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Why Do People Think Ed Oliver Is Viable?

nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 2:23 pm
Do people not understand the standards of a 3-4 defense? How is Ed Oliver a 3-4 DE? He's undersized for the position. Ideally you want your 3-4 DE as close to 300 pounds as possible. The job of the 3-4 DE is to control gaps and stop the run. Ed Oliver's biggest weakness is the run game. He gets overpowered on the run because of his lack of size/weight. He's ideal for a 4-3 defense not a 3-4. Why are knucklheads thinking the Giants would be targeting him?

He's not a scheme fit. His coaches at Houston have been quoted saying that he can't pack on weight to play 285+. He doesn't' have the frame. Leave it to clueless fans to guess what the Giant's want. Am I right? haha.
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Now I know why I catch hell  
FrankieR : 4/17/2019 2:26 pm : link
For registering this month....
You might want to look into  
Larry from WV : 4/17/2019 2:27 pm : link
this version of a 3-4. It's based upon gap penetration.
Ed oliver  
jtgiants : 4/17/2019 2:28 pm : link
Is very much in play for the giants
as posted above  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/17/2019 2:31 pm : link
we don't run a 2-gap defense.
hmmm  
Jay in Toronto : 4/17/2019 2:32 pm : link
perhaps you should stick to testicles?

;)
My uninformed opinion  
bigblue12 : 4/17/2019 2:32 pm : link
Is that he would be the leader in the clubhouse at pick 6
.  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 2:33 pm : link
We already have BJ Hill playing 3 tech. He was one of the most productive defensive players we had. He's 300 pounds. So we draft Ed Oliver who has trouble playing at 285 so we can bench BJ Hill?

Now if you want to talk about a 5 tech DE or OLBs then I'd say: "Ok, that makes sense for our defensive scheme".

You are an idiot  
Joey in VA : 4/17/2019 2:34 pm : link
You should be banned for not understanding our actual scheme. Idiot.
Ed Oliver???  
superspynyg : 4/17/2019 2:34 pm : link
YES PLEASE!!
Traditional concepts  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2019 2:34 pm : link
in scouting are going out the window / have already gone out the window at several positions

Simply put, Oliver can penetrate and NYG scheme is more about penetration and making the offense adjust to them more than the other way around.

You do need to carve a role out for Oliver, but that doesn't mean he is a square peg being fit in to a circle.
I would say you have never  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 2:35 pm : link
seen Ed Oliver play. He played in the NG position in a 3-4 because he was so strong and good at taking on blocks and making plays in the run. Aaron Donald started as a 3-4 DE just an FYI. He is strong, Agile, quick, fast, etc. He is a super talent and we would be luck to get him.
Do you not understand  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2019 2:35 pm : link
that the Giants were in a 4 man front more than half the snaps last year?

He makes sense as end on run downs.  
RAIN : 4/17/2019 2:35 pm : link
And inside on passing downs. We run a 4-3 more than half the time. He was double and triple teamed a good part of the games . His mobility provides a number roles he fits in Betcher’s scheme. I think they would use him as a penetrator and not to strictly hold the POA ala snacks.
Always a good idea  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2019 2:36 pm : link
to watch a couple games before you start calling others knuckleheads.
Well let’s see  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2019 2:36 pm : link
because our defense sucks, and he is good
RE: Ed oliver  
Ray_Ray (NYG) : 4/17/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14390327 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Is very much in play for the giants


jt, where would you rank Oliver on the Giants draft board with the other defenders in play at 6? I'm a big fan of Oliver myself.
Glad Oliver is “in the mix”  
GothamGiants : 4/17/2019 2:42 pm : link
I want 1 of Bosa, Allen, Williams, Sweat, Oliver @ 6

Hopefully Jets trade out to push a guy like Allen/Williams down to 6 (assuming a trade would be for a QB prior to Giants pick)
Huge fan of Oliver as well  
islander1 : 4/17/2019 2:42 pm : link
He's going to be a monster in this league.
I’m guessing he’s so viable  
George : 4/17/2019 2:43 pm : link
That he becomes our pick at #6.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/17/2019 2:44 pm : link
Not really a good look to spend an entire post showing your ass and the fact that you don't understand the front we're running here, and then decide to call other fans "clueless."
He'd play 5-tech DE for us  
allstarjim : 4/17/2019 2:45 pm : link
IMO.
Our 3-4...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/17/2019 2:46 pm : link
...is a bit ofa hybrid with a 5-1-3-(5).
There are variations from there.

LBs have gap responsibilities between the 5s.

Taken From NFL Personnel Regarding Oliver:  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 2:48 pm : link
"In speaking to team contacts, they feel the scheme limitations are something to be considered with Oliver.

"My issues are, one, it is scheme specific that he has to go to the right team and used in a particular way," said an area scout. "If he were to go to a 3-4 scheme with two awesome ends like Pittsburgh with [Cameron] Heyward on one side and [Stephon] Tuitt on the other, that could work because it would allow him to get off. Or Houston between Watt and Clowney, but that is a tough situation to find."

