Why the hell would we go QB in this draft? I feel like these 5 guys are all going to be rated higher than any QB in this upcoming draft and we will have a shot at one of them with this many QBs coming out. I know things can change over the course of a year but I feel like any QB the Giants would take in this draft would be a complete reach. May not be a bad idea to package some of these picks this year for picks next year and trade up if need be to grab one of these studs.
Change my mind.
And next year, I'd take my picks and find a way to trade up to get one of those guys (like they did with Eli in 2004). And remember, they have $100M in cap space in 2020. If they are going to assume that they will use a number of picks to trade up to get a QB, they will then use that cap space to sign free agents to fill in and around the roster instead of using draft picks.
If I was Gettleman, that's my plan. It serves their purpose to put a team around Eli to win this year, but the reality is that they need to rebuild this team anyway, so all they really are doing is keeping Eli as a stopgap until they pull the trigger next year and try to plug in a young QB on a team with the best RB in the NFL, some solid veteran WRs, a good TE, a solid offensive line, and (hopefully) a strong defense in 2020. And then you take your chances with one of those QBs (Fromm, etc) and see if you can't win a title in the next 2-3 years.
Carl, you are certainly going to be in the minority on Tua. People are going to use the can't miss phrase on him. He will be the #1 pick next year as long as he doesn't get hurt. I've already seen some scouts saying that he's the best QB prospect that they have ever seen similar to Barkley last year.
If not, wait till next year as there will surely be a few good options.
No one knows how they've rated these players.
Also the Giants won’t be bad enough to finish with a top 5 pick to ensure they get a QB unless they are hit hard with injuries including Barkley. They would have to hope that the teams with a top 5 pick are willing to actually trade the pick. If the team needs a QB then they won’t obviously make the trade unless they receive an absurd offer.
The problem is he could have a below average year in 2019 like Stidham, Lock and Herbert had in 2018 and maybe he changes the thoughts that he is worthy of a 1st round pick. Or maybe that would be good as he will be available when we pick in round 1.
The QB debate will go on and on. Eventually they will need to add a young QB to develop with the hopes he can be as good a representative of the New York Football Giants as Eli has been.
Good luck to whom ever gets the baton.
With 12 picks they should be able to spread the wealth across rebuilding the D, 2 young OL, a WR to help replace Odell production, special teams.
Build the roster this year.
Move heaven and earth for the QB next year.
And next year, I'd take my picks and find a way to trade up to get one of those guys (like they did with Eli in 2004). And remember, they have $100M in cap space in 2020. If they are going to assume that they will use a number of picks to trade up to get a QB, they will then use that cap space to sign free agents to fill in and around the roster instead of using draft picks.
If I was Gettleman, that's my plan. It serves their purpose to put a team around Eli to win this year, but the reality is that they need to rebuild this team anyway, so all they really are doing is keeping Eli as a stopgap until they pull the trigger next year and try to plug in a young QB on a team with the best RB in the NFL, some solid veteran WRs, a good TE, a solid offensive line, and (hopefully) a strong defense in 2020. And then you take your chances with one of those QBs (Fromm, etc) and see if you can't win a title in the next 2-3 years.
Matt:
In 2004, the team bottomed out and moved up from 4 to 1. And the only reason they were even able to swing that deal was because they were in position to get SD the QB they wanted.
Supposedly, this team thinks it can compete and is trying to do so. Exactly how do we move up to the top 3/4 - if not higher - to get a QB if we are slated to draft at 15-20. I find it ironic that everyone is saying the Redskins can’t leapfrog us because they are too far back at 15, but they think it will be simple for us to move up next year. I’d love to hear the logic in that. Crickets.
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I've already seen some scouts saying that he's the best QB prospect that they have ever seen similar to Barkley last year.
The most praise I've heard for any college QB is for Lawrence from Clemson, and even for Lawrence they didn't say that, they said best since Luck.
