Do people not understand the standards of a 3-4 defense? How is Ed Oliver a 3-4 DE? He's undersized for the position. Ideally you want your 3-4 DE as close to 300 pounds as possible. The job of the 3-4 DE is to control gaps and stop the run. Ed Oliver's biggest weakness is the run game. He gets overpowered on the run because of his lack of size/weight. He's ideal for a 4-3 defense not a 3-4. Why are knucklheads thinking the Giants would be targeting him?
He's not a scheme fit. His coaches at Houston have been quoted saying that he can't pack on weight to play 285+. He doesn't' have the frame. Leave it to clueless fans to guess what the Giant's want. Am I right? haha.
"My issues are, one, it is scheme specific that he has to go to the right team and used in a particular way," said an area scout. "If he were to go to a 3-4 scheme with two awesome ends like Pittsburgh with [Cameron] Heyward on one side and [Stephon] Tuitt on the other, that could work because it would allow him to get off. Or Houston between Watt and Clowney, but that is a tough situation to find."
Yeah, the Giants don't have that situation. We don't even have a pass rusher as of now. LOL
What do you mean... an unknown area scout isn't sure how to use him correctly. That should be the end all be all right? Wonder what that same scout said about Aaron Donald.
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IMO.
5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.
Hmmm the last position he would play... So you think he would play CB instead? Left or Right corner?
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IMO.
5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.
You remind me of all the Aaron Donald doubters. Oliver can play the 5-tech.
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Followed by a "hahaha" are my favorites.
What do you mean... an unknown area scout isn't sure how to use him correctly. That should be the end all be all right? Wonder what that same scout said about Aaron Donald.
Let's also just ignore all the 4 man front the Giants used last year amd in years prior when they had 3 safeties on the field at once.
Giants.com flunky floods boutique Giants message board with dumb shit...news at 11.
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In comment 14390361 allstarjim said:
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IMO.
5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.
You remind me of all the Aaron Donald doubters. Oliver can play the 5-tech.
Not if he is playing CB for us. That is the last place we would play him and we need a starting CB also. Jack Rabbit on one side and Ed Oliver on the other. I hope they play him in press.
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In comment 14390372 FrankieR said:
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Followed by a "hahaha" are my favorites.
What do you mean... an unknown area scout isn't sure how to use him correctly. That should be the end all be all right? Wonder what that same scout said about Aaron Donald.
Let's also just ignore all the 4 man front the Giants used last year amd in years prior when they had 3 safeties on the field at once.
Giants.com flunky floods boutique Giants message board with dumb shit...news at 11.
So you think Ed Oliver 3rd safety! good point... we should start a thread on this and call people stupid if they don't agree.
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In comment 14390361 allstarjim said:
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IMO.
5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.
You remind me of all the Aaron Donald doubters. Oliver can play the 5-tech.
Awful fit for the 1989 Giants 3-4, good fit for the 2019 Giants "3-4".
He can use Olinemen to tackle defenders:
And get off of blockers:
And chase down a screen from behind:
Pitcher?
What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018
It would be interesting to see how the Giants use him.
60%+/- of the time they are in the 4-2 with a safety creeping up with the ILB's.
The "starting" lineup after the trade was
96 94 95 54 (though 96 lost playing time as the year went along)
They moved people around so much that it is hard to say who was the starting line-up in the 3-4
97 would come in on 3-4 alignments at 3 tech, but also saw him at DE in the 4-3 replacing 96, which seemed odd.
59 would sometime replace 96 or 54, sometime he was added to the outside edge. Same with Barwin.
72 played both 3 tech DE in 3-4 and i guess it's called 5 tech (DE in 4-3)
Our "OLB's" very rarely dropped into coverage, and 96 almost always had his hand in the dirt. 54 almost always went forward but sometime hand in dirt sometimes standing up.
With 94 and 95 pretty much always on the field, in the 4-2-5. Oliver is probably a part time player (movable chess piece), though unlike Snacks, he will probably be in on the pass downs. I'm guessing he takes 97's snaps (about 30%) and hopefully 72's snaps as well (about 35%).
Just for reference 94 was around 60% and 95 was around 73% after the trade.
Link - ( New Window )
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not defenders, sorry
So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!
What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018
Hmmm, but where would he play. Seems too short for 5 tech DE and too small for the nose. Is he being considered outside or even inside at LB?
It would be interesting to see how the Giants use him.
60%+/- of the time they are in the 4-2 with a safety creeping up with the ILB's.
The "starting" lineup after the trade was
96 94 95 54 (though 96 lost playing time as the year went along)
They moved people around so much that it is hard to say who was the starting line-up in the 3-4
97 would come in on 3-4 alignments at 3 tech, but also saw him at DE in the 4-3 replacing 96, which seemed odd.
59 would sometime replace 96 or 54, sometime he was added to the outside edge. Same with Barwin.
72 played both 3 tech DE in 3-4 and i guess it's called 5 tech (DE in 4-3)
Our "OLB's" very rarely dropped into coverage, and 96 almost always had his hand in the dirt. 54 almost always went forward but sometime hand in dirt sometimes standing up.
With 94 and 95 pretty much always on the field, in the 4-2-5. Oliver is probably a part time player (movable chess piece), though unlike Snacks, he will probably be in on the pass downs. I'm guessing he takes 97's snaps (about 30%) and hopefully 72's snaps as well (about 35%).