Yeah, the Giants don't have that situation. We don't even have a pass rusher as of now. LOL
Dumb posts  
FrankieR : 4/17/2019 2:48 pm : link
Followed by a "hahaha" are my favorites.
RE: He'd play 5-tech DE for us  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14390361 allstarjim said:
Quote:
IMO.
5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.
RE: Dumb posts  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14390372 FrankieR said:
Quote:
Followed by a "hahaha" are my favorites.


What do you mean... an unknown area scout isn't sure how to use him correctly. That should be the end all be all right? Wonder what that same scout said about Aaron Donald.
RE: RE: He'd play 5-tech DE for us  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14390373 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
Quote:
In comment 14390361 allstarjim said:


Quote:


IMO.

5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.


Hmmm the last position he would play... So you think he would play CB instead? Left or Right corner?
RE: RE: He'd play 5-tech DE for us  
allstarjim : 4/17/2019 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14390373 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
Quote:
In comment 14390361 allstarjim said:


Quote:


IMO.

5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.


You remind me of all the Aaron Donald doubters. Oliver can play the 5-tech.
RE: RE: Dumb posts  
FrankieR : 4/17/2019 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14390377 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14390372 FrankieR said:


Quote:


Followed by a "hahaha" are my favorites.



What do you mean... an unknown area scout isn't sure how to use him correctly. That should be the end all be all right? Wonder what that same scout said about Aaron Donald.



Let's also just ignore all the 4 man front the Giants used last year amd in years prior when they had 3 safeties on the field at once.

Giants.com flunky floods boutique Giants message board with dumb shit...news at 11.
RE: RE: RE: He'd play 5-tech DE for us  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14390386 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14390373 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:


Quote:


In comment 14390361 allstarjim said:


Quote:


IMO.

5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.



You remind me of all the Aaron Donald doubters. Oliver can play the 5-tech.


Not if he is playing CB for us. That is the last place we would play him and we need a starting CB also. Jack Rabbit on one side and Ed Oliver on the other. I hope they play him in press.
RE: RE: RE: Dumb posts  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14390391 FrankieR said:
Quote:
In comment 14390377 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 14390372 FrankieR said:


Quote:


Followed by a "hahaha" are my favorites.



What do you mean... an unknown area scout isn't sure how to use him correctly. That should be the end all be all right? Wonder what that same scout said about Aaron Donald.




Let's also just ignore all the 4 man front the Giants used last year amd in years prior when they had 3 safeties on the field at once.

Giants.com flunky floods boutique Giants message board with dumb shit...news at 11.


So you think Ed Oliver 3rd safety! good point... we should start a thread on this and call people stupid if they don't agree.
RE: RE: RE: He'd play 5-tech DE for us  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14390386 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14390373 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:


Quote:


In comment 14390361 allstarjim said:


Quote:


IMO.

5 tech!? No way. You need long arms to play 5 tech. That's the last position he would play in a 3-4.



You remind me of all the Aaron Donald doubters. Oliver can play the 5-tech.
Uhhhhh, but Aaron Donald plays 3 tech... not 5 tech.
4-man fronts  
JonC : 4/17/2019 3:01 pm : link
and not your traditional gap system 3-4.
He's an inside pass rusher  
AcesUp : 4/17/2019 3:04 pm : link
Bettcher runs a one gap penetrating front. Oliver has rare upside as a one gap penetrating interior rusher. He also offers some positional versatility along the DL and potentially even at standup. This defense requires positional versatility. That's a fit.

Awful fit for the 1989 Giants 3-4, good fit for the 2019 Giants "3-4".
Due to our 2 really good and young DT  
bluetothegrave : 4/17/2019 3:04 pm : link
i would prefer sweat over oliver but not....at all..at all by a lot. Oliver has monster written all over him.
Because he's a good lineman?  
RobCarpenter : 4/17/2019 3:08 pm : link
I don't get the obsession with "so and so can only play __ tech and therefore can't work". If the player is talented they can play at multiple spots, and that's what Oliver can do.

He can use Olinemen to tackle defenders:



And get off of blockers:



And chase down a screen from behind:

"We already have a right fielder;  
Bill L : 4/17/2019 3:09 pm : link
what would we do with Babe Ruth?"
RE:  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14390418 Bill L said:
Quote:
what would we do with Babe Ruth?"


Pitcher?
Maybe I said it wrong  
Bill L : 4/17/2019 3:11 pm : link
.
What dupe it this guy?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/17/2019 3:13 pm : link
Great first thread!
O linemen to tackle runners  
RobCarpenter : 4/17/2019 3:14 pm : link
not defenders, sorry
RE: O linemen to tackle runners  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
not defenders, sorry
So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!

What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018
Poorly written Post  
rasbutant : 4/17/2019 3:29 pm : link
But good topic.

