Draft Lock, trade up for the defender

If I were the team and didn't like a guy enough to use our 6 on him, I would probably pass. But that means setting your sights on next year's QBs, and you don't just wing it --because they won't come cheap. Best to prepare for it to increases the chances at getting your guy. Which is why I would look to deal a '19 pick for a '20 pick --dealing our 37 for a 1 next year would be ideal.

I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck.

In comment 14391432 JonC said:

Quote:

this QB class is projected to be average at best. Listen to DG, he's not going to reach. Go where your draft board grades point you, and in this draft it's defense.

I only hope this is the case at #17 as well.

In comment 14391567 JonC said:

Quote:

I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck.

He was there. They just didn't draft him.

In comment 14391517 UberAlias said:

Quote:

In comment 14391508 jtgiants said: Quote: Is correct. Why can't u guys get it through your head. They are not going qb at 6. They are taking a guy they feel will impact the defense Because the QB is the single most important piece left to ensure consistent success the next 10-20 years. Fans don't want half measures. They've wasted valuable picks that way the past two years.

Dallas is good with a mediocre QB because they built a great OL, dominant run game, and quietly stockpiled a very good young defense ... basically the approach the giants should take until a prospect at qb comes along worthy of a top pick

In comment 14391581 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 14391567 JonC said: Quote: I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck. He was there. They just didn't draft him.

I love Darnold, but if they didn't believe in his ability to lead them to championships, I'll get behind Saquon to be a huge part of the solution.

In comment 14391567 JonC said:

Quote:

I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck.

Respectfully, why didn’t you think any of the quarterbacks last year could be Eli’s successor?

Agreed. So then you focus on controlling what you can control. Which is why I'd prepare for next year in the manner I described. They could still make big improvements to the D this year and position themselves well to make a legitimate run next year.

In comment 14391552 UberAlias said:

Quote:

If I were the team and didn't like a guy enough to use our 6 on him, I would probably pass. But that means setting your sights on next year's QBs, and you don't just wing it --because they won't come cheap. Best to prepare for it to increases the chances at getting your guy. Which is why I would look to deal a '19 pick for a '20 pick --dealing our 37 for a 1 next year would be ideal.

I could do that. I still prefer building it up this year by keeping our picks (other than bundling some low rounds for a mid round next year) and paying a bigger premium next year. I mentioned elsewhere that next year I would give up 3 successive #1's if necessary. Or something along those lines.

In comment 14391567 JonC said:

Quote:

I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck.

Or terrible evaluating? Draft analysts said last year was the best QB class since 2004. Other NFL teams seem to agree considering 1 went 1st overall and three other teams gave up a lot of draft capital for them.

Also it's just 1 evaluator, but he has 3 QBs with a higher grade then Mahomes coming out.

In comment 14391586 Giantsfanincuse said:

Quote:

In comment 14391567 JonC said: Quote: I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck. Respectfully, why didn’t you think any of the quarterbacks last year could be Eli’s successor?

I thought Darnold could be plenty good, but there was no elite blue chip QB prospect good enough for them to not pick Saquon. I'm a big BPA picker, I'm ok with it.

I don't think that's why they passed on him. If Eli had retired after 2017 I'd bet two paychecks that Darnold would have been the pick. But Eli wasn't going anywhere.

In comment 14391581 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 14391567 JonC said: Quote: I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck. He was there. They just didn't draft him.

Turnover machine Darnold, Josh Allen, and Rosen over Saquon would’ve been a mistake. Barkley is incredible, but I know some just can’t past the fact he has “RB” next to his name. They took the best player in the draft, stole a future stud G, and added 2 key pieces on defense. The 2018 draft was a great haul.

In comment 14391487 JonC said:

Quote:

I get your point but it's not based on any prospect evaluation.

He absolutely was not. In fact his grades were worse than Haskins Murray and lock....and went pick 12 I believe.

That stance certainly softened by the time it was draft night, at least by the draftniks I respect most. It was a nice soundbyte that didn't come to fruition.

Uber, I hear you, let's see if they make a move for 2020 draft capital.

Beacause none of those guys was close to the prospect Barkley is

In comment 14391596 Go Terps said:

Quote:

I don't think that's why they passed on him. If Eli had retired after 2017 I'd bet two paychecks that Darnold would have been the pick. But Eli wasn't going anywhere.

It's easy to bet something that can't be disproved. I would guess that they still would have gone Saquon and we now would have someone like Bridgewater or Keenan as our starting QB.

