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Trading Eli Manning was "most satisfying" moment

RinR : 4/17/2019 5:44 am
“[The trade] was the most satisfying moment for me in my career and I really mean that. I would say that if I was ever fortunate to win a Super Bowl, I’m sure it would’ve trumped that, but I don’t know that. I gotta tell you there was a lot of highs and lows in the business, but that moment was the greatest high for me as an executive for an organization.”

I guess without any Super Bowl victories to show for it, sticking it to Condon and the Mannings was A.J. Smith's most satisfying moment of his career. Maybe if he had kept Brees and drafted Fitzgerald they would have one won.

That is one bizarre thing to single out in your career as the highlight. Especially after the guy you traded went on to be a 2 time SB MVP.


Former Chargers GM says trading Eli Manning was the 'most satisfying moment' of career - ( New Window )
There was some discussion on it here  
robbieballs2003 : 4/17/2019 5:45 am : link
but it had a horrible title.
sorry.  
robbieballs2003 : 4/17/2019 5:45 am : link
here
Link - ( New Window )
So he found satisfaction in losing 2 Super Bowl winning qb's  
Ira : 4/17/2019 5:54 am : link
.
How exactly  
MookGiants : 4/17/2019 6:01 am : link
did he stick it to the Mannings and Condon when the trade resulted in Eli, Condon and the Mannings getting exactly what they wanted
from his perspective  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/17/2019 6:08 am : link
he knew that Eli wouldn't play for him, but by taking him anyway, he got three good players out of the draft. It makes him feel pretty clever.
RE: from his perspective  
Toth029 : 4/17/2019 6:19 am : link
In comment 14389517 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
he knew that Eli wouldn't play for him, but by taking him anyway, he got three good players out of the draft. It makes him feel pretty clever.

And still won jack shit!
I suspect up there amongst Ernie Accorsi’s most satisfying moments  
mfsd : 4/17/2019 6:28 am : link
are seeing Eli holding up the Lombardi trophy twice.
So sticking it to Condon & the Mannings is the  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/17/2019 7:23 am : link
'most satisfying' moment of his career? Okay then...
I don't think Eli would stick to his gun on that  
rasbutant : 4/17/2019 7:35 am : link
I think he would have played for the Chargers.

Has any reporter ever asked him about that? In hindsight would he have settled in and played for them or does he truly believe he would have sat out????
Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 4/17/2019 7:43 am : link
But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.
Really says a lot about AJ Smith  
TrueBlue56 : 4/17/2019 7:49 am : link
If he wants to deem that his most satisfying moment. He didn't get any superbowls with that trade. He got a steroid using linebacker who he only got about 3 seasons out of.

You know what Eli mannings most satisfying moments are....2 Superbowl championships and Superbowl MVP's
Channeling...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/17/2019 7:50 am : link
...his inner Mitch McConnell.
RE: I don't think Eli would stick to his gun on that  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 7:58 am : link
In comment 14389539 rasbutant said:
Quote:
I think he would have played for the Chargers.

Has any reporter ever asked him about that? In hindsight would he have settled in and played for them or does he truly believe he would have sat out????


He was asked the question many times but refused to answer. And I have no doubt Eli would have sat out. They - the Mannings - were pretty dug in at the time. Once Archie got back from his visit to San Diego - yes, he actually went out there to visit Spanos, Smith and Schottenheimer - he was more convinced Eli shouldn’t play there. And so Condon went to work to make sure it was abundantly clear Eli would never play in a Charger uniform.

That line in the sand move left Smith and the Chargers in a difficult spot. But they were able to create a trade that was worked out very well for them. It’s rare a trade like that is good for both sides, especially under those conditions with a top pick at stake.

.  
Jints in Carolina : 4/17/2019 7:59 am : link
Couldn't Eli have sat out  
Boatie Warrant : 4/17/2019 8:00 am : link
and just reentered the draft the following year?
RE: Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
Bill L : 4/17/2019 8:28 am : link
In comment 14389546 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.


But we all love John Elway.
It was also bw in dc  
dep026 : 4/17/2019 8:28 am : link
saddest moment in his life.
RE: RE: Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 4/17/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14389583 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14389546 Tittle 9 20 64 said:


Quote:


But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.