It would be interesting to see how the Giants use him.

60%+/- of the time they are in the 4-2 with a safety creeping up with the ILB's.

The "starting" lineup after the trade was
96 94 95 54 (though 96 lost playing time as the year went along)
They moved people around so much that it is hard to say who was the starting line-up in the 3-4
97 would come in on 3-4 alignments at 3 tech, but also saw him at DE in the 4-3 replacing 96, which seemed odd.
59 would sometime replace 96 or 54, sometime he was added to the outside edge. Same with Barwin.
72 played both 3 tech DE in 3-4 and i guess it's called 5 tech (DE in 4-3)

Our "OLB's" very rarely dropped into coverage, and 96 almost always had his hand in the dirt. 54 almost always went forward but sometime hand in dirt sometimes standing up.

With 94 and 95 pretty much always on the field, in the 4-2-5. Oliver is probably a part time player (movable chess piece), though unlike Snacks, he will probably be in on the pass downs. I'm guessing he takes 97's snaps (about 30%) and hopefully 72's snaps as well (about 35%).

Just for reference 94 was around 60% and 95 was around 73% after the trade.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: O linemen to tackle runners  
BIG FRED 1973 : 4/17/2019 3:35 pm : link
In comment 14390446 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
Quote:
In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


not defenders, sorry

So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!

What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018
he didn't play in that Army game he was suspended
RE: Ed oliver  
jvm52106 : 4/17/2019 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14390327 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Is very much in play for the giants


Hmmm, but where would he play. Seems too short for 5 tech DE and too small for the nose. Is he being considered outside or even inside at LB?
RE: nowturnyourheadandcoughling, nicely written post. We need you here  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 3:46 pm : link
In comment 14390450 rasbutant said:
Quote:
But good topic.

It would be interesting to see how the Giants use him.

60%+/- of the time they are in the 4-2 with a safety creeping up with the ILB's.

The "starting" lineup after the trade was
96 94 95 54 (though 96 lost playing time as the year went along)
They moved people around so much that it is hard to say who was the starting line-up in the 3-4
97 would come in on 3-4 alignments at 3 tech, but also saw him at DE in the 4-3 replacing 96, which seemed odd.
59 would sometime replace 96 or 54, sometime he was added to the outside edge. Same with Barwin.
72 played both 3 tech DE in 3-4 and i guess it's called 5 tech (DE in 4-3)

Our "OLB's" very rarely dropped into coverage, and 96 almost always had his hand in the dirt. 54 almost always went forward but sometime hand in dirt sometimes standing up.

With 94 and 95 pretty much always on the field, in the 4-2-5. Oliver is probably a part time player (movable chess piece), though unlike Snacks, he will probably be in on the pass downs. I'm guessing he takes 97's snaps (about 30%) and hopefully 72's snaps as well (about 35%).

Just for reference 94 was around 60% and 95 was around 73% after the trade. Link - ( New Window )
The Giants never had the personnel for a proper 3-4. The stats for scheme percentage doesn't matter if they acquire the right players to play the system properly. A team can go from one of the most pass happy teams to one of the most run heavy depending a personnel. The same can happen defensively too in terms of scheme percentages. Heck, if the Giants got a nose tackle in the draft (Dexter Lawrence for instance. Not at #6, but later in the draft) that would allow Tomlinson to play the 3 tech and BJ Hill. Now you have depth and options since Tomlinson can play 1 tech also. That's a better solution IMO since Tomlinson's contract is ending in 2020. You get depth at 3 tech and 1 tech by taking a NT in this draft. Injuries happen. We have a lot of 3 tech options.
Giants  
jtgiants : 4/17/2019 3:56 pm : link
Feel Tomlinson is best at NT
RE: Giants  
jvm52106 : 4/17/2019 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14390487 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Feel Tomlinson is best at NT


JT, were you the one who sort of hinted at a Teddy Bruschi like thought for the Giants. If I remember correct Teddy B was a DLinemen in college but moved to LB'er in the NFL. I know Oliver was asked to do other drills at the combine so is that part of the thinking as a guy who can play multiple positions.
The OP is right. Oliver is too short.  
Klaatu : 4/17/2019 4:11 pm : link
And I hate short people. They're always bugging me in the supermarket.

Excuse me, sir. Can you get the El Diablo Hot Sauce off the top shelf for me?

And I'm like, Sure, pal. But maybe if you laid off the hot sauce you wouldn't need that three-pack of Preparation H you have in your cart.

Short people. Pfft.
Nothing not to love about Oliver, he's phenomenal  
Pep22 : 4/17/2019 4:11 pm : link
Still, I hope the front defensive 3 is addressed in RD2 with Zach Allen. I just think he will come with major value considering what kind of player he will be and when he will be picked.

Something like RD1-6 Haskins, RD1-17 Devin Bush, RD2-37 Zach Allen, RD3 best available CB.
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