account of the dude who started the downward spiral. Like, come on. No repercussions for firebombing a threat?///
It's not the first time he's tried to steer a thread in that direction, either. Must be something in the water in Marin County.
Gatorade, that is exactly who stuck out like an ugly, hateful, inciter to me, too.
It probably took several treasuries and many conquests to build it in the first place.. even if they could do it now, it would be highly irresponsible. Best they could do is some sort of modern homage.
Why would it be irresponsible? Cathedrals have burned down in Europe before and been rebuilt.
it would take all of the money France has in the bank and then some to replicate.
Place if a long project to rebuild using the old methods starts.
Those are jobs, but much more than jobs, it's almost the opposite yo how we view 'work' today.
So, alongside the usual models and the bankers and the Ubers, you would have hundreds of hand stone mason's, hand carpenters, glaziers, painters both art and commercial, scultpers, weaver's, welders, and so forth, filling the bistros every night
also, "big brother" advertisers such as Google now regularly send me "violation" warnings about inappropriate threads (usually because of quasi-sexual content).
That image shows, amazingly, that as of this moment, the stone ceiling (vault) hasn't failed.
It would truly be remarkable if the interior of the cathedral is spared.
the interior is already gone. i think they are just trying to save the structure now.
I'm not certain of that, though I don't doubt there is significant damage. The "vault" is a stone structure below the roof (which was wood) and that does not appear to have failed. It forms the roof of the cathedral, above the nave, that one can see on the inside. The pitched wooden structure has burned and collapsed away but the vault seems to be holding. If that collapses, the structural integrity of the entire building will be compromised. That creates great risk of the walls collapsing inward, and the towers coming down after that. Hopefully it holds... we'll see.
also, "big brother" advertisers such as Google now regularly send me "violation" warnings about inappropriate threads (usually because of quasi-sexual content).
That was just because you left up that thread that clearly showed jlaws thumbs
one or two others. Notre Dame, despite not being the biggest, is/was a sight to behold. What a monumental loss. Wasn’t it almost bombed by a German soldier, who decided against it at the last second? Now this, tragic.
one or two others. Notre Dame, despite not being the biggest, is/was a sight to behold. What a monumental loss. Wasn’t it almost bombed by a German soldier, who decided against it at the last second? Now this, tragic.
Hitler ordered Paris destroyed. The commanding German general (Dietrich von Choltitz) disobeyed him.
For everything this piece of history has survived for close to a 1000 yrs and a fire in the attic (cause unknown) caused this. Thankfully, the courageous firefighters have saved the structure and the iconic bell towers which is a miracle.
For everything this piece of history has survived for close to a 1000 yrs and a fire in the attic (cause unknown) caused this. Thankfully, the courageous firefighters have saved the structure and the iconic bell towers which is a miracle.
The stained glass has all got to be gone. That is irreplaceable.
RE: RE: I’ve seen most of Europe’s biggest cathedrals, except Cologne, maybe Â
one or two others. Notre Dame, despite not being the biggest, is/was a sight to behold. What a monumental loss....
Jim, have been to and inside the cathedrals in Cologne and (many times) ND de Paris, and Cologne while spectacular in its own right, didn't hold a candle to ND, imo.
That also might be cost effective...retractable glass roof. How beautiful would a sunlit Easter mass or a snow fallen Xmas Eve mass be? Even if it wasnt snowing, the caroling could be heard throughout the streets if it was clear.
All of this is dependent on the frame though. It is impossible to recreate the building. But making it serviceable again in a way that reflects modern structures could be a wonderful breath of life to whats left.
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Gfy kenny
Your lack of self awareness is breathtaking. Jesus Christ.
