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Daniel Jones seems to be rising on boards

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/16/2019 4:49 pm
Seems like a lot of folks on BBI don't like him, but the scuttlebutt seems to have him rising up the charts.
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RE: RE: The possibility  
pjcas18 : 4/16/2019 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14389133 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
In comment 14389126 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


that someone can be rising up a draft board on April 16th with the draft 2 weeks away seems like something is broken with the process (if that's legit).

None of these people have played a meaningful football down in 90 days by draft day, some in 120 or more.



Rising up draft boards = dissonance between Mock drafters(sports writers) and the late leaks of how the NFL views these prospects. It happens every year.


Good point, makes sense.

It probably explains the December 2007 mock draft with Andre Woodson in the first round. As we know the Giants took him in the 6th.

Damontre Moore was in many 1st rounds of mocks drafts in February of his draft year, as we know he went in the 3rd.
RE: RE: The possibility  
pjcas18 : 4/16/2019 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14389138 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14389126 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


that someone can be rising up a draft board on April 16th with the draft 2 weeks away seems like something is broken with the process (if that's legit).

None of these people have played a meaningful football down in 90 days by draft day, some in 120 or more.


When a person is "rising" close to the draft it is more a product of the media collecting more information from teams about their true opinions on players. We are now hearing that several teams actually like Daniel Jones over Dwayne Haskins.


Yeah, makes sense, still seems a little bizarre to me, but teams also leak a lot of false stuff around now.
I prefer Luck  
George from PA : 4/16/2019 7:03 pm : link
But I do not claim to know anything
RE: We all know that BBI'ers know better than professional scouts  
CromartiesKid21 : 4/16/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14389029 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Just watch youtube and you'll see. I mean if Jones and Duke couldn't move the ball against Clemson then he obviously sucks


Anyone who saw Russell Wilson in college knew he had the IT factor and would be a player on the next level. He still fell to the 3rd round because of his height. But here we are years later with him as the highest paid player in the game and former Super Bowl Champion.

Don't give these FO guys too much credit, some of these online guys live and breathe college football know more than the talking heads you watch on TV.
Curious to see what Sy thinks  
Oscar : 4/16/2019 7:11 pm : link
Along with the Bob McGinn write ups next week.
To rise up boards there also have to be boards  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 7:14 pm : link
I don't think teams keep a rolling big board throughout the season the way pundits do - they scout these guys during the seasons, compile all their raw data, and then spend these few months after that season arguing, reviewing the tape, meeting with the players officially, assigning final grades, and then setting their boards. As they set their boards I think that's when the leaks start to some degree, as well as the tea leaf reading based on which players are getting visits + private workouts, and that's when the pundits can play catch up and see who the pros are higher on than the pundits + media consensus.
RE: To rise up boards there also have to be boards  
Jay on the Island : 4/16/2019 7:41 pm : link
In comment 14389174 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I don't think teams keep a rolling big board throughout the season the way pundits do - they scout these guys during the seasons, compile all their raw data, and then spend these few months after that season arguing, reviewing the tape, meeting with the players officially, assigning final grades, and then setting their boards. As they set their boards I think that's when the leaks start to some degree, as well as the tea leaf reading based on which players are getting visits + private workouts, and that's when the pundits can play catch up and see who the pros are higher on than the pundits + media consensus.

Great post. Another thing to consider is that there are so many prospect workouts, pro days, etc where the media is around scouts and front office personnel. There is going to be countless discussions overheard or discussed with members of the media. This is when we start hearing about players rising or falling. What this really means is that the network college "expert" has a much different opinion on some players than the actual NFL teams. Instead of saying "Kiper was way off on those guys" we hear "player A is skyrocketing up draft boards".
I think also a lot of this talk  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 4/16/2019 7:41 pm : link
Is being put out their purposely to force some teams to reach. This allows a good defender to fall .
it's a good thing that BBI didn't exist when Simms was drafted  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/16/2019 8:14 pm : link
it would have been armageddon...
RE: RE: To rise up boards there also have to be boards  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14389227 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14389174 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


I don't think teams keep a rolling big board throughout the season the way pundits do - they scout these guys during the seasons, compile all their raw data, and then spend these few months after that season arguing, reviewing the tape, meeting with the players officially, assigning final grades, and then setting their boards. As they set their boards I think that's when the leaks start to some degree, as well as the tea leaf reading based on which players are getting visits + private workouts, and that's when the pundits can play catch up and see who the pros are higher on than the pundits + media consensus.


Great post. Another thing to consider is that there are so many prospect workouts, pro days, etc where the media is around scouts and front office personnel. There is going to be countless discussions overheard or discussed with members of the media. This is when we start hearing about players rising or falling. What this really means is that the network college "expert" has a much different opinion on some players than the actual NFL teams. Instead of saying "Kiper was way off on those guys" we hear "player A is skyrocketing up draft boards".


Yeah "moving up boards" is actually another way of saying "higher on NFL boards than mine because i'm 1 random writer with a DVR trying to do what NFL teams spend millions of dollars and employ dozens of people to do".
I have faith in DG and Shurmur  
Simms11 : 4/16/2019 8:21 pm : link
to find the right QB. If they think Jones is the guy, then I’m good with it. He’s certainly an intriguing prospect. He’s got really nice mobility and enough accuracy to make him a decent NFL QB. He’s a smart guy as well. Needs some work, but don’t most QBs coming into the league?!
I like Jones a lot - though i'd prefer to get him without using #6  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 8:29 pm : link
whether that's with a slight trade down or a trade up from #17 - but there are a lot of teams looking for qb's after the #6 pick so if they really want him they might need to get him there.

If they like him, Haskins, and Lock but don't love any of them then maybe they can roll the dice and see if 1 starts sliding. But that seems risky. Miami, Denver, Cincy could all go QB. Though if that happens there could a top 10 player on our board sitting there at #17.
He's  
mittenedman : 4/16/2019 8:31 pm : link
got an NFL game.
RE: He's  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14389307 mittenedman said:
Quote:
got an NFL game.


And NFL size + athleticism + toughness. His arm may not be the biggest but he can get the ball downfield and he flashes good touch.
did he run a 4.81  
stoneman : 4/16/2019 8:39 pm : link
can't be that mobile :(
As long as someone other than the Giants take him  
jeff57 : 4/16/2019 8:41 pm : link
Let him rise.
I hope the Giants get  
Jay on the Island : 4/16/2019 8:46 pm : link
one out of Bosa, Q Williams, or Josh Allen at 6 and either Lock or Daniel Jones with their next pick even if they have to trade up a few spots.
Got to say  
joeinpa : 4/16/2019 8:49 pm : link
Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?
RE: did he run a 4.81  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 8:50 pm : link
In comment 14389323 stoneman said:
Quote:
can't be that mobile :(


Ran in the 4.6's twice at his pro day. Combine #'s of 7.0 3 cone, 33 inch vert, and 120 inch broad jump are all respectable numbers as well. Even the 4.41 short shuttle.
RE: I hope the Giants get  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2019 8:53 pm : link
In comment 14389330 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
one out of Bosa, Q Williams, or Josh Allen at 6 and either Lock or Daniel Jones with their next pick even if they have to trade up a few spots.


That's also my hope. I also don't think there's a huge dropoff to Oliver/Sweat/Wilkins from that first grouping. All are extremely impressive.
......  
Klaatu : 4/16/2019 8:54 pm : link


Good, good. Let the hate drive traffic to my site...
I dont understand the whole " rising up boards " thing  
blueblood : 4/16/2019 9:02 pm : link
From what I have understood teams dont constantly adjust boards. Players get final grades and then the board is set.

The way I have seen this talked about and in all honesty I cant remember where, that what happens is that the player isnt RISING its just that the media is always behind what the NFL and teams think about players.. and they get better information the close the draft gets..
Don't see 'it' wth him  
Torrag : 4/16/2019 9:15 pm : link
I've watched everything on the guy I can get my hands on. Just can't find anything he does that is special. He has a solid well rounded skillset. The arm is ok but the release isn't very quick. The accuracy is concerning for a college prospect translating to the NFL. Good height but not that muscular. Doesn't fight guys off like say a Roethlisberger. Has some mobility but isn't that fast or elusive. Isn't great vs pressure. I see value in him as a developmental QB and to me that doesn't equal Round 1 and may not equal Top 50.

As always I'd support the pick but I'd be skeptical if we took him in Round 1 and worried if he was our #6 pick. Perhaps he's killing the off field stuff in interviews and the white board but you still have to be a football player first and excel on Sunday's. Bottomline is I'm not sold on him.
RE: Hooray for game managers!  
bw in dc : 4/16/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14389046 Anakim said:
Quote:
Seriously though, take away Cutcliffe, his sneaky athleticism and his size, and what do you have? He has never thrown for more than 3000 yards in a season, he has no zip on his passes,

But he doesn't turn the ball over. Okay, great. If I wanted a tall, sneaky athletic QB who doesn't turn the ball over and was coached by David Cutcliffe, I'd draft Erik Ainge.


I mostly agree.

Other than size, some athleticism (Jones is a long strider, so there is no short area quickness) and this dotted to the QB firm of Cutcliffe & Manning, there are ZERO plus attributes in Jones's game.

Frankly, I don't see any high first round QB talent in this draft pool. But at least I know if we choose any of the following, they have:

Murray has plus-plus quickness and speed and a plus arm.
Lock has a plus arm and plus velocity. An NFL arm to make every single throw.
Haskins has plus velocity.

I see Jones purely as a 2nd rounder - more likely 3rd rounder - who will be best suited in a warm weather climate or indoors. He's the milquetoast of this QB class.




RE: RE: To rise up boards there also have to be boards  
AcidTest : 4/16/2019 9:40 pm : link
In comment 14389227 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14389174 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


I don't think teams keep a rolling big board throughout the season the way pundits do - they scout these guys during the seasons, compile all their raw data, and then spend these few months after that season arguing, reviewing the tape, meeting with the players officially, assigning final grades, and then setting their boards. As they set their boards I think that's when the leaks start to some degree, as well as the tea leaf reading based on which players are getting visits + private workouts, and that's when the pundits can play catch up and see who the pros are higher on than the pundits + media consensus.


Great post. Another thing to consider is that there are so many prospect workouts, pro days, etc where the media is around scouts and front office personnel. There is going to be countless discussions overheard or discussed with members of the media. This is when we start hearing about players rising or falling. What this really means is that the network college "expert" has a much different opinion on some players than the actual NFL teams. Instead of saying "Kiper was way off on those guys" we hear "player A is skyrocketing up draft boards".


Agree with both posts.
RE: Got to say  
giantstock : 4/16/2019 10:19 pm : link
In comment 14389338 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?


That's because you believe "he is moving up on draft boards" while there is a possibility he isn't because he's just not that good to be rising in a manner some think?

McShay said after he spoke to the scouts he knew they said he wasn't moving up their boards and as a result he surmised that his supposed "moving up" is media driven and not scout driven.

RE: RE: Got to say  
Deejboy : 4/16/2019 11:46 pm : link
In comment 14389429 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14389338 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?



That's because you believe "he is moving up on draft boards" while there is a possibility he isn't because he's just not that good to be rising in a manner some think?

McShay said after he spoke to the scouts he knew they said he wasn't moving up their boards and as a result he surmised that his supposed "moving up" is media driven and not scout driven.

This is McShay's opinion and not any fact. Gil Brandt obviously feels different as well as others. As things get closer to the draft players do tend to rise. This is when the Mayfield rumors about him going #1 started when before he was viewed as the 3rd or even 4th best QB in that group.
Or is he?  
giantsFC : 4/17/2019 12:06 am : link
Jedi draft mind tricks from teams holding their cards?

Looms large The Dave Brown storm cloud does.
How was Mayfield viewed as the 3rd or 4th best  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/17/2019 12:18 am : link
He was number 1 on something like 14 NFL teams draft boards. Him and Darnold were viewed as the top 2 QBs by the NFL. The only place you'd see 3/4 is in the media with their ridiculous Johnny Manziel comparisons.
RE: RE: RE: Got to say  
giantstock : 4/17/2019 12:23 am : link
In comment 14389476 Deejboy said:
Quote:
In comment 14389429 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14389338 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?



That's because you believe "he is moving up on draft boards" while there is a possibility he isn't because he's just not that good to be rising in a manner some think?

McShay said after he spoke to the scouts he knew they said he wasn't moving up their boards and as a result he surmised that his supposed "moving up" is media driven and not scout driven.



This is McShay's opinion and not any fact. Gil Brandt obviously feels different as well as others. As things get closer to the draft players do tend to rise. This is when the Mayfield rumors about him going #1 started when before he was viewed as the 3rd or even 4th best QB in that group.


All of it was not an opinion. He clearly stated the scouts he spoke with Jones was not moving up on their draft boards.

But yes you are right when he said Jones moving up more likely media driven- that was an opinion. But it was the result of the fact he spoke with scouts that drove his opinion.

But if joeinpa is going to ask why do some of us not like Jones that much -- it's because of what we've heard for example from David Te and with our own eyes we believe McShay is probably right that it is media driven.

It's all opinion. I was just offering the possibility of not being high on Jones for rd 1. I think Jones would be a nice fit for an established team - especially with defense in which he can be the QB to not lose games.

OFC a guy like Jones fits with Barkley. Barkley fits with anyone. I would just prefer a higher ceiling guy. As long as I read what David Te says and what McShay has said and with my own eyes - I got to believe he is not a good pick for GMen in RD 1.

RE: Don't see 'it' wth him  
Giantz_comeback : 4/17/2019 12:24 am : link
In comment 14389379 Torrag said:
Quote:
I've watched everything on the guy I can get my hands on. Just can't find anything he does that is special. He has a solid well rounded skillset. The arm is ok but the release isn't very quick. The accuracy is concerning for a college prospect translating to the NFL. Good height but not that muscular. Doesn't fight guys off like say a Roethlisberger. Has some mobility but isn't that fast or elusive. Isn't great vs pressure. I see value in him as a developmental QB and to me that doesn't equal Round 1 and may not equal Top 50.

As always I'd support the pick but I'd be skeptical if we took him in Round 1 and worried if he was our #6 pick. Perhaps he's killing the off field stuff in interviews and the white board but you still have to be a football player first and excel on Sunday's. Bottomline is I'm not sold on him.


No way Giants use pick 6 on a QB. Doesnt pass the sniff test at this point based on all that has been said. I think they are hoping Eli does well and resign him for 2020. Mara wouldn't have said what he said otherwise. Not spending the 6th pick on a Qb that could sit for 2 years.
Been saying this since the beginning re Jones  
MM_in_NYC : 4/17/2019 12:25 am : link
As to rising up draft boards, that happens b/c scouts and insiders talk to each other and as people realize consensus builds around certain players teams then realize that they need to draft those players higher than the anticipated if they want to have a chance at getting them.

That said, still not convinced Giants don't view Qb's in a cluster and will gamble on one dropping at either 17 or 37. I see that more probable than going 6 - but don't see going 6 as improbable either.
Dave Brown part deux  
micky : 4/17/2019 7:41 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Got to say  
joeinpa : 4/17/2019 7:49 am : link
In comment 14389487 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14389476 Deejboy said:


Quote:


In comment 14389429 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14389338 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?



That's because you believe "he is moving up on draft boards" while there is a possibility he isn't because he's just not that good to be rising in a manner some think?

McShay said after he spoke to the scouts he knew they said he wasn't moving up their boards and as a result he surmised that his supposed "moving up" is media driven and not scout driven.



This is McShay's opinion and not any fact. Gil Brandt obviously feels different as well as others. As things get closer to the draft players do tend to rise. This is when the Mayfield rumors about him going #1 started when before he was viewed as the 3rd or even 4th best QB in that group.



