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CBS Sports Mock Draft with Russell Wilson traded to Giants.

Emlen'sGremlins : 4/15/2019 12:22 pm
Very interesting.
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RE: RE: RE: Ok  
FranchiseQB : 4/15/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14387277 dep026 said:
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In comment 14387271 FranchiseQB said:


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In comment 14387264 dep026 said:


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Ill take the word of the players on the team over "analysts" any day of the week.


Eli lost the players and the locker room.. Are you out to lunch. Odell was angry that the Giants were sticking with Eli, and he was speaking for others. If you listen to the players, Eli is finished.



Odell is gone - so who gives a fuck? A guy who quit on his team is a guy who I could care less about.
Barkley, Shepard, and Engram have spoken glowingly about Eli publicly this offseason. I guess they are scrubs, right?


You're delusional. When Eli is gone the truth will come out. You really expect those guys to go on the record dissing Eli?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Ok  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14387304 FranchiseQB said:
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You're delusional. When Eli is gone the truth will come out. You really expect those guys to go on the record dissing Eli?


Beckham and McAdoo did. Why wouldnt they?
FranchiseQB  
Chris684 : 4/15/2019 1:41 pm : link
Why don't you step off Odell's jock?
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Franchise  
jtgiants : 4/15/2019 1:42 pm : link
It's just not true. Believe what you want, you anti Eli people do that all the time, but it doesn't make it true
Franchise  
jtgiants : 4/15/2019 1:44 pm : link
Odell refused to play at end of year last year because the games were meaningless. This is the man you champion for?
He also chose not to participate in recovering an onside kick  
Chris684 : 4/15/2019 1:46 pm : link
even though he was on the field as a member of the hands team.

He's a great teammate though.
Chris  
jtgiants : 4/15/2019 1:50 pm : link
Well said
Where there is smoke, there's fire  
Rong5611 : 4/15/2019 1:51 pm : link
I'm not saying we should do this deal. Its almost too much to pay, especially with all the holes we have in the roster.

But, it's Russel Wilson. He's a terrific player, definitely not too old (yet). You try to get him if you can...

What would a reasonable deal for Wilson be?

I'm not sure. It would definitely have to include the 6th pick probably 17 and/or 37...maybe a conditional pick next year to get done. At a minimum...

Probably too much to give up in our current state right now.

If I were to trade for Wilson  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 1:51 pm : link
and have to lock him up for 35 million plus for 5 years....

Id give up #17 and a 2nd in 2020. Not a single thing more.
RE: RE: Franchise qb  
Rong5611 : 4/15/2019 1:54 pm : link
Hey ODELL,

Go post on the Brown's board...you are on Cleveland's team now.

Your act is getting tiring.

Your posts are like your "peeing" on the field at the Linc... embarrassing.


In comment 14387302 FranchiseQB said:
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In comment 14387281 jtgiants said:


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That is flat out false. It's not close to being true. Here's what is true. Odell was not nearly as liked as you think



Nonsense. That is why there were tons of articles reporting Eli was losing the locker room and just about none saying how great the giants locker room was under Eli in 2018.
RE: Franchise  
Giants38 : 4/15/2019 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14387287 jtgiants said:
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I can also point to tons of nfl people who know eli can still play


Iím not trying to start something - but who are those NFL people? Are any of them not associated with the Giants? Because I have yet to see any give that opinion.

Again, Iím not trying to fight; Iíd just like to know who those people are.
RE: RE: Franchise  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14387359 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14387287 jtgiants said:


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I can also point to tons of nfl people who know eli can still play



Iím not trying to start something - but who are those NFL people? Are any of them not associated with the Giants? Because I have yet to see any give that opinion.

Again, Iím not trying to fight; Iíd just like to know who those people are.


Name one person in any organization who has come out with their name associated with their quote agaisnt Eli? I know there are "unnamed sources" - but that doestn hold a stop of water with me.
RE: RE: RE: Franchise  
ron mexico : 4/15/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14387364 dep026 said:
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In comment 14387359 Giants38 said:


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In comment 14387287 jtgiants said:


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I can also point to tons of nfl people who know eli can still play



Iím not trying to start something - but who are those NFL people? Are any of them not associated with the Giants? Because I have yet to see any give that opinion.

Again, Iím not trying to fight; Iíd just like to know who those people are.



Name one person in any organization who has come out with their name associated with their quote agaisnt Eli? I know there are "unnamed sources" - but that doestn hold a stop of water with me.


