They've done all of the homework on him, spent a ton of time with him throughout the draft process. Had him in the building for a visit on the first day of OTA's. Photos just came out of him training in Giants gear (I know its not a big deal but remember the Saquon Giants hoodie last year).
It seems like there has been a ton of smoke around the Giants and "defensive players" and Lock/Jones. Meanwhile, Haskins is "slipping". Starting to feel like this is more smoke than anything.
Only way it's not Haskins is if Allen/Bosa/Q. Williams fall or Cincy/Wash trade up (doubt this)
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In comment 14391154 AcidTest said:
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But if he's still available at #17, then quite possibly yes. The problem is that he may not be mobile enough for Shurmur.
People have to start understanding this. You don't pass up a QB at 6 and hope he falls to 17. If you're doing that, you don't like the guy enough to draft him anywhere. Plain and simple, you only draft a QB you think is going to be your franchise QB. If you evaluate him as such, you pick him at 6 and don't risk losing him because someone picks him before 17 (or you are unable to trade up to get him before that spot).
Where exactly did this mantra come from? Everyone is repeating it too. This is the thinking that Jacksonville used when they used a #3 overall on Blake Bortles.
Thank you. This is the short sighted stupidity that gets Bortles taken ahead of Mack, Beckham, Donald. “Gotta have that franchise QB”
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In comment 14391154 AcidTest said:
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But if he's still available at #17, then quite possibly yes. The problem is that he may not be mobile enough for Shurmur.
People have to start understanding this. You don't pass up a QB at 6 and hope he falls to 17. If you're doing that, you don't like the guy enough to draft him anywhere. Plain and simple, you only draft a QB you think is going to be your franchise QB. If you evaluate him as such, you pick him at 6 and don't risk losing him because someone picks him before 17 (or you are unable to trade up to get him before that spot).
Where exactly did this mantra come from? Everyone is repeating it too. This is the thinking that Jacksonville used when they used a #3 overall on Blake Bortles.
It’s BBI mob speak. Something that passes for insight and becomes the unquestioned gospel truth without anyone questioning it.
The year they took Fournette and then went to the afc championship?
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Big, strong arm, pocket passer and positive "face of franchise" type guy. Yet, they seem to have ruled him out very early on. Very odd IMO. If it were another team I'd be tempted to say smokescreen but the Giants don't usually roll that way. Still part of me wonders...
Pretty sure he left town today, wouldn’t say he’s been ruled out.
I’m just hoping this is to pressure Cincy into trading up.
Of course they have met with him but pretty much everything we've heard from early on is that the Giants are not going to take him.
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lesson with Bortles and 3 years later they didn't reach for a QB. And so Patrick Mahomes is in KC and DeShaun Watson is in Houston.
The year they took Fournette and then went to the afc championship?
Yes that year which was one year before they went 5-11 and spent 88 million on Nick Foles.
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In comment 14391312 bluepepper said:
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Big, strong arm, pocket passer and positive "face of franchise" type guy. Yet, they seem to have ruled him out very early on. Very odd IMO. If it were another team I'd be tempted to say smokescreen but the Giants don't usually roll that way. Still part of me wonders...
Pretty sure he left town today, wouldn’t say he’s been ruled out.
I’m just hoping this is to pressure Cincy into trading up.
Of course they have met with him but pretty much everything we've heard from early on is that the Giants are not going to take him.
I’m of the school of thought that thinks “anything making headlines before the draft is BS”
Somewhat related, I’ve got a buddy with a Jets connect (asshat, if you will) and they are pretty much dead set on trading down for more picks. They have Darnold, Leveon, but a putrid OL and want to get an OL/TE for Darnold .... Cincinnati being 1 of the teams
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In comment 14391324 bluepepper said:
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lesson with Bortles and 3 years later they didn't reach for a QB. And so Patrick Mahomes is in KC and DeShaun Watson is in Houston.
The year they took Fournette and then went to the afc championship?