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Gfy kenny
What part of "political threads aren't allowed" do you not understand??? What is so confusing about that policy? We're talking about the disaster/tragedy of one on the most iconic buildings/works of art on the planet and you need to chime in with something political. The PM is trying to comfort the people of France, that's all. We have absolutely no clue about the state of the structer at this point. How about you save your vitriol until the fire is actually put out. Jackass
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Gfy kenny
What part of "political threads aren't allowed" do you not understand??? What is so confusing about that policy? We're talking about the disaster/tragedy of one on the most iconic buildings/works of art on the planet and you need to chime in with something political. The PM is trying to comfort the people of France, that's all. We have absolutely no clue about the state of the structer at this point. How about you save your vitriol until the fire is actually put out. Jackass
wow from the sounds of the last thread it must have been awesome. I'd have gotten popcorn and watched that one all day.. people actually said all that shit... hahah
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Registered April 2019.
So that is an indictment on me for just deciding to sign up when Hswilek registered a year ago and kenny did a year before that? Outrageous.
My comment was targeted toward the fiscal irresponsibility of asking for help in rebuilding the thing and I guess thats too much to handle.
ehhh.. let it go .. this is nowhere as interesting as someone shouting liberals want to build a mosque there are whatever it was that took that thread off the rails.. wow so sorry i missed that. sounds super entertaining.
I think the fiscal irresponsibility thing has merit Â
But it may not be the right time to have a prolonged discussion. But you threw something else in there gratuitously and that was highly inappropriate
This is fair Bill. Knee jerk reaction to the news he was pursuing that.
Sorry for the dust up. I hate seeing threads getting devoured by politics and vitriol. I have family in Belgium as well as Germany and I was annoyed. Again, carry on.
A few sections of the vault have collapsed, but it appears to be Â
mostly intact, and the interior is definitely not a total loss. I suspect much of the stained class has survived, too. Pretty miraculous, IMO.
Wow...looks a lot better than I thought it would. I think the major question is in how much of that stone was supported by the wood that was burned away.
I am assuming the fire is completely extinguished?
it's a miracle, but I will be shocked if the stained glass is intact.
I agree with that. The heat from that blaze would have surely caused the lead pieces holding the glass in place to melt and leaving nothing to hold them in place. If that somehow held, the stress caused by the immense heat would've caused the glass to break and fall. Either way, the chances any of the stained glass survived are slim at best IMO.
It would truly be a miracle if any of it made it through that blaze based on the the pics/video I saw.
it's a miracle, but I will be shocked if the stained glass is intact.
The stained glass windows in the pitched roof structure are total losses, sadly, but I believe we'll soon hear that the stained glass windows in the main part of the church (including the iconic north rose window) will have been substantially spared.
The vault essentially acted as a firewall against the blaze of the roof structure above, saving the church below from total destruction. As the wooden roof burned, it shed much of its weight, so the vault, which is self-supporting, likely came under a reduced load. It's also made of stone, which was more resistant to thermal exposure than other building materials.
The center part of the vault that collapsed into the church likely came down with the main spire, which was reportedly 250 tons of lead and oak.
If you look at some of the images, the wooden pews in the foreground (north side) appear to be undamaged. That bodes well for the stained glass of the north rose window and the organ.
the vaults of the side aisles remained largely intact, but those of the nave are in bad shape. All of the 13th-century wooden supports are gone and the remaining stone is water-logged = very heavy nave vaults with nothing up there to hold them. It's got to be precarious.
My understanding is that the rose windows in the north and south transepts are gone, and that the apsidal windows are probably shot as well. The west wall should be okay, though. The lancet windows in the side walls probably didn't fare well, as the lead used for each of the separate panes is prone to liquify in high temperatures. Once that goes, the glass follows.
A lot of what perished was part of the 19th century reconstruction by Viollet le Duc, but the windows and wood date back 800 years.
The small rose windows in the roof structure are gone Â
these are the ones through which fire can be observed, but these are not the windows visible from inside the church. Some tweets appearing now show many of the windows remain intact. This is good news. twitter video - ( New Window )
I regularly get hate e-mail accusing me of being a Marxist and a Nazi.
