Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

IMO: I won't be upset with any direction team takes

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/14/2019 10:14 pm
Looking at this roster, there are needs everywhere.

I keep seeing comments from poster, "I will throw the remote if they take such-and-such position or such-and-such prospect."

But honestly, in reviewing all of the various draft write-ups on the top 20-30 prospects, any of them would help us.

Even the pecking order of the best DTs, DE/LBs, QBs, OLs, etc. is open to debate.

If they take a QB at #6, it will make sense to me.

If they take a DL or DE/LB at #6, it will make sense to me.

If they take a certain player over a supposedly higher rated player, I can understand the rationale.

Unlike most years, I'm just going to sit back and watch what unfolds.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: Go Terps  
Go Terps : 4/14/2019 11:49 pm : link
In comment 14386648 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
But I can even see the case for Gary, especially given the physical ailment he was playing with. He's an intriguing guy.


The lack of production is scary, though. At least it is to me. I don't want to end up with another Kenny Holmes, where the guy looks like Bruce Smith but plays like Cedric Jones.
Giving away valuable draft capital to trade up from 6  
FranknWeezer : 4/14/2019 11:51 pm : link
Would piss me off royally. As would another mid-round QB. Other than that, Iím on board with what a Eric suggests about just going along for the ride this year b/c we have so many needs.
I agree in spirit  
MM_in_NYC : 4/14/2019 11:55 pm : link
however WR or TE, given who is in this draft, would be upsetting at 6. They wouldn't be at 17. Hockenson is good but not 6 good. And of course, no Gary.
I won't be upset with a single pick  
giantstock : 4/15/2019 12:15 am : link
Disappointed - yes.

But the Giants could possibly have a decent year. Draft picks absolutely can surprise.

Just want to see improvement with a future. And they don;t need to get a QB this year to have one.
RE: I agree in spirit  
Mike in Prescott : 4/15/2019 12:25 am : link
I was just about to add that. WR/TE at six would upset me. But 17? Sure. We need help everywhere.

In comment 14386669 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
however WR or TE, given who is in this draft, would be upsetting at 6. They wouldn't be at 17. Hockenson is good but not 6 good. And of course, no Gary.
I guess I'm not that good of a lock-step fan...  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/15/2019 12:25 am : link
...none of these QBs look good enough to burn a #6 on.

Yeah we need a QB. But that doesn't mean we need to waste a prime pick on a total question mark. Doing that, to quote our GM, will put us in QB hell.

Wait till 2020 to shoot for a QB. Lock, Jones, Haskins are not worth the #6 pick. Our defense is too horrible to pass on an potential 5-year all-pro to throw the dice at a questionable QB.
RE: I tried to make  
Eric on Li : 4/15/2019 12:48 am : link
In comment 14386638 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
this point in a thread I wrote several weeks ago.

Like it or not, here is the best (and simplest) strategy:

Use the value of the 6th overall pick for a slight trade down. I would not drop down much (think Denver at 10 or Cincy at 11).

The trade MUST be for a 2020 2nd rounder and a SWAP of our 2019 3rd rounder (moves us up higher than #95).

This is the only draft move needed. Than move forward, truly taking the best player available with each of your 12 picks.

This concedes that Eli is our QB in 2019 as the Giants take significant steps to improve the overall strength of the roster in other areas. And, yes, I do believe a successful 2019 season is possible.

Now think about 2020. The Giants will have 5 of the top 100 draft picks with a first, 2 seconds, and 2 thirds. They will also have the 7th rounder due from the Eli Apple trade and potentially other comp pick(s) in the 7th. Perhaps the best 2020 draft capital in the league.

And our CAP situation (as it stands today) will be the best in the NFL in 2020.

Will we need a new QB at that point? Yes. And we will have the draft and CAP capital to address that. I cannot tell you who the replacement to Eli will be, but I can tell you that the patient approach I am suggesting is the best way to proceed.


