall, spot on nailed almost everyone.
so it's not a problem with Headley per se, who is fantastic in the role, it's the only casting miss, and it's really nitpicking.
But...she plays the role so perfectly I can get past it, but that was almost literally the only casting decision I question in a story with tons of characters that the author went in to tremendous detail describing.
the other minor casting issue for me was Brienne. She was supposed to be grotesquely hideous. Like an animal. She's definitely tall and I guess manly, but she's not as hideous as I imagined. Probably hard to just find an ugly actress without makeup/disguise.
The final casting issue I have (besides character switches) and it's more plot than casting is Tyrion at the battle of Blackwater lost his nose with I think an axe. While I didn't expect in the show he'd have no nose, I was hoping he'd be worse scarred or disfigured than he is.
it's remarkable the casting job they did overall, spot on nailed almost everyone.
I've been saying that about Cersei the whole time. Lena Headey is a fantastic actress and she has been perfect in the role, but from a physical standpoint and the description of the character in the books, she just doesn't fit. I'm not going to go so far as to call her unattractive, but she probably doesn't even crack the top 10 most attractive actresses on GoT alone.
Tyrion is described as hideous in the books, with mismatched eyes and grotesque facial features. But not in the show. So Dinklage doesn't match that.
Daenerys was a teenager in the first book. Clarke wasn't, because Daenerys on the show wasn't a teenager.
And so on and so on.
When there is a show or movie based on a book, people have often times previously read the book or books..
Based on reading a book, some people (many or most?) create a mental image of what the character looks like based on the author's description of the characters.
The show Game of Thrones casting team nailed almost every one of the mental images created by book readers IMO.
With the few exceptions I noted (for me).
that was it.
whatever you posted, thank you for that, no clue what purpose it served other than to be a dick for some reason. I guess. Really not sure what you were going for with that post.
But yes, she's quite wooden and not very rangy. She has a great personality away from the show, though.
That's not a criticism of Headey's abilty as an actress, but she is not in the same league in terms of looks as the other two women I mentioned.
But yes, she's quite wooden and not very rangy. She has a great personality away from the show, though.
Plus she looks good naked, which is the major requirement for the role of Dany.
+1. She looked much hotter in 300. Not sure she's a top 10, but she's pretty hot
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Lena Headey is for sure in the top-10. I think you're just too used to seeing her with her short hair "Joan of Arc" haircut to remember that she was a hottie with long hair. She's gorgeous with her natural black hair.
+1. She looked much hotter in 300. Not sure she's a top 10, but she's pretty hot
The problem is that Cersei is a hot blonde in the books. And as a blonde Headey is just pretty, but not gorgeous.
I'm ok with Tyrion not having his nose chopped off, Brienne not being a beast, the Targs not having purple eyes, etc.; would probably be too distracting. I actually get distracted by Viserys' and Rhaegar's silver hair. It looks fine on Dany but weird on them.
Her teeth, i can't unsee them. Not really a fan of hers. Whores like Ros are hotter.
Probably just because they are so formidable in battle, until they get spooked and run amok.
While Headey may not rise high enough on the hot scale for some of you guys, I think she's played the bad "guy" role really well - especially last season, the way she mocked/lectured Jamie. The short hair wig has really been a poor choice though
I'd agree Emilia Clarke is on the weaker end of a very strong cast from an acting perspective, but she's handled it reasonably well. And she's got the cute-hot thing down cold.
As silly as the dragon riding date was, she was giving Jon some super hot looks during that sequence
It's also crazy that she's only a year older than Maisie Williams
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Lena Headey is for sure in the top-10. I think you're just too used to seeing her with her short hair "Joan of Arc" haircut to remember that she was a hottie with long hair. She's gorgeous with her natural black hair.
Her teeth, i can't unsee them. Not really a fan of hers. Whores like Ros are hotter.
Shay was a real hottie. That Miranda chick that was jealous of Sansa when she was with Ramsey was cute too.
Link - ( New Window )
- North loses battle of Winterfell
- they retreat south to prepare for final battle
- Jon meets Melisandre and she convinces him of her prophecies
- Jon puts his sword through Dany to forge Lightbringer
That would be bonkers. Doubt that's what it is for many reasons, but that would be nuts.
- North loses battle of Winterfell
- they retreat south to prepare for final battle
- Jon meets Melisandre and she convinces him of her prophecies
- Jon puts his sword through Dany to forge Lightbringer
That would be bonkers. Doubt that's what it is for many reasons, but that would be nuts.
I think Sansa aligning with Sersei to take down Jon and Dany would be huge.
When there is a show or movie based on a book, people have often times previously read the book or books..
Based on reading a book, some people (many or most?) create a mental image of what the character looks like based on the author's description of the characters.