But we all love John Elway.


Not me, hate the guy!
RE: Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
Eman11 : 4/17/2019 8:34 am : link
In comment 14389546 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.


I think Smith just helped prove Eli and the Mannings point. What a badly run organization it was at the time with a couple of clowns at the top.

Why would anyone want their future to be in the hands of a guy like this?
RE: Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
JCin332 : 4/17/2019 8:40 am : link
In comment 14389546 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.


Are you actually a Giant fan?
RE: RE: Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 4/17/2019 8:50 am : link
In comment 14389606 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 14389546 Tittle 9 20 64 said:


Quote:


But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.



Are you actually a Giant fan?


Huge Giant fan for over 50 years.
That's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2019 8:54 am : link
great. Senility is a bitch though.
If a prospect does not want to play for a team  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 8:57 am : link
and IS willing to sit out a year (as Eli was), then what are you against?

People making informed decisions about their career and future?
That is the most funniest article I've read in a long time.  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 8:57 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
JCin332 : 4/17/2019 8:57 am : link
In comment 14389627 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
In comment 14389606 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 14389546 Tittle 9 20 64 said:


Quote:


But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.



Are you actually a Giant fan?



Huge Giant fan for over 50 years.


Great but can't understand why as a life long Giant fan you would consider this a dick move knowing what we know now about how bad that organization was...also leading to 2 SB championships and some of my greatest memories as a fan...
All time nickname  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2019 8:58 am : link
Coined by Archie. Smith was the “Lord of No Rings”
...  
christian : 4/17/2019 9:10 am : link
Manning didn't want to play there and he turned that into 3 legitimate Pro Bowl seasons of Merriman and a QB who's started every game in 13 years.

The Chargers have had 3 losing seasons in the 15 years since that trade. It worked out well for them.

Winning Super Bowls is really hard, and isn't the only successful measure of an era for a team.

As an aside we all don't hate Elway, but a generation of Colts fans did. I don't begrudge Chargers fans one bit for hating Manning.

Imagine if Barkley refused to play for the Giants and then went on a tear for the Jets.
It's not weird for Chargers fans to hold a grudge against Manning  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 9:13 am : link
It's very weird that any Giants fan would and yet years later, it seems plenty of them do.
RE: It's not weird for Chargers fans to hold a grudge against Manning  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14389682 Chris684 said:
Quote:
It's very weird that any Giants fan would and yet years later, it seems plenty of them do.


Yep.

Furthermore - do we think Chargers fans are pleased with the return for Eli Manning and are grateful for Merriman's 3 "legitimate" Pro Bowl seasons??

Tables can be turned both ways on that type of question. NY has 2 rings with Manning. SD has zero rings ever and their GM's most satisfying moment was losing out on that chance.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Smith’s logic makes no sense.  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 4/17/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14389644 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 14389627 Tittle 9 20 64 said:


Quote:


In comment 14389606 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 14389546 Tittle 9 20 64 said:


Quote:


But I still think it was a dick move by Eli and his camp. If the situation was reversed we would all hate the guy.



Are you actually a Giant fan?



Huge Giant fan for over 50 years.



Great but can't understand why as a life long Giant fan you would consider this a dick move knowing what we know now about how bad that organization was...also leading to 2 SB championships and some of my greatest memories as a fan...


Yeah, pretty dumb. People forget that it was supposedly Marty Schottenheimer, the coach of the Chargers at the time, through shared agent Tom Condon who told Archie not to let Eli play there because of how bad the organization was. His point was proven when he got fired after going 14-2 in 2006. When the coach of the team poised to draft you tells you that the environment is bad, I think you listen.

People also forget that it was A.J. Smith and San Diego, not the Mannings, who made public the announcement that Eli wouldn't play for San Diego. We have no idea how often this kind of thing happens, but we have at least two high profile examples in John Elway and Bo Jackson. I think most teams would be too embarrassed to admit that a player told them not to draft him so I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a few more.
RE: ...  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 4/17/2019 9:22 am : link
In comment 14389674 christian said:
Quote:
Manning didn't want to play there and he turned that into 3 legitimate Pro Bowl seasons of Merriman and a QB who's started every game in 13 years.

