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NFT: Mets at Phillies Game 1. Thor

ZGiants98 : 4/15/2019 5:36 pm
Mets Lineup

Brandon Nimmo CF
Pete Alonso 1B
Robinson Cano 2B
Michael Conforto RF
Wilson Ramos C
Jeff McNeil LF
Amed Rosario SS
J.D. Davis 3B
Noah Syndergaard RHP

Phillies Lineup

Andrew McCutchen LF
Jean Segura SS
Bryce Harper RF
Rhys Hoskins 1B
J.T. Realmuto C
Odubel Herrera CF
Cesar Hernandez SS
Maikel Franco 3B
Aaron Nola RHP

LGM!
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RE: Familia needs to figure his shit out.  
giantsFC : 4/15/2019 11:43 pm : link
In comment 14388068 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
ASAP.


He seems past his prime. Hopefully he can reinvent himself like so many good relievers do. Itís such a an up and down position year to year.

Isnít Swartzyk doing ok in Seattle this year?
RE: RE: RE: As long as Kapler is the Phillies manager  
giantsFC : 4/15/2019 11:44 pm : link
In comment 14388067 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14388063 giantsFC said:


Quote:


In comment 14388057 dep026 said:


Quote:


They will never be a threat. By far and away the worst manager in sports. Itís not even close.



Mickey Callaway: ďhold my bee..*drops beer during transition*



Itís not even close. Iíll throw in our top prospect if it meant you took Kapler.


Both teams weak link is their manager. Scary times.
RE: RE: Familia needs to figure his shit out.  
ZGiants98 : 4/15/2019 11:47 pm : link
In comment 14388070 giantsFC said:
Quote:
In comment 14388068 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


ASAP.



He seems past his prime. Hopefully he can reinvent himself like so many good relievers do. Itís such a an up and down position year to year.

Isnít Swartzyk doing ok in Seattle this year?


I thought Swarzak was hurt. Familia is still throwing 97s up there. The stuff is there. He just has not control of his pitches. We've seen this from him before for stretches but it's really really really bad right now. He can't locate shit.
I'm w/ yalls on Diaz  
ChaChing : 4/15/2019 11:47 pm : link
But right or wrong they said today & a few times this season he always started clean innings for 3 outs for SEA and NYM would follow suit

Given that, it's my further question about Kimbrel, as I've read he's used the same. If so is he an option esp at a high $? That's if he's open to a non-closer role, as they'd be walking back some conversations they had w/ Diaz to this point you'd think...
Actually maybe not  
ZGiants98 : 4/15/2019 11:48 pm : link
4 innings for Swarzak 0 ERA. Im sure he's going to have a fine year in Seattle actually. He was an injured mess last year.
RE: I'm w/ yalls on Diaz  
ZGiants98 : 4/15/2019 11:49 pm : link
In comment 14388074 ChaChing said:
Quote:
But right or wrong they said today & a few times this season he always started clean innings for 3 outs for SEA and NYM would follow suit

Given that, it's my further question about Kimbrel, as I've read he's used the same. If so is he an option esp at a high $? That's if he's open to a non-closer role, as they'd be walking back some conversations they had w/ Diaz to this point you'd think...


Yeah that's the biggest question for me. Is Kimbrel coming here to be a SU guy? Not sure he would even go for that.
So apparently Mickey just said no 4 out saves this season  
moespree : 4/16/2019 12:02 am : link
He said Diaz won't ever pitch more than three outs according to DiComo.
RE: and Mr. Double Play Travis d'Arnaud is on deck  
madgiantscow009 : 4/16/2019 12:04 am : link
In comment 14388029 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
ugh. It almost looks like he tries to pull the ball to the shortstop sometimes


it is human nature to aim projectiles at things. travis has strong hunting instincts.
RE: So apparently Mickey just said no 4 out saves this season  
ChaChing : 4/16/2019 12:16 am : link
In comment 14388082 moespree said:
Quote:
He said Diaz won't ever pitch more than three outs according to DiComo.