The show Game of Thrones casting team nailed almost every one of the mental images created by book readers IMO.
With the few exceptions I noted (for me).
that was it.
whatever you posted, thank you for that, no clue what purpose it served other than to be a dick for some reason. I guess. Really not sure what you were going for with that post.
It was a direct response to the point that Headey doesn't match the book description of Cersei. I have no idea why you would get so hypersensitive over that. Really bizarre.
Didn't Robert say to Ned in Season One that he had a son and Ned has a daughter so their houses could/should be one? They're clearly planting the seeds for a Gendry/Arya union.
doesn't mean it won't happen, but after the shit Cersei did to Sansa, what would be her motivation to ally with her against what she believes is her brother, but is actually her first cousin.
That type of scheming can't happen in 5 remaining episodes IMO.
doesn't mean it won't happen, but after the shit Cersei did to Sansa, what would be her motivation to ally with her against what she believes is her brother, but is actually her first cousin.
That type of scheming can't happen in 5 remaining episodes IMO.
I agree. I can totally see Sansa being the one who pulls some big betrayal, but not to align with Cersei. Cersei still half believes that Sansa is responsible for Joffrey's death, and Sansa is smart enough to know that Cersei will never forgive her and is not to be trusted.
Cahoots with Littlefinger!!!!!
I always felt like Sansa was an afterthought character, one who serves a purpose but is not "in the game" for the iron throne, but they really want you to put her in the game (in your mind at least).
and no one has endured as much as her. She's a survivor.
Let's not forget she was married to Joffrey, Tyrion, and Ramsey. she had her pet slaughtered, watched her father beheaded, learned from her abusive husband that her mother and brother were murdered in a cold blooded betrayal, her two younger brothers were burned alive (so she thought) - and then when she learned they were not burned alive she was forced to watch one murdered, and her sister was unaccounted for. and probably more.
I always felt like Sansa was an afterthought character, one who serves a purpose but is not "in the game" for the iron throne, but they really want you to put her in the game (in your mind at least).
and no one has endured as much as her. She's a survivor.
Let's not forget she was married to Joffrey, Tyrion, and Ramsey. she had her pet slaughtered, watched her father beheaded, learned from her abusive husband that her mother and brother were murdered in a cold blooded betrayal, her two younger brothers were burned alive (so she thought) - and then when she learned they were not burned alive she was forced to watch one murdered, and her sister was unaccounted for. and probably more.
Sansa is the character that has come the furthest for me in terms of how she's grown personally and how much I've come to respect and appreciate her from the somewhat annoying teenager she was early on. A fantastic story arc. She was the one who truly saved The North
It's also crazy that she's only a year older than Maisie Williams
The two of them have been best friends since season 1. It's just that Sophie Turner got taller and Maisie Williams never did.
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see Sansa betraying Jon and Dany and splintering the north, they beat that over our heads Sunday night.
I always felt like Sansa was an afterthought character, one who serves a purpose but is not "in the game" for the iron throne, but they really want you to put her in the game (in your mind at least).
and no one has endured as much as her. She's a survivor.
Let's not forget she was married to Joffrey, Tyrion, and Ramsey. she had her pet slaughtered, watched her father beheaded, learned from her abusive husband that her mother and brother were murdered in a cold blooded betrayal, her two younger brothers were burned alive (so she thought) - and then when she learned they were not burned alive she was forced to watch one murdered, and her sister was unaccounted for. and probably more.
Sansa is the character that has come the furthest for me in terms of how she's grown personally and how much I've come to respect and appreciate her from the somewhat annoying teenager she was early on. A fantastic story arc. She was the one who truly saved The North
I go back and forth between Sansa and Jaime wrt story arc.
He's gone from hated villain to set up to be hero.
- North loses battle of Winterfell
- they retreat south to prepare for final battle
- Jon meets Melisandre and she convinces him of her prophecies
- Jon puts his sword through Dany to forge Lightbringer
That would be bonkers. Doubt that's what it is for many reasons, but that would be nuts.
What if Dany gets killed by the Night King and brought back as a wight, and Jon has to do what you say to fulfill the prophecy?
I have a suspicion at least one main character will die and come back as part of the army of the dead
Hunger Games with a shaved head.
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Hunger Games with a shaved head.
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Hunger Games with a shaved head.
As Anne Boleyn in the Tudors
It's funny because the way she acts and even the way she looks screams villain, but she never became one as Marg Tyrell.
Can’t stand her either. Back of the list for me. Give me Ygritte over her.
Hahaha ok I laughed!
so it's not a problem with Headley per se, who is fantastic in the role, it's the only casting miss, and it's really nitpicking.