The Chargers have had 3 losing seasons in the 15 years since that trade. It worked out well for them.

Winning Super Bowls is really hard, and isn't the only successful measure of an era for a team.

As an aside we all don't hate Elway, but a generation of Colts fans did. I don't begrudge Chargers fans one bit for hating Manning.

Imagine if Barkley refused to play for the Giants and then went on a tear for the Jets.


I get what you're saying re: measures of team success.

However, when the player you traded away wins two Super Bowl MVPs for the team you traded him to, no number of "legitimate pro bowl" seasons or regular season wins is going to make up for that zero.
Interesting comment by Smith  
Shecky : 4/17/2019 9:23 am : link
It’s been said in numerous places that EA was tipped when he’d get the call from the Chargers. And how he wasn’t giving up Osi.

So now, years later, Smith is saying he leaked the call timing on purpose? I’m not buying that at all, but an interesting saving face by Smith.

On the other hand, considering the situation the Chargers were in, impossible not to say in hindsight they did as good as any other team has ever done in a trade down situation.
Chargers  
GF1080 : 4/17/2019 9:24 am : link
Loser mentality. Loser GM. Loser franchise. No wonder they never won a ring.
Man sensitivity runs rampant around here.  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 4/17/2019 9:30 am : link
All I’m saying if one of this year years top prospects refused to play for the Giants most of us have a problem with it. Of course Fatman has to get personal.
Immediately afterwards and for the  
pjcas18 : 4/17/2019 9:30 am : link
following few years I thought the Chargers fleeced the Giants.

Now that we know the outcome, 2 SB rings for the Giants and 2 SB MVP's for Eli for Smith to still be pounding his chest about the trade is like the kid 6 years out of high school still going to high school parties and looking like a loser.

Would have  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 4/17/2019 9:30 am : link
.
I would also say that Ernie Accorsi should be revered by NYG fans  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 9:33 am : link
yet most here mock him whenever his name is mentioned.
I wonder to what extent PTSD from the Ryan Leaf disaster  
NoPeanutz : 4/17/2019 9:57 am : link
may have influenced, even subliminally, the way that San Diego (and the Mannings) approached the whole Rivers/ Manning choice.
Loser mentality is right.  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 9:58 am : link
That is a loser's mentality.
AJ Smith was not well liked  
chiro56 : 4/17/2019 10:03 am : link
By Charger fans or players. Listening to some of his interviews years ago on the sports talk radio down here, you came to realize his nastiest.
Kiss the rings, AJ  
Harvest Blend : 4/17/2019 10:06 am : link
.
Interesting fact  
Les in TO : 4/17/2019 10:15 am : link
Eli is 0-5 all time vs the Chargers
RE: Interesting fact  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14389820 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Eli is 0-5 all time vs the Chargers


Cool story bro.
It always bothers me  
bluetothegrave : 4/17/2019 10:23 am : link
That pieces of garbage like AJ Smith somehow go on to convince people they are not complete morons and go on to have decent lives. This guy is potentially the worlds biggest douchenozzle. His greatest moment was that trade? ELI and Giants won 2 Superbowls and this dickwad's organization has won none due to that trade and that trade, even though it wasn't terrible for the Chargers, called that his greatest moment? wow. LOSER
RE: It always bothers me  
NoPeanutz : 4/17/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14389834 bluetothegrave said:
Quote:
That pieces of garbage like AJ Smith somehow go on to convince people they are not complete morons and go on to have decent lives. This guy is potentially the worlds biggest douchenozzle. His greatest moment was that trade? ELI and Giants won 2 Superbowls and this dickwad's organization has won none due to that trade and that trade, even though it wasn't terrible for the Chargers, called that his greatest moment? wow. LOSER

It's not even like Rivers has ever been to the Super Bowl. Is he the best or most successful QB to never have won his conference?
RE: Interesting comment by Smith  
TrueBlue56 : 4/17/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14389703 Shecky said:
Quote:
It’s been said in numerous places that EA was tipped when he’d get the call from the Chargers. And how he wasn’t giving up Osi.

