Looking at this roster, there are needs everywhere.
I keep seeing comments from poster, "I will throw the remote if they take such-and-such position or such-and-such prospect."
But honestly, in reviewing all of the various draft write-ups on the top 20-30 prospects, any of them would help us.
Even the pecking order of the best DTs, DE/LBs, QBs, OLs, etc. is open to debate.
If they take a QB at #6, it will make sense to me.
If they take a DL or DE/LB at #6, it will make sense to me.
If they take a certain player over a supposedly higher rated player, I can understand the rationale.
Unlike most years, I'm just going to sit back and watch what unfolds.
I was only told about the Wilson pick literally 15 minutes before the picked him.
I'm like you guys, following what jtgiants is saying.
Like a Flower, Apple, Cedric Jones...
I get a kick out of people still complaining about Barkley. In a single season he has become the core of the team. He has surrpased expectation.
I want players that surrpass my expectation.....but position, player, trades, movement....i am open for anthing.
I have heard, drafting a TE is remote thrower. Not if he becomes the next gronk?
My hope is that R. Williams falls for some reason and we get lucky. That is the most likely scenario: a guy falls due to trades.
That's given.
Like a Flower, Apple, Cedric Jones...
I get a kick out of people still complaining about Barkley. In a single season he has become the core of the team. He has surrpased expectation.
I want players that surrpass my expectation.....but position, player, trades, movement....i am open for anthing.
I have heard, drafting a TE is remote thrower. Not if he becomes the next gronk?
Even at the DL position, there isn't as much consensus out there as there is on BBI about the pecking order. I can see a number of guys going in the top 10 who some here would be pissed at if the Giants took at #6. The Giants have been pretty good at evaluating DLs.
Don't draft Gary, don't draft Gary, don't draft Gary...
Like it or not, here is the best (and simplest) strategy:
Use the value of the 6th overall pick for a slight trade down. I would not drop down much (think Denver at 10 or Cincy at 11).
The trade MUST be for a 2020 2nd rounder and a SWAP of our 2019 3rd rounder (moves us up higher than #95).
This is the only draft move needed. Than move forward, truly taking the best player available with each of your 12 picks.
This concedes that Eli is our QB in 2019 as the Giants take significant steps to improve the overall strength of the roster in other areas. And, yes, I do believe a successful 2019 season is possible.
Now think about 2020. The Giants will have 5 of the top 100 draft picks with a first, 2 seconds, and 2 thirds. They will also have the 7th rounder due from the Eli Apple trade and potentially other comp pick(s) in the 7th. Perhaps the best 2020 draft capital in the league.
And our CAP situation (as it stands today) will be the best in the NFL in 2020.
Will we need a new QB at that point? Yes. And we will have the draft and CAP capital to address that. I cannot tell you who the replacement to Eli will be, but I can tell you that the patient approach I am suggesting is the best way to proceed.
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There are many players I would have varying degrees of esxcitement over at #6. That said there are still a few I would believe are a mistake. I don't think we'll draft them but until it's over I never fully relax. That tension is what makes it a special sports event for me.
Even at the DL position, there isn't as much consensus out there as there is on BBI about the pecking order. I can see a number of guys going in the top 10 who some here would be pissed at if the Giants took at #6. The Giants have been pretty good at evaluating DLs.
I'm fine with going in any direction if it is for the right reasons. Passing on a QB because we are a "win-now team" (defined by this regime as not competing for a title, but attempting to qualify for the POs) is not optimal. If the Giants do not believe a QB is worth it, then yes, we have enough holes to fill that we could go in just about any direction. Ironically enough, it is the sheer amount of holes to fill - and thus our ability to go in any direction - that should clue this FO that we are not anything close to a win-now team.
But I can't get past my gut feeling that we draft Haskins. I was struck by the interaction between him, our coach, and our assistant GM at his pro day.
It will be tough to get too angry about any particular pick in the first round of this draft; if I could ask for one thing it would be not to pick Gary.
Step on it, Mike. The Giants just picked Daniel Jones at #6.
Sorry, Eric...you're on your own.
As it stands today, 36 current NFL quarterbacks on a team roster will be Free Agents at the end of this season.
I could see at least 4 top QBs (with perhaps all better than this years group) in the 2020 draft. Don't sleep on Jacob Eason. Eason transferred to Washington, leaving Georgia when he lost out to freshman Jake Fromm. Does anyone remember Baker Mayfield leaving for Oklahoma when he lost his job out to - YES- Davis Webb? How did that end up?
Much will happen during the 2019 college football season, and its not a reach to think 1 or 2 others will be added to the list of top available quarterbacks.
365 days ago, no one was talking about Murray or Haskins and the 2019 draft. Expect the same in 2020.
His contract ends at the conclusion of this season. Sit back and let that play out. If Eli has a poor year, he is obviously gone.
But what if Eli has a solid year? What next?
I would sign Eli to a one year TEAM friendly contract. Considering his relationship with the Giants, it will be an easy negotiation and they can mutually announce to the world that 2020 is Eli's last season.
Make the contract HEAVY on roster bonuses based on 2020 games STARTED.
