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NFT: Game of Thrones last season starts tonight (maybe spoilers)

pjcas18 : 4/14/2019 10:21 am
can't wait, but I must admit it is a little bittersweet.

The trailers all look awesome, I've avoided redditt so I don't get any actual leaked plots.

thought I'd start a discussion thread, in case people want to discuss the final season.

Also, on a side note, this is like the old school HBO Sunday night lineups with GOT, Barry, than Veep.
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bittersweet for sure  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2019 10:35 am : link
this could be the last season of the top rated TV show airing at a certain time on a certain night for a long time. GOT first aired at the height of Breaking Bad and Mad Men, not sure there's anything else on deck right now - and if there is it's likely streaming.
I can't wait  
Jay on the Island : 4/14/2019 10:37 am : link
I am worried that many fans will not be happy with the way the series ends. This really blows that there are only 6 episodes left.
RE: I can't wait  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14385785 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I am worried that many fans will not be happy with the way the series ends. This really blows that there are only 6 episodes left.


I'm reasonably confident the ending will be done well for 2 reasons:
1. I'd imagine it's 1 of the things that Martin has basically done entirely on his own (at least structurally). Those moments ("the door") have tended to be the "holy shit" episodes, along with the crazy battle episodes.
2. the directors of most episodes this season are the guys who have directed all of the great episodes - 5 of the 6 final episodes are from Sapochnik and Nutter whose credits include the Red Wedding, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, and Winds of Winter (and then the final ep is directed by Benioff and Weiss).

So while I expect the story to end in a bittersweet way, it should be done really well and the battles will probably be epic.
Looks like...  
giantsfaninphilly : 4/14/2019 10:57 am : link
They filmed multiple endings, so we all get to stay in the dark until the last episode.

I think a lot of people are gonna die.
I just watched a pretty interesting video offering a few theories on  
Dave in Buffalo : 4/14/2019 11:01 am : link
what will ultimately transpire? Here's a great quote from Red Priest Thoros of Myr.

"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."

And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."



The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :)
Link - ( New Window )
Ooops. Left out that Milasandre was speaking to Jon  
Dave in Buffalo : 4/14/2019 11:05 am : link
The video theorized that the prophecy's Prince That Was Promised, could be Jon who has to make a great sacrifice.
Are we allowed to discuss theories  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2019 11:08 am : link
on here?
I don’t expect they will go down the path  
Mike from Ohio : 4/14/2019 11:10 am : link
of Lightbringer and Azor Ahai just because that has no real grounding in the show. The books may (eventually) go there, but the show is almost a universe of its own now so trying to wedge that in during a six show arc I think would be a mistake.

I am hoping the ending is not simply who ends up on the Iron Throne. Dani’s arc has been that of someone who wants to break the wheel. Jon is not interested in being King. The ending should be a much larger transformation of that world than simply who wins.
RE: Are we allowed to discuss theories  
Dave in Buffalo : 4/14/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14385819 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
on here?


Why Not? If they offer some insight and better understanding it makes for better immersion into the final episodes.
I’m all in on Littlefinger not being dead  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2019 11:18 am : link
the start of me getting annoyed with the show is how they suddenly just changed his character. From the decrease in screen time to being less cunning and ultimately outsmarted fairly easily it’s just something I never bought. If it turns out that it wasn’t really him during this noticeable timeframe, I’d be a happy camper. I doubt this is the case, I think they are giving people what they want with Dany, Jon and the dragons, but I’m holding out hope.

Very much looking forward to tonight.
Little Finger  
Big Blue Hokie : 4/14/2019 11:20 am : link
One theory is he isn’t dead. Would be a interesting twist
I’m watching but  
RicFlair : 4/14/2019 11:24 am : link
I’m still pissed at how the destroyed the Stannis character.
RE: I just watched a pretty interesting video offering a few theories on  
PatersonPlank : 4/14/2019 11:26 am : link
In comment 14385812 Dave in Buffalo said:
Quote:
what will ultimately transpire? Here's a great quote from Red Priest Thoros of Myr.

"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."

And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."