Just for reference 94 was around 60% and 95 was around 73% after the trade. Link - ( New Window )
JT, were you the one who sort of hinted at a Teddy Bruschi like thought for the Giants. If I remember correct Teddy B was a DLinemen in college but moved to LB'er in the NFL. I know Oliver was asked to do other drills at the combine so is that part of the thinking as a guy who can play multiple positions.
Excuse me, sir. Can you get the El Diablo Hot Sauce off the top shelf for me?
And I'm like, Sure, pal. But maybe if you laid off the hot sauce you wouldn't need that three-pack of Preparation H you have in your cart.
Short people. Pfft.
Something like RD1-6 Haskins, RD1-17 Devin Bush, RD2-37 Zach Allen, RD3 best available CB.
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In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:
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not defenders, sorry
So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!
What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018
he didn't play in that Army game he was suspended
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But good topic.
It would be interesting to see how the Giants use him.
60%+/- of the time they are in the 4-2 with a safety creeping up with the ILB's.
The "starting" lineup after the trade was
96 94 95 54 (though 96 lost playing time as the year went along)
They moved people around so much that it is hard to say who was the starting line-up in the 3-4
97 would come in on 3-4 alignments at 3 tech, but also saw him at DE in the 4-3 replacing 96, which seemed odd.
59 would sometime replace 96 or 54, sometime he was added to the outside edge. Same with Barwin.
72 played both 3 tech DE in 3-4 and i guess it's called 5 tech (DE in 4-3)
Our "OLB's" very rarely dropped into coverage, and 96 almost always had his hand in the dirt. 54 almost always went forward but sometime hand in dirt sometimes standing up.
With 94 and 95 pretty much always on the field, in the 4-2-5. Oliver is probably a part time player (movable chess piece), though unlike Snacks, he will probably be in on the pass downs. I'm guessing he takes 97's snaps (about 30%) and hopefully 72's snaps as well (about 35%).
Just for reference 94 was around 60% and 95 was around 73% after the trade. Link - ( New Window )
The Giants never had the personnel for a proper 3-4. The stats for scheme percentage doesn't matter if they acquire the right players to play the system properly. A team can go from one of the most pass happy teams to one of the most run heavy depending a personnel. The same can happen defensively too in terms of scheme percentages. Heck, if the Giants got a nose tackle in the draft (Dexter Lawrence for instance. Not at #6, but later in the draft) that would allow Tomlinson to play the 3 tech and BJ Hill. Now you have depth and options since Tomlinson can play 1 tech also. That's a better solution IMO since Tomlinson's contract is ending in 2020. You get depth at 3 tech and 1 tech by taking a NT in this draft. Injuries happen. We have a lot of 3 tech options.
Did you modify the reply post title line?
What a loser.
That’s an idiotic and unnecessary response to a legitimate question.
You know what? Youre right! It might be that onetimeasstofaceandmouth guy that was exposed last week!
Feels like the John Jerry troll who then became the anti-Haskins troll (but was very pro-Oliver if I'm not mistaken).
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In comment 14390446 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
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In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:
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not defenders, sorry
So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!
What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018
he didn't play in that Army game he was suspended
But he played in that Texas Tech game where they gave up 63 points? Not a very stout defense when he's playing.
Two thoughts:
1. By your logic the Giants shouldn't have drafted Will Hernandez because UTEP was 0-12 in 2017.
2. The highlights are meant to show Oliver's quickness, strength, hustle, and technique. Of course he doesn't make a tackle on every play. But he has talent and can play at multiple spots on the D line.
In fact, James Bettcher was the defensive coordinator when the Cardinals drafted Robert Nkemdiche in the first round. Oliver is 6'2 287 and Nkemdiche is 6'4 293.
In our base odd man front, Oliver is going to be at 5T opposite BJ Hill with Dalvin at 0T. In 4 man fronts, he will be the 3T or even the 6T as the LDE over the RT. He can also play standing up for a few downs. He would take over for Kerry Wynn and even in NASCAR formation would be one of the inside guys.
Also, as an aside, as much as I like B.J. Hill, it's hard to believe that he would be the one that would keep us from drafting a talent like Ed Oliver.
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In comment 14390446 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
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In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
not defenders, sorry
So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!
What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018
he didn't play in that Army game he was suspended
But he played in that Texas Tech game where they gave up 63 points? Not a very stout defense when he's playing.
So weird since he was playing NG, CB, Safety, DE, DE, LB, LB, LB, LB, Nickel back, other CB... Oh wait it is a team sport and a power 5 team beat up a non-power 5 team... shocking. You blame him but how many times does a NG stop 605 passing yards with 5 TDs?
I'm agnostic on Oliver at #6 but agree with this take.
He can undoubtedly disrupt. Remember, he was a five star recruit who chose Houston to stay home and help his local school. Bama, LSU, OU, etc wanted him badly.
BTW, of that 2016 HS class, there is a great chance 3 of the top five - Bosa, Gary, Oliver - get drafted next week in the top ten.
You will see our OLBs crashing down all over various gaps.
If Oliver is as advertised, he'd be a great fit.
It's not a "hold em up and wait for the Mike" old fashioned 3/4.
For late in close games or early to switch shit up.
Oliver's skillset could work.. but you need to be sure he fits..
3-4 one gap vs two gap primer. - ( New Window )