Yes that year which was one year before they went 5-11 and spent 88 million on Nick Foles.
Hindsight is fun, isn’t it? You do realize the fact that the afc championship was even a possibility with that bum only proves my point regarding the run game/defense/supporting cast right?
I’m not defending Bortles, he’s garbage ... and yet guys like him and Keenum were 1 game away from the SB. The franchise QB is lovely, but it only matters when you have a good supporting cast around him and a defense could enough to stop offenses from time to time. Let’s use this draft to get the Giants defense back to that point. All I’m saying.
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In comment 14391175 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14391154 AcidTest said:
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But if he's still available at #17, then quite possibly yes. The problem is that he may not be mobile enough for Shurmur.
People have to start understanding this. You don't pass up a QB at 6 and hope he falls to 17. If you're doing that, you don't like the guy enough to draft him anywhere. Plain and simple, you only draft a QB you think is going to be your franchise QB. If you evaluate him as such, you pick him at 6 and don't risk losing him because someone picks him before 17 (or you are unable to trade up to get him before that spot).
Where exactly did this mantra come from? Everyone is repeating it too. This is the thinking that Jacksonville used when they used a #3 overall on Blake Bortles.
It’s BBI mob speak. Something that passes for insight and becomes the unquestioned gospel truth without anyone questioning it.
I don't care what others say. You should know that about me. You pick a guy you love because you don't risk losing him. If you love a QB - and believe he is the future franchise QB for your team - why would you risk losing that guy because you'd think the value board places him at 17? It's stupid talk.
As for the Jags, they were right in taking Bortles at 3 if they believed he was the franchise QB. Just because they got it wrong doesn't mean their thinking was incorrect. Justice is the process, not the outcome, so to speak. No one cares where you took the guy if he pans out. You think anyone cares that KC gave up a future first - same for Houston - to get Mahomes or Watson, respectively? No way.
Thank you. Music to my ears ... Your input always greatly appreciated
Maybe they are all of a sudden experts at misdirection. I'm not going to get my hopes up, but it would be nice to see the Giants actually run the smokescreen game for once. I'll tell you, if they did it would actually give me more confidence in the front office.
I love what Gettleman has done so far and demanding Peppers was a brilliant move. He’s going to thrive in this scheme.
Any insight on WRa? I’d love a guy like AJ Brown or Hakeem Butler or Paris Campbell in blue
Thank you, I feel like WR value could be there at 37 ... I believe Eli can still get it done, hopefully a big body WR added
I don't see how you can just "punt to next year". You think the Giants are going to be good. If so, how exactly do you plan on going about getting a QB in the draft next year, if we are drafting between 15 and 20? Giving up our firsts in 2021 and 2022 to do so? You can't have it both ways.
You can trust Gettleman all you want. To each his own. I refuse to do so, given the fact that he openly ignores analytics, admitted to refusing to shop the ODB offer, and generally sounds as if he has no idea what he is doing. Now, if he drafts Haskins, I'll change my tune.
In a week, we'll see how this goes down. But your point about four QBs going in the top 15 underscores why the Giants need to pick a QB at 6 if they are serious about getting one. Why waste extra capital to move up from 17 and also risk losing your guy? Just take the QB at 6 and go D or whatever at 17.
Last year you said they were not going QB, and you were right. I'm not going to sit here and question that again. Chances are you'll get your wish, and we'll have Eli start here until he dies on the field. I'd rather us field a competent team, but so be it.
I assume you mean Haskins, not Winston. In any event, if a guy is in play at 17, the guy should be in play at 6. Is there someone so good at 6 that the Giants simply refuse to pass up for a QB? Am I missing something? Because otherwise we could get a QB at 6 and still get an impact defender at 17.
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Nothing specific on wr. However I suspect it's certainly in play for sure
Thank you, I feel like WR value could be there at 37 ... I believe Eli can still get it done, hopefully a big body WR added
I'm a known non-believer in Eli, so I'll continue to get tarred and feathered for this, but when exactly will people stop believing in Eli? When is enough, enough? I'm just wondering.
