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The Cardinals have to tip their hand before the draft starts

Britt in VA : 4/16/2019 12:00 pm
right?

And I'm saying this in reference to Kyler Murray moreso than Josh Rosen as it relates to the Giants.

The second the Cardinals turn in that draft card, if it is indeed Murray, Rosen's value has has to be slashed in half of what it is this week and early next, right? Because everybody will then definitively know that Rosen is on the block and they will take what they can get.

IMO, if Rosen is not traded prior to the start of the draft, I think that means they are not taking Murray and the Giants need to be prepared for that scenario if Murray is their guy, and should have two potential trade packages ready for both SF and NYJ.
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RE: Rosen's value remains as is  
Jim in Tampa : 4/16/2019 1:14 pm : link
In comment 14388572 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
as long as there are 2+ teams bidding on him. This is still a QB starved league, and the price to get Rosen if you like him is going to be cheap in the grand scheme of things.

^^^^
It's this and it has always been this.

If multiple teams are interested Rosen he will be traded at MARKET VALUE (whatever that is). The timing (as in before or during the draft) is irrelevant.

I've used this analogy before, but if you had no other choice but to sell your home immediately, and you only had one bidder, then you'd have to sell at below market price.

But if multiple bidders are interested, the fact that you had to sell immediately would not affect the sale price. Your home would sell at market price.

You have to consider the time factor  
Rjanyg : 4/16/2019 1:16 pm : link
Dave Te Thomas has said as much that NYG has an offer on the table for Rosen, pick 37. That is the starting point and the seed has been planted.

I will assume that there is a timeline attached to this offer.
I don't think DG wants to be on the clock at pick 6 or 17 and have the Cardinals come calling.

Ideally, You know when AZ picks Murray that you have a deal in place to trade for Rosen so you can focus on the other picks you need to make.

I think it works best for both teams to have this hammered out at the beginning of the draft. AZ gets value and NYG gets their QB, allowing the 1st round picks to go to the defense.
I still  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/16/2019 1:29 pm : link
think Rosen gets traded between Thursday night and Friday next week. Let the first round play out and then in the overnight re-assess. Teams that didn't come away with the QB they were looking for will be able to re-evaluate at that point. Feels like to me Rosen for the Giants is only an option as a back up plan if they can't land Lock / Jones at 17, but still don't know if they even value him enough for the 2nd round pick. That's when the overnight between rounds will become a selling game to see if the Cards can drum up interest and get the Giants to up the ante and offer that 2nd round pick. I'm pretty sure if 37 was really on the table he'd be a Giant already, but they would rather see if they can land a Lock / Jones at 17 and then maybe reassess after that.
Yeah, I would think that if DG does indeed  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2019 1:29 pm : link
have #37 on the table (with possible room for further negotiation) it would have to come with a timeline. That is, we need your answer BEFORE draft day so that we can organize our board accordingly when our turn comes..
RE: You have to consider the time factor  
Jim in Tampa : 4/16/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14388644 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Dave Te Thomas has said as much that NYG has an offer on the table for Rosen, pick 37. That is the starting point and the seed has been planted.

I will assume that there is a timeline attached to this offer.
I don't think DG wants to be on the clock at pick 6 or 17 and have the Cardinals come calling.

Ideally, You know when AZ picks Murray that you have a deal in place to trade for Rosen so you can focus on the other picks you need to make.

I think it works best for both teams to have this hammered out at the beginning of the draft. AZ gets value and NYG gets their QB, allowing the 1st round picks to go to the defense.

I agree for the most part.

I think if and when AZ starts entertaining offers for Rosen they will talk to a number of teams and find out what each team's best and presumably final offer is. However, it's always possible that a team could up their offer on draft day, based on how the draft is going.

For example, Wash, Denver, Cincy, Miami or the NYG may be SOL if the QB they wanted was taken when their pick comes up and at that point they could up their offer for Rosen. If they really want Rosen they might also have to up their offer if one of the other teams does.

But teams aren't going to LOWER their offers right after AZ picks Murray, because they would still be in a competitive bidding situation for Rosen.
I just think, if the Cardinals don't take Murray....  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2019 1:37 pm : link
the Giants will. I think Murray will be a Giant if he gets past the Cardinals at #1.
RE: I just think, if the Cardinals don't take Murray....  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/16/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14388690 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
the Giants will. I think Murray will be a Giant if he gets past the Cardinals at #1.