The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :) Link - ( New Window )


This is referring to the legend of Azor Ahai and Nisa Nisa, which has been referrenced a number of times over the past 7 seasons. The last time supposedly the whitewalkers attacked, Azor Ahai beat them by forging a special sword that became magic when he plunged into his wife's (Nisa Nisa) heart as a sacrifice. If you subscibe to the this then maybe Jon Snow plunges it into the heart of Melisndre? Or Dany?
Little Finger is dead  
beatrixkiddo : 4/14/2019 11:28 am : link
He has always had an unhealthy obsession with the Starks and Caitlyn Tully, I think his infatuation with Sansa is perfect that it lead to his undoing. He always thought himself to be a grand conspirator in the game of thrones, just like Tywin, I think the show and story has shown it doesn’t matter how great a player you are in the game that you will lose at some point.

I do like where the main protagonists arcs are heading, to the poster above Dany seems to want to break the cycle, not sure if that is her sitting in the Iron Throne or completely dismantling the structure of the 7 Kingdoms. Jon has no interest in ruling either. Makes for an interesting ending when you figure those two are the greatest likelihood to be leading/uniting Westeros in the end.

Can’t wait to watch the final season! Wish I rewatched more episodes, but overall glad there will be some closure to this story something Martin doesn’t really care to do I the books.
I certainly don’t see Dany being a sacrifice  
Mike from Ohio : 4/14/2019 11:49 am : link
Her whole story arc is that she has been underestimated. To have her fate be to simply be a means to an end for someone else to defeat the Night King would be weak. She may end up dying, but she needs to go out in a blaze of glory for a great good, not being run through by Jon so he can have more power. Wasn’t sacrificing her for power exactly what her brother did to her?

I don’t know how it will end, but I am hoping from something more than Jon and Dany win, the white walkers are defeated, and everyone lives happily ever after. Thankfully I don’t think they will do that.
Spoiler  
ZGiants98 : 4/14/2019 11:52 am : link
Most people will love this season, 30% of fan base will pick it to shreds and analyze every last detail and complain about "pacing", and Uconn will hate it.

:)
RE: RE: I just watched a pretty interesting video offering a few theories on  
Dave in Buffalo : 4/14/2019 11:54 am : link
In comment 14385846 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 14385812 Dave in Buffalo said:


Quote:


what will ultimately transpire? Here's a great quote from Red Priest Thoros of Myr.

Would be consistent with betraying family.

"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."

And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."



The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :) Link - ( New Window )



This is referring to the legend of Azor Ahai and Nisa Nisa, which has been referrenced a number of times over the past 7 seasons. The last time supposedly the whitewalkers attacked, Azor Ahai beat them by forging a special sword that became magic when he plunged into his wife's (Nisa Nisa) heart as a sacrifice. If you subscibe to the this then maybe Jon Snow plunges it into the heart of Melisndre? Or Dany?
I think they've really done a good job  
ZGiants98 : 4/14/2019 11:55 am : link
Of keeping a lot of things in play. Only 6 episodes left and the board is really still wide open IMO. So many different characters could die, or live. Would anybody even surprised if Jon or Daeneris died before the season is out? I probably wouldnt.
RE: RE: I just watched a pretty interesting video offering a few theories on  
Dave in Buffalo : 4/14/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14385846 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 14385812 Dave in Buffalo said:


Quote:


what will ultimately transpire? Here's a great quote from Red Priest Thoros of Myr.

This would be consistent with the betraying of family part of the prophecy.

"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. But great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is Clear on."

And from Millesandre. Paraphrasing, "You will betray your family and all that you hold dear."



The video theorized that the reference to a "great sword" was meant metaphorically but I'm thinking it was literal. I'm thinking perhaps Thoros was using the noun, not the adjective, and that this great-sword (two handed sword) was actually Ned Stark's Ice that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Widow's Wail disappeared for awhile but appears to have popped up in Jaime's possession (I googled) in a few seasons. Could be that Danny (wife's heart?) will use a Drogon to reforge Lightbringer from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. And Jon will have a cool new toy to start kickin ass with :) Link - ( New Window )