The goal being that Eli could start some games, but the hope is that his replacement will have a smooth transition into his new role. With a clearly defined role, Eli serves as hopefully a backup/mentor and aids the transition.
His contract ends at the conclusion of this season. Sit back and let that play out. If Eli has a poor year, he is obviously gone.
But what if Eli has a solid year? What next?
I would sign Eli to a one year TEAM friendly contract. Considering his relationship with the Giants, it will be an easy negotiation and they can mutually announce to the world that 2020 is Eli's last season.
Make the contract HEAVY on roster bonuses based on 2020 games STARTED.
The goal being that Eli could start some games, but the hope is that his replacement will have a smooth transition into his new role. With a clearly defined role, Eli serves as hopefully a backup/mentor and aids the transition.
If somebody unexpectedly slips and is too good a value, that’s different. But if they are looking for their future QB in this draft, they should have cut Eli.
That’s what makes me think JT is right and Giants will take a lineman or edge rusher at 6.
The lack of production is scary, though. At least it is to me. I don't want to end up with another Kenny Holmes, where the guy looks like Bruce Smith but plays like Cedric Jones.
But the Giants could possibly have a decent year. Draft picks absolutely can surprise.
Just want to see improvement with a future. And they don;t need to get a QB this year to have one.
In comment 14386669 MM_in_NYC said:
Yeah we need a QB. But that doesn't mean we need to waste a prime pick on a total question mark. Doing that, to quote our GM, will put us in QB hell.
Wait till 2020 to shoot for a QB. Lock, Jones, Haskins are not worth the #6 pick. Our defense is too horrible to pass on an potential 5-year all-pro to throw the dice at a questionable QB.
Like it or not, here is the best (and simplest) strategy:
Use the value of the 6th overall pick for a slight trade down. I would not drop down much (think Denver at 10 or Cincy at 11).
The trade MUST be for a 2020 2nd rounder and a SWAP of our 2019 3rd rounder (moves us up higher than #95).
This is the only draft move needed. Than move forward, truly taking the best player available with each of your 12 picks.
This concedes that Eli is our QB in 2019 as the Giants take significant steps to improve the overall strength of the roster in other areas. And, yes, I do believe a successful 2019 season is possible.
Now think about 2020. The Giants will have 5 of the top 100 draft picks with a first, 2 seconds, and 2 thirds. They will also have the 7th rounder due from the Eli Apple trade and potentially other comp pick(s) in the 7th. Perhaps the best 2020 draft capital in the league.
And our CAP situation (as it stands today) will be the best in the NFL in 2020.
Will we need a new QB at that point? Yes. And we will have the draft and CAP capital to address that. I cannot tell you who the replacement to Eli will be, but I can tell you that the patient approach I am suggesting is the best way to proceed.
The best thing for future draft capital is getting whatever picks they take correct. So I agree with the exception that if Bosa, or Williams, or Allen, or whomever is in the top tier on their board and available at 6, I wouldn't get cute. They can just as simply trade back 5-10 spots from #17 and pick up a 2020 2nd if they want to go in that direction (jt mentioned there have already been conversations with the Pats about moving up for multiple day 2 picks). Again, at that spot if there's a guy in the top 10 on their board available I probably wouldn't get too cute but if there are a bunch of guys clustered then maybe it will make sense.
What I also noticed is that a lot of posters from last year (maybe most) claimed that this year's QB choices would not be as good as last year's. I honestly don't agree. On average, I think they are just as good. Only time will tell for sure though.
...who the hell cares what position we Draft, especially early on?
We are so bereft of quality and depth at:
(1) Offensive Tackle;
(2) Defensive End / Edge;
(3) Linebacker;
(4) Cornerback;
(5) Safety.
Otherwise, everything is just hunky-dory with our roster.
I have already noted on this thread that nothing would really surprise me. I somehow forgot about DL Ed Oliver though as he'll almost surely be available to us at that spot. I like his first step penetration ability. However, as has been noted, you'd have to scheme him the right way for him to likely execute well in the pro's. I'm not sure DG's and Bettcher's system fit him?
But I can't get past my gut feeling that we draft Haskins. I was struck by the interaction between him, our coach, and our assistant GM at his pro day.
My thing about that is, if that is truly what they wanted to do then why make such a big spectacle of it when you are sitting at 6? You have told the world that is who we want and now given anyone else who might want him an incentive to get ahead of us. Unlike Barkley, we do not have the luxury to just say yep, he will be there when we pick so we don't need to be coy about it.
I think that was a show for someone else. I do not see Haskins with us at all!
He’s healthy now.
Whoever they take in the draft I just hope they can contribute and help return this team to respectability.
Not going to be upset with their picks, but will be disappointed that the quarterback decision had to be kicked down the road again.
That said, I see at least 5 openings for a starter on our roster, and potentially 3 others (RT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB plus S, C, WR) - not to mention literally zero depth at at every other position except RB (I like Gallman). I can see DG not only NOT trading up with some of our 12 picks, but actually trading down to acquire MORE.
I can't imagine a shittier roster in all of professional football.
Any trade that nets a 2020 first should be strongly considered. Tua-Fromm-Herbert await with the commitment to Eli in 2019 already in place.