That's a redicoulous ask. You can't find a quote from the org against any player on the team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Franchise  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14387372 ron mexico said:
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That's a redicoulous ask. You can't find a quote from the org against any player on the team.


Exactly.
RE: RE: RE: Franchise  
Giants38 : 4/15/2019 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14387364 dep026 said:
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In comment 14387359 Giants38 said:


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In comment 14387287 jtgiants said:


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I can also point to tons of nfl people who know eli can still play



Iím not trying to start something - but who are those NFL people? Are any of them not associated with the Giants? Because I have yet to see any give that opinion.

Again, Iím not trying to fight; Iíd just like to know who those people are.



Name one person in any organization who has come out with their name associated with their quote agaisnt Eli? I know there are "unnamed sources" - but that doestn hold a stop of water with me.


Thatís fine. But no one Iíve seen - media or otherwise - believes he can play. The only people who say he can seem to be from our front office or fans of the team. I know itís easy to dismiss everyone from the media as incompetent, wanting clicks, etc., but at some point isnít it possible that the narrative around the league that the guy canít play? Lombardi thrashed Eli on Trainaís podcast. What is his motive for doing so? Adam Schein - same thing. I could name dozens of others. At some point, isnít it possible that they are correct, not incompetent?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Franchise  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14387376 Giants38 said:
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Thatís fine. But no one Iíve seen - media or otherwise - believes he can play. The only people who say he can seem to be from our front office or fans of the team. I know itís easy to dismiss everyone from the media as incompetent, wanting clicks, etc., but at some point isnít it possible that the narrative around the league that the guy canít play? Lombardi thrashed Eli on Trainaís podcast. What is his motive for doing so? Adam Schein - same thing. I could name dozens of others. At some point, isnít it possible that they are correct, not incompetent?


Here is what I learned about media personnel. They are only relevant if people listen to them, click their articles, or subscribe to them. Many of the football fans in America are pretty clueless when it comes to the game. Which is no one's fault. I mean they dont understand the little things of the game. So, thats their target audience. So when they need to beh eard, who better to go at then high named players? If they were to come out and say Eli was still capable of winning - do you think people would read or listen to them? Look at OBJ while he was here. If there was a ratio of postiive to negative articles - which one comes out on top?

When they say its all about clicks, in reality - it really is.
This trade is a bad idea - but not a crazy idea.  
81_Great_Dane : 4/15/2019 2:21 pm : link
It's a bad idea because if you acquire Wilson and have to play him $30M, you will need some good, young, cost-controlled players Ė exactly the kind of players you'd hope to get with those picks. Without them, you'd likely end up clawing to get to mediocrity. I'm reminded of the Fran Tarkenton Giants teams ó†and that was pre-salary cap.

It's not a crazy idea because draft picks have a high bust rate, for every team and every GM. Trading four rolls of the dice for a proven, elite QB isn't crazy.

It makes MUCH more sense to trade a package of picks like that to draft a QB ó†because then the QB you draft is cost-controlled. If you get a cost-controlled, elite QB, you are set up for success.
A temporary fix...  
nzyme : 4/15/2019 2:25 pm : link
In 3-4 years there will talk about him not being the same and has lost a step. Do your homework and draft a young franchise QB!
Giants38  
jtgiants : 4/15/2019 2:28 pm : link
Start w Brian baldinger. Gregg Costello mayock before he took raiders job. I can go on. Many in the league disagree w the false narrative that's being force fed
Giants38  
jtgiants : 4/15/2019 2:30 pm : link
Also if you haven't heard anyone defend eli your not looking. There out there
Mocks are stupid and just for entertainment  
micky : 4/15/2019 2:31 pm : link
Sad some will actually think this could happen lolol
I wouldnít make that trade, especially not this year  
Bill L : 4/15/2019 2:36 pm : link
And thereís no way in hell that Wilson would turn us into a contender with essentially the same offense but even worse defense this year (no draft at all to help the D).

Now, after plugging holes in 2019, I do make that trade (next yearís equivalent). But not for Wilson. For Fromm or Tua.
A quick google search would reveal that  
Chris684 : 4/15/2019 2:43 pm : link
Romo, Favre, Namath, Baldinger and a bunch more people all have stated within the last year they believe Eli can still play well.
Why not add Sequan  
dk in TX : 4/15/2019 2:57 pm : link
Shockey's trade draft picks while they are at it.