I wonder if this was on Diaz or his agent's insistence (if not part of his contract?). Last year especially, Mickey talked about versatility and the ability for pitchers to go multiple innings. But now w/ Diaz that's not even an option

Still I would consider bringing Diaz in the 8th case by case, vs the heart of the lineup for example then trotting out Familia or another RP in the 9th even w/ ED limited to 3 outs. If they aren't bringing in reinforcements, the only short term option is more efficient usage with what's available. Not sure this would have helped yet this season, but hopefully MC has it in his arsenal
RE: So apparently Mickey just said no 4 out saves this season  
Vanzetti : 4/16/2019 12:25 am : link
In comment 14388082 moespree said:
Quote:
He said Diaz won't ever pitch more than three outs according to DiComo.


Mickey says a lot of things and then does the opposite.

He also makes claims he later contradicts.

So, I would not put much stock in anything he says. Maybe he'll use Avilan for a four out save.
Familia's work lately is disturbing  
allstarjim : 4/16/2019 1:22 am : link
Again, once again...behind in the count throwing off+speed shit. Are you a junk ball pitcher or a power pitcher? Throw the fastball, get strikes, get ahead in the count. If you give up a homerun so be it. But what he's doing now isn't serving him well.
RE: RE: So apparently Mickey just said no 4 out saves this season  
giantsFC : 4/16/2019 2:15 am : link
In comment 14388089 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 14388082 moespree said:


Quote:


He said Diaz won't ever pitch more than three outs according to DiComo.



Mickey says a lot of things and then does the opposite.

He also makes claims he later contradicts.

So, I would not put much stock in anything he says. Maybe he'll use Avilan for a four out save.


So true about Callaway
A little added info postgame:  
ChaChing : 4/16/2019 3:16 am : link
Article 1: JDG not tipping pitches
- JDG has been battling sickness for about a week
- JD Davis will begin taking fly balls in LF

Article 2: Game Review
- Diaz says he's ready for whatever they need even if 3+ outs. MC, Eiland & BVW all parrot the idea this is what he did b4 so they will keep to it for now. Fwiw MC says if it were the playoffs it'd be different...
The morning obligation  
dep026 : 4/16/2019 7:11 am : link
Kapler fucking sucks.
Familia has  
Ron Johnson : 4/16/2019 7:42 am : link
No idea where the ball is going.
Thatís a tough one to figure out.
Really  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 8:17 am : link
dislike this announcement Diaz will never appear in 4 out save situations. Seidler makes a great point... what happens if "God forbid" you make the playoffs or need 1 game to make the playoffs? put him in a situation where he hasn't done it all year (aka pitch, cool off and then pitch again)? Dumb
I thought the whole Callaway appeal  
pjcas18 : 4/16/2019 8:20 am : link
was he wasn't going to live by rigid bullpen roles and the best pitcher comes in to face the other teams best hitter in the right situation and roles were more fluid

Seems like a lot of people were fooled by the appeal of Callaway.
RE: Really  
Ira : 4/16/2019 8:26 am : link
In comment 14388189 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
dislike this announcement Diaz will never appear in 4 out save situations. Seidler makes a great point... what happens if "God forbid" you make the playoffs or need 1 game to make the playoffs? put him in a situation where he hasn't done it all year (aka pitch, cool off and then pitch again)? Dumb


Well they did say that if it were the playoffs, it would be different. I have to think that if we were close to making the playoffs and there was a 4 out save situation, they'd revisit that decision. What you do in mid April isn't necessarily what you do in late August or September.
RE: I thought the whole Callaway appeal  
Metnut : 4/16/2019 8:32 am : link
In comment 14388194 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
was he wasn't going to live by rigid bullpen roles and the best pitcher comes in to face the other teams best hitter in the right situation and roles were more fluid

Seems like a lot of people were fooled by the appeal of Callaway.


Callaway the manager has turned out to be completely different than the guy I thought we were hiring. It seems like half of his quotes annoy the fuck out of me.

Didn't get to watch much of last night's game, but looks like they pulled out a gritty and important early season road win to take over first place. It seems like MLB hitters are adjusting to velocity better than ever, so Thor, DeGrom and Wheeler are all going to have to locate their secondary stuff to have success.