All of it was not an opinion. He clearly stated the scouts he spoke with Jones was not moving up on their draft boards.

But yes you are right when he said Jones moving up more likely media driven- that was an opinion. But it was the result of the fact he spoke with scouts that drove his opinion.

But if joeinpa is going to ask why do some of us not like Jones that much -- it's because of what we've heard for example from David Te and with our own eyes we believe McShay is probably right that it is media driven.

It's all opinion. I was just offering the possibility of not being high on Jones for rd 1. I think Jones would be a nice fit for an established team - especially with defense in which he can be the QB to not lose games.

OFC a guy like Jones fits with Barkley. Barkley fits with anyone. I would just prefer a higher ceiling guy. As long as I read what David Te says and what McShay has said and with my own eyes - I got to believe he is not a good pick for GMen in RD 1.

I wasn’t trying to be critical of any anti Jones sentiment. Was genuinely interested in knowing what the strong conviction opposed to him is based on.

I am one of those wishy-washy fans on whom they should take. I change my mind ever time I read a convincing argument for certain players.

I want there to be a quarterback who s ready, because for me it s hard to get excited about the future of this team until that happens

But I have no idea which if any of these guys are worth a 1 pick.





DG had a very good draft last year. I'm not expecting this one to be  
Ira : 4/17/2019 7:54 am : link
quite as good. Teams don't hit the 1st 4 picks the way he did year after year. But one thing he's done very well this year is keep people guessing about what he's going to do. We don't know which qb he really likes and if he's going to go after a qb at all. A lot of people have guessed and, when all is said and done, someone will have guessed right. But none of us really know.
Kiper has  
Beer Man : 4/17/2019 8:29 am : link
his top players at every position on ESPN.com. I don't pay for Insider so I can't see the whole article, but the teaser they posted was on the QBs, and Kiper has him listed as his #1 in this year's draft.

Let the Kiper haters begin.
Probably already mentioned  
Harvest Blend : 4/17/2019 8:47 am : link
but the Daniel Jerimiah guy on NFLN had the Giants taking Jones at #6 in last nights mock.

He was his 34th ranked player.

Sweat at #17. Ranked #13.
RE: RE: I can't say I have seen a lot of Duke games...  
NikkiMac : 4/17/2019 8:50 am : link
In comment 14389041 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 14389032 crackerjack465 said:


Quote:


but how bad IS his arm? It seems that is his biggest issue. Is it Chad Pennington bad?

Eli doesn't have a Mahomes-like cannon, but it is more than enough. How does he compare?


It's not bad at all. He has really good touch on the long stuff, but I guess the knock is he puts too much air under them. From what I saw it was good placement though. The only other thing was he falls in love with the primary option, and there was some concern on mid range sideline throws that there's some potential for INTs the was he places those. The arm strength stuff is not accurate in my view. His velocity is not bad.

Who knows though? LOL I thought last years draft was interesting, I have ZERO idea what to expect from us on draft day. It's kinda cool actually.




I agree Johnny 5 as I watched a bunch of Duke games,the arm strength thing is fake news has anybody ever seen the arc R Wilson puts on the ball this guy does the same ..... One problem I’ve noticed with Jones and the scouts I’m sure have seen it is when he gets in trouble he tends to try to throw against his body over the middle which we all know is a no no but a coach like Shurmur should be able to coach him out of that habit and tell him hey look Your not John Elway ,other than that I could see the Giants moving up from 17 to get him or take him at 6......
RE: RE: Got to say  
GoDeep13 : 4/17/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14389429 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14389338 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?



That's because you believe "he is moving up on draft boards" while there is a possibility he isn't because he's just not that good to be rising in a manner some think?

McShay said after he spoke to the scouts he knew they said he wasn't moving up their boards and as a result he surmised that his supposed "moving up" is media driven and not scout driven.
Maybe he was never low on their boards to begin with. The Haskins love was media driven. Maybe the scouts knew all along that Jones a better prospect than Haskins.
RE: Kiper has  
Go Terps : 4/17/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14389586 Beer Man said:
Quote:
his top players at every position on ESPN.com. I don't pay for Insider so I can't see the whole article, but the teaser they posted was on the QBs, and Kiper has him listed as his #1 in this year's draft.

Let the Kiper haters begin.


And who was the mentor that encouraged Kiper to become a draft analyst?

Ernie Accorsi.
RE: RE: Hooray for game managers!  
Thegratefulhead : 4/17/2019 11:44 am : link
In comment 14389398 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14389046 Anakim said:


Quote:


Seriously though, take away Cutcliffe, his sneaky athleticism and his size, and what do you have? He has never thrown for more than 3000 yards in a season, he has no zip on his passes,

But he doesn't turn the ball over. Okay, great. If I wanted a tall, sneaky athletic QB who doesn't turn the ball over and was coached by David Cutcliffe, I'd draft Erik Ainge.



I mostly agree.

Other than size, some athleticism (Jones is a long strider, so there is no short area quickness) and this dotted to the QB firm of Cutcliffe & Manning, there are ZERO plus attributes in Jones's game.

Frankly, I don't see any high first round QB talent in this draft pool. But at least I know if we choose any of the following, they have:

Murray has plus-plus quickness and speed and a plus arm.
Lock has a plus arm and plus velocity. An NFL arm to make every single throw.
Haskins has plus velocity.

I see Jones purely as a 2nd rounder - more likely 3rd rounder - who will be best suited in a warm weather climate or indoors. He's the milquetoast of this QB class.



That is how I see it as well.
RE: RE: Kiper has  
Beer Man : 4/17/2019 11:49 am : link
In comment 14389928 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14389586 Beer Man said:


Quote:


his top players at every position on ESPN.com. I don't pay for Insider so I can't see the whole article, but the teaser they posted was on the QBs, and Kiper has him listed as his #1 in this year's draft.

Let the Kiper haters begin.



And who was the mentor that encouraged Kiper to become a draft analyst?

Ernie Accorsi.
I did not know that
RE: Got to say  
ajr2456 : 4/17/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14389338 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?


The professional people do get things wrong. Fans and the media didn’t have Flowers as high as the Giants has him.
Daniel Jones  
GothamGiants : 4/17/2019 7:35 pm : link
I've done a complete 180 on ... I've never had a prospect go from "remote thrower" to "I actually kinda want this guy" before. I hated the prospect, and the thought of using a 1st rounder on him at first, because all I did was google some scouting reports and watch a mediocre highlight video.

What changed my mind? Going back, actually watching his games (both the good and bad statistical games), and thinking for myself - if you do so with an open mind and can forget the Duke/Manning connections, you just might be surprised.

He's got size, his arm is actually quite good and excels in the intermediate pass game, he's got impressive mobility, and he is tough as nails. Quite frankly, he reminded me of a significantly more mobile Eli Manning - which I would sign up for in a heartbeat. I can't even count how many of his attempts were under duress, and he just stood there and delivered catchable balls and got right back up.

Another thing you'll notice if you can objectively watch his game, is that his OL and supporting cast were a disgrace. I'm talking Flowers/Hart level disgrace on the OL with WRs and TEs dropping passes (including TDs) left and right. The fact that Duke was even ranked at any point this season is remarkable - his supporting cast was embarrassing to watch.

It's been posted before i'm sure, but I've linked a 10-15 minute that sums up what i've been saying. In short, if he had a team like Haskins - his statistics would've been incredible. Instead, you'll find him escaping pressure and delivering passes that literally go through receivers' hands in the endzone or bounce off their helmets.
Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
I agree Gotham  
Johnny5 : 4/17/2019 10:40 pm : link
Totally agree with you.
Some people seem to have grabbed a video or review done weeks  
PatersonPlank : 4/17/2019 11:07 pm : link
ago on Jones, bu media folks, before the combine and private workouts, and created a decision. Now they are unwilling to change that narrative, even in the face of facts due to teams finalizing their analysis.

The funny thing is Jones was considered by many on here a must have guy at the beginning of his senior year. I remember threads on him.

When you are on Duke an playing against Clemson, its much harder to get great stats than when you are on Ohio State playing against Rutgers. Jones was always under attack, had his WR's dropping passes all over, and had no running game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Got to say  
giantstock : 4/18/2019 12:20 am : link
In comment 14389552 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14389487 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14389476 Deejboy said:


Quote:


In comment 14389429 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14389338 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hard to understand how some fans can speak with such conviction their opposition to this kid.

If professional people see him rising what is your conviction based on?



That's because you believe "he is moving up on draft boards" while there is a possibility he isn't because he's just not that good to be rising in a manner some think?

McShay said after he spoke to the scouts he knew they said he wasn't moving up their boards and as a result he surmised that his supposed "moving up" is media driven and not scout driven.



This is McShay's opinion and not any fact. Gil Brandt obviously feels different as well as others. As things get closer to the draft players do tend to rise. This is when the Mayfield rumors about him going #1 started when before he was viewed as the 3rd or even 4th best QB in that group.



All of it was not an opinion. He clearly stated the scouts he spoke with Jones was not moving up on their draft boards.

But yes you are right when he said Jones moving up more likely media driven- that was an opinion. But it was the result of the fact he spoke with scouts that drove his opinion.

But if joeinpa is going to ask why do some of us not like Jones that much -- it's because of what we've heard for example from David Te and with our own eyes we believe McShay is probably right that it is media driven.

It's all opinion. I was just offering the possibility of not being high on Jones for rd 1. I think Jones would be a nice fit for an established team - especially with defense in which he can be the QB to not lose games.

OFC a guy like Jones fits with Barkley. Barkley fits with anyone. I would just prefer a higher ceiling guy. As long as I read what David Te says and what McShay has said and with my own eyes - I got to believe he is not a good pick for GMen in RD 1.

I wasn’t trying to be critical of any anti Jones sentiment. Was genuinely interested in knowing what the strong conviction opposed to him is based on.

I am one of those wishy-washy fans on whom they should take. I change my mind ever time I read a convincing argument for certain players.

I want there to be a quarterback who s ready, because for me it s hard to get excited about the future of this team until that happens

But I have no idea which if any of these guys are worth a 1 pick.





And I hope you realize my reply wasn't being mean either. IMO juts don't believe the hype and watch the guy for yourself.

On this very thread someone was referencing Mel Kiper and how Jones might be #1. Well just a few days earlier I saw Kiper on TV and he had Jones going to the giants at 17. Maybe in a few days he changed his mind. Or maybe the news from the poster he saw was fake news etc.

ANyways for some of us who don't like him going to GMEN - just keep your mind open that we're not saying something bizarre. On this very site you got David Te Davis Te -- not BBI POSTERS analysis - not that high on him. He doesn't say he stinks etc. But keep an open mind that it isn't etched in stone that Jones is moving up on boards nor is it etched in stone he'll be "the next Eli."

Just keep in mind he actually might not be worthy/live up to CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER QB. OFC any qb can win if for example you have an amazing defense.
RE: Daniel Jones  
Ira : 4/18/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14390768 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
I've done a complete 180 on ... I've never had a prospect go from "remote thrower" to "I actually kinda want this guy" before. I hated the prospect, and the thought of using a 1st rounder on him at first, because all I did was google some scouting reports and watch a mediocre highlight video.

What changed my mind? Going back, actually watching his games (both the good and bad statistical games), and thinking for myself - if you do so with an open mind and can forget the Duke/Manning connections, you just might be surprised.

He's got size, his arm is actually quite good and excels in the intermediate pass game, he's got impressive mobility, and he is tough as nails. Quite frankly, he reminded me of a significantly more mobile Eli Manning - which I would sign up for in a heartbeat. I can't even count how many of his attempts were under duress, and he just stood there and delivered catchable balls and got right back up.

Another thing you'll notice if you can objectively watch his game, is that his OL and supporting cast were a disgrace. I'm talking Flowers/Hart level disgrace on the OL with WRs and TEs dropping passes (including TDs) left and right. The fact that Duke was even ranked at any point this season is remarkable - his supporting cast was embarrassing to watch.

It's been posted before i'm sure, but I've linked a 10-15 minute that sums up what i've been saying. In short, if he had a team like Haskins - his statistics would've been incredible. Instead, you'll find him escaping pressure and delivering passes that literally go through receivers' hands in the endzone or bounce off their helmets. Daniel Jones - ( New Window )


I watched a few of Jones games and I think your comments are accurate, but while he is more mobile than Eli, his deep ball isn't as good.
I'm not surprised the Giants might be interested.  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/19/2019 6:08 pm : link
This Daniel Jones hatred is quite dumb to be honest. I hear idiots all the time say: "He's not accurate, he doesn't have a strong arm". Those people are just clueless. He is very accurate, he throws with great anticipation. I've seen him in game film (I've actually watched him play) go up to the line of scrimmage and start communicating with his WRs (audibles), change his protections, point at defenders for his offensive linemen. You instantly think: "There's that Manning DNA in him". (aka Cutcliff coaching).

His completion percentage was 60% this year but his WRS were AWFUL. They dropped 38 passes. That amount of drops is astronomical. He threw 392 passes on the season. That's 10% of his pass attempts were dropped. His WRs literally subtracted at least 5% off of his completion percentage and subtracted hundreds of yards off his potential passing yard totals. There were passes where he threw a ball 50 yards through the air and the WR was wide open, the ball hit him right in his hands, and it was dropped. It was actually frustrating watching his tape because his team was holding him back. He carried his team to 8 wins and a bowl victory. Without Daniel Jones on Duke, their team would have been trash. They actually had to modify their offense because of their lack of an offensive line and their trash WRs. They went to a more compact style offense. He had to get the ball out of his hands quickly because of his line. Say what you want about him... but I've actually watched him play and I'll tell you right now. I wouldn't be shocked to see Belichick grab him because he can play the same style of game that Tom Brady plays. Lots of short routes, dink and dunk, then hammer a 50 yard pass down the field in your WR's bread basket. He has athleticism. I've seen him throw on the run while being chased out of the pocket. He ran a 4.67 (unoffcial) at his pro day. I've heard people say that he had just about a flawless pro day. He showed lots of zip on the ball. Showing that he has arm strength.
RE: Daniel Jones  
Eric on Li : 4/19/2019 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14390768 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
I've done a complete 180 on ... I've never had a prospect go from "remote thrower" to "I actually kinda want this guy" before. I hated the prospect, and the thought of using a 1st rounder on him at first, because all I did was google some scouting reports and watch a mediocre highlight video.

What changed my mind? Going back, actually watching his games (both the good and bad statistical games), and thinking for myself - if you do so with an open mind and can forget the Duke/Manning connections, you just might be surprised.

He's got size, his arm is actually quite good and excels in the intermediate pass game, he's got impressive mobility, and he is tough as nails. Quite frankly, he reminded me of a significantly more mobile Eli Manning - which I would sign up for in a heartbeat. I can't even count how many of his attempts were under duress, and he just stood there and delivered catchable balls and got right back up.

Another thing you'll notice if you can objectively watch his game, is that his OL and supporting cast were a disgrace. I'm talking Flowers/Hart level disgrace on the OL with WRs and TEs dropping passes (including TDs) left and right. The fact that Duke was even ranked at any point this season is remarkable - his supporting cast was embarrassing to watch.

It's been posted before i'm sure, but I've linked a 10-15 minute that sums up what i've been saying. In short, if he had a team like Haskins - his statistics would've been incredible. Instead, you'll find him escaping pressure and delivering passes that literally go through receivers' hands in the endzone or bounce off their helmets. Daniel Jones - ( New Window )


This about sums up my experience with Jones as well. I was underwhelmed by him when Miami played against him (in a monsoon) but upon further reflection I didn't realize just how bad his cast was.
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