The best thing for future draft capital is getting whatever picks they take correct. So I agree with the exception that if Bosa, or Williams, or Allen, or whomever is in the top tier on their board and available at 6, I wouldn't get cute. They can just as simply trade back 5-10 spots from #17 and pick up a 2020 2nd if they want to go in that direction (jt mentioned there have already been conversations with the Pats about moving up for multiple day 2 picks). Again, at that spot if there's a guy in the top 10 on their board available I probably wouldn't get too cute but if there are a bunch of guys clustered then maybe it will make sense.
I do not want a qb at 6  
GeofromNJ : 4/15/2019 1:12 am : link
None of the touted quarterbacks in this year's draft are so valuable that they justify supplanting a premier position player. And even at 17, I don't like Haskins, Murray, or Lock.
Idk..  
prdave73 : 4/15/2019 3:30 am : link
You just don't give up on a player like Odell Beckham and not get something to show for it.. Imo there are 3 players in this draft that are almost a sure fire. I know nothing truly is for guaranteed in the draft, but these are the closest to it. Nick Bose, Josh Allen, and Quinnen Williams. So if you give up on ODB, you have to get one of those three. If that means trading up to get one, then do it. Imo that's what I would do. Now if the Giants just want to go with whatever falls on their lap, well the next best thing imo would be to go with Ed Oliver with the #6 pick. I just don't see anyone else worth it expect maybe QB Haskins if the Giants want to snag a QB for the future. Then Clelin Ferrell with the 17th pick. I would be fine with any scenario above.
There are several I can't see taking at 6  
USAF NYG Fan : 4/15/2019 4:00 am : link
The obvious ones were mentioned; RB, Kicker, & Punter. I also don't see a WR, TE, CB, SS, FS, or OG. The team has a lot of holes to fill but they are not wide open. I actually think that what's being called the strength of the draft plays into the Giants' needs well this year on defense. I just want at least 3 more solid players that make the team better as immediate starters (unless 1 is a QB which I would understand waiting a year). I say 3 "more" because unlike most, I like the moves DG made this off-season better than Reese's FA decisions in his last few years.

What I also noticed is that a lot of posters from last year (maybe most) claimed that this year's QB choices would not be as good as last year's. I honestly don't agree. On average, I think they are just as good. Only time will tell for sure though.
I just donít get the Gary talk.  
Giant John : 4/15/2019 5:13 am : link
There are a ton of good guys who will be available and with so many need positions Iím sure they can find BPA. But not Gary at least at 6. Cant base the 6 pick on ďintrigueĒ.
Was saying exactly the same thing just the other day...  
M.S. : 4/15/2019 6:37 am : link

...who the hell cares what position we Draft, especially early on?

We are so bereft of quality and depth at:

(1) Offensive Tackle;
(2) Defensive End / Edge;
(3) Linebacker;
(4) Cornerback;
(5) Safety.

Otherwise, everything is just hunky-dory with our roster.

RE: I do not want a qb at 6  
SGMen : 4/15/2019 6:38 am : link
In comment 14386687 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
None of the touted quarterbacks in this year's draft are so valuable that they justify supplanting a premier position player. And even at 17, I don't like Haskins, Murray, or Lock.
While I am not sold on the QB's either, if any of these 3 fell to 17 I'd have to bite.

I have already noted on this thread that nothing would really surprise me. I somehow forgot about DL Ed Oliver though as he'll almost surely be available to us at that spot. I like his first step penetration ability. However, as has been noted, you'd have to scheme him the right way for him to likely execute well in the pro's. I'm not sure DG's and Bettcher's system fit him?
Gary  
Philu916 : 4/15/2019 7:12 am : link
Isnít the fact that Gary played through an injury as much negative as positive? Isnít there more of a chance that he can re-aggravate said injury since he didnít get surgery to have it heal properly?
RE: Giants38  
jvm52106 : 4/15/2019 7:50 am : link
In comment 14386644 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I tend to trust jtgiants and thus think "no QB."

But I can't get past my gut feeling that we draft Haskins. I was struck by the interaction between him, our coach, and our assistant GM at his pro day.


My thing about that is, if that is truly what they wanted to do then why make such a big spectacle of it when you are sitting at 6? You have told the world that is who we want and now given anyone else who might want him an incentive to get ahead of us. Unlike Barkley, we do not have the luxury to just say yep, he will be there when we pick so we don't need to be coy about it.

I think that was a show for someone else. I do not see Haskins with us at all!
RE: Gary  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 7:52 am : link
In comment 14386723 Philu916 said:
Quote:
Isnít the fact that Gary played through an injury as much negative as positive? Isnít there more of a chance that he can re-aggravate said injury since he didnít get surgery to have it heal properly?


Heís healthy now.
All these people  
Gman11 : 4/15/2019 8:12 am : link
that say that would throw the remote if they picked a certain player are basically saying that they think they know more than the people that do it for a living. It's unreal. "They didn't do what I wanted them to do, so I'm going to pitch a fit."