For a 30 year old? This guys must see the Giants as a dumb organization. Sheeeh!!😡😠😠
Wilson's a nifty player  
idiotsavant : 4/15/2019 3:21 pm : link
But that's not a good trade

I would give the 2020 Rd 1 pick, and that's all, for Rosen or Wilson.

I love the Wilson style of play, but he's old ish.

This is very obviously the front 7 draft.
RE: If I were to trade for Wilson  
bw in dc : 4/15/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14387342 dep026 said:
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and have to lock him up for 35 million plus for 5 years....

Id give up #17 and a 2nd in 2020. Not a single thing more.


This is interesting and something more feasible. You'd have to send Eli to Seattle, too, right?

Apparently, Wilson wants a contract that is locked in as a % of the cap, not specific dollars. So if the agreed to % is 20%, then as the cap goes up so goes Wilson's salary.
RE: RE: If I were to trade for Wilson  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14387465 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14387342 dep026 said:


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and have to lock him up for 35 million plus for 5 years....

Id give up #17 and a 2nd in 2020. Not a single thing more.



This is interesting and something more feasible. You'd have to send Eli to Seattle, too, right?

Apparently, Wilson wants a contract that is locked in as a % of the cap, not specific dollars. So if the agreed to % is 20%, then as the cap goes up so goes Wilson's salary.


You trade for Wilson, you cut Eli an absorb the 5 million loss.
RE: Giants38  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2019 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14387394 jtgiants said:
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Start w Brian baldinger. Gregg Costello mayock before he took raiders job. I can go on. Many in the league disagree w the false narrative that's being force fed

I think the continued use of "false narrative" is a bit inflammatory to the conversation. It's a point of view that the Giants (and you, obviously) clearly disagree with, certainly. But it's not as if there isn't some level of evidence to suggest that Eli absolutely is in decline, just like there is some level of evidence to suggest that he's still as good as he ever was.

On top of that, this whole "force-fed" nonsense is getting a little tiresome. There are plenty of people who are capable of thinking for themselves who question how much Eli has left in the tank. It's a bit ironic and very hypocritical to keep suggesting that these opinions are force-fed but that yours and yours alone is valid simply because the Giants (owners of that sparkling 8-24 record over the past two seasons) happen to share it.

We can sit here and debate how much of that is due to Eli himself and how much is due to the team surrounding him, but this repetition of "false narrative" is a bit much at this point (along with the "you anti-Eli people" which can get filed away with every other "you people" type of opinion). It's not a false narrative. It's an unanswered question.
RE: Giants38  
Dnew15 : 4/15/2019 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14387394 jtgiants said:
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Start w Brian baldinger. Gregg Costello mayock before he took raiders job. I can go on. Many in the league disagree w the false narrative that's being force fed


Good luck being the NFL insider that reports something negative about a Manning.

Your insider days will be done in a hurry.
I repeat Nauseous if we give up this draft capital ...I agree w/ DEP  
bluetothegrave : 4/15/2019 4:01 pm : link
I see you somewhat agreed with my comment and then had to defend yourself. Why would anyone think I think Eli is btr than Wilson. People just take what they want from any statement and run with it. To clarify and I know you understood this.. I'll take Eli and...and 4 stud draft picks over russel wilson and a 5 year 170 million dollar obligation.. So Eli, lets say Oliver, Ferrell, taylor rapp and Julian Love over Russel wilson. Hell yes.
RE: I repeat Nauseous if we give up this draft capital ...I agree w/ DEP  
FranchiseQB : 4/15/2019 4:02 pm : link
In comment 14387539 bluetothegrave said:
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I see you somewhat agreed with my comment and then had to defend yourself. Why would anyone think I think Eli is btr than Wilson. People just take what they want from any statement and run with it. To clarify and I know you understood this.. I'll take Eli and...and 4 stud draft picks over russel wilson and a 5 year 170 million dollar obligation.. So Eli, lets say Oliver, Ferrell, taylor rapp and Julian Love over Russel wilson. Hell yes.


fine.. but you can't win anything with that and you are a year deeper into qb limbo. Eli is awful at this stage of his career.
no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
Vanzetti : 4/15/2019 4:08 pm : link
He is good but not elite like Brady and Brees. He is also wrong side of 30, which is amplified because he relies on athleticism a lot more than the average QB.
RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
FranchiseQB : 4/15/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14387559 Vanzetti said:
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He is good but not elite like Brady and Brees. He is also wrong side of 30, which is amplified because he relies on athleticism a lot more than the average QB.