So now, years later, Smith is saying he leaked the call timing on purpose? I’m not buying that at all, but an interesting saving face by Smith.

On the other hand, considering the situation the Chargers were in, impossible not to say in hindsight they did as good as any other team has ever done in a trade down situation.


Peter king has confirmed that he was the source that told Accorsi that AJ Smith was going to call him when the giants were on the clock.
If AJ Smith feels that way...God bless  
GiantJake : 4/17/2019 10:39 am : link
At the time, it couldn't have been fun for the Chargers organization to be called out as dysfunctional in front of the football world. I'm sure there is a grudge there, but they got a very good return and a franchise QB in Rivers. It is his "most satisfying" moment and I'm sure the Giants would agree. It's a win-win for both sides.
This guy is a petty jackass  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2019 10:41 am : link
Eli was right not to play for that shit hole organization.

That's been the rub. The Chargers were a shit hole. He knew it. The fans knew it. That's why it pissed them off.
RE: So sticking it to Condon & the Mannings is the  
djstat : 4/17/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14389536 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
'most satisfying' moment of his career? Okay then...
KInda shows what a lousy career he had
Eli as a 2xSBMVP and future HOFer  
BBelle21 : 4/17/2019 10:49 am : link
Really makes some people say weird stuff. AJ Smith couldn’t sound more insecure here lol.
Maybe he read this article  
WillieYoung : 4/17/2019 10:50 am : link
He won the trade and it's not close
eli-manning-an-average-nfl-quarterback-with-two-super-bowl-rings - ( New Window )
Smith is senile at this point  
RinR : 4/17/2019 10:50 am : link
there is no other explanation.

This guy has traded 2 QBs who have not only gone on and won 3 SBs but were the MVPs in all 3.

But yeah that's his most satisfying career moment.
Eli and Drew Brees  
BBelle21 : 4/17/2019 10:52 am : link
must thank the football gods everyday that AJ Smith is so foolish.
Sounds like AJ Smith hasn't had many satisfying moments  
ghost718 : 4/17/2019 10:54 am : link
.
RE: Maybe he read this article  
dep026 : 4/17/2019 10:54 am : link
In comment 14389878 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
He won the trade and it's not close eli-manning-an-average-nfl-quarterback-with-two-super-bowl-rings - ( New Window )


God your citing an article from a college professor who uses pointless stats as means of an argument.

You’ve got issues. When are you going to the Browns board like you proclaimed?
RE: Smith is senile at this point  
Eman11 : 4/17/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14389879 RinR said:
Quote:
there is no other explanation.

This guy has traded 2 QBs who have not only gone on and won 3 SBs but were the MVPs in all 3.

But yeah that's his most satisfying career moment.


The only way it makes sense for it to have been his most satisfying moment is if he's secretly a Giant fan, and knowing he had a hand in getting them two SB wins.
Lmao I haven't heard the old  
JCin332 : 4/17/2019 11:01 am : link
and an all-pro kicker BS" in awhile...

Used to be big on here...
More and more it seems this was a good trade for everyone  
WideRight : 4/17/2019 11:01 am : link

I'm with Title on this, your opinion of someone's behavior during a business transaction should have no impact on your emotional attachemnt to a team, and visa a versa. Eli's behavior was not admirable; and thats probably why renegotiating a pay cut for the team now is off the table. He's squeaky clean as a professional player, and that entitles him to ask and demand top dollars. Its business; he and the Giants have been served well by it.
Damnit meant to say  
JCin332 : 4/17/2019 11:03 am : link
"they got Shawn Merriman and an All-Pro kicker"
The thing most seem to overlook is that Manning wasn't playing  
jcn56 : 4/17/2019 11:22 am : link
there. It's not as if he had an option - it was take someone else and like it.

So, he figured he'd try to extract maximum value and make them sweat in the process. If you think about it - he did about as well as he possibly could have. Manning and Condon figured by telling him to piss off that either he'd just draft someone else, or work out a trade in advance. This would save face for both crowds - SD could claim that they got too much to pass up and it had nothing to do with Manning's demands, and Manning could say he would have played for SD but the trade made it moot. Instead, the mechanics caused some discomfort and uncertainty, and painted Eli as the villain for many NFL fans.