Familia is concerning, but some analytics seem to suggest that Gsellmen's stuff might've rebounded a bit closer to his 2016 form.
RE: RE: Really  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 8:41 am : link
In comment 14388199 Ira said:
Quote:
In comment 14388189 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


dislike this announcement Diaz will never appear in 4 out save situations. Seidler makes a great point... what happens if "God forbid" you make the playoffs or need 1 game to make the playoffs? put him in a situation where he hasn't done it all year (aka pitch, cool off and then pitch again)? Dumb



Well they did say that if it were the playoffs, it would be different. I have to think that if we were close to making the playoffs and there was a 4 out save situation, they'd revisit that decision. What you do in mid April isn't necessarily what you do in late August or September.


Ira,
That's my point.. you want him in a situation he hasn't been in all year God forbid we need 1 win in September vs. The Nationals? Every win matters and why let teams know hes unavailable?
And  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 8:42 am : link
Yeah Mickey is a poor manager. He's gone if they don't make the playoffs 100%
Worried About Sept Now?  
Samiam : 4/16/2019 9:11 am : link
I donít think you need to worry about the playoffs or the run to the playoffs on April 16. Mets are in first place, enjoy it. As for Diaz, even if what is being said is true, and who knows, a lot can change in 6 months. Right now, every manager is trying who can do what. If someone is roster, you use them until you get rid of them
TDA  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 9:15 am : link
has had 3 successful bunts in his professional career (including minors). Things like that are why Mickey is a very poor manager beyond what he says.
RE: TDA  
dep026 : 4/16/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14388246 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has had 3 successful bunts in his professional career (including minors). Things like that are why Mickey is a very poor manager beyond what he says.


Kapler would have doubled steamed with two slow guys.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 9:20 am : link

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
I donít blame the Mets for protecting Diaz. In fact I credit them for that. But if they are going to be so careful with Diaz, they should sign Kimbrel.
Stealed  
dep026 : 4/16/2019 9:22 am : link
..
Yup  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 9:22 am : link
metspolice.com
@metspolice

2h
What happened to Mickeyís New Culture (2018) where guys donít have set roles? That wasnít a stupid thing a rookie manager said that the media lapped up is it?
RE: TDA  
Mike in NY : 4/16/2019 9:23 am : link
In comment 14388246 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has had 3 successful bunts in his professional career (including minors). Things like that are why Mickey is a very poor manager beyond what he says.


What's more perplexing is that deGrom was not available out of the bullpen and because he is a former shortstop you could butcher boy and other things with him. Would have been better to use him in that role and saved TdA for a more important position.
RE: RE: TDA  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 9:26 am : link
In comment 14388261 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14388246 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has had 3 successful bunts in his professional career (including minors). Things like that are why Mickey is a very poor manager beyond what he says.



What's more perplexing is that deGrom was not available out of the bullpen and because he is a former shortstop you could butcher boy and other things with him. Would have been better to use him in that role and saved TdA for a more important position.


Great point. Look, I disagree STRONGLY with how much Mickey wants to bunt but if you want to lean on that you can't expect poor/inexperienced guys to do it well just because you practice it in ST. TDA has been a professional for 13 seasons, missed part of ST, lets just accept bunting with him isn't something you do.
Like  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 9:28 am : link
I said, every game matters. You miss the playoffs by one game it could be decisions like this


Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO

36m
He was going to pitch Drew Gagnon against the Phillies 3-4-5 in a tie game instead of using Edwin Diaz.
It's often said pos. coaches in mlb are overrated - Mickey is proof  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 10:08 am : link
the reasons many liked his hire in the first place:

1. he was regarded as a "top pitching coach"
2. he was rumored to be more modern + more analytics oriented in his approach
3. there weren't many other appealing proven candidates, so he was perceived as an upside candidate
4. Francona vouched for him pretty strongly, Cleveland results seemed good

As it has turned out his handling of the pitching staff has been god awful almost top to bottom. Perhaps he deserves some level of credit for JDG finding another level and Wheeler's 2nd half. Or was the former already on track and the latter just finally stayed healthy? His "modern approach" has been inconsistent and downright random from his batting orders to his gaffes - from batting out of order, to saying Mcneil couldn't play 3rd, to saying he liked a flexible BP and now going back on that.

In the end what's taken for granted with MLB managers/coaches is that it seems like a simple job because it's an individual performance sport. Pitchers pitch well or they don't, hitters hit or they don't. Mickey's pitchers pitched well in Cleveland. But like everything experience matters and Callaway just doesn't seem to have enough experience to avoid making big mistakes on a very regular basis. That is the risk with any first time anything. A fatal flaw that can only be exposed once the lights are on. He could still improve but we haven't seen much progress from him yet - hopefully as time goes on Riggleman will be able to help him.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2019 10:20 am : link
I actually think bringing Gagnon in before Diaz is defensible  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 10:34 am : link
it's rolling the dice for sure, but you don't want to be stuck going multiple innings with Diaz, and if that's the case Gagnon has to pitch no matter what. So yes you'd prefer him vs. the bottom of the lineup, but it's not like you can avoid him altogether and the phillies still have a good bottom of the lineup so it's a matter of degree.

Not pitching Diaz in the 8th made no sense however. It would have made more sense to pitch him there and let Gsellman try for the save. That was the highest leverage situation of the season to this point. It was 1 out that may have meant a win or a loss in the standings.

Also I think it's kind of messed up the way they are willing to shuffle Familia into a new role with apparently little consideration to acknowledge trying to make that adjustment easier for him while at the same time being so rigid in how they use Diaz. Gammons had a good article on the athletic yesterday about how bad all bullpens around baseball have been so far this year and 1 of the quotes in it sort of jumped out to me:

Quote:
ďYouíre always looking for elite guys,Ē says Rizzo, ďbut in todayís game it is sometimes the case that a clean ninth inning is the easiest role. That guy knows what he has. Heís not getting up and down. Today, you have to have elite guys who pitch in situations, the way Andrew Miller has done so well. But even they can go through tough stretches. Look at Trevor Rosenthal for us. He has 121 career saves. He came off Tommy John surgery and is throwing 95 to 102 with and 88-94 mph slider. We thought ó and still think ó heíll be an ideal guy getting us to Sean Doolittle. But the poor guy has taken time to feel comfortable again and went nearly three weeks without recording an out. Weíre confident heíll get that feel back. But it shows that what you think is a strength when you leave spring training can have a rocky road.Ē

You can basically sub the names "Familia" and "Diaz" in that sentence.
RE: It's often said pos. coaches in mlb are overrated - Mickey is proof  
giantsFC : 4/16/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14388318 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
the reasons many liked his hire in the first place:

1. he was regarded as a "top pitching coach"
2. he was rumored to be more modern + more analytics oriented in his approach
3. there weren't many other appealing proven candidates, so he was perceived as an upside candidate
4. Francona vouched for him pretty strongly, Cleveland results seemed good

As it has turned out his handling of the pitching staff has been god awful almost top to bottom. Perhaps he deserves some level of credit for JDG finding another level and Wheeler's 2nd half. Or was the former already on track and the latter just finally stayed healthy? His "modern approach" has been inconsistent and downright random from his batting orders to his gaffes - from batting out of order, to saying Mcneil couldn't play 3rd, to saying he liked a flexible BP and now going back on that.

In the end what's taken for granted with MLB managers/coaches is that it seems like a simple job because it's an individual performance sport. Pitchers pitch well or they don't, hitters hit or they don't. Mickey's pitchers pitched well in Cleveland. But like everything experience matters and Callaway just doesn't seem to have enough experience to avoid making big mistakes on a very regular basis. That is the risk with any first time anything. A fatal flaw that can only be exposed once the lights are on. He could still improve but we haven't seen much progress from him yet - hopefully as time goes on Riggleman will be able to help him.


Spot on.

Also from above post about Callaway saying they had to use Gagnon for 6 innings..didnít they have Vargas too? Guy only pitched .2 innings.
Callawayn says a lot of idiot things thst seems like he canít see ahead of their implications.

Or is he just this smart and fooling us all?
RE: RE: It's often said pos. coaches in mlb are overrated - Mickey is proof  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14388358 giantsFC said:
Quote:

Or is he just this smart and fooling us all?

Don't think it's this.
Ok last night's shit show is behind us.  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 10:53 am : link
New day and Matz has been pitching well. We are in first place in a tough division and have mostly played our division and have faced a lot of top pitching this year. This team also isnt close to firing on all cylinders. Most of our pitching should rebound eventually.

Some highlights and items to really be excited about. Jeff fucking McNeil and Edwin Diaz. McNeil is slick as hell at 3B. Might be why they are considering Davis out in LF. Speaking of Davis, while I expected him to hit lefties, he's hitting righties too. He also has a great approach. Nimmo is back! Conforto is red hot. I still feel like Cano isnt there but he's very close.

Lots of positives. Lets take 2 of 3 in this series on the road again.
After a shit start  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 10:55 am : link
Nimmo's wRC+ is up to 127 already. uh... that was fast.
RE: After a shit start  
Metnut : 4/16/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14388386 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Nimmo's wRC+ is up to 127 already. uh... that was fast.


I'm still concerned by the Ks, but glad that the power is still showing in 2019. We really have some nice offensive depth.
RE: RE: After a shit start  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14388414 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14388386 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Nimmo's wRC+ is up to 127 already. uh... that was fast.



I'm still concerned by the Ks, but glad that the power is still showing in 2019. We really have some nice offensive depth.


I mean... most guys K a lot in a slump. He can't erase them. They are what they are. At the end of the year they should average out and be around where he was last year. Seems like his approach is back now and he's walking and waiting for his pitches again and that's awesome for the Mets.
Some of the offense by our youngsters is absurd.  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 11:16 am : link
Conforto wRC+ 158
Peter Alonso wRC+ 204
Jeff McNeil wRC+ 172
Dom Smith wRC+ 182
JD Davis wRC+ 155
Brandon Nimmo wRC+ 127

Rosario is struggling around 89 but thats not awful.
Iím interested what we do with Davis  
CMicks3110 : 4/16/2019 11:19 am : link
In my mind, he should be playing everyday at 3B. He looks really good.
RE: Iím interested what we do with Davis  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14388440 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
In my mind, he should be playing everyday at 3B. He looks really good.


UZR and DRS are a mile apart right now. That's usually not the case as they both use the BIS system to calculate defense. Im going to need a bigger to sample to see where those normalize. If you looked at UZR, he's fine there. DRS? Disaster. Need a bigger sample.

Offensively? Yeah, he looks like a stud.
Frazier is going to mess things up  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 11:29 am : link
Luckily, Mickey saying today Frazier, Davis, and McNeil will share playing time with the latter two both getting time in LF.

I can live with that if it means Lagares/Broxton are moving to the bench permanently.

Obviously as we learned  
pjcas18 : 4/16/2019 11:34 am : link
painfully last year, standings/record on April 16th is meaningless.

However, last year this time (in my mind at least) with the Mets fast start, just about everything went right. Especially the bullpen. Yes, some starters had slow starts, but for the most part everything went right wrt pitching.

This year, the Mets are in 1st place with the 2nd worst team ERA in the NL and not a lot has gone right (from a pitching standpoint).

the offense is doing fine, not unexpectedly fine, but they're doing fine. Some notorious slow starters started out slow, like Cano. and Lowrie hasn't made an appearance yet. But Alonso, McNeil, Conforto, etc. all good starts.


If the pitching straightens out there is a lot to be optimistic about. Because it's not like the offense is playing over their heads.

Yeah I don't think anybody's bragging about  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 11:39 am : link
The Mets running away with the division because they are in first place by half a game in mid April... Like you said though, unlike last year, this team isnt close to playing at its best. Actually, the team strength heading in has been laughably and uncharacteristically bad. Definitely bodes well long term.
One surprising thing I wasn't expecting  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 11:42 am : link
Ramos's defense has sucked. He may have a decent arm throwing out runners but he's been a lead balloon back there. He doesnt frame pitches well and he drops seemingly 5-10 pitches a night. Very frustrating

TDA, in comparison, looks much better IMO defensively. TDA always framed pitches well, but now after finally fixing his arm, he seems to be throwing better as well.

Very disappointed in Ramos though.
Jon Morosi  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2019 11:54 am : link
Says Kimbrel is close to picking a team to sign with.
Well this got ugly  
dep026 : 4/16/2019 7:40 pm : link
Fast
Game over  
Rob in Rockaway : 4/16/2019 7:42 pm : link
Hockey time
The rotation forgot to get their Vargas vaccinations  
Jim in Fairfax : 4/17/2019 12:38 am : link
Now itís too late. Hope they build an immunity fast.
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