Fromm - is an Alex Smith type, tough/feisty but pedestrian arm talent
Herbert - he's essentially Drew Lock
Eason - the jury is miles from the courthouse with this guy
Costello - seems like a solid prospect but far from anything blue chip; likely would have declared for the draft if he was optimistic about his 2019 draft outlook
Fromm - is an Alex Smith type, tough/feisty but pedestrian arm talent
Herbert - he's essentially Drew Lock
Eason - the jury is miles from the courthouse with this guy
Costello - seems like a solid prospect but far from anything blue chip; likely would have declared for the draft if he was optimistic about his 2019 draft outlook
Fromm is an Alex Smith type? How in the world did you draw that conclusion? 2 completely different QB's.
Both good (above average) athletes, neither elite in that regard.
Neither is a poor passer but arm talent merely adequate.
Both regarded as gamers: smart, tough etc.
Neither is a poor passer but arm talent merely adequate.
I don't agree with that at all in regards to Fromm's arm strength.
Justin Herbert looks like Reno Hightower,so they should wait and try to get him.
He has outstanding, unquestionable physical ability. He certainly struggled at times this year, but Herbert doesn't get out of the top 5 in this draft (or the 2020 draft).
Justin Herbert looks like Reno Hightower,so they should wait and try to get him.
Underrated move. "But the son of a bitch dropped it....I was that son of a bitch"
Alex Smith was never regarded as a great passer of the football, let alone even a good passer. He's always had a strong arm, but seeing the field wasn't his strength. He'd dink and dunk you to death, but he had much better athleticism to his game than Fromm. I'll always remember Jim Harbaugh using Smith to run sweeps to the outside on 3rd or 4th downs. In no way can Fromm execute that kind of play.
I can see a comparison to Carson Palmer or Matt Ryan, not Alex Smith.
Justin Herbert looks like Reno Hightower,so they should wait and try to get him.
likely this Giants regime drafts the guy that looks most like #99
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Matt:
In 2004, the team bottomed out and moved up from 4 to 1. And the only reason they were even able to swing that deal was because they were in position to get SD the QB they wanted.
Supposedly, this team thinks it can compete and is trying to do so. Exactly how do we move up to the top 3/4 - if not higher - to get a QB if we are slated to draft at 15-20. I find it ironic that everyone is saying the Redskins can’t leapfrog us because they are too far back at 15, but they think it will be simple for us to move up next year. I’d love to hear the logic in that. Crickets.
I never said the Redskins couldn't move up. The template is there. The Rams did it to get Goff. They moved from #15 up to #1.
To be honest, one strategy would be to draft Jones/Lock. They would get their defensive player at 6, and use the next pick on Jones/Lock. If the Giants play well in 2019 and end up picking in the middle rounds, they would have Jones/Lock with a year under his belt in the "KC Model" and look to let him start in 2020. If the Giants implode and shit the bed and pick in the top 5, to me that means the following
- The Giants sucked and they sat Eli as the season spiraled out of control and they played Jones to see what they had
- If they liked what they saw, they let Jones/Lock continue to develop
- If Jones showed he's nothing more than an average to slightly above average QB, they pull the trigger on one of the big QBs and probably trade Jones/Lock (see Rosen).
Personally, I would rather use my draft assets in the mid first round to get me a sure fire defensive player or offensive lineman rather than hope Jones/Lock turns into something. This team has so many damn holes everywhere that I would want to rebuild the entire foundation and set the team up so whatever young QB does come in here actually has a solid team around him that can cover up for the expected rookie mistakes. See Dak in 2016.
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In comment 14391772 Matt in SGS said:
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Matt:
In 2004, the team bottomed out and moved up from 4 to 1. And the only reason they were even able to swing that deal was because they were in position to get SD the QB they wanted.
Supposedly, this team thinks it can compete and is trying to do so. Exactly how do we move up to the top 3/4 - if not higher - to get a QB if we are slated to draft at 15-20. I find it ironic that everyone is saying the Redskins can’t leapfrog us because they are too far back at 15, but they think it will be simple for us to move up next year. I’d love to hear the logic in that. Crickets.
I never said the Redskins couldn't move up. The template is there. The Rams did it to get Goff. They moved from #15 up to #1.
To be honest, one strategy would be to draft Jones/Lock. They would get their defensive player at 6, and use the next pick on Jones/Lock. If the Giants play well in 2019 and end up picking in the middle rounds, they would have Jones/Lock with a year under his belt in the "KC Model" and look to let him start in 2020. If the Giants implode and shit the bed and pick in the top 5, to me that means the following
- The Giants sucked and they sat Eli as the season spiraled out of control and they played Jones to see what they had
- If they liked what they saw, they let Jones/Lock continue to develop
- If Jones showed he's nothing more than an average to slightly above average QB, they pull the trigger on one of the big QBs and probably trade Jones/Lock (see Rosen).
Personally, I would rather use my draft assets in the mid first round to get me a sure fire defensive player or offensive lineman rather than hope Jones/Lock turns into something. This team has so many damn holes everywhere that I would want to rebuild the entire foundation and set the team up so whatever young QB does come in here actually has a solid team around him that can cover up for the expected rookie mistakes. See Dak in 2016.
I've been on this train since before day 1. I was born on this train.
Alex Smith was never regarded as a great passer of the football, let alone even a good passer. He's always had a strong arm, but seeing the field wasn't his strength. He'd dink and dunk you to death, but he had much better athleticism to his game than Fromm. I'll always remember Jim Harbaugh using Smith to run sweeps to the outside on 3rd or 4th downs. In no way can Fromm execute that kind of play.
I can see a comparison to Carson Palmer or Matt Ryan, not Alex Smith.
I don't think has close to a Palmer or Ryan arm.
There are no guarantees. If they like the QB this year then they should take one!
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First, I think the fact that Fromm is only a true sophomore, and that he's the leader of that team is outstanding. He already looks like he has great technique, a great head for the game, sees the field well, and he has more than enough arm strength and accuracy.
Alex Smith was never regarded as a great passer of the football, let alone even a good passer. He's always had a strong arm, but seeing the field wasn't his strength. He'd dink and dunk you to death, but he had much better athleticism to his game than Fromm. I'll always remember Jim Harbaugh using Smith to run sweeps to the outside on 3rd or 4th downs. In no way can Fromm execute that kind of play.
I can see a comparison to Carson Palmer or Matt Ryan, not Alex Smith.
I don't think has close to a Palmer or Ryan arm.
Maybe, maybe not, but again, the kid is just a sophomore, and he plays like a senior. I just think another year or two for him to get stronger, he's going to be a great prospect.
There are no guarantees. If they like the QB this year then they should take one!
Your scenario is just so unlikely. The likelihood of the Giants being a playoff team is not great. It's more likely the Giants will naturally he in position, but it's also why I've advocated for a trade down this year to get more picks next year for draft capital.
And whoever said K.J. Costello is a 3rd rounder right now is just goofy.
He'd be a first rounder just this year. Over 65% completion at Stanford with 29-11, over 3500 yards passing and went 9-4. As a junior, 2nd year as starter.
I'd be willing to bet he gets even better next year, and he could go #1 when all is said and done, or him and Fromm go 1-2. He's a prototype guy, as well.
Look forward to watching more of Eason and Costello
Two that aren't spoken about as much are Costello and Eason. Both of these guys have tremendous skill. Costello I think fits the prototypical Giants qb, but is athletic. We'll see how those two progress in 2019.
Whoever said Costello is a third rounder, hasn't watched him.
Marcus Mariota, maybe?
In 2004, the team bottomed out and moved up from 4 to 1. And the only reason they were even able to swing that deal was because they were in position to get SD the QB they wanted.
Supposedly, this team thinks it can compete and is trying to do so. Exactly how do we move up to the top 3/4 - if not higher - to get a QB if we are slated to draft at 15-20. I find it ironic that everyone is saying the Redskins can’t leapfrog us because they are too far back at 15, but they think it will be simple for us to move up next year. I’d love to hear the logic in that. Crickets.
Agree 100%. If they like a guy this year, take him. I keep reading, build draft capital for next year while building the defense this year - use at least 2 if not all 3 of the first picks on defense. Unless they're picking 5th or higher next year, the starting price tag to move up to somewhere in the top 3 is likely going to be 2 first round picks. The only way to build that type of draft capital for next year is by trading 1.17 or the 2nd rounder.
In addition, while on paper the draft class next year may seem more attractive, you never know what will happen once those players are put under the draft microscope.
If they don't like anybody this year, so be it, don't force it. However, to just assume that it'll be easy to grab a better prospect next year is not wise. If they think Lock, Jones or Haskins is a 1st round talent they shouldn't screw around.
Also the Giants won’t be bad enough to finish with a top 5 pick to ensure they get a QB unless they are hit hard with injuries including Barkley. They would have to hope that the teams with a top 5 pick are willing to actually trade the pick. If the team needs a QB then they won’t obviously make the trade unless they receive an absurd offer.
The Giants could be bad enough.
Hebert with all of his deficiencies would be the first QB drafted this year , Tua compares favorably to Murray, Fromm could end up being the best of the group
It would have to be a set of extraordinary circumstances in order to pass on a QB that you feel could be it.
Also,Herbert going back to school could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.Maybe he's not the guy.
And next year, I'd take my picks and find a way to trade up to get one of those guys (like they did with Eli in 2004). And remember, they have $100M in cap space in 2020. If they are going to assume that they will use a number of picks to trade up to get a QB, they will then use that cap space to sign free agents to fill in and around the roster instead of using draft picks.
If I was Gettleman, that's my plan. It serves their purpose to put a team around Eli to win this year, but the reality is that they need to rebuild this team anyway, so all they really are doing is keeping Eli as a stopgap until they pull the trigger next year and try to plug in a young QB on a team with the best RB in the NFL, some solid veteran WRs, a good TE, a solid offensive line, and (hopefully) a strong defense in 2020. And then you take your chances with one of those QBs (Fromm, etc) and see if you can't win a title in the next 2-3 years.
Works for me.
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In comment 14391817 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14391772 Matt in SGS said:
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Matt:
In 2004, the team bottomed out and moved up from 4 to 1. And the only reason they were even able to swing that deal was because they were in position to get SD the QB they wanted.
Supposedly, this team thinks it can compete and is trying to do so. Exactly how do we move up to the top 3/4 - if not higher - to get a QB if we are slated to draft at 15-20. I find it ironic that everyone is saying the Redskins can’t leapfrog us because they are too far back at 15, but they think it will be simple for us to move up next year. I’d love to hear the logic in that. Crickets.
I never said the Redskins couldn't move up. The template is there. The Rams did it to get Goff. They moved from #15 up to #1.
To be honest, one strategy would be to draft Jones/Lock. They would get their defensive player at 6, and use the next pick on Jones/Lock. If the Giants play well in 2019 and end up picking in the middle rounds, they would have Jones/Lock with a year under his belt in the "KC Model" and look to let him start in 2020. If the Giants implode and shit the bed and pick in the top 5, to me that means the following
- The Giants sucked and they sat Eli as the season spiraled out of control and they played Jones to see what they had
- If they liked what they saw, they let Jones/Lock continue to develop
- If Jones showed he's nothing more than an average to slightly above average QB, they pull the trigger on one of the big QBs and probably trade Jones/Lock (see Rosen).
Personally, I would rather use my draft assets in the mid first round to get me a sure fire defensive player or offensive lineman rather than hope Jones/Lock turns into something. This team has so many damn holes everywhere that I would want to rebuild the entire foundation and set the team up so whatever young QB does come in here actually has a solid team around him that can cover up for the expected rookie mistakes. See Dak in 2016.
I've been on this train since before day 1. I was born on this train.
Seconded.
There’s nothing wrong with waiting a year or two “longer” before adding the young qb to the mix. You obviously can’t kick the can down the road forever but you also don’t need to panic and add the qb as fast as possible; so to speak.
Reality check...
The team is coming of season of 3-13, and 5-11
In other words, its a BAAAAD team
4 of the 5 wins came against backup QBs, and teams that were generally very banged up at the time.
They still have don't have anything resembling a decent RT or C.
They have seriously downgraded at WR
They traded their only edge rusher for an upgrade at RG (yes Zeitler is a significant upgrade at RG and a good piece for the future, so don't misconstrue this, however C and RT are much more desperate needs and Brown could have been resigned)
There is only 1 proven CB on the team and he is an aging headcase...
Safety, not sure, Peppers will provide a decent replacement for Collins, and honestly Bethea is so old I didn't even realize he would still be playing, not sure what to expect from him...
There is nothing of note at linebacker... I want to say they are hot garbage, but honestly that is overstating it, but they aren't good...
They have 3 DLs whose best position is the 3 tech, none are naturally 0/1 techs or 5/7 techs.
There is nobody to rush the passer, as stated before the only ER was traded away.
Yeah the draft will bring some reinforcements, but theyare still rookies, and maybe Remmers signs and is healthy enough to play a decent RT, maybe.
Remember this team was 1-7 at the midway point last year, and looked absolutely hopeless. If not for being very fortunate to get a bunch of backup QBs, its hard to see that team would have been any better than the 3-11 team the year before. And its hard at this point for me to see much improvement anywhere on this team. The defense that was soft last year, looks like tissue paper this year.
It looks like another 5-11 season to me...
Which should result in another top 10 pick!
But I also advocate trading down this year and picking up more high picks next year. That may help in a package to move up.
In addition, the #2 next year, and a future #1, players from the roster, even if it take 2 future #1s to get your guy, then that's what you do. If you really want to move up in the draft it can be done. Where there is a will, there is a way. People who fret about that might as well be fretting about whether or not the sun is going to rise tomorrow...
Any number of circumstances can transpire between now and 2020. The Giants have the picks this year to draft a bonafide first round QB -- if the value meets the picks -- they should.
As we all know, the draft process separates the men from the boys. The list of QBs graded highly will look very different 365 days from now.
It's like the guy who never commits because there might be some hotter, better girl out there. Maybe Margot Robbie is just waiting out there for you. Or maybe you end up old, fat, and alone.
Practically it just makes too much sense; two first-round picks, a lame duck QB, a coach whose specialty is QBs, and an incredibly young team.
I’m all about “best player available”, so I use this draft to rebuild the defense and get back to being a fun first team that plays defense (it still wins, despite the “passing league” cliches).
Let Eli and the dust fall where it may. I wouldn’t be shocked if they contended for a wildcard spot, depending on how they handle the draft. If Eli still can’t get it done with an improved OL and improved defense not blowing games left and right - he’s gone and thank you for everything
Don’t draft for need. Draft to the strength of the class available to you. This year is so loaded on defense we could rebuild the unit next weekend back to respectability if they hit on picks as well as last year. 2020 you go “all in” (2020 and 2021 picks in trade) for a guy like Fromm. You can afford to give those picks because you’ve addressed the D this year, the offense is essentially set, and you’ll have a ton of cap to fill the needs surrounding your young “franchise QB”
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with a ton of cap space in case they've got eyes for a QB(s).
Marcus Mariota, maybe?
Dunno. He's taken a beating in the NFL and seems to have trouble diagnosing defenses, so far.
LOOOOOOOL!!!! You watched Herbert in college this past season and were impressed by him!? Coming into this season he was projected to take the next step and be the #1 overall pick. He ended up being literally pathetic. Let's see what he does this upcoming season but the way he played this past yr he's not a franchise QB and DEFINITELY not a top 3 QB
prospect in the 2020 class.