Ahh the true story of “that’s German “ comes out
Sad that people have to act like jackasses during a tragedy. I’ll bet it was a 100% intentional
Quote:
account of the dude who started the downward spiral. Like, come on. No repercussions for firebombing a threat?///
It's not the first time he's tried to steer a thread in that direction, either. Must be something in the water in Marin County.
Quote:
It probably took several treasuries and many conquests to build it in the first place.. even if they could do it now, it would be highly irresponsible. Best they could do is some sort of modern homage.
Why would it be irresponsible? Cathedrals have burned down in Europe before and been rebuilt.
Once you started reacting to complaints you may have indirectly motivated and invited even more.
Steve, we've tried numerous options. It's a no-win situation for us to allow any of these discussions. Sad, but it is what it is.
I'm with Steve. Just ignore the complaints. What's the worry? Business? Losing advertisers and members?
The fact you and the moderators let the Dumb/Thin-skinners essentially control the content on BBI is a bit embarrassing.
I am seeing that stained glass may not have survived
Those are jobs, but much more than jobs, it's almost the opposite yo how we view 'work' today.
So, alongside the usual models and the bankers and the Ubers, you would have hundreds of hand stone mason's, hand carpenters, glaziers, painters both art and commercial, scultpers, weaver's, welders, and so forth, filling the bistros every night
Quote:
In comment 14387592 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
That image shows, amazingly, that as of this moment, the stone ceiling (vault) hasn't failed.
It would truly be remarkable if the interior of the cathedral is spared.
the interior is already gone. i think they are just trying to save the structure now.
I'm not certain of that, though I don't doubt there is significant damage. The "vault" is a stone structure below the roof (which was wood) and that does not appear to have failed. It forms the roof of the cathedral, above the nave, that one can see on the inside. The pitched wooden structure has burned and collapsed away but the vault seems to be holding. If that collapses, the structural integrity of the entire building will be compromised. That creates great risk of the walls collapsing inward, and the towers coming down after that. Hopefully it holds... we'll see.
That was just because you left up that thread that clearly showed jlaws thumbs
I'll be in Paris in September. How tragic. How hard it is to accept the reality and the enormity of the loss.
I'll be in Paris in September. How tragic. How hard it is to accept the reality and the enormity of the loss.
Maybe you can go pay your respects to it and let us know how far along they’ve come by then
Hitler ordered Paris destroyed. The commanding German general (Dietrich von Choltitz) disobeyed him.
If they can save the masonry walls and the two towers it will be possible to restore thd building
I predict your demise as a bbi contributor is nigh.
The stained glass has all got to be gone. That is irreplaceable.
You said "choltitz"...
...about Notre Dame turned ugly.
I mean, really?
Has all common sense and common decency gone by the board?
All of this is dependent on the frame though. It is impossible to recreate the building. But making it serviceable again in a way that reflects modern structures could be a wonderful breath of life to whats left.
Awesome. Fuck him.
Crazy
There is a lot in the scaffolding ... construction project...
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
That damn hunchback.
Not really. All I've heard is a suggestion that it was related to restoration work.
Quote:
In comment 14387723 Csonka said:
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Gfy kenny
Quote:
In comment 14387727 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14387723 Csonka said:
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Gfy kenny
Your lack of self awareness is breathtaking. Jesus Christ.
Quote:
In comment 14387727 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14387723 Csonka said:
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Gfy kenny
What part of "political threads aren't allowed" do you not understand??? What is so confusing about that policy? We're talking about the disaster/tragedy of one on the most iconic buildings/works of art on the planet and you need to chime in with something political. The PM is trying to comfort the people of France, that's all. We have absolutely no clue about the state of the structer at this point. How about you save your vitriol until the fire is actually put out. Jackass
I’m going to blame Inspector Clouseau.
I’m going to blame Inspector Clouseau.
Nah. Blame him if the Mona Lisa burns. He’s an officer of the Louvre.