I hope so I believed that last year and started to think I'm mistaken. One thing is for sure Eli has no more excuses. The line should be good has talent and play makers at the skill positions, the offense will go as far as he takes them. Well get our definite answer on Eli next year.
Haskins is not even close to jamies. That is just wrong. I live in Tampa Bay. James is who he was in college a gamer turnover machine, but less gamer in the pros. What about Haskins game reminds you of that.
His red zone # are poor. As a Penn St fan, i remember wishing Ohio St passed it....not a good thing for him.
I am nearly 60 and run a faster 40.....and i think fitter.
I put him 4th behind Lock, Murray and Jones.....but
If he is only one there at 17....sure...he has enough to certainly work with.....
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My understanding is things have gotten murky, in terms of qb at 17, as many believe Murray, lock, Jones and Haskins may go top 15. If so do the Giants spend draft capital and trade up from 17 to get a qb or punt to next year?
I don't see how you can just "punt to next year". You think the Giants are going to be good. If so, how exactly do you plan on going about getting a QB in the draft next year, if we are drafting between 15 and 20? Giving up our firsts in 2021 and 2022 to do so? You can't have it both ways.
You can trust Gettleman all you want. To each his own. I refuse to do so, given the fact that he openly ignores analytics, admitted to refusing to shop the ODB offer, and generally sounds as if he has no idea what he is doing. Now, if he drafts Haskins, I'll change my tune.
In a week, we'll see how this goes down. But your point about four QBs going in the top 15 underscores why the Giants need to pick a QB at 6 if they are serious about getting one. Why waste extra capital to move up from 17 and also risk losing your guy? Just take the QB at 6 and go D or whatever at 17.
Last year you said they were not going QB, and you were right. I'm not going to sit here and question that again. Chances are you'll get your wish, and we'll have Eli start here until he dies on the field. I'd rather us field a competent team, but so be it.
If we draft well for defense with our top 2, maybe 3, picks this year, I absolutely would trade three successive #1’s to move up in 2020 for Fromm or Herbert. We would have more talent at more positions instead of missing a defensive impact player so that we could reach just to settle at QB.
...6.
That's my bet.
They did tons of work on the QBs last year as well.
Punt — this would be a great outcome. An awesome defensive player or OT would be sitting there at 17 if 4 QBs go top 15.
I like lock also. And he needs to be taken at six to guarantee we don’t lose him. Any number of teams could trade up for him even at the Jax pick immediately after us.
Trade up for the defender.
There’s nothing similar in Haskins and Winston’s games besides skin color and build.
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In comment 14391328 GothamGiants said:
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In comment 14391324 bluepepper said:
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lesson with Bortles and 3 years later they didn't reach for a QB. And so Patrick Mahomes is in KC and DeShaun Watson is in Houston.
The year they took Fournette and then went to the afc championship?
Yes that year which was one year before they went 5-11 and spent 88 million on Nick Foles.
Hindsight is fun, isn’t it? You do realize the fact that the afc championship was even a possibility with that bum only proves my point regarding the run game/defense/supporting cast right?
I’m not defending Bortles, he’s garbage ... and yet guys like him and Keenum were 1 game away from the SB. The franchise QB is lovely, but it only matters when you have a good supporting cast around him and a defense could enough to stop offenses from time to time. Let’s use this draft to get the Giants defense back to that point. All I’m saying.
What you’re missing is that it’s much harder to be competitive year and year out relying on a defense and running game. Jacksonville’s went from one of the best to bad in a year, there’s too many ebbs and flows and too many moving parts to rely on it. Just look at the 2016 vs 2017 Giants.
It’s much easier to be competitive over multiple years when you have very good QB play.
No fucking way.
You either take the QB at 6 or you dont like one enough.
