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#6 draft ceiling vs floor

fkap : 4/15/2019 6:07 am
While we all want a stud at #6, with a high ceiling and a high floor, what if that isn't there?

I'm going to say low ceiling isn't a desired trait, and that high floor approaches mid ceiling, recognizing that "ceiling" terminology is all a grey area. so...

go with the getting the most potential, and go high ceiling/low floor and risk a bust?

go the opposite, and say we minimize the risk, and 'guarantee' we get at least some talent even if the likelihood of stardom isn't there - mid ceiling/high floor (the safe pick)

Obviously, there's middle ground, but for purposes of this thread, the higher ceiling comes at a cost to the floor. and obviously, all picks have risk and/or star potential.

what say you? shoot for the stars and risk launch failure, or be satisfied with a high likelihood launch to low earth orbit?

I say no to HC/LF. go with some risk, but I lean toward safe. A good team is built of solid good players, and we need to get there before shooting for the stars.
I'll say this: the NY Giants need to get "lucky" and acquire a blue  
SGMen : 4/15/2019 6:20 am : link
chipper, a rookie who plays a lot and impacts. We need someone like N. Bosa, J. Allen or R. Williams to fall in the draft and that only happens if teams trade down from the Top 5 cause teams want to or feel they need to move ahead of the Giants for a QB.

If the blue chipper isn't there; BUT, a QB is (say Haskins) and the Giants aren't sold on them, I can see us trading down and acquiring a very solid player may be a very good idea. It all depends upon the Giants value board.

My gut is that we will draft the highest rated player that we have on our draft board. I would NOT BE shocked if the draft went

1. Murray, 2. Bosa, 3. Allen, 4. Williams, 5. D. White, 6. J. Williams, OT, Alabama. I say this only because while J. Williams lacks size he does have great skills and technique. He would likely make for a good pass protecting RT type whose run blocking is sufficient.

I'm holding out hope someone trades up with the Jets for a QB and the Raiders maybe for a QB too, and a top defender surprisingly falls in our lap possibly?

Bottom line: if we don't get a "Top 5 blue chipper" maybe we can get a guy who is NFL ready and will be super solid in the NFL based on technique, instincts and game performance in college. Those two guys, for me, are either J. Williams or D. White, though LB D. White does have some potential personality issues with an ego and such and may not fit our lockeroom profile. I'm not sure.
What the Giants need a Barkely for the defense.  
George from PA : 4/15/2019 6:26 am : link
I do not need a "named" player....i am sorry but they need a high ceiling non-bust.....A effort, A talent, A attitude.
George  
fkap : 4/15/2019 6:33 am : link
What if that isn't there? obvious High floor/high ceiling is not an option.
I would make Ed Oliver the pick  
Chip : 4/15/2019 6:56 am : link
if those five are off the board
SG  
Big Rick in FL : 4/15/2019 6:58 am : link
I'm not sure they need to get lucky. Teams almost never feel the same way as the draft media. Just look at last year. I don't think anybody predicted Denzel Ward going at 4. I could see Haskins/Lock going in the top 5. I could also see either Ed Oliver or Jawaan Taylor going in the top 5.

I think there's a very good chance that Josh Allen or Quinnen Williams is there.
Chip is right.  
Watson : 4/15/2019 7:10 am : link
In this scenario the pick should be Oliver
Fkap  
George from PA : 4/15/2019 7:20 am : link
If the draft does not have 6 pro-bowlers then the Giants are f$#&!

The Giants do not have a margin of error vut they do have an advantage....as any position outside of RB is in play.

Assuming "#1" QB,Edge,DT,LB,DE are gone...

DG must get it right....not once, but few times with his 12 picks.
I like Jonah as a player but the size and strength issue  
No Where Man : 4/15/2019 7:25 am : link
concerns me. Somebody please convince me that although he is miles better than Pugh and Richburg, this is a player that won't have the same problems as they did, power wise.
RE: Fkap  
Big Rick in FL : 4/15/2019 7:40 am : link
In comment 14386726 George from PA said:
Quote:
If the draft does not have 6 pro-bowlers then the Giants are f$#&!

