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Why Do People Think Ed Oliver Is Viable?

nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 2:23 pm
Do people not understand the standards of a 3-4 defense? How is Ed Oliver a 3-4 DE? He's undersized for the position. Ideally you want your 3-4 DE as close to 300 pounds as possible. The job of the 3-4 DE is to control gaps and stop the run. Ed Oliver's biggest weakness is the run game. He gets overpowered on the run because of his lack of size/weight. He's ideal for a 4-3 defense not a 3-4. Why are knucklheads thinking the Giants would be targeting him?

He's not a scheme fit. His coaches at Houston have been quoted saying that he can't pack on weight to play 285+. He doesn't' have the frame. Leave it to clueless fans to guess what the Giant's want. Am I right? haha.
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RE: RE: RE: O linemen to tackle runners  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 4/17/2019 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14390457 BIG FRED 1973 said:
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In comment 14390446 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:


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In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:


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not defenders, sorry

So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!

What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018

he didn't play in that Army game he was suspended
But he played in that Texas Tech game where they gave up 63 points? Not a very stout defense when he's playing.
RE: RE: nowturnyourheadandcoughling, nicely written post. We need you here  
FrankieR : 4/17/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14390467 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
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In comment 14390450 rasbutant said:


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But good topic.

It would be interesting to see how the Giants use him.

60%+/- of the time they are in the 4-2 with a safety creeping up with the ILB's.

The "starting" lineup after the trade was
96 94 95 54 (though 96 lost playing time as the year went along)
They moved people around so much that it is hard to say who was the starting line-up in the 3-4
97 would come in on 3-4 alignments at 3 tech, but also saw him at DE in the 4-3 replacing 96, which seemed odd.
59 would sometime replace 96 or 54, sometime he was added to the outside edge. Same with Barwin.
72 played both 3 tech DE in 3-4 and i guess it's called 5 tech (DE in 4-3)

Our "OLB's" very rarely dropped into coverage, and 96 almost always had his hand in the dirt. 54 almost always went forward but sometime hand in dirt sometimes standing up.

With 94 and 95 pretty much always on the field, in the 4-2-5. Oliver is probably a part time player (movable chess piece), though unlike Snacks, he will probably be in on the pass downs. I'm guessing he takes 97's snaps (about 30%) and hopefully 72's snaps as well (about 35%).

Just for reference 94 was around 60% and 95 was around 73% after the trade. Link - ( New Window )

The Giants never had the personnel for a proper 3-4. The stats for scheme percentage doesn't matter if they acquire the right players to play the system properly. A team can go from one of the most pass happy teams to one of the most run heavy depending a personnel. The same can happen defensively too in terms of scheme percentages. Heck, if the Giants got a nose tackle in the draft (Dexter Lawrence for instance. Not at #6, but later in the draft) that would allow Tomlinson to play the 3 tech and BJ Hill. Now you have depth and options since Tomlinson can play 1 tech also. That's a better solution IMO since Tomlinson's contract is ending in 2020. You get depth at 3 tech and 1 tech by taking a NT in this draft. Injuries happen. We have a lot of 3 tech options.


Did you modify the reply post title line?


What a loser.
any takers for Oliver at #6, Christian Wilkins at #17?  
sober297 : 4/17/2019 4:18 pm : link
I would sign up for that scenario, right now.
PLAGARISM!!!  
TurnAndCoughlin : 4/17/2019 4:19 pm : link
If you’re going to steal my handle, up your thread game!!!
SIMO  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/17/2019 4:22 pm : link
strikes again!
RE: You are an idiot  
jeff57 : 4/17/2019 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14390337 Joey in VA said:
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You should be banned for not understanding our actual scheme. Idiot.


That’s an idiotic and unnecessary response to a legitimate question.
Jvm  
jtgiants : 4/17/2019 4:33 pm : link
Absolutely. If they take him they have a specific plan for him
RE: SIMO  
FrankieR : 4/17/2019 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14390524 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
strikes again!


You know what? Youre right! It might be that onetimeasstofaceandmouth guy that was exposed last week!
Oliver  
AcidTest : 4/17/2019 4:38 pm : link
played a lot of NT at Houston. That isn't his game, and he wouldn't be doing it with the Giants. He'd be a 3T. We also run a lot of fronts. Oliver is a penetrator. I like what BJ Hill did, especially as a rookie, but we need more DL players who can penetrate. That is exactly what Oliver does. He's also relentless.
RE: What dupe it this guy?  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/17/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14390424 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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Great first thread!

Feels like the John Jerry troll who then became the anti-Haskins troll (but was very pro-Oliver if I'm not mistaken).
RE: RE: RE: RE: O linemen to tackle runners  
RobCarpenter : 4/17/2019 4:40 pm : link
In comment 14390512 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
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In comment 14390457 BIG FRED 1973 said:


Quote:


In comment 14390446 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:


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In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:


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not defenders, sorry

So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!

What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018

he didn't play in that Army game he was suspended

But he played in that Texas Tech game where they gave up 63 points? Not a very stout defense when he's playing.