In comment 14391599 crooza172 said:

Quote:

In comment 14391487 JonC said: Quote: I get your point but it's not based on any prospect evaluation. He absolutely was not. In fact his grades were worse than Haskins Murray and lock....and went pick 12 I believe.

In my book Mahomes was better, you guys are overrating the 2019 QBs, imo. Time will tell.

This type of binary thinking that compels teams into taking a QB when they shouldn't. Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Blake Bortles etc.

In comment 14391599 crooza172 said:

Quote:

In comment 14391487 JonC said: Quote: I get your point but it's not based on any prospect evaluation. He absolutely was not. In fact his grades were worse than Haskins Murray and lock....and went pick 12 I believe.

I hope you realize that the number of prospects (at any position but QB included) that were predicted to be "not the best" or even outright bad, far, far dwarf the one guy who became Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes is in no way, shape or form, the paradigm.

is absolutely the rare exception to the rule, and by no means a likely occurrence.

but what even our own insiders have said it is possible to go defense at 6 and then trade up from 17 for a QB. What the OP is saying is why not reverse the order. There is much greater risk of missing out on a QB (if they like one enough) if the plan is to trade up from 17 then if you take them at 6. There are multiple defenders that can be had in a similar trade up and it is unlikely they would miss out. For example Bush and/or Burns could be there in the low teens and have every chance to be as good as a defender at 6.

Again, i would take defense at 6 and 17 (or OT at 17), but i see the logic especially if the Giants want a QB with their 2nd pick.

In comment 14391600 JonC said:

Quote:

That stance certainly softened by the time it was draft night, at least by the draftniks I respect most. It was a nice soundbyte that didn't come to fruition. Uber, I hear you, let's see if they make a move for 2020 draft capital.

I’d love for them to turn the 17th pick into more 2020 draft capital.

Wouldn’t even mind them moving down slightly from 6 unless Williams/Allen fall (Denver for Lock for example)

Expecting quite a bit of trading on draft day

In comment 14391609 Capt. Don said:

Quote:

This type of binary thinking that compels teams into taking a QB when they shouldn't. Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Blake Bortles etc.

And QBs like Mahomes, Goff, wentz, luck, Watson, Rodgers, Cam etc.....there are two sides to every argument. .

In comment 14391616 JonC said:

Quote:

is absolutely the rare exception to the rule, and by no means a likely occurrence.

Lock is the only guy in this class I’d roll the dice on at 6 if I had to go QB

Not saying he’ll be Mahomes, but he’s got that similar skill set to make the jaw dropping throws. Hopefully a team trades up in front of the giants and push down Williams or Allen

Ed Oliver in play? He’d be an interesting addition to this scheme

Some people here are going to flip out when the Giants pass on a QB at 6 and then go completely quiet if they trade up from 17 for a QB.

In comment 14391621 crooza172 said:

Quote:

In comment 14391609 Capt. Don said: Quote: This type of binary thinking that compels teams into taking a QB when they shouldn't. Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Blake Bortles etc. And QBs like Mahomes, Goff, wentz, luck, Watson, Rodgers, Cam etc.....there are two sides to every argument. .

and if prospects like those were available I’d be singing a different tune ... I will admit Tyree Jackson’s skill set has me intrigued (like round 3-4).

He’d definitely need to sit a year at least, but he’s got a very interesting skill set that can’t be taught

They'll try to say Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Haskins & Lock weren't worth the pick. Yet they are going to draft a guy in the top 20 who is the definition of average.

In comment 14391630 GothamGiants said:

Quote:

In comment 14391616 JonC said: Quote: is absolutely the rare exception to the rule, and by no means a likely occurrence. Lock is the only guy in this class I’d roll the dice on at 6 if I had to go QB Not saying he’ll be Mahomes, but he’s got that similar skill set to make the jaw dropping throws. Hopefully a team trades up in front of the giants and push down Williams or Allen Ed Oliver in play? He’d be an interesting addition to this scheme

Yes he is.

In comment 14391637 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

They'll try to say Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Haskins & Lock weren't worth the pick. Yet they are going to draft a guy in the top 20 who is the definition of average.

I don't love picking a QB at #17, on that we agree. While I preferred Darnold to SB, I can say they likely picked the better pure football player.

In comment 14391637 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

They'll try to say Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Haskins & Lock weren't worth the pick. Yet they are going to draft a guy in the top 20 who is the definition of average.

I would much rather have Saquon, a stud defensive prospect, and Daniel Jones than any of those QBs

In comment 14391647 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 14391630 GothamGiants said: Quote: In comment 14391616 JonC said: Quote: is absolutely the rare exception to the rule, and by no means a likely occurrence. Lock is the only guy in this class I’d roll the dice on at 6 if I had to go QB Not saying he’ll be Mahomes, but he’s got that similar skill set to make the jaw dropping throws. Hopefully a team trades up in front of the giants and push down Williams or Allen Ed Oliver in play? He’d be an interesting addition to this scheme Yes he is.