Whoever they take in the draft I just hope they can contribute and help return this team to respectability.
I ve seen good cases made  
joeinpa : 4/15/2019 8:18 am : link
For not drafting a quarterback, and vice versa.

Not going to be upset with their picks, but will be disappointed that the quarterback decision had to be kicked down the road again.
I'm sort of in this boat too  
George : 4/15/2019 8:21 am : link
Although I confess that I don't want a QB early, as I don't think the value is there in 2019.

That said, I see at least 5 openings for a starter on our roster, and potentially 3 others (RT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB plus S, C, WR) - not to mention literally zero depth at at every other position except RB (I like Gallman). I can see DG not only NOT trading up with some of our 12 picks, but actually trading down to acquire MORE.

I can't imagine a shittier roster in all of professional football.
Some things that I think...  
Chris684 : 4/15/2019 8:40 am : link
Any trade up for a QB would bother me. They have 2 firsts this year so if they like a guy, take him at 6. If the scenario presents itself where they could miss out without a trade? Just sit tight and use the extra picks to fill out the roster.

Any trade that nets a 2020 first should be strongly considered. Tua-Fromm-Herbert await with the commitment to Eli in 2019 already in place.

I would stay away from Gary at #6.

I would be open to drafting Hockenson at #6 depending on how the board falls.

Drafting a QB in rounds 2-7 would ring very hollow after Webb and Lauletta.

It would be ideal if they can get back into the late 2nd or early 3rd, somewhere between 37 and 95. Trading down from 17 might be the best way if possible.

RE: I'm sort of in this boat too  
jvm52106 : 4/15/2019 8:40 am : link
In comment 14386755 George said:
Quote:
Although I confess that I don't want a QB early, as I don't think the value is there in 2019.

That said, I see at least 5 openings for a starter on our roster, and potentially 3 others (RT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB plus S, C, WR) - not to mention literally zero depth at at every other position except RB (I like Gallman). I can see DG not only NOT trading up with some of our 12 picks, but actually trading down to acquire MORE.

I can't imagine a shittier roster in all of professional football.


Seriously? Look at the Cardinals right now. Their Oline sucks, their defense stripped and their best player was not much of anything (David Johnson) last season.
Agree completely  
Mike from Ohio : 4/15/2019 8:40 am : link
Aside from a couple of notable posters, those opinions are based on the thoughts of amateurs who have a very limited ability to evaluate prospects and how the team plans to use them. They also never sat in a room with these guys and got a sense for who they are.

If you think you are in a better position to evaluate these guys than the professionals, you should take a step back and ask why you aren't being paid for your opinions.
I will be upset if they do not take a Dominant Defensive  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/15/2019 8:40 am : link
Lineman in the draft - Very upset
Eric O would agree on both your points  
Dave on the UWS : 4/15/2019 9:20 am : link
and Haskins is the last guy in for a personal visit. Hmm
RE: Agree completely  
SHO'NUFF : 4/15/2019 9:43 am : link
In comment 14386778 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Aside from a couple of notable posters, those opinions are based on the thoughts of amateurs who have a very limited ability to evaluate prospects and how the team plans to use them. They also never sat in a room with these guys and got a sense for who they are.

If you think you are in a better position to evaluate these guys than the professionals, you should take a step back and ask why you aren't being paid for your opinions.


yet, us "amateurs" predicted busted picks better than Reese did... so there's that.
Gettlemen says you don't get cute  
Rjanyg : 4/15/2019 10:20 am : link
If you like the QB you take him...end of story. Here is the ideal situation in my eyes:

1. You get either Haskins or Lock with one of the 1st round picks and my preference is Lock with a small trade up from 17 after getting a front 7 Defender with pick 6.

2. You trade pick 37 for Rosen after having used the 2 first round picks on Front 7 defense, OT or a play maker on offense.

3. You trade pick 17 for Rosen and pick 33 having selected the best pass rusher available at pick 6.

I don't want Jones and selecting a QB in round 2 seems like a wasted pick after the Webb and Lauletta results.
feel same way Eric...  
BillKo : 4/15/2019 10:52 am : link
...plus you need to trust who is in charge now.

It's their second year, this is when we want to see roster talent improve, and also results on game day.
10 days to go  
Dave on the UWS : 4/15/2019 11:19 am : link
We all have to put on our big boy pants and keep calm. We have to trust them (until we donít - see J. Reese)
I'm with you.  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/15/2019 11:22 am : link
We have so many holes, I don't think we can go wrong with what position we take.
I really dont grasp why some people insist that Eli cant be here  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/15/2019 11:26 am : link
If they take QB.