It's so hard to tell because while we can speculate Shurmur loves him, what about DG? The Giants love guys that check boxes and DG is a Giants man through and through. Also, I'm really curious how his interviews went. He didn't come off well in public interviews at all. Kind of came across as a dim bulb. Weird we haven't heard about the wonderlics being leaked yet.
RE: RE: You have to consider the time factor  
Rjanyg : 4/16/2019 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14388680 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14388644 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


Dave Te Thomas has said as much that NYG has an offer on the table for Rosen, pick 37. That is the starting point and the seed has been planted.

I will assume that there is a timeline attached to this offer.
I don't think DG wants to be on the clock at pick 6 or 17 and have the Cardinals come calling.

Ideally, You know when AZ picks Murray that you have a deal in place to trade for Rosen so you can focus on the other picks you need to make.

I think it works best for both teams to have this hammered out at the beginning of the draft. AZ gets value and NYG gets their QB, allowing the 1st round picks to go to the defense.


I agree for the most part.

I think if and when AZ starts entertaining offers for Rosen they will talk to a number of teams and find out what each team's best and presumably final offer is. However, it's always possible that a team could up their offer on draft day, based on how the draft is going.

For example, Wash, Denver, Cincy, Miami or the NYG may be SOL if the QB they wanted was taken when their pick comes up and at that point they could up their offer for Rosen. If they really want Rosen they might also have to up their offer if one of the other teams does.

But teams aren't going to LOWER their offers right after AZ picks Murray, because they would still be in a competitive bidding situation for Rosen.


Jim, I have to believe DG has a value on Rosen just like he had a value on OBJ. With OBJ they had no time factor to consider. With the scenario of AZ drafting Murray, the Giants are only 5 picks after them and the Rosen situation has a factor to even a small degree on who they pick and when they pick them. Maybe NYG likes Lock and will take him as plan B to the Rosen offer of 37. Lock may not be available at 17 with Denver rumored to like him. DG may decide to get him at 6 and then Rosen will go to another team with one less bidder.

Offers will drop as bidders get their other options.

Time is a factor and the timing will change the value.
Just a gut feeling.  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2019 1:43 pm : link
I think he's their guy. If they don't get him, they won't go QB in the first round.
RE: The NFL doesn't want the Cardinals announcing  
Mr. Bungle : 4/16/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14388600 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
a potential Rosen trade until the draft starts. If it's announced in advance, it will hurt ratings.

That seems very unlikely.
RE: RE: RE: Lynch:  
Matt in SGS : 4/16/2019 1:45 pm : link
Quote:
In comment 14388615 Britt in VA said:




My read was that Lynch didn't want to part with #2 without getting #6 back in return. You can't just trade away the #2 overall pick for a player as a young, 1st time GM. That #2 pick has way too much value to your franchise vs. a 95 million dollar receiver who has missed significant time due to injury.


That seems to be 100% the issue. Hence the Giants telling them they needed 2 first rounders.

Quote:
“On Odell we were very much in that, we had been in it,” Lynch said. “I think ironically the fact that we had the No. 2 pick made it more difficult because they wanted that badly. They wanted two No. 1s and we weren’t willing to part with that, that’s too valuable of a pick, even for a player of his magnitude. So we tried to come up with creative different ways to get it done and it didn’t work out so you move on.”


For the Giants, swapping picks wasn't going to do it. They wanted 2 first rounders this year. That was the starting point. If I had to guess, the Niners offered the Giants their 2nd rounder and possibly a #1 in 2020. Giants weren't interested. In lieu of having another first round pick, the Niners had to work with their #2 overall. And odds are they probably told the Giants they would trade up into the late first round with their 2nd rounder and give them that pick. And furthermore, the Giants probably said they need to give them a pick in the middle of the first round.

And honestly, in order for the Niners to move up, they'd have to give up their 2nd and perhaps a 3rd as well, and the Giants wanted that third.

Too many moving parts. Too complex. The Browns gave Gettleman exactly what he needed with no frills, and the added benefit they already were working things out around Vernon and Zietler.