This is referring to the legend of Azor Ahai and Nisa Nisa, which has been referrenced a number of times over the past 7 seasons. The last time supposedly the whitewalkers attacked, Azor Ahai beat them by forging a special sword that became magic when he plunged into his wife's (Nisa Nisa) heart as a sacrifice. If you subscibe to the this then maybe Jon Snow plunges it into the heart of Melisndre? Or Dany?
For some reason both attempts at reply didn't include my reply. Wth???  
Dave in Buffalo : 4/14/2019 11:58 am : link
Plunging the sword into Dany's heart would be consistent with the part of the prophecy of Jon betraying his family.
I read  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2019 12:30 pm : link
the theories on Littlefinger being alive, and I do think it's possible, for the reasons the theories mention (I'm happy to post them for those interested) but there are A LOT of holes and inconsistencies if he is in fact alive. the theories I think have been suitably debunked.
Yeah I just don't think there is enough  
ZGiants98 : 4/14/2019 12:36 pm : link
time to bring hm back and create some side story about it. Hoping he remains dead.
Littlefinger is dead because they don't have time for the alternative  
iMatt : 4/14/2019 1:05 pm : link
The show has to resolve the war in the North and the war for the Iron Throne, and they have ~7 hours to do it in. Plot problems are resolved with finding the shortest distance between two points – and if that’s too hard, then fix it with deus ex machina. They don’t have time for clever twists and intrigue, and it’s been like that for a while now.

The theories of how Arya was going to fool/escape the Waif/Terminator were all wrong because they needed to quickly move on. The theories of how Doran would plot and scheme his way into the war for the Iron Throne were all wrong because they needed to quickly move on.

Dany was overwhelmed by a dozen Khals in Vaes Dothrak and escaped by fire ex machina. Jon was overwhelmed by the Boltons at the Battle of the Bastards and was saved by Knights of the Vale ex machina. Jon was overwhelmed by the Army of the Dead and was saved by dragons ex machina.

Littlefinger’s corpse doing a Scooby Doo Let’s-See-Who-You-Really-Are doesn’t do much in service to wrapping up the wars to come, and they don’t have time for it.

Please don’t take this as a “Dave and Dan are hacks! George is the greatest living writer (who may or may not have written a single sentence in 8 years)! I’m not that guy. There are practical realities here for a huge show/story that is late in its third act. Don’t overthink it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Littlefinger is dead  
hog-on-ice : 4/14/2019 1:13 pm : link
But did they burn his body?
Stay off of Youtube  
KDubbs : 4/14/2019 1:14 pm : link
One of their 5 second ads showed a scene I been waiting forever for. It better hav been a later scene
Z is right  
Jay on the Island : 4/14/2019 1:16 pm : link
Littlefinger has to be dead because they can't fit another side story into the final 6 episodes. There is a total of 7 hours of run time this season. They need to have two major wars in that short time frame. Each episode is likely to be packed with action.
If Littlefinger isn’t dead  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2019 1:44 pm : link
it wouldn’t have to be a side story, it could be the main event. Predictions happen every year and every season many are wrong. It’s entirely possible to fit him into the big picture, but again, I don’t think they do because the stock has already been invested in Cersei, Jon, Dany, etc.

As for Littlefinger being obsessed with Sansa, could all be an act. It was an act for Lysa, we’ve already seen it. I believe his love for anyone died with Cat.
RE: If Littlefinger isn’t dead  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14385998 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
it wouldn’t have to be a side story, it could be the main event. Predictions happen every year and every season many are wrong. It’s entirely possible to fit him into the big picture, but again, I don’t think they do because the stock has already been invested in Cersei, Jon, Dany, etc.

As for Littlefinger being obsessed with Sansa, could all be an act. It was an act for Lysa, we’ve already seen it. I believe his love for anyone died with Cat.


Introduce him to lady stoneheart.
For all we know a big player like Carsei, Jon or Dany  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2019 1:52 pm : link
die by episode 2 or 3 which opens up many possibilities for the back half of the season. Littlefinger has Bravvosi blood, he’s familiar with the faveless men and being a “master of coin” can be a nod to both the coins used by the faceless men and the Iron Bank. There’s enough roots there to build upon (I still think it’s unlikely).
RE: Spoiler  
eli4life : 4/14/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14385868 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Most people will love this season, 30% of fan base will pick it to shreds and analyze every last detail and complain about "pacing", and Uconn will hate it.