Of course he is worth it. He is a Brees-level talent. You will see in ten years time you will view him as a can't miss hall of famer. It is probably not the right move for the Giants at this time but that is his value, rest assured.
RE: RE: Giants38  
bw in dc : 4/15/2019 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14387498 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14387394 jtgiants said:


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Start w Brian baldinger. Gregg Costello mayock before he took raiders job. I can go on. Many in the league disagree w the false narrative that's being force fed


I think the continued use of "false narrative" is a bit inflammatory to the conversation. It's a point of view that the Giants (and you, obviously) clearly disagree with, certainly. But it's not as if there isn't some level of evidence to suggest that Eli absolutely is in decline, just like there is some level of evidence to suggest that he's still as good as he ever was.

On top of that, this whole "force-fed" nonsense is getting a little tiresome. There are plenty of people who are capable of thinking for themselves who question how much Eli has left in the tank. It's a bit ironic and very hypocritical to keep suggesting that these opinions are force-fed but that yours and yours alone is valid simply because the Giants (owners of that sparkling 8-24 record over the past two seasons) happen to share it.

We can sit here and debate how much of that is due to Eli himself and how much is due to the team surrounding him, but this repetition of "false narrative" is a bit much at this point (along with the "you anti-Eli people" which can get filed away with every other "you people" type of opinion). It's not a false narrative. It's an unanswered question.


I think you and I kicked this around last week. Or maybe it was another poster...

But this narrative that Eli is the innocent bystander through all of this QB controversy is total bullsh-t. When the benching occurred, it was clear to be that Team Manning mobilized to control the messaging; and sent Eli out to the cameras weeping for support...
RE: RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
Hsilwek92 : 4/15/2019 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14387561 FranchiseQB said:
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In comment 14387559 Vanzetti said:


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He is good but not elite like Brady and Brees. He is also wrong side of 30, which is amplified because he relies on athleticism a lot more than the average QB.


Of course he is worth it. He is a Brees-level talent. You will see in ten years time you will view him as a can't miss hall of famer. It is probably not the right move for the Giants at this time but that is his value, rest assured.


He is not elite. Heís a very good QB, but not elite. You can keep typing it but, it still doesnít make it true.
One of the dumbest mock draft I've seen so far....  
GFAN52 : 4/15/2019 4:42 pm : link
for the Giants. And yeah there's no way the Cardinals are passing on Murray.
RE: RE: RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
FranchiseQB : 4/15/2019 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14387586 Hsilwek92 said:
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In comment 14387561 FranchiseQB said:


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In comment 14387559 Vanzetti said:


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He is good but not elite like Brady and Brees. He is also wrong side of 30, which is amplified because he relies on athleticism a lot more than the average QB.


Of course he is worth it. He is a Brees-level talent. You will see in ten years time you will view him as a can't miss hall of famer. It is probably not the right move for the Giants at this time but that is his value, rest assured.



He is not elite. Heís a very good QB, but not elite. You can keep typing it but, it still doesnít make it true.


He is elite. You will come around eventually. Very good is the next tier down.
RE: RE: RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2019 5:02 pm : link
In comment 14387586 Hsilwek92 said:
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In comment 14387561 FranchiseQB said:


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In comment 14387559 Vanzetti said:


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He is good but not elite like Brady and Brees. He is also wrong side of 30, which is amplified because he relies on athleticism a lot more than the average QB.


Of course he is worth it. He is a Brees-level talent. You will see in ten years time you will view him as a can't miss hall of famer. It is probably not the right move for the Giants at this time but that is his value, rest assured.



He is not elite. Heís a very good QB, but not elite. You can keep typing it but, it still doesnít make it true.

Russell Wilson is absolutely an elite QB. Maybe he's not worth the combined cost of draft picks PLUS his contract, but he's definitely an elite QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Franchise  
santacruzom : 4/15/2019 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14387383 dep026 said:
Quote:


When they say its all about clicks, in reality - it really is.


If it's all about clicks, criticizing Eli Manning sure seems like it would be a poor way to create them.
No one is giving up that amount  
Beer Man : 4/15/2019 5:14 pm : link
for a guy in his contract year
RE: No one is giving up that amount  
Beer Man : 4/15/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14387659 Beer Man said:
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for a guy in his contract year
Plus the way this team has been gutted, you don't give away that many premium picks with so many significant holes to fill. IMO the team will look for a young gun (this year or next) to groom behind Eli.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Franchise  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14387658 santacruzom said:
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In comment 14387383 dep026 said:


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When they say its all about clicks, in reality - it really is.