Good to know ... thank you. I’m sure Bettcher would have fun with a skill set like that

...or why the Hell have it in the first place.

In comment 14391653 GothamGiants said:

Quote:

In comment 14391637 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: They'll try to say Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Haskins & Lock weren't worth the pick. Yet they are going to draft a guy in the top 20 who is the definition of average. I would much rather have Saquon, a stud defensive prospect, and Daniel Jones than any of those QBs

Saquon is awesome. But you can find guys like Nick Chubb, Philip Lindsay later in the draft.

I'll gladly take Darnold, a stud defender at 6 & 17. Find a RB later in the draft. Just like we did when we won 2 SBs.

and move on was long ago.

In comment 14391432 JonC said:

Quote:

this QB class is projected to be average at best. Listen to DG, he's not going to reach. Go where your draft board grades point you, and in this draft it's defense.

^This. I hope we don't trade up from #17 for Lock, Haskins, or Jones. I know it's extremely unlikely, but I still view Rosen for #37 as the best QB option. That trade would ideally be married with a trade down from #17 to get extra day two picks, and maybe a pick next year.

In comment 14391683 JonC said:

Quote:

and move on was long ago.

Any insight on Dexter Lawrence? I want this guy in Giants blue, very badly.

In comment 14391693 GothamGiants said:

Quote:

In comment 14391683 JonC said: Quote: and move on was long ago. Any insight on Dexter Lawrence? I want this guy in Giants blue, very badly.

He and Wilkins are possibilities.

Let’s see what happens. All in all, you have to be excited for next week.

is a guy I’d trade up for from 17.

I tried not falling in love with any prospects and just letting it unfold (Barkley, Hernandez, Carter were all on my wish list last year), but Lawrence is just too good.

He better be a Giant or playing outside of the nfc east, that’s all I can hope for.

In comment 14391621 crooza172 said:

Quote:

In comment 14391609 Capt. Don said: Quote: This type of binary thinking that compels teams into taking a QB when they shouldn't. Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Blake Bortles etc. And QBs like Mahomes, Goff, wentz, luck, Watson, Rodgers, Cam etc.....there are two sides to every argument. .

You completely missed my point. The point is there is more to it than just liking him.

They may like a QB but may like another player more (even with position importance figured in).

They may like a QB but not in the 1st round. ie Drew Brees to the Chargers in the 2nd.

In comment 14391594 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 14391586 Giantsfanincuse said: Quote: In comment 14391567 JonC said: Quote: I want Eli's successor but unfortunately there hasn't been one in the Giants two trips to the top six of two drafts. Lousy luck. Respectfully, why didn’t you think any of the quarterbacks last year could be Eli’s successor? I thought Darnold could be plenty good, but there was no elite blue chip QB prospect good enough for them to not pick Saquon. I'm a big BPA picker, I'm ok with it.

Thanks, I appreciate the insight. It’s hard to understand quarterback evaluation as it’s so complex.... Barkley is obviously amazing. I give the team credit, there is so much pressure from the media etc to draft a qb. I think it takes a lot of guts to stick to the board and take the best player.

and he's exactly what you want in a foundational player and person.

I like Josh Allen’s upside, but just take Tyree Jackson this year and we’ve got similar “upside” in my eyes. Rosen we can have if we want him.

Mayfield was the only QB last year that gave me pause, but he wasn’t even an option so oh well we’re stuck with the 230 pound version of Marshall Faulk - I’ll take it

Do you think that character concerns would make it difficult for the giants to look at players like Simmons or Ferguson?

Last year a lot of people wanted a quarterback,they took Barkley

This year nobody wants a quarterback,so the next step is to take one.

But to my delight, the Giants have "heavily scouted" Will Grier. 2 defensive players in the first and Grier at 37? Yes please.

In comment 14391780 GiantGrit said:

Quote:

But to my delight, the Giants have "heavily scouted" Will Grier. 2 defensive players in the first and Grier at 37? Yes please.

I am glad to hear this too. Grier at 37 would make me very happy.

but the more i see the more his inaccuracy bothers me.

he can either be EXTREMELY accurate or consistently not accurate. Mahomes had soem of the same knocks but mahomes would complete those wild passes where Lock isn't.

idk, i just hope we make the right choice if we go QB this year.

So I'd pass on a QB till the middle rounds (day 3) who can be developed (groomed)