Quote:
In comment 14387733 kennyd said:
Quote:
In comment 14387727 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14387723 Csonka said:
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Why? How the fuck is a PM of a major power asking for massive amounts of funding from other countries to rebuild a 12th century cathedral almost entirely akin to suggesting that they are happy it went down because now they can build a mosque in its place?
Im not making it political dipshit. You are. Europe is HURTING financially right now and now he wants them to pay for a rebuild?
Gfy kenny
What part of "political threads aren't allowed" do you not understand??? What is so confusing about that policy? We're talking about the disaster/tragedy of one on the most iconic buildings/works of art on the planet and you need to chime in with something political. The PM is trying to comfort the people of France, that's all. We have absolutely no clue about the state of the structer at this point. How about you save your vitriol until the fire is actually put out. Jackass
wow from the sounds of the last thread it must have been awesome. I'd have gotten popcorn and watched that one all day.. people actually said all that shit... hahah
Quote:
In comment 14387723 Csonka said:
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Registered April 2019.
Quote:
In comment 14387727 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14387723 Csonka said:
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Registered April 2019.
So that is an indictment on me for just deciding to sign up when Hswilek registered a year ago and kenny did a year before that? Outrageous.
My comment was targeted toward the fiscal irresponsibility of asking for help in rebuilding the thing and I guess thats too much to handle.
Quote:
In comment 14387733 kennyd said:
Quote:
In comment 14387727 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14387723 Csonka said:
Quote:
Macron already said so, and he'll request international funding.
Awesome. Fuck him.
This is the kind of shit that got the original thread deleted. WTF is wrong with you???
Registered April 2019.
So that is an indictment on me for just deciding to sign up when Hswilek registered a year ago and kenny did a year before that? Outrageous.
My comment was targeted toward the fiscal irresponsibility of asking for help in rebuilding the thing and I guess thats too much to handle.
ehhh.. let it go .. this is nowhere as interesting as someone shouting liberals want to build a mosque there are whatever it was that took that thread off the rails.. wow so sorry i missed that. sounds super entertaining.
This is fair Bill. Knee jerk reaction to the news he was pursuing that.
Sorry for the dust up. I hate seeing threads getting devoured by politics and vitriol. I have family in Belgium as well as Germany and I was annoyed. Again, carry on.
Wow...looks a lot better than I thought it would. I think the major question is in how much of that stone was supported by the wood that was burned away.
I am assuming the fire is completely extinguished?
I agree with that. The heat from that blaze would have surely caused the lead pieces holding the glass in place to melt and leaving nothing to hold them in place. If that somehow held, the stress caused by the immense heat would've caused the glass to break and fall. Either way, the chances any of the stained glass survived are slim at best IMO.
It would truly be a miracle if any of it made it through that blaze based on the the pics/video I saw.
The stained glass windows in the pitched roof structure are total losses, sadly, but I believe we'll soon hear that the stained glass windows in the main part of the church (including the iconic north rose window) will have been substantially spared.
The vault essentially acted as a firewall against the blaze of the roof structure above, saving the church below from total destruction. As the wooden roof burned, it shed much of its weight, so the vault, which is self-supporting, likely came under a reduced load. It's also made of stone, which was more resistant to thermal exposure than other building materials.
The center part of the vault that collapsed into the church likely came down with the main spire, which was reportedly 250 tons of lead and oak.
If you look at some of the images, the wooden pews in the foreground (north side) appear to be undamaged. That bodes well for the stained glass of the north rose window and the organ.
My understanding is that the rose windows in the north and south transepts are gone, and that the apsidal windows are probably shot as well. The west wall should be okay, though. The lancet windows in the side walls probably didn't fare well, as the lead used for each of the separate panes is prone to liquify in high temperatures. Once that goes, the glass follows.
A lot of what perished was part of the 19th century reconstruction by Viollet le Duc, but the windows and wood date back 800 years.
twitter video - ( New Window )