The same is true of “unless Bosa, QW or Allen slip”. If you think 1 of the guys is your next franchise QB why would a defensive player matter?
It’ll be a QB at 6 (or higher) if they like any of them.
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In comment 14391348 jtgiants said:
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Nothing specific on wr. However I suspect it's certainly in play for sure
Thank you, I feel like WR value could be there at 37 ... I believe Eli can still get it done, hopefully a big body WR added
I'm a known non-believer in Eli, so I'll continue to get tarred and feathered for this, but when exactly will people stop believing in Eli? When is enough, enough? I'm just wondering.
In comment 14391354 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14391348 jtgiants said:
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Nothing specific on wr. However I suspect it's certainly in play for sure
Thank you, I feel like WR value could be there at 37 ... I believe Eli can still get it done, hopefully a big body WR added
I'm a known non-believer in Eli, so I'll continue to get tarred and feathered for this, but when exactly will people stop believing in Eli? When is enough, enough? I'm just wondering.
Put me in the camp that wants a new “franchise QB”, but also doesn’t want the Giants to reach on mediocre prospects and bypass elite talent
elsewhere just for the sake of taking a QB. If the 2020 class was available this year, you’d hear me banging the QB drum.
Unfortunately, this QB class is lacking while the elite talent resides mostly on defense. So, what a smart team does is continue to stockpile elite talent where it is available to them and then adjust accordingly.
We all want a young gun to root for. Some want them to take a QB just to do so while blaming Eli for all of our problems. Others acknowledge you have to take what the draft class gives you, and the 2019 draft can
(and should) go towards building the defense up.
Build the OL, develop a dominant run game and effective play action pass game, and stockpile young elite talent on defense - lets get back to “Giants football”, no more of this “b-ball on grass” “the game has changed” BS.
Games are still won and lost in the trenches, no matter how much the game has changed it’s still football. Run the ball, stuff the run, hit the other teams QB.
Short version: Yes the Giants need a young new shiny “franchise QB” ... They can also still be competitive with Eli as long as he has a functional OL and a defense that actually makes a stop from time to time.
Eli has lost a little bit, but he is not the problem weighing down this franchise like so many people want to claim. He can still play, he just needs help. Reese wasted his prime by building this offense like it was a fantasy football draft and forcing Eli to play behind pathetic OLs. Eli, and this offense, looked much better in the 2nd half of last year once the OL played better.
Shorter version: Put me in the camp that wants a new QB, but only when the prospects available dictate they are worthy of a top pick. This class is not that, so draft accordingly and start stockpiling young studs on the defense.
With the softer schedule, improved OL (Zietler was a huge acquisition), this team can complete for a wildcard spot if they address defense early and often. Draft best player available, make life easier for Eli AND the young guy eventually replacing him.
/novel
No fucking way.
You either take the QB at 6 or you dont like one enough.
The same is true of “unless Bosa, QW or Allen slip”. If you think 1 of the guys is your next franchise QB why would a defensive player matter?
It’ll be a QB at 6 (or higher) if they like any of them.
If Williams or Allen falls to 6, we should all be jumping for joy while the Giants immediately submit the selection (Williams would be a dream).
Lock is the only QB at 6 I can get behind, as he has the size and physical ability (arm talent, athleticism) every team would want in a QB. He’s a perfect candidate to sit behind Eli, learn from the vet, while getting
work with Shurmur to develop.
(I wouldn’t take a QB at 6, but Lock I can understand the temptation. He makes a lot of “wow” throws and can move. Upside is tremendous.)
Lock and Jones are more more mobile than Haskins. Shurmur seems to want a mobile QB. I don't like Lock or Jones enough to trade up from #17 for either, but the Giants might.
Thank you, I’ve been trying to watch game clips to get excited by Haskins and I just don’t get it at all. Glad the giants seem to agree.
I did notice Paris Campbell a lot in his highlights. I’d love that wr at 37