But...she plays the role so perfectly I can get past it, but that was almost literally the only casting decision I question in a story with tons of characters that the author went in to tremendous detail describing.
the other minor casting issue for me was Brienne. She was supposed to be grotesquely hideous. Like an animal. She's definitely tall and I guess manly, but she's not as hideous as I imagined. Probably hard to just find an ugly actress without makeup/disguise.
The final casting issue I have (besides character switches) and it's more plot than casting is Tyrion at the battle of Blackwater lost his nose with I think an axe. While I didn't expect in the show he'd have no nose, I was hoping he'd be worse scarred or disfigured than he is.
it's remarkable the casting job they did overall, spot on nailed almost everyone.
pj, I know it was only for one scene but the one casting decision that bothered me the most was Rhaegar Targaryen. Rhaegar was supposed to be the most handsome man in Westeros but he just looked like a weird older version of Viserys.
Holy shit I nearly spit my coffee all over the computer screen.
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is in the books she is the most beautiful women in Westeros.
so it's not a problem with Headley per se, who is fantastic in the role, it's the only casting miss, and it's really nitpicking.
But...she plays the role so perfectly I can get past it, but that was almost literally the only casting decision I question in a story with tons of characters that the author went in to tremendous detail describing.
the other minor casting issue for me was Brienne. She was supposed to be grotesquely hideous. Like an animal. She's definitely tall and I guess manly, but she's not as hideous as I imagined. Probably hard to just find an ugly actress without makeup/disguise.
The final casting issue I have (besides character switches) and it's more plot than casting is Tyrion at the battle of Blackwater lost his nose with I think an axe. While I didn't expect in the show he'd have no nose, I was hoping he'd be worse scarred or disfigured than he is.
it's remarkable the casting job they did overall, spot on nailed almost everyone.
pj, I know it was only for one scene but the one casting decision that bothered me the most was Rhaegar Targaryen. Rhaegar was supposed to be the most handsome man in Westeros but he just looked like a weird older version of Viserys.
Yes! This one bothered me too. I'm fascinated by Rhaegar and his motivations and found myself disappointed they'd seemingly just reused the Viserys wig with a plain looking guy. If they have more flashbacks with him I hope they recast
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is in the books she is the most beautiful women in Westeros.
so it's not a problem with Headley per se, who is fantastic in the role, it's the only casting miss, and it's really nitpicking.
But...she plays the role so perfectly I can get past it, but that was almost literally the only casting decision I question in a story with tons of characters that the author went in to tremendous detail describing.
the other minor casting issue for me was Brienne. She was supposed to be grotesquely hideous. Like an animal. She's definitely tall and I guess manly, but she's not as hideous as I imagined. Probably hard to just find an ugly actress without makeup/disguise.
The final casting issue I have (besides character switches) and it's more plot than casting is Tyrion at the battle of Blackwater lost his nose with I think an axe. While I didn't expect in the show he'd have no nose, I was hoping he'd be worse scarred or disfigured than he is.
it's remarkable the casting job they did overall, spot on nailed almost everyone.
pj, I know it was only for one scene but the one casting decision that bothered me the most was Rhaegar Targaryen. Rhaegar was supposed to be the most handsome man in Westeros but he just looked like a weird older version of Viserys.
Yeah, I noticed this too, definitely agree, but like the others being nitpicking I felt this was too and more so, since it was one scene
Haven't read it, but again, the theory of Azor Ahai if you believe Azhor Ahai = the prince who was to be promised can only be Jon Snow or Daenerys
even if you subscribe to the theory that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryen's too many other boxes are not checked.
Holy crap, I Just realized she's in Captain America too.
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is in the books she is the most beautiful women in Westeros.
so it's not a problem with Headley per se, who is fantastic in the role, it's the only casting miss, and it's really nitpicking.
But...she plays the role so perfectly I can get past it, but that was almost literally the only casting decision I question in a story with tons of characters that the author went in to tremendous detail describing.
the other minor casting issue for me was Brienne. She was supposed to be grotesquely hideous. Like an animal. She's definitely tall and I guess manly, but she's not as hideous as I imagined. Probably hard to just find an ugly actress without makeup/disguise.
The final casting issue I have (besides character switches) and it's more plot than casting is Tyrion at the battle of Blackwater lost his nose with I think an axe. While I didn't expect in the show he'd have no nose, I was hoping he'd be worse scarred or disfigured than he is.
it's remarkable the casting job they did overall, spot on nailed almost everyone.
I've been saying that about Cersei the whole time. Lena Headey is a fantastic actress and she has been perfect in the role, but from a physical standpoint and the description of the character in the books, she just doesn't fit. I'm not going to go so far as to call her unattractive, but she probably doesn't even crack the top 10 most attractive actresses on GoT alone.
This is interesting. What they SHOULD look like - ( New Window )