Smith always seemed like a pissy kind of dude, so hearing him say this isn't exactly a surprise - you'd figure he would say the hallmark of his career was building a perennial winner despite being told by the player that he wanted to go pound sand. Instead, he seems to have taken solace in making them uncomfortable.
Sad commentary on his 3 decades in football, isn't it?  
rsjem1979 : 4/17/2019 11:28 am : link
More than 30 years of his life devoted to the NFL, and the most satisfying memory he's left with is (apparently) sticking it to the Manning family by trading Eli exactly where he wanted to go and where he would ultimately win the Super Bowl MVP twice.

What an idiotic comment and self-own.
Can't knock Smith for letting Brees go  
Go Terps : 4/17/2019 11:32 am : link
Brees's 2005 shoulder injury probably should have ended his career, though I guess by that point they'd already acquired Phil Rivers so the writing was on the wall for Brees in San Diego either way.

Brees ending up in New Orleans instead of Miami is one of the biggest "what ifs" in the last 30 years of the NFL. If the Dolphins listen to Nick Saban and sign Brees instead of Culpepper, Saban might have built the Dolphins into someone that could compete with the Pats, and he likely doesn't go to Alabama. As for the Saints, I've heard Peter King say that they might not even be in New Orleans anymore if they hadn't turned it around the way they did under Brees.
All he needs to know  
Nine-Tails : 4/17/2019 12:18 pm : link
is that the trade gave him good resources to build a strong team, but Rivers was never able to lead those teams in the playoffs, often falling to Brady. While Eli with rosters nowhere close to the chargers, won the Super Bowl twice. So, yeah you got a good trade, but you were wrong on the qb.
I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
Bill L : 4/17/2019 12:28 pm : link
they would be the San Diego Chargers today?
everything worked well for both sides  
bc4life : 4/17/2019 12:39 pm : link
but I don't blame him for being pissed. some kid (and his agent and his dad) who hasn't proven anything in the league dictating where he's going to play
RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14390072 Bill L said:
Quote:
they would be the San Diego Chargers today?


So Eli is the THE main reason why the Giants won the SB both times...?

So if Eli was with the Dolphins during the Marino Era the Dolphins would have won the SB than Marino never could?
RE: RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14390158 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390072 Bill L said:


Quote:


they would be the San Diego Chargers today?



So Eli is the THE main reason why the Giants won the SB both times...?

So if Eli was with the Dolphins during the Marino Era the Dolphins would have won the SB than Marino never could?


Maybe... Can't deny Eli is pretty damn clutch when the game is on the line.
Take Eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2019 1:15 pm : link
away from the Chargers and they have zero SB's. Put him on the Chargers and we don't know.

What we do know is damning enough.
RE: RE: RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14390168 Amtoft said:
Quote:



Maybe... Can't deny Eli is pretty damn clutch when the game is on the line.


I don't. But nor do I think Eli has been this great force multiplier who has to make chicken salad...like a Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, etc. He's had a very good timing twice in his career, and to his credit, he showed up big.

But, and I really don't want to start another Eli v Rivers debate, for the duration of their career Rivers has been the better QB...

Eli is a better playoff QB than Rivers  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 1:23 pm : link
that's a fact.

Also, what Eli did in 2011 is on par with anything Brady, Rodgers or Wilson have ever done in their careers.

What other junk arguments are you trying to make?
RE: Eli is a better playoff QB than Rivers  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 1:26 pm : link
In comment 14390192 Chris684 said:
Quote:
that's a fact.

Also, what Eli did in 2011 is on par with anything Brady, Rodgers or Wilson have ever done in their careers.

What other junk arguments are you trying to make?


Are you sure Eli has the equivalent of a 25 point 4th quarter comeback in the SB?
So you chalk up Eli's accomplishments to "good timing"  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 1:31 pm : link
and yet you want to shower praise on Brady for the Falcons game?