I would stay away from Gary at #6.
I would be open to drafting Hockenson at #6 depending on how the board falls.
Drafting a QB in rounds 2-7 would ring very hollow after Webb and Lauletta.
It would be ideal if they can get back into the late 2nd or early 3rd, somewhere between 37 and 95. Trading down from 17 might be the best way if possible.
That said, I see at least 5 openings for a starter on our roster, and potentially 3 others (RT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB plus S, C, WR) - not to mention literally zero depth at at every other position except RB (I like Gallman). I can see DG not only NOT trading up with some of our 12 picks, but actually trading down to acquire MORE.
I can't imagine a shittier roster in all of professional football.
Seriously? Look at the Cardinals right now. Their Oline sucks, their defense stripped and their best player was not much of anything (David Johnson) last season.
If you think you are in a better position to evaluate these guys than the professionals, you should take a step back and ask why you aren't being paid for your opinions.
If you think you are in a better position to evaluate these guys than the professionals, you should take a step back and ask why you aren't being paid for your opinions.
yet, us "amateurs" predicted busted picks better than Reese did... so there's that.
1. You get either Haskins or Lock with one of the 1st round picks and my preference is Lock with a small trade up from 17 after getting a front 7 Defender with pick 6.
2. You trade pick 37 for Rosen after having used the 2 first round picks on Front 7 defense, OT or a play maker on offense.
3. You trade pick 17 for Rosen and pick 33 having selected the best pass rusher available at pick 6.
I don't want Jones and selecting a QB in round 2 seems like a wasted pick after the Webb and Lauletta results.
It's their second year, this is when we want to see roster talent improve, and also results on game day.
They're not just going to unceremoniously cut the guy.
Moving forward does not mean Eli has to be gone immediately. It simply doesnt.
DG made a commitment to fixing the trenches when he was hired. Well, now the opportunity is right there in front of him to complete the job.
If he takes a “plug holes” approach and takes WR, CB, etc high I’ll be disappointed.
If he takes a QB high I’ll be disappointed but understanding — and his legacy will ride on that pick for better or worse.
Agreed Jon. In all likelihood it will be the trenches. Just make sure the guy you pick has shown more than just freakish talent but also enough translateable traits to win at the NFL level. Otherwise you end up with Flowers and Apple again.
Nice. It’s the smart play.
This is how I see it too. The closer we get to the draft, the more scared of all the QB's I get. I think any of the top 6 could bust, and we know 1 or 2 will be good, but I have no idea who. I'd rather take top D players at #6 and #17, then wait and see what QB is there at #37 (Grier for example). IMO whoever we get at #37 will have just as much of a chance as one we would pick at #6.
I only hope DG stays true to his tenets and doesn’t reach ... or panic.
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I believe you'll get your wish. The prospect deck is loaded for it, as you said. Their first three picks should be foundation players.
Nice. It’s the smart play.
If the team decides to pass on the QBs again, that is fine. But if they do so and don't trade any of their draft assets to put themselves in position to finally make a legitimate run at someone next year then they are outright irresponsible. At least trade your second round pick for a 1 next year. Because the QBs next year are not going to be easily had. So if that's the plan, they had better prepare for it, not just spend all their available resource and wing it next year.
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In comment 14387061 JonC said:
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I believe you'll get your wish. The prospect deck is loaded for it, as you said. Their first three picks should be foundation players.
Nice. It’s the smart play.
What's not a smart play is to continue to pass on QB with major assets with no preparation to land one in the future. If the plan is to defer QB to next year, it's a terrible plan if they simply decide to "wing it" with whatever draft picks they fall into next season.
They have a ton of cap space next year and a ton of picks this year.
They could trade a bunch of draft picks next year to move up for a QB if they need to. The picks this year and space next year should set the roster up where giving up some picks in the future won’t sting.
The absolute wrong decision to make is to draft a QB bc they’re at 6. Or bc a name may fall to 17. Lets be real — at the end of the college season the majority opinion around here was Herbert or bust. Nothing’s really changed besides media hype on a handful of QBs.
As far as last year’s QB crop goes, none of those guys have shown that the Giants made a mistake passing on them. All of their issues heading into the draft remained the same when they laced them up on Sundays.
They aren’t ignoring it. They’ve done their due diligence on all of the QBs last year and this year. Look at the time and visits the organization has spent on QB prospects this year.
They aren’t rolling the dice and hoping. DG is rebuilding the roster the right way, and if they’re in a position to grab the next QB they love they will. I suspect that will happen in 2020.
Many have Haskins, some think Lock and a few think Jones.
One thing I know, there is a good chance they like somebody who may be available at pick 37. Grier, Finley or Stidham could all be possible choices and in reality, how far behind are they from Haskins, Lock or Jones?
My hope is a trade for Rosen materializes and we use the 37th pick to make it happen. Otherwise Lock is the most exciting QB to me. I think a year on the bench learning from Eli and having Shurmur and Shula work with him will refine his skills. He already has a rocket arm and good size and has played against tough competition for 4 years.
A brand new shiny QB isn't going to just wind up on their doorstep in a basket one day...