The Giants need several players. As great as getting the #2 over all is. I think the Giants will get more benefit picking guys at 6 and 17. The Niners were 1 year too early. If this was 2020, and you had those 3 QBs coming out, the Giants probably make that deal.
I'm not sure Rosen's value goes down  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/16/2019 1:53 pm : link
First, it doesn't seem like it's all that high right now anyway. And if they're entertaining trading Rosen, it's for one of two reasons (or a combination of the two): either they don't think he's worth keeping, or it's because they're drafting Murray. Obviously, the latter is far less damaging to Rosen's trade value, right? So the best case scenario for the Cardinals to recoup as much value as possible involves conceding that they're drafting Murray anyway, doesn't it?

To the extent that taking Murray at #1 overall is implied by trading Rosen anyway, how does Murray actually being drafted by Arizona vs assumed that he will be drafted by Arizona change Rosen's value in any meaningful way? How much did Sam Bradford's value drop when the Eagles drafted Carson Wentz?
I would have to see the Giants draft Murray to believe it  
Go Terps : 4/16/2019 1:55 pm : link
It would just be such a departure from what they're used to. I'd be surprised if he was sitting there at #6 and they drafted him.
The Giants probably didn't trade with the 49ers because  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/16/2019 2:00 pm : link
they wouldn't part with #2 and were looking to deal a 2020 first rounder. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that pick is in the 20's next year. I think they are the team to make a crazy turnaround this year. Absolutely why Lynch wouldn't part with two. Gets a defensive playmaker this year and the team should be very good.
RE: I would have to see the Giants draft Murray to believe it  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/16/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14388717 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It would just be such a departure from what they're used to. I'd be surprised if he was sitting there at #6 and they drafted him.


Right? To me, I bet Shurmur loves him, but DG? I'd have a hard time buying that.
RE: I would have to see the Giants draft Murray to believe it  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14388717 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It would just be such a departure from what they're used to. I'd be surprised if he was sitting there at #6 and they drafted him.


What departure? DG has only had the ‘decision’ reins here for ONE year. There is no departure in play here
I said all along..  
FranchiseQB : 4/16/2019 2:06 pm : link
I thought there was a real possibility that the Cards were keeping Rosen and trying to trade the #1. There were many reports they wanted to deal the pick up to and through the combine. Then after the combine they started saying they were interested in Murray.

I still think it appears they will take Murray and eventually deal Rosen, and I don't think waiting to deal Rosen necessarily affects his trade value.

But buckle up, if we don't get a definitive word about Zona's intentions there is a real chance Murray falls into the Giants' lap.
BB 56  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/16/2019 2:07 pm : link
It is hard to tell because he has never been a major decision maker in QB selection, but he is a Giants man. What we know about the Giants is they like guys that check certain boxes and Kyler definitely doesn't check a couple of those.
RE: I starting to have this strange gut feeling....  
darren in pdx : 4/16/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14388535 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
that Murray is the guy for the Giants.


If the Cards don’t take him I don’t care what they have to give up to get him. Murray is my #1 personally, if not him I just hope they get good players.
All I am saying in regard to the potential of a trade of Rosen  
Rjanyg : 4/16/2019 2:47 pm : link
is that if you treat him like another player that is available you place a value on him. If you are looking at other QB's in the draft then you have your big board set but the problem with Rosen is you don't know what his cost will be.

Therefore, a cost must be determined by the Giants ahead of time and a timeline as to when the trade will be done mainly because it alters the plan of the 2 1st round picks.

Arizona can wait but it may force teams to go in another directions. The sooner the trade is agreed to the better for all involved.
re: departure  
JonC : 4/16/2019 2:47 pm : link
Giants are known to have some positional must have requirement in terms of physical size, and have stuck to them for years. KM is far below the mark for QBs.
BB56  
Go Terps : 4/16/2019 2:51 pm : link
Gettleman is one of 6 voices weighing in on the next Giants' QB:

Mara
Tisch
Gettleman
Chris Mara
Abrams
Shurmur

And I wouldn't discount Accorsi being allowed to weigh in.

The next Giants' QB isn't going to be Gettleman's call alone.
Murray to Cards is done IMO  
AcesUp : 4/16/2019 2:58 pm : link
You don't make the bold move of firing a coaching staff after one year and the bolder move of hiring a guy like Kingsbury without going all in on the guy. If your left field hire wants to make a left field play, you let him at this point. This has been going on for 3+ months now, I can't imagine them fast and loose with their 2nd year QBs confidence just to create some sort of trade market for the top pick. Not if they thought they were keeping him at least.