I'd say that's weird but it's probably not coming from you.
bw  
Go Terps : 4/17/2019 1:31 pm : link
Eli turned two Super Bowl losses into wins with incredible fourth quarter performances that each included late game drives featuring historic plays.

You can think whatever you want about Eli, and I agree with you that he has been here too long...but what I wrote above is a fact that can't ever be taken away.

He changed two Super Bowl losses into wins with historic plays. Those two drives alone define his career, and are worth an enormous amount.
RE: So you chalk up Eli's accomplishments to  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14390212 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and yet you want to shower praise on Brady for the Falcons game?

I'd say that's weird but it's probably not coming from you.


Nice try. You asked the question and I gave a better example.

Why is good timing bad, btw? It happens all the time in sports. The Giants D gelled late in the season and became a top D at the right time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14390184 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390168 Amtoft said:


Quote:





Maybe... Can't deny Eli is pretty damn clutch when the game is on the line.



I don't. But nor do I think Eli has been this great force multiplier who has to make chicken salad...like a Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, etc. He's had a very good timing twice in his career, and to his credit, he showed up big.

But, and I really don't want to start another Eli v Rivers debate, for the duration of their career Rivers has been the better QB...


You don't really think Rivers could have done what Eli did in those Playoff/Super Bowl run years? San Diego has had a ton of talent throughout the years and have never won a thing. We don't win the super bowl much less get there without Eli in 2007 and 2011. That is just my opinion and you have yours. Eli was clutch though.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14390213 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Eli turned two Super Bowl losses into wins with incredible fourth quarter performances that each included late game drives featuring historic plays.

You can think whatever you want about Eli, and I agree with you that he has been here too long...but what I wrote above is a fact that can't ever be taken away.

He changed two Super Bowl losses into wins with historic plays. Those two drives alone define his career, and are worth an enormous amount.


I don't deny the point. The question was asked/posed as if no other current great QB has produced something similar.

Well, that's not true. In fact, Brady, and I realize I'm using a historically great benchmark, had also had some monumental moments in the clutch. And the list is more than two...
RE: RE: Eli is a better playoff QB than Rivers  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14390201 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390192 Chris684 said:


Quote:


that's a fact.

Also, what Eli did in 2011 is on par with anything Brady, Rodgers or Wilson have ever done in their careers.

What other junk arguments are you trying to make?



Are you sure Eli has the equivalent of a 25 point 4th quarter comeback in the SB?


Tom Brady is probably the best QB of all time, but you want to compare that and I will say Eli hasn't had that kind of talent on the Giants ever. Who knows what he could do with that.
You said Eli doesn't have the ability to make those around him better  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 1:46 pm : link
which might be true at this stage of his career, but as a blanket statement including his entire career is total bullshit.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14390228 Amtoft said:
Quote:


You don't really think Rivers could have done what Eli did in those Playoff/Super Bowl run years? San Diego has had a ton of talent throughout the years and have never won a thing. We don't win the super bowl much less get there without Eli in 2007 and 2011. That is just my opinion and you have yours. Eli was clutch though.


I really don't know. And while I've been through this exercise before, the talent Eli has been surrounded by is just as good what Rivers has worked with.

Rivers has to live with 2006. They were 14-2. And were something like 6 points away from being undefeated. A great team. But as was his nature, Marty went ultra conservative against New England in the divisional round games and lost an absolute heart breaker. One of the great Houdini acts ever pulled off by the Pats...
Brady was the beneficiary  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 1:47 pm : link
of two of the biggest giveaways of games ever seen in both the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowl wins.


Give me a break.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14390250 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390228 Amtoft said:


Quote:




You don't really think Rivers could have done what Eli did in those Playoff/Super Bowl run years? San Diego has had a ton of talent throughout the years and have never won a thing. We don't win the super bowl much less get there without Eli in 2007 and 2011. That is just my opinion and you have yours. Eli was clutch though.



I really don't know. And while I've been through this exercise before, the talent Eli has been surrounded by is just as good what Rivers has worked with.

Rivers has to live with 2006. They were 14-2. And were something like 6 points away from being undefeated. A great team. But as was his nature, Marty went ultra conservative against New England in the divisional round games and lost an absolute heart breaker. One of the great Houdini acts ever pulled off by the Pats...