:)


Just to be accurate 30%=95% of bbi
Still don’t know why GoT is above criticism for some people  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2019 2:01 pm : link
but it’s all good. I don’t hate the show, I simply have problems with many of their choices in the last few seasons, one of which I just discussed. You are welcome to disagree, but threads shouldn’t just be for people who only have good things to say. It is ok if I think some plots are stupid (I’m hardly the only one).
Many of the issues the show has  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/14/2019 2:21 pm : link
IMO stem from the source material and Martin going down every rabbit hole his mind could create. On top of that they constantly added stuff for pure shock effect. Sansa’s Rape for sure. But they’ve been able to make half the world wait for this so gotta give HBO a lot of credit. Martin must be the worst to work with.

Still waiting for the last book anyone? Him and his kindred spirit Rothfuss write like they work for the government. Seriously. We got a
Man to the moon faster.
Any chance the last two books are released  
widmerseyebrow : 4/14/2019 2:58 pm : link
After the last episode airs?
RE: Still don’t know why GoT is above criticism for some people  
widmerseyebrow : 4/14/2019 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14386025 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but it’s all good. I don’t hate the show, I simply have problems with many of their choices in the last few seasons, one of which I just discussed. You are welcome to disagree, but threads shouldn’t just be for people who only have good things to say. It is ok if I think some plots are stupid (I’m hardly the only one).


Doubt the Littlefinger thing happens but making his character so short sighted in the end was one of a few things that really soured me on the show. I get that they ran out of source but its weird they couldn't get a decent writer to write a satisfying last act for the character.
RE: Any chance the last two books are released  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2019 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14386120 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
After the last episode airs?


eventually maybe but I think end of 2020 is the earliest we’d see book 6.
RE: Any chance the last two books are released  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14386120 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
After the last episode airs?


you mean immediately after? I don't think so. It would be a nice surprise though.

Sometime in the next 20 years after, possibly. It's only been 8 years since we had a GOT book.

Last I heard Martin when asked about a release date said "it will done when it's done"
My wild card prediction this season is a Stannis return  
Oscar : 4/14/2019 3:16 pm : link
Unless you see someone killed on the show (and sometimes even when you do) there is a chance they are coming back. His links to the Red Lady and the fact that we didn’t see him actually killed, and that it was Brienne who supposedly did the job, it just doesn’t check out for me.

Now I think it would be a weird move because he’s a boring character with a very low approval rating. But that’s my out there guess.

I am rooting for Cersei to win somehow but I doubt that happens.


The main thing I really hope for is that they deal with the white walkers/army of the dead somehow by mid season. And then the last few episodes are just the people dealing with each other. My rationale is that the white walkers are not interesting, not developed as characters in any way, and basically feel very gimmicky. They have been a necessary plot vehicle as this sort of looming crisis or doom that overshadows all of the comparatively petty human squabbles, but I don’t think the dead army will work as the focal point of the show or the final boss or whatever.

RE: My wild card prediction this season is a Stannis return  
Jay on the Island : 4/14/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14386150 Oscar said:
Quote:
Unless you see someone killed on the show (and sometimes even when you do) there is a chance they are coming back. His links to the Red Lady and the fact that we didn’t see him actually killed, and that it was Brienne who supposedly did the job, it just doesn’t check out for me.

Now I think it would be a weird move because he’s a boring character with a very low approval rating. But that’s my out there guess.

I am rooting for Cersei to win somehow but I doubt that happens.


The main thing I really hope for is that they deal with the white walkers/army of the dead somehow by mid season. And then the last few episodes are just the people dealing with each other. My rationale is that the white walkers are not interesting, not developed as characters in any way, and basically feel very gimmicky. They have been a necessary plot vehicle as this sort of looming crisis or doom that overshadows all of the comparatively petty human squabbles, but I don’t think the dead army will work as the focal point of the show or the final boss or whatever.

I doubt Stannis is alive. Brianne would not let him live. She made a vow to kill Stannis for killing Remly and as we all know she is as honorable as anyone in the show. If she made a vow she is going to keep it. Also Stephen Dillane who played Stannis did not like the show or his performance as Stannis.