Two thoughts:

1. By your logic the Giants shouldn't have drafted Will Hernandez because UTEP was 0-12 in 2017.
2. The highlights are meant to show Oliver's quickness, strength, hustle, and technique. Of course he doesn't make a tackle on every play. But he has talent and can play at multiple spots on the D line.
He can play all over  
AdamBrag : 4/17/2019 5:06 pm : link
He reminds me of an athletic version Pernell Mcphee when he came out of Mississippi St. At Miss St. McPhee was lined up everywhere from 0 technique to OLB. I think that's how Oliver should be used in the NFL.
I'm not going to pile on because it seems like everybody else  
KSIXI : 4/17/2019 5:06 pm : link
resoundingly answered this guy's question. I will say that given the variety of fronts James Bettcher uses, Ed Oliver would be a 3 down player for us.

In fact, James Bettcher was the defensive coordinator when the Cardinals drafted Robert Nkemdiche in the first round. Oliver is 6'2 287 and Nkemdiche is 6'4 293.

In our base odd man front, Oliver is going to be at 5T opposite BJ Hill with Dalvin at 0T. In 4 man fronts, he will be the 3T or even the 6T as the LDE over the RT. He can also play standing up for a few downs. He would take over for Kerry Wynn and even in NASCAR formation would be one of the inside guys.

Also, as an aside, as much as I like B.J. Hill, it's hard to believe that he would be the one that would keep us from drafting a talent like Ed Oliver.
I’m going to point this out:  
tyrik13 : 4/17/2019 5:09 pm : link
Geno Atkins 6’1 300 lbs plays the 3 tech and 5 tech for Cinn and hes a 7x Pro Bowler and 2x All Pro. Oliver compares to him favorably to him
How much he weighs isn't as important as how strong he is.  
Ira : 4/17/2019 5:14 pm : link
Ed Oliver is very strong.
I've been on the Ed Oliver bandwagon since he was a frosh  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/17/2019 5:16 pm : link
Thought he was going to be the number one overall pick one day, but he never got to that protypical NFL size. Doesn't matter the guy is strong as an ox and teams will be scratching their heads why they pass on him. Much rather have him than Gary. Dude is just a football player as they say, needs work on technique, but the guy gets it done.
RE: RE: RE: RE: O linemen to tackle runners  
Amtoft : 4/17/2019 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14390512 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
Quote:
In comment 14390457 BIG FRED 1973 said:


Quote:


In comment 14390446 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:


Quote:


In comment 14390425 RobCarpenter said:


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not defenders, sorry

So you found a couple of clips of him pushing defenders? So what? I can find clips of him being swallowed up in the run game. He was playing lower competition. The only team ranked within the top 50 according to FPI rankings was Texas Tech. His defense gave up 63 points to Texas Tech. LOL!

What about Army putting up 70 points against them?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi/_/id/248/year/2018

he didn't play in that Army game he was suspended

But he played in that Texas Tech game where they gave up 63 points? Not a very stout defense when he's playing.


So weird since he was playing NG, CB, Safety, DE, DE, LB, LB, LB, LB, Nickel back, other CB... Oh wait it is a team sport and a power 5 team beat up a non-power 5 team... shocking. You blame him but how many times does a NG stop 605 passing yards with 5 TDs?
RE: Oliver  
bw in dc : 4/17/2019 6:13 pm : link
In comment 14390544 AcidTest said:
Quote:
played a lot of NT at Houston. That isn't his game, and he wouldn't be doing it with the Giants. He'd be a 3T. We also run a lot of fronts. Oliver is a penetrator. I like what BJ Hill did, especially as a rookie, but we need more DL players who can penetrate. That is exactly what Oliver does. He's also relentless.


I'm agnostic on Oliver at #6 but agree with this take.

He can undoubtedly disrupt. Remember, he was a five star recruit who chose Houston to stay home and help his local school. Bama, LSU, OU, etc wanted him badly.

BTW, of that 2016 HS class, there is a great chance 3 of the top five - Bosa, Gary, Oliver - get drafted next week in the top ten.

He is a fit  
PaulN : 4/17/2019 6:21 pm : link
He would bounce around a little, playing defensive end, but also playing defensive tackle on passing downs, he is like an Aaron Donald, and could be a game breaking type player. The Giants want to rush the QB, and the best way and fastest way is to do it up the middle, the Giants would die for a player like that. Ed Oliver could be that player.
It's going to be an attacking 3++ front  
idiotsavant : 4/17/2019 6:56 pm : link
We had Wynn at 3/4 DE at 260lbs.

You will see our OLBs crashing down all over various gaps.

If Oliver is as advertised, he'd be a great fit.

It's not a "hold em up and wait for the Mike" old fashioned 3/4.
That said  
idiotsavant : 4/17/2019 6:59 pm : link
This is the draft to go for multiple DL...and even in a mostly one gapping thing, one classic NT in addition wouldn't hurt.

For late in close games or early to switch shit up.
Posting info on the One-Gap 3-4 defense again  
blueblood : 4/17/2019 7:20 pm : link
because we still need to understand the difference. Aaron Donald does very well in a one gap scheme with the Rams.. and as someone else pointed out Geno Atkins has done quite well as a smaller DT in a 3-4 defense...

Oliver's skillset could work.. but you need to be sure he fits..
3-4 one gap vs two gap primer. - ( New Window )
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