The Giants do not have a margin of error vut they do have an advantage....as any position outside of RB is in play.

Assuming "#1" QB,Edge,DT,LB,DE are gone...

DG must get it right....not once, but few times with his 12 picks.


Why assume the 5 Pro Bowlers in the entire draft go in the top 5? Teams don't grade players the same as each other and they definitely don't grade them the same as the draft media does.
I am not......i ecpect a probowler available at 6  
George from PA : 4/15/2019 8:00 am : link
For that matter, I hope for one at 17, too.

The Giants can not settle for high floor/ low ceiling.
Big Rick  
fkap : 4/15/2019 8:50 am : link
the question revolves around choosing potential pro bowler with a high risk of bust or a solid contributor with a low risk of bust. IF a pro bowler with low risk of bust is there, of course you take him, but that is not what the thread is about.

People keep saying DG HAS to get it right, but then go on to saying they want a stud. what if the potential stud has high potential to be the wrong choice and not turn out to be that stud we envisioned?
RE: I am not......i ecpect a probowler available at 6  
Jim Bur(n)t : 4/15/2019 9:02 am : link
In comment 14386742 George from PA said:
Quote:
For that matter, I hope for one at 17, too.

The Giants can not settle for high floor/ low ceiling.


Yep... I know that the draft is a crapshoot.. but no Marvin Austin's or Clint Sintim's, please...
Well, QB is certainly a position that can be defined  
yatqb : 4/15/2019 9:03 am : link
as high ceiling/low floor. I'm still hoping we take Haskins and take the risk.
QB is one position  
fkap : 4/15/2019 9:25 am : link
you need a higher ceiling. But you still have to be choosy about which pitch to swing for the fences on. Teams can certainly get by with a middle of the road meh QB, but you need a solid all around team everywhere else, and some unit has to stand out. Old school star RB/OL to wear down defenses, along with a good defense of our own to prevent getting into a scoring shootout? Still want better than average QB, though, even if he's not going to sniff a pro bowl.
In other words "Potential vs Production", which would you take?  
JohnB : 4/15/2019 9:54 am : link
Reese tended towards "potential" and you see what that got us. Gary is truly a Reese pick

Gettleman, I think favors "production". Barkley was a true Gettleman pick.


I always favor someone who has produced.

No need to complicate the question  
KeoweeFan : 4/15/2019 10:12 am : link
I think it boils down to whether DG wants to avoid a miss with #6 (QB or not), period. The odds are he'll lean toward a high floor. This would be especially true if he only had one 1st round choice.

He may take a little more risk with 17 and of course with 32. Thus a QB at those spots is not out of the question.
RE: What the Giants need a Barkely for the defense.  
Ira : 4/15/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14386707 George from PA said:
Quote:
I do not need a "named" player....i am sorry but they need a high ceiling non-bust.....A effort, A talent, A attitude.


If that player's there, I don't know who he is. I don't think there's anyone that good in the entire draft. We should get a very good player, but probably not a star like Barkley.
In my mind  
Johnny5 : 4/15/2019 10:51 am : link
I don't see a game wrecker / HOFer in this draft. So you have to rank them by highest floor highest ceiling.

I'm not sure why people feel we need Lawrence Taylor in round 1 for a draft to be successful.

We need incremental talent upgrades at a lot of positions, if we come away with 3 starters between 6, 17, and 37... That is a huge HUGE boost to this team regardless of position and/or HOF potential. The more solid starters you are trotting out there the better your stars are going to look (and the more impactful they will be). It shouldn't be about just the players individual ability, it's about how much that player boosts the overall play of his unit. That's what makes bad teams good... and good teams GREAT.
High Ceiling low floor  
Archer : 4/15/2019 11:12 am : link
A really good example of a player that comes with some baggage which lowers his floor is Oliver.

But he also comes with a great upside.
This is a player that I would risk the downside for potential greatness.

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