I think you will get your wish with the white walkers. I think that they will be the first threat that will be dealt with obviously. I have a feeling Cersei is going to march her army north in an attempt to catch Jon Snow and Dany off guard. They will still be recovering from their grueling battle with the white walkers and then have to immediately battle Cersei without little time to prepare.
Eh...  
ZGiants98 : 4/14/2019 3:50 pm : link
I think there is a lot more depth behind the Knight King than we've been shown. If they show he's fighting for a purpose or even that he's Bran or something like that from a different timeline, that would clearly change the whole dynamic and give the final confrontation more meaning.
Yeah but we’re seven seasons in now  
Oscar : 4/14/2019 4:03 pm : link
Unless the Night King turns out to be a manifestation of like Arya’s subconscious or something I don’t understand how they can push the character so much. The most we’ve seen of him so far is walking straight ahead and occasionally glaring.

Frankly even if Bran is the Night King I think that is not enough, Bran has had minimal screen time for such a central role and his story is not interesting.

haven't read the Littlefinger theory but I'd be shocked if he's alive  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2019 4:05 pm : link
his entire arc ran its course and it's hard to see what continued purpose he would have. His entire history was aired when he got executed, he has no title that matters, no alliances left.

The biggest wild cards to me seem to clearly be the origins of the night king/relationship with the starks and what happens with the golden company. I'm sure there will be other twists but those are the 2 major plotlines that have been setup for a while. Both are kind of hanging over everything the same way the knights of the vale were prior to the battle of the bastards. And yeah, I'm expecting a lot of main characters to die including at least 1 of Jon/Dany. Probably Jon because he's almost gotten himself killed in every season.
RE: Littlefinger is dead  
Big Blue Hokie : 4/14/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14385946 hog-on-ice said:
Quote:
But did they burn his body?


Didn’t little finger give coins to someone from the Hall of Faces? I would bet he paid someone to die for him.
RE: I can't wait  
barens : 4/14/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14385785 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I am worried that many fans will not be happy with the way the series ends. This really blows that there are only 6 episodes left.


That's really par for the course. How many great series ended up with great endings. Hard to achieve.

But very excited nonetheless.
Anyone know how long tonight’s episode is?  
Oscar : 4/14/2019 4:18 pm : link
Had heard these are all well over an hour with some approaching two hours.
RE: Anyone know how long tonight’s episode is?  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14386224 Oscar said:
Quote:
Had heard these are all well over an hour with some approaching two hours.


Tonight is 54 minutes, episode 2 is 58 minutes, and then the last 4 are all about 80 minutes.
The idea of Littlefinger  
jvm52106 : 4/14/2019 5:19 pm : link
coming back, while interesting, has very little chance of being correct. By the end of last season he was more in the way then beneficial to the story and needed to go.

BY the way, the assumption is that Jon is the Prince who was promised. But, what if it is not him? There are a number of possibilities that it could be.
RE: The idea of Littlefinger  
Big Blue Hokie : 4/14/2019 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14386297 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
coming back, while interesting, has very little chance of being correct. By the end of last season he was more in the way then beneficial to the story and needed to go.

BY the way, the assumption is that Jon is the Prince who was promised. But, what if it is not him? There are a number of possibilities that it could be.


I think the Prince is Jamie
RE: Yeah but we’re seven seasons in now  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2019 6:17 pm : link
In comment 14386205 Oscar said:
Quote:
Unless the Night King turns out to be a manifestation of like Arya’s subconscious or something I don’t understand how they can push the character so much. The most we’ve seen of him so far is walking straight ahead and occasionally glaring.

Frankly even if Bran is the Night King I think that is not enough, Bran has had minimal screen time for such a central role and his story is not interesting.


Same view, don’t really care about the Night King. I’d like that to be done early and not saved for the finale.
RE: The idea of Littlefinger  
barens : 4/14/2019 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14386297 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
coming back, while interesting, has very little chance of being correct. By the end of last season he was more in the way then beneficial to the story and needed to go.

BY the way, the assumption is that Jon is the Prince who was promised. But, what if it is not him? There are a number of possibilities that it could be.


Keep thinking back to when Tyrion was on his way to see Dany, and the priest started looking at him when she was talking about a savior.
Won’t spoil it on here  
eli4life : 4/14/2019 7:31 pm : link
But about a week and a half ago I went to the doctor and while I was waiting to be called in one of the receptionists said loudly to the other I read online this guy who translated it to I believe Russian said blah blah blah. Major twist I was so pissed
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