Well we would never know anything. How good would Eli be on NE with Bill Belichek and his Defs and Gronk and good OLs. How many SB wins would SD have with Eli? How many would we have with Rivers?

Saying that I wouldn't change anything because we have two Super Bowl wins with Eli Manning and Rivers has none. That is the known and I wouldn't change it.
RE: You said Eli doesn't have the ability to make those around him better  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14390246 Chris684 said:
Quote:
which might be true at this stage of his career, but as a blanket statement including his entire career is total bullshit.


I did. And Eli is/was a very good one dimensional QB - proficient when he had optimal protection, a running game, and a top D.

QBs with the force multiplier effect are multi-dimensional and don't need everything to be place to succeed.

And really that's less on Eli than Jints Central's inability to create that environment.

But that still can't deflect away your position that no other QB had a SB/playoff accomplishment like Eli. I gave one example, and have others, and you have simply chosen to sidestep the issue.
2011 blows you entire argument out of the water  
Chris684 : 4/17/2019 1:58 pm : link
and I'm the one side-stepping?

Were you asleep in 2011? Under a rock?
RE: Brady was the beneficiary  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14390251 Chris684 said:
Quote:
of two of the biggest giveaways of games ever seen in both the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowl wins.


Give me a break.


We could play this all day. If Asante Samuel can catch the 2008 SB is over. If Wes Welker can catch there is a great chance the 2011 game is put away.

So let's be careful what we pick and choose...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2019 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14390250 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390228 Amtoft said:


Quote:




You don't really think Rivers could have done what Eli did in those Playoff/Super Bowl run years? San Diego has had a ton of talent throughout the years and have never won a thing. We don't win the super bowl much less get there without Eli in 2007 and 2011. That is just my opinion and you have yours. Eli was clutch though.



I really don't know. And while I've been through this exercise before, the talent Eli has been surrounded by is just as good what Rivers has worked with.

Rivers has to live with 2006. They were 14-2. And were something like 6 points away from being undefeated. A great team. But as was his nature, Marty went ultra conservative against New England in the divisional round games and lost an absolute heart breaker. One of the great Houdini acts ever pulled off by the Pats...


This is very interesting argumentation.

Eli is immensely helped by timing and a great D. Rivers is hurt by timing and coaching.

The lengths some posters will go to minimize actual accomplishments while fabricating all sorts of shit is pretty fucking astounding.
RE: RE: Brady was the beneficiary  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14390288 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390251 Chris684 said:


Quote:


of two of the biggest giveaways of games ever seen in both the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowl wins.


Give me a break.



We could play this all day. If Asante Samuel can catch the 2008 SB is over. If Wes Welker can catch there is a great chance the 2011 game is put away.

So let's be careful what we pick and choose...


If Asante Samuel was 10 feet tall. He makes the catch.

Point remains. Fabrication of shit.

A master at it.
RE: 2011 blows you entire argument out of the water  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14390279 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and I'm the one side-stepping?

Were you asleep in 2011? Under a rock?


Well, for the uninformed, the Pats were down 24-14 heading into the 4th quarter in that Seattle game. And Brady rallied the team with 200 yards passing in the quarter, and 2 TD passes against the famed Legion of Doom.

The Butler INT was probably as improbable - at the time - as catching a ball on your helmet on third and long...
Interesting..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2019 2:11 pm : link
that there's a greater perspective put on plays that didn't happen, like a near-impossible Samuel INT than plays that actually did happen - a helmet catch.

The troll characterization applies more and more each day that goes by.
RE: RE: RE: Brady was the beneficiary  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14390292 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


If Asante Samuel was 10 feet tall. He makes the catch.

Point remains. Fabrication of shit.

A master at it.


It was argued above that Pats were lucky to have won against Seattle and Atlanta. Which is very odd considering the amount of serendipity the Giants and Eli had in 2008 and 2011.

You seem a bit off today. Everything okay?
I’ve proven that in average  
dep026 : 4/17/2019 2:24 pm : link
Rivers had had better defenses and run games throughout their careers. BW ignores it.