They're not just going to unceremoniously cut the guy.

Moving forward does not mean Eli has to be gone immediately. It simply doesnt.
The roster's in a state  
JonC : 4/15/2019 11:33 am : link
where you could make a case for pure BPA. I just don't see a QB worthy of #6 in this draft. At #17, I could see it as it appears the value isn't much different for prospects in the 15-45 range, imo.
I will be upset  
WillVAB : 4/15/2019 11:45 am : link
If thereís no vision or gameplan for attacking the draft.

DG made a commitment to fixing the trenches when he was hired. Well, now the opportunity is right there in front of him to complete the job.

If he takes a ďplug holesĒ approach and takes WR, CB, etc high Iíll be disappointed.

If he takes a QB high Iíll be disappointed but understanding ó and his legacy will ride on that pick for better or worse.
Will  
JonC : 4/15/2019 11:47 am : link
I believe you'll get your wish. The prospect deck is loaded for it, as you said. Their first three picks should be foundation players.
RE: Will  
Giantz_comeback : 4/15/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14387061 JonC said:
Quote:
I believe you'll get your wish. The prospect deck is loaded for it, as you said. Their first three picks should be foundation players.


Agreed Jon. In all likelihood it will be the trenches. Just make sure the guy you pick has shown more than just freakish talent but also enough translateable traits to win at the NFL level. Otherwise you end up with Flowers and Apple again.
RE: Will  
WillVAB : 4/15/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14387061 JonC said:
Quote:
I believe you'll get your wish. The prospect deck is loaded for it, as you said. Their first three picks should be foundation players.


Nice. Itís the smart play.
RE: The roster's in a state  
PatersonPlank : 4/15/2019 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14387039 JonC said:
Quote:
where you could make a case for pure BPA. I just don't see a QB worthy of #6 in this draft. At #17, I could see it as it appears the value isn't much different for prospects in the 15-45 range, imo.


This is how I see it too. The closer we get to the draft, the more scared of all the QB's I get. I think any of the top 6 could bust, and we know 1 or 2 will be good, but I have no idea who. I'd rather take top D players at #6 and #17, then wait and see what QB is there at #37 (Grier for example). IMO whoever we get at #37 will have just as much of a chance as one we would pick at #6.
I agree,  
darren in pdx : 4/15/2019 12:39 pm : link
this is a good draft to have a lot of picks, so many options to go with and can argue for most of all of them. No matter what position they pick, they just have to be a good player.
With the 7th pick of the 1979 NFL draft, the NY Giants select ...  
Spider56 : 4/15/2019 1:22 pm : link
Eric, I think most years are like this ... only the football gods really know who the real playas will be ... and for sure every yearteams reach for QBs based on media hype which has gotten more intense and confusing.
I only hope DG stays true to his tenets and doesnít reach ... or panic.
RE: RE: Will  
UberAlias : 4/15/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14387160 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14387061 JonC said:


Quote:


I believe you'll get your wish. The prospect deck is loaded for it, as you said. Their first three picks should be foundation players.



Nice. Itís the smart play.
What's not a smart play is to continue to pass on QB with major assets with no preparation to land one in the future. If the plan is to defer QB to next year, it's a terrible plan if they simply decide to "wing it" with whatever draft picks they fall into next season.
The "plan"  
JonC : 4/15/2019 3:09 pm : link
is not force a QB and find the one you believe in. Load up the roster around Eli in the meantime, see who reaches UFA, and go from there.
Oh, just stop it people  
idiotsavant : 4/15/2019 3:10 pm : link
It's SPORTs! It's our chance to be "upset" about shiznit that does not actually (sssshhhh.... 'matter'...secret..but. yeah)
RE: The  
UberAlias : 4/15/2019 3:30 pm : link
In comment 14387446 JonC said:
Quote:
is not force a QB and find the one you believe in. Load up the roster around Eli in the meantime, see who reaches UFA, and go from there.
Agreed not to force one. But my point is this: They held the #2 pick last year and passed in a year when 5 went in round 1. They passed on a SB winning QB in FA who had a history with the coach. This year they have the #6 pick and are likely to pass again with another high draft pick. Their biggest chip in a potential trade to secure their QB was Odell and they cashed that in this year so have an extra 1st round pick this year --but likely to pass with that one as well. They have a second shot at Rosen at a discounted rate, but likely to pass there as well. So if the pass on all that, we're probably looking at passing on QBs three times in the first round in years where likely 9 of them go in the first while spending an abundance of draft capital elsewhere.