The draft will be aired on ABC for the first time, I imagine this has been a done deal and the NFL is doing its best to create some intrigue here. The cards are simply waiting out what they probably see as a weak trade market for Rosen.
I'm pretty sure AZ  
fkap : 4/16/2019 3:12 pm : link
and the league knows if AZ is taking Murray and if Rosen is on the block. Teams may have low balled AZ on an offer even though Rosen isn't officially available. In this scenario, his stock can't get much lower.

Some of the teams may be waiting to see how the draft shakes out. If a QB they want gets taken before them, they might get nervous about losing out on Rosen as plan B and up the offer.

It seems obvious no one is getting into a bidding war pre draft and no one is offering a healthy trade package (or that package is contingent on the preferred draft prospect becoming unavailable). Once things begin to sort out, that's when any bidding war is going to happen and teams start upping their weak offers. Or, no war happens and it becomes taking the weak offer or keeping him.
They need to trade MRosen BEFORE they draft Murray...  
Torrag : 4/16/2019 3:16 pm : link
...or they lose a chunk of their leverage. Not all of it as there are likely to be multiple teams interested in acquiring him at varying levels of compensation.

To maximize their potential return though they cannot wait until after the #1 pick is made...imo.
They have a decent amount invested in Rosen....  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2019 3:17 pm : link
A 1st, 3rd, and 5th round pick.

That's a lot to just trash after a single season.
They're gonna move Rosen  
JonC : 4/16/2019 3:19 pm : link
I wonder how accurate Te's info on NYG making an offer is.
RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2019 3:19 pm : link
In comment 14388809 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman is one of 6 voices weighing in on the next Giants' QB:

Mara
Tisch
Gettleman
Chris Mara
Abrams
Shurmur

And I wouldn't discount Accorsi being allowed to weigh in.

The next Giants' QB isn't going to be Gettleman's call alone.


There’s a war room. Opinions may be offered, but DG makes the final decision. That is how it has always worked with the Giants. That’s how it most likely will always work
RE: re: departure  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2019 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14388807 JonC said:
Quote:
Giants are known to have some positional must have requirement in terms of physical size, and have stuck to them for years. KM is far below the mark for QBs.


That was before DG, so that’s no longer germane, UNLESS DG ascribes to that
BB56  
Go Terps : 4/16/2019 3:22 pm : link
I'm skeptical as to whether Gettleman will override the voices around him if it comes to that. Remember, he wanted to trade Beckham last year but ended up giving him a massive contract.

I think the Giants' front office decisions are very much made by committee, with the big ones needing John Mara's stamp of approval. I don't see the Giants drafting Murray or any other QB if Mara doesn't OK it.
RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14388875 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I'm skeptical as to whether Gettleman will override the voices around him if it comes to that. Remember, he wanted to trade Beckham last year but ended up giving him a massive contract.

I think the Giants' front office decisions are very much made by committee, with the big ones needing John Mara's stamp of approval. I don't see the Giants drafting Murray or any other QB if Mara doesn't OK it.


For a contract as big as OBJ’s, no doubt, but we’re talking about the draft war room. I have never heard of Mara/Tisch/Abrams ever weighing in on who to draft

RE: RE: re: departure  
JonC : 4/16/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14388870 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14388807 JonC said:


Quote:


Giants are known to have some positional must have requirement in terms of physical size, and have stuck to them for years. KM is far below the mark for QBs.



That was before DG, so that’s no longer germane, UNLESS DG ascribes to that


Semantics. It is part of their philosophy, this is a sport of huge men.
RE: RE: RE: re: departure  
GFAN52 : 4/16/2019 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14388883 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14388870 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14388807 JonC said:


Quote:


Giants are known to have some positional must have requirement in terms of physical size, and have stuck to them for years. KM is far below the mark for QBs.



That was before DG, so that’s no longer germane, UNLESS DG ascribes to that



Semantics. It is part of their philosophy, this is a sport of huge men.


A sport of Giant men.
BB56 I disagree about the final decision coming to the GM  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/16/2019 3:29 pm : link
on QB. The last few we drafted this high had the support of the coach and ownership as well. Ownership has final say on all 1st round picks and it is why we won't see any guys with major character concerns or don't fit what they want in character.
RE: BB56 I disagree about the final decision coming to the GM  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2019 3:34 pm : link
In comment 14388892 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
on QB. The last few we drafted this high had the support of the coach and ownership as well. Ownership has final say on all 1st round picks and it is why we won't see any guys with major character concerns or don't fit what they want in character.


Input as to opinion yes. Sure, a whole organization is and should get involved vis a vis character issues, but that’s all settled once they’re in the war room the days of the draft. At that point, it’s DG, imv
RE: They're gonna move Rosen  
Rjanyg : 4/16/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14388864 JonC said:
Quote:
I wonder how accurate Te's info on NYG making an offer is.


I hear you Jon. He is based in Arizona and seems to be locked into what is going on. He seemed firm on Murray to AZ and Rosen to be moved, and the NYG offer of 37.
Quarterback hell must be freezing over...  
the mike : 4/16/2019 5:15 pm : link
I have always thought of Britt as a sensible voice of reason during the Giants seven years in the championship wilderness... So I am shocked by his leading the charge against sensibility with this post... And so I must protest...

First, you don't win NFL championships with shiny objects... We finally got rid of the shiniest of objects who led our team on a winding and excruciating path to nowhere... Have we not learned our lesson? Or the lessons of successful quarterbacks like RGIII and Carson Wentz? Or unsuccessful quarterbacks like Johnny Football?

And second, since Eli was drafted in 2004, he is among less than a handful of top ten draftees who have won a super bowl (which include guys like Reggie Bush, BJ Raji and Jerod Mayo)... Why? In part, it is because bad teams are drafting them. But more importantly, individuals simply don't have the same impact in football as other sports. Yes, LT had a profound impact on the sport and pushed the Giants over the championship goal line twice, but those were very good Giant teams. And the game today is much different...

All of this seems to be stemming from this completely irrelevant narrative of the ills of being in quarterback hell... there is only one hell in football (and all sports for that matter)... And that is championship hell... Who cares if teams like the Chiefs, Rams and Colts are dwelling in blissful quarterback heaven but remain in championship hell? I'll take an above average quarterback and a championship over championship-less teams led by Mahomes, Goff and Luck....

So the only sensible path today is continuing on the very prudent path that Gettleman has put the team on over the past year. And that is to rebuild the Giants into A BALANCED TEAM! One that scores AND defends!!!

He must again use the draft picks to maximize the number of immediate starters and future pro bowl type players. For this team and this year, that is 1) drafting fast defensive players well equipped for Bettcher's 3/4 defense with the two first round picks - meaning two of Allen/White/Bush/Sweat/Burns... And 2) drafting a STARTER ala what they did with Hernandez last year. Depending on how the draft proceeds, that could likely be OL or WR/TE. But might also be DL or CB. Quality trumps quantity so perhaps using some of the later picks to move up if necessary to ensure that we have three legitimate starters this year.

Re quarterback, they should again use one of their 3rd/4th round picks to get a Grier/Jackson/Finley to replace Lauletta. Or if Gettleman has done anything regarding the Cardinals, perhaps he has put in place a trade for Rosen offering a 3rd/4th round pick this year and a third next year in the event the Cards take Murray. I agree with some of the posters saying that Rosen's value is unchanged irrespective of Arizona drafting Murray - in this case, it is no more than a third this year and perhaps a third next year at most. Another example of how quickly shiny players lose their lustre...

Otherwise, the quarterback of the future will come next year. Or the following year. Or maybe the year after that. There is simply no need to be in panic mode. Not now. Not ever. Not for any one player. We can win a championship with Eli Manning. Or Ryan Finley for that matter if we have the proper team in place...

If nothing else, just remember this Britt: shiny objects in football are always much, much further away from NFL championships than they ever appear....
RE: Quarterback hell must be freezing over...  
GFAN52 : 4/16/2019 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14389060 the mike said:
Quote:
I have always thought of Britt as a sensible voice of reason during the Giants seven years in the championship wilderness... So I am shocked by his leading the charge against sensibility with this post... And so I must protest...

First, you don't win NFL championships with shiny objects... We finally got rid of the shiniest of objects who led our team on a winding and excruciating path to nowhere... Have we not learned our lesson? Or the lessons of successful quarterbacks like RGIII and Carson Wentz? Or unsuccessful quarterbacks like Johnny Football?

And second, since Eli was drafted in 2004, he is among less than a handful of top ten draftees who have won a super bowl (which include guys like Reggie Bush, BJ Raji and Jerod Mayo)... Why? In part, it is because bad teams are drafting them. But more importantly, individuals simply don't have the same impact in football as other sports. Yes, LT had a profound impact on the sport and pushed the Giants over the championship goal line twice, but those were very good Giant teams. And the game today is much different...

All of this seems to be stemming from this completely irrelevant narrative of the ills of being in quarterback hell... there is only one hell in football (and all sports for that matter)... And that is championship hell... Who cares if teams like the Chiefs, Rams and Colts are dwelling in blissful quarterback heaven but remain in championship hell? I'll take an above average quarterback and a championship over championship-less teams led by Mahomes, Goff and Luck....

So the only sensible path today is continuing on the very prudent path that Gettleman has put the team on over the past year. And that is to rebuild the Giants into A BALANCED TEAM! One that scores AND defends!!!

He must again use the draft picks to maximize the number of immediate starters and future pro bowl type players. For this team and this year, that is 1) drafting fast defensive players well equipped for Bettcher's 3/4 defense with the two first round picks - meaning two of Allen/White/Bush/Sweat/Burns... And 2) drafting a STARTER ala what they did with Hernandez last year. Depending on how the draft proceeds, that could likely be OL or WR/TE. But might also be DL or CB. Quality trumps quantity so perhaps using some of the later picks to move up if necessary to ensure that we have three legitimate starters this year.

Re quarterback, they should again use one of their 3rd/4th round picks to get a Grier/Jackson/Finley to replace Lauletta. Or if Gettleman has done anything regarding the Cardinals, perhaps he has put in place a trade for Rosen offering a 3rd/4th round pick this year and a third next year in the event the Cards take Murray. I agree with some of the posters saying that Rosen's value is unchanged irrespective of Arizona drafting Murray - in this case, it is no more than a third this year and perhaps a third next year at most. Another example of how quickly shiny players lose their lustre...

Otherwise, the quarterback of the future will come next year. Or the following year. Or maybe the year after that. There is simply no need to be in panic mode. Not now. Not ever. Not for any one player. We can win a championship with Eli Manning. Or Ryan Finley for that matter if we have the proper team in place...

If nothing else, just remember this Britt: shiny objects in football are always much, much further away from NFL championships than they ever appear....


The Giants are at ground zero in rebuilding their defense.
Would it  
Mike from SI : 4/16/2019 5:27 pm : link
actually or significantly hurt the ratings if Rosen got traded before the draft? Who was planning on tuning in only to decide "nah, the Cardinals are taking Kyler, I don't want to watch any more"?
RE: I would have to see the Giants draft Murray to believe it  
DonQuixote : 4/16/2019 7:07 pm : link
In comment 14388717 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It would just be such a departure from what they're used to. I'd be surprised if he was sitting there at #6 and they drafted him.


Yeah I agree Terps. Don't they ding guys that lack the measurables in their system, which means he can't really be a flawless prospect, which means others will grade out ahead. I think that is the Giants way right or wrong.
Rosen trade value  
giantfan2000 : 4/17/2019 7:43 am : link
I disagree
Rosen value is what teams are interested in him - if they draft Murray then teams know Rosen will be traded and probably that first day
teams interested in Rosen are on the clock

if more than one team is interested in Rosen there will be a bidding war and his value goes up

the mike  
fkap : 4/17/2019 8:12 am : link
I would have no problem taking a flier on Rosen for a third round value pick. It's troubling that AZ is cutting bait on him so quickly, but at the same time he was a top prospect a year ago and is arguably worth the risk.

Just say NO to wasting another 3rd/4th round pick on drafting a QB. The odds that a QB would slip to the 3rd/4th round and become a quality starter is low as compared to the likelihood of finding a solid contributor at a different spot. We need solid contributors more than we need a QB whose realistic career is riding the pine.
RE: Quarterback hell must be freezing over...  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14389060 the mike said:
Quote:
I have always thought of Britt as a sensible voice of reason during the Giants seven years in the championship wilderness... So I am shocked by his leading the charge against sensibility with this post... And so I must protest...

First, you don't win NFL championships with shiny objects... We finally got rid of the shiniest of objects who led our team on a winding and excruciating path to nowhere... Have we not learned our lesson? Or the lessons of successful quarterbacks like RGIII and Carson Wentz? Or unsuccessful quarterbacks like Johnny Football?