And it’s funny he mention Wilso has had the capabilities of turning a team into a SB winner when the year they won it they had the first ranked run game and defense and the 2nd year he got there... hisnplay at the end single handily lost them the game.

But let’s use conjecture to sound smart I guess?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I wonder if he had Eli and his 2 SB's  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14390291 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


This is very interesting argumentation.

Eli is immensely helped by timing and a great D. Rivers is hurt by timing and coaching.

The lengths some posters will go to minimize actual accomplishments while fabricating all sorts of shit is pretty fucking astounding.


You dare to challenge the Curse of Marty?!?
If you really want to argue something  
dep026 : 4/17/2019 2:27 pm : link
is that eli has had to work with lesser personnel than many of the top peers during his time and yet was the winner and voted the best player in the biggest game 2x.

Dismissing this as a means of judging a player better than him who is a notorious playoff failure is just weird. He sucked against Baltimore last year, and if it were for 2 garbage TDs when they were down 40 against NE - he would have had another poor stat line.

Rivers has proven time and time again when the chips are down, he usually folds.
RE: I’ve proven that in average  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14390313 dep026 said:
Quote:
Rivers had had better defenses and run games throughout their careers. BW ignores it.

And it’s funny he mention Wilso has had the capabilities of turning a team into a SB winner when the year they won it they had the first ranked run game and defense and the 2nd year he got there... hisnplay at the end single handily lost them the game.

But let’s use conjecture to sound smart I guess?


Well, I forgot - you "proved it". So I do guess the case is closed.

On other thing. You have used stats to show that the Chargers have had - seemingly - better defenses and running games than what Eli had. Fine.

So when I use stats to show that Rivers has been a better QB than Eli that really shouldn't apply, right?
RE: RE: I’ve proven that in average  
dep026 : 4/17/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14390335 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390313 dep026 said:


Quote:


Rivers had had better defenses and run games throughout their careers. BW ignores it.

And it’s funny he mention Wilso has had the capabilities of turning a team into a SB winner when the year they won it they had the first ranked run game and defense and the 2nd year he got there... hisnplay at the end single handily lost them the game.

But let’s use conjecture to sound smart I guess?



Well, I forgot - you "proved it". So I do guess the case is closed.

On other thing. You have used stats to show that the Chargers have had - seemingly - better defenses and running games than what Eli had. Fine.

So when I use stats to show that Rivers has been a better QB than Eli that really shouldn't apply, right?


Go right ahead. But ranking a QB based on the stats you wanna use doesn’t correlate to the effectiveness as the ones I did.

And of course Eli has the 2 Super Bowls and 2 super bowl MVPs to better anything you have to offer. It’s easier to prove who has had effective units much much easier than it is to compare individuals.
See in 10 years  
dep026 : 4/17/2019 2:38 pm : link
Bw will use the NE game Rivers played last year in the playoffs as a means of how great he played.

But we all know he sucked and it was all garbage time stat padding, but the “stats” won’t reflect that.
Eli is not that hard to figure out  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 2:40 pm : link
If he has a good OL Eli is very very good. If he doesn't have a good OL Eli is average. Look at our OL that last 6 years and ask yourself why we haven't won.
RE: RE: RE: I’ve proven that in average  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14390346 dep026 said:
Quote:

Go right ahead. But ranking a QB based on the stats you wanna use doesn’t correlate to the effectiveness as the ones I did.



Please don't ever change. I hope I give you half the entertainment as you give me... ;)
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ve proven that in average  
dep026 : 4/17/2019 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14390356 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14390346 dep026 said:


Quote:



Go right ahead. But ranking a QB based on the stats you wanna use doesn’t correlate to the effectiveness as the ones I did.





Please don't ever change. I hope I give you half the entertainment as you give me... ;)


I’ll just assume you couldn’t understand what I meant cause it’s a little more complex than what your capable of learning.
What else is the guy going to say?  
Mike from Ohio : 4/17/2019 3:52 pm : link
It's the only notable thing he has done in a very lackluster career. He kind of has to insist he was right, or just admit that he sucked really badly at his job. Not many people do that.
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