If it's all about clicks, criticizing Eli Manning sure seems like it would be a poor way to create them.


This makes zero sense. Eli has been shit on by the media for 15 years and counting.
RE: RE: RE: RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 6:05 pm : link
In comment 14387640 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14387586 Hsilwek92 said:


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In comment 14387561 FranchiseQB said:


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In comment 14387559 Vanzetti said:


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He is good but not elite like Brady and Brees. He is also wrong side of 30, which is amplified because he relies on athleticism a lot more than the average QB.


Of course he is worth it. He is a Brees-level talent. You will see in ten years time you will view him as a can't miss hall of famer. It is probably not the right move for the Giants at this time but that is his value, rest assured.



He is not elite. Heís a very good QB, but not elite. You can keep typing it but, it still doesnít make it true.


Russell Wilson is absolutely an elite QB. Maybe he's not worth the combined cost of draft picks PLUS his contract, but he's definitely an elite QB.


Since he isnít as good as Brady or Rodgers, who I consider the only 2 elite QBs in the league.... Russell Wilson is a tier below.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2019 6:42 pm : link
In comment 14387729 dep026 said:
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In comment 14387640 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 14387586 Hsilwek92 said:


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In comment 14387561 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


In comment 14387559 Vanzetti said:


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He is good but not elite like Brady and Brees. He is also wrong side of 30, which is amplified because he relies on athleticism a lot more than the average QB.


Of course he is worth it. He is a Brees-level talent. You will see in ten years time you will view him as a can't miss hall of famer. It is probably not the right move for the Giants at this time but that is his value, rest assured.



He is not elite. Heís a very good QB, but not elite. You can keep typing it but, it still doesnít make it true.


Russell Wilson is absolutely an elite QB. Maybe he's not worth the combined cost of draft picks PLUS his contract, but he's definitely an elite QB.



Since he isnít as good as Brady or Rodgers, who I consider the only 2 elite QBs in the league.... Russell Wilson is a tier below.

If those are your standards, then sure. I think that's a little too exclusive, but that's just my opinion - nothing wrong with you choosing to be more selective with the "elite" tag.
Wilson is pretty good.  
FStubbs : 4/15/2019 6:47 pm : link
But I wonder how long his game lasts now that he's on the other side of 30.

I wouldn't trade for him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
dep026 : 4/15/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14387757 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:


If those are your standards, then sure. I think that's a little too exclusive, but that's just my opinion - nothing wrong with you choosing to be more selective with the "elite" tag.


Believe it or not, I am tough in critiquing QBs. I think Rodgers and Brady are so good that it would be unfair to put anyone else on their status and that includes Brees. Doesnít mean they arenít HOF players. Just a step below.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: no way would they trade two firsts and two seconds for Russell Wilson  
FranchiseQB : 4/15/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14387772 dep026 said:
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In comment 14387757 Gatorade Dunk said:


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If those are your standards, then sure. I think that's a little too exclusive, but that's just my opinion - nothing wrong with you choosing to be more selective with the "elite" tag.



Believe it or not, I am tough in critiquing QBs. I think Rodgers and Brady are so good that it would be unfair to put anyone else on their status and that includes Brees. Doesnít mean they arenít HOF players. Just a step below.


Wilson's career compares very favorably to Brady's career at the same age. Rodgers is probably ahead. This is much closer than you think. Brady was a system QB until the 16-0 season.
RE: I wouldnít make that trade, especially not this year  
Bluesbreaker : 4/15/2019 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14387407 Bill L said:
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And thereís no way in hell that Wilson would turn us into a contender with essentially the same offense but even worse defense this year (no draft at all to help the D).

Now, after plugging holes in 2019, I do make that trade (next yearís equivalent). But not for Wilson. For Fromm or Tua.

Good call Bill no knock on Wilson but I prefer geting
a younger gifted QB New Caddy tha a beamer with a lot of
miles .
If the manner by which you conclude that Eli Manning  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2019 7:53 pm : link
can still play really well, then Russell Wilson is absolutely an Elite QB...
Like him or not  
mrvax : 4/15/2019 8:15 pm : link
Gettleman is not an idiot. This fantasy trade is laughable.
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