And second, since Eli was drafted in 2004, he is among less than a handful of top ten draftees who have won a super bowl (which include guys like Reggie Bush, BJ Raji and Jerod Mayo)... Why? In part, it is because bad teams are drafting them. But more importantly, individuals simply don't have the same impact in football as other sports. Yes, LT had a profound impact on the sport and pushed the Giants over the championship goal line twice, but those were very good Giant teams. And the game today is much different...

All of this seems to be stemming from this completely irrelevant narrative of the ills of being in quarterback hell... there is only one hell in football (and all sports for that matter)... And that is championship hell... Who cares if teams like the Chiefs, Rams and Colts are dwelling in blissful quarterback heaven but remain in championship hell? I'll take an above average quarterback and a championship over championship-less teams led by Mahomes, Goff and Luck....

So the only sensible path today is continuing on the very prudent path that Gettleman has put the team on over the past year. And that is to rebuild the Giants into A BALANCED TEAM! One that scores AND defends!!!

He must again use the draft picks to maximize the number of immediate starters and future pro bowl type players. For this team and this year, that is 1) drafting fast defensive players well equipped for Bettcher's 3/4 defense with the two first round picks - meaning two of Allen/White/Bush/Sweat/Burns... And 2) drafting a STARTER ala what they did with Hernandez last year. Depending on how the draft proceeds, that could likely be OL or WR/TE. But might also be DL or CB. Quality trumps quantity so perhaps using some of the later picks to move up if necessary to ensure that we have three legitimate starters this year.

Re quarterback, they should again use one of their 3rd/4th round picks to get a Grier/Jackson/Finley to replace Lauletta. Or if Gettleman has done anything regarding the Cardinals, perhaps he has put in place a trade for Rosen offering a 3rd/4th round pick this year and a third next year in the event the Cards take Murray. I agree with some of the posters saying that Rosen's value is unchanged irrespective of Arizona drafting Murray - in this case, it is no more than a third this year and perhaps a third next year at most. Another example of how quickly shiny players lose their lustre...

Otherwise, the quarterback of the future will come next year. Or the following year. Or maybe the year after that. There is simply no need to be in panic mode. Not now. Not ever. Not for any one player. We can win a championship with Eli Manning. Or Ryan Finley for that matter if we have the proper team in place...

If nothing else, just remember this Britt: shiny objects in football are always much, much further away from NFL championships than they ever appear....


Ha, you've got me all wrong... This is not necessarily what I think is the right thing, it's just a hunch at what I think they might be thinking. Reading the tea leaves, so to say.
Run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer....  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 8:53 am : link
that's what I think wins.

If I had my druthers the next QB would be at least 6'4, 230, big arm pocket passer.
And yeah, I said it the other day....  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 8:54 am : link
Manning still has championship level play in him.

But we need to concurrently be thinking about the next guy, too.
I don't know that they have anything to lose by tipping their hand...  
Milton : 4/17/2019 9:01 am : link
...but the Cardinals have nothing to gain by doing so, so why do it? Unless there is a team blowing them away with a "take it or leave it" offer for either Rosen or the #1 pick, why let anyone know who or what their preference is? The more mystery surrounding you the better when you're at the poker table.
Rosen  
Thegratefulhead : 4/17/2019 10:04 am : link
Not be traded until Arizona is on the clock or right before. They can't, what if on the day of the draft Murray has some kind of Tunsil moment? I know I wouldn't trade my starting QB until I actually had a replacement in hand. What if there is someone they really really want at 17 on the clock? What if at that point they offer the Giants Rosen and their second? I'm not even suggesting that's a good trade. I am saying this thing is fluid and it could change based on who was on the board when quarterback needing teams are on the clock. I have resigned myself to the fact that this is not going to resolve itself until either right before Arizona is on the clock or at any point during the first two rounds.
The Giants aren't going to trade for Rosen.  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 10:05 am : link
I'd bet on it at this point.
I wonder if the teams interested in Rosen  
ron mexico : 4/17/2019 10:18 am : link
Have told the cards they'll let them know when they're on the clock and the answers dependent on who is available
Personally,  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 10:26 am : link
I'm starting to wonder if it's Josh Rosen that the Cardinals are going to trade, or whether it's actually the #1 overall pick that they're trying to trade out of.
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