If the team decides to pass on the QBs again, that is fine. But if they do so and don't trade any of their draft assets to put themselves in position to finally make a legitimate run at someone next year then they are outright irresponsible. At least trade your second round pick for a 1 next year. Because the QBs next year are not going to be easily had. So if that's the plan, they had better prepare for it, not just spend all their available resource and wing it next year.
RE: RE: RE: Will  
WillVAB : 4/15/2019 6:28 pm : link
In comment 14387438 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14387160 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14387061 JonC said:


Quote:


I believe you'll get your wish. The prospect deck is loaded for it, as you said. Their first three picks should be foundation players.



Nice. Itís the smart play.

What's not a smart play is to continue to pass on QB with major assets with no preparation to land one in the future. If the plan is to defer QB to next year, it's a terrible plan if they simply decide to "wing it" with whatever draft picks they fall into next season.


They have a ton of cap space next year and a ton of picks this year.

They could trade a bunch of draft picks next year to move up for a QB if they need to. The picks this year and space next year should set the roster up where giving up some picks in the future wonít sting.

The absolute wrong decision to make is to draft a QB bc theyíre at 6. Or bc a name may fall to 17. Lets be real ó at the end of the college season the majority opinion around here was Herbert or bust. Nothingís really changed besides media hype on a handful of QBs.

As far as last yearís QB crop goes, none of those guys have shown that the Giants made a mistake passing on them. All of their issues heading into the draft remained the same when they laced them up on Sundays.
I never said they should draft a QB at 6  
UberAlias : 4/15/2019 7:29 pm : link
I very clearly said they shouldnít if they werenít high on any of them. But to ignore the need over and over again without any preparation to make a future move would be foolish. After years of passing, you would hope they would be smart enough not to simply roll the dice and hope.
RE: I never said they should draft a QB at 6  
WillVAB : 4/15/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14387783 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I very clearly said they shouldnít if they werenít high on any of them. But to ignore the need over and over again without any preparation to make a future move would be foolish. After years of passing, you would hope they would be smart enough not to simply roll the dice and hope.


They arenít ignoring it. Theyíve done their due diligence on all of the QBs last year and this year. Look at the time and visits the organization has spent on QB prospects this year.

They arenít rolling the dice and hoping. DG is rebuilding the roster the right way, and if theyíre in a position to grab the next QB they love they will. I suspect that will happen in 2020.
Iím not sure what to tell you Will.  
UberAlias : 4/15/2019 8:13 pm : link
The QB position isnít just some other need. Itís the single most important element to a teams sustained success. You canít just say we will draft a QB next year. For any of the top prospects you have to be in position to draft them. If they donít suck next year or donít transfer some draft assets from this year to next year, very good odds they wonít be in position to draft one of the top prospects. Thatís a fact. I doubt the plan is to suck this year. Hence if they intend to draft a guy next year they would be wise to prepare accordingly.
If the Giants agree that tier 1  
Jay in Toronto : 4/15/2019 9:32 pm : link
Is three players, how far down tier 2 goes will be critical to any trades down (assuming there will be a willing partner).
The idea that a QB should be picked this year is fine  
Rjanyg : 4/15/2019 10:06 pm : link
Because it makes sense. The problem to me is overvaluing a QB and using the 6th pick on a guy just because he might not make it to 17.

Many have Haskins, some think Lock and a few think Jones.

One thing I know, there is a good chance they like somebody who may be available at pick 37. Grier, Finley or Stidham could all be possible choices and in reality, how far behind are they from Haskins, Lock or Jones?

My hope is a trade for Rosen materializes and we use the 37th pick to make it happen. Otherwise Lock is the most exciting QB to me. I think a year on the bench learning from Eli and having Shurmur and Shula work with him will refine his skills. He already has a rocket arm and good size and has played against tough competition for 4 years.

Agree with Uber above. Mentioned numerous times  
Jimmy Googs : 4/16/2019 7:04 am : link
that if Giants have no conviction in QBs that could have been had in last year's draft, in Free Agency or this year's draft, then they need to sell some of their draft collateral to gain an extra #1 for 2020.

A brand new shiny QB isn't going to just wind up on their doorstep in a basket one day...
Uber  
JonC : 4/16/2019 8:48 am : link
I totally get it, let's see what happens.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner