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| The giants and bills have discussed a deal to move up to #9 for jones. I'm told it's more likely they just take Jones at six. reason being is the giants think both washington and Cincinatti want Jones as well. Giants may still trade up to 9 if they take Jones at six for either a defensive player or hockenson. They've fielded calls on Engram as they dont see him as a fit in a powerfootball esque offense. Remmers is a done deal as long as the giants are pleased with the results of his physical. Contract details all worked out as I already told you. |
Jones better be the second coming if you take him at 6. I get Bortles-ish vibes with this guy.
He’s not a top 10-15 guy, and I couldn’t care less what “NFL people” think of the guy. If you watched the Duke games last year, his ball placement - even on many passes he completed - was poor. There isn’t anything he does particularly well.
Picking a guy because of his coach - or his Eli/Peyton connection is sheer stupidity. People are ignoring this because the Giants May be picking Jones because Eli will have an easier time accepting it due to his relationship with Jones. I don’t believe Jones would be considered anywhere near the first if he had not been coached by Cutcliffe. That makes him a huge red flag. Pick the guy because of what you think he can do, not who coached him. I feel like teams love the coach more than the player and are picking him for that reason.
Good Jon, hope it’s defense at 6 and trade up is also defense.
Not trying to put anyone down but which opinion is more meaningful if true?
Just because NFL teams like a player doesn’t mean they are right. As I said in my other post, I feel they love his coach, not him. I really can’t remember the last time I heard a coach mentioned more than the actual QB prospect when evaluating the actual prospect. It’s absurd.
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there is a great divide between the opinion of Jones on BBI and the opinion of Jones in NFL circles.
Not trying to put anyone down but which opinion is more meaningful if true?
Just because NFL teams like a player doesn’t mean they are right. As I said in my other post, I feel they love his coach, not him. I really can’t remember the last time I heard a coach mentioned more than the actual QB prospect when evaluating the actual prospect. It’s absurd.
But what truth is there to any of this? It's just your opinion and could be miles away from the truth.
As far as EE is concerned, yes, he was yet another one of Reese's "measurables" guys, but as a receiving TE his speed is unmatched. He can really threaten the middle of the field, and run away from defenders. I'd be loathe to trade him, especially after his performance at the end of the year, and because he's still on his rookie contract.
Engram wasn't a "measurables" guy. He was insanely productive for four years at Ole Miss.
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film I've seen on Jones, he appears to be a very smart, dink-and-dunk QB with an average arm, decent mobility. Personally, I don't see top 10 talent there.
He’s not a top 10-15 guy, and I couldn’t care less what “NFL people” think of the guy. If you watched the Duke games last year, his ball placement - even on many passes he completed - was poor. There isn’t anything he does particularly well.
Picking a guy because of his coach - or his Eli/Peyton connection is sheer stupidity. People are ignoring this because the Giants May be picking Jones because Eli will have an easier time accepting it due to his relationship with Jones. I don’t believe Jones would be considered anywhere near the first if he had not been coached by Cutcliffe. That makes him a huge red flag. Pick the guy because of what you think he can do, not who coached him. I feel like teams love the coach more than the player and are picking him for that reason.
So you don't care what the people who are actual professionals in scouting, who have seen Jones in private workouts, who have interviewed him and his coaches, say? You would rather go by you watching a Duke game or two on CBS? I think this summarizes the youtube generation perfectly.
Spending two 1st rd picks on offense with the current state of the Giants defense would be foolish in my opinion.
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film I've seen on Jones, he appears to be a very smart, dink-and-dunk QB with an average arm, decent mobility. Personally, I don't see top 10 talent there.
^This. And I've seen a lot of Jones's games. I live near Baltimore. The ACC is on all the time in my area. Jones suffered from a bad OL and tons of drops by his receivers. He's also a tough kid to take all that pounding. But he's pretty much as you described. I would also add that his deep ball frequently floats because he puts too much arc on his downfield throws.
If you want an ACC QB that's smart, tough and mobile with an average arm, get Dungey from SU. 5th or 6th round pick. I can't see Jones as a 1st rounder, much less top 10.
Using 2 first round picks in the past 3 years on TEs would be an enormous waste of draft resources, IMO. Especially considering how good this draft is for defensive players and how horrible the Giants are on defense.
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In comment 14391966 Eric from BBI said:
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film I've seen on Jones, he appears to be a very smart, dink-and-dunk QB with an average arm, decent mobility. Personally, I don't see top 10 talent there.
He’s not a top 10-15 guy, and I couldn’t care less what “NFL people” think of the guy. If you watched the Duke games last year, his ball placement - even on many passes he completed - was poor. There isn’t anything he does particularly well.
Picking a guy because of his coach - or his Eli/Peyton connection is sheer stupidity. People are ignoring this because the Giants May be picking Jones because Eli will have an easier time accepting it due to his relationship with Jones. I don’t believe Jones would be considered anywhere near the first if he had not been coached by Cutcliffe. That makes him a huge red flag. Pick the guy because of what you think he can do, not who coached him. I feel like teams love the coach more than the player and are picking him for that reason.
So you don't care what the people who are actual professionals in scouting, who have seen Jones in private workouts, who have interviewed him and his coaches, say? You would rather go by you watching a Duke game or two on CBS? I think this summarizes the youtube generation perfectly.
I form my own opinions. I’ve watched NFL people be wrong enough times to not trust them blindly simply because they have titles. Reese was a GM and screwed the pooch. In Reese We Trust, right? How’d that work out. I watched 6 or 7 Duke games and was not impressed. That NFL people love his coach does nothing for me. I’ll root for him if the Giants take him. But it’s not the guy I want us to pick.
I don’t expect you to care about my opinion. Nor should you. But you’d do well to form your own and not listen to what scouts tell you to think.
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course teams are more interested in Jones, Lock, and Haskins than they should be. They convince themselves these are better than they originally thought because they're desperate for a QB. Teams overvalue QBs every year out of desperation. Remember Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel?
As far as EE is concerned, yes, he was yet another one of Reese's "measurables" guys, but as a receiving TE his speed is unmatched. He can really threaten the middle of the field, and run away from defenders. I'd be loathe to trade him, especially after his performance at the end of the year, and because he's still on his rookie contract.
Engram wasn't a "measurables" guy. He was insanely productive for four years at Ole Miss.
Yes, he was extremely productive, but not as a blocker. He's basically a giant (no pun intended) WR.
Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
Gettleman is too smart to make such an egregious error with the future of this team... I have to believe this thread is either a smokescreen attempting to get another team to move up to take him, allowing a top talent to fall to us, OR, it is just another "week before the draft" run of the mill trolling expedition...
Either way, I wish I could get these ten minutes of my life back...
Was he outed as a fraud?
Because his 1st post imfo seems to be panning out- isn’t all of this now widely accepted? And he was first one with the Remmers info because everyone up until that point believed JTs info that Remmers was a sign on day of visit or it would not happen. He also had the Rosen info which seems to be accepted by the Ralph V etc types.
Asshat Info
onetimeasshat : 4/1/2019 10:54 am
Take this for whatever it's worth.
1) Remmers has agreed to terms with the Giants. He cannot pass a physical. Once he can he's signing a 2 yr deal with the Giants. They anticipate he'll be healthy by early May.
2) The giants are interested in Rosen but will not part with one of their top 3 picks. I was told they would offer this years 3 and a future conditional 3. The biggest fear with the Giants is acquiring Rosen is an immediate QB controversy. It would start in OTA's both in the media and locker room. Conversely, a guy like Jones or lock the fans and media will understand needs time to sit.
3) The Giants are going defense with their first pick. Williams will be the pick if he falls (same with allen or bosa) If he's gone the Giants like, in order, White, Burns, Gary.
4) The Giants love Greedy Williams and will take him at 17 if he's on the board.
5) Some free agents they're in contract with. Shane Ray, Mohammad Wilkerson and Danny Shelton. Nothing will happen before the draft.
6) If the giants go offense in the first two rounds it will be a big body WR or a QB. With remmers in the fold the giants will wait til rounds 3 and 4 to bolster their depth.
Flame away
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In comment 14391994 AcidTest said:
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course teams are more interested in Jones, Lock, and Haskins than they should be. They convince themselves these are better than they originally thought because they're desperate for a QB. Teams overvalue QBs every year out of desperation. Remember Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel?
As far as EE is concerned, yes, he was yet another one of Reese's "measurables" guys, but as a receiving TE his speed is unmatched. He can really threaten the middle of the field, and run away from defenders. I'd be loathe to trade him, especially after his performance at the end of the year, and because he's still on his rookie contract.
Engram wasn't a "measurables" guy. He was insanely productive for four years at Ole Miss.
Yes, he was extremely productive, but not as a blocker. He's basically a giant (no pun intended) WR.
That's another argument entirely. The fact remains that you called him one of JR's "measurables guys," a la Adrien Robinson, for example, which was absolutely not the case.
It doesn't matter if he is a top-10 talent, whatever that means. He is a QB and if the Giants decide he is a future franchise qb for them, then they must take him at 6. If they have the conviction in a qb he is ipso facto worth a top draft selection. That is the nfl today. You do not judge qbs on the same scale as DTs and LBs and RBs. They are their own category.
Remmer's deal is not done/signed, yet.
This is 100% true.
Alas, Jones is the wrong idea in so many ways. And it gives me even more concern that Gettleman does not know how to evaluate the QB position.
Trust me. You've seen all you need to see.
Jones is an interesting prospect. Would be a good fit for a warm weather team or an indoor team. His true value is round three, maybe late round two.
I struggle to think of a more overrated player in this draft right now...
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In comment 14392012 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14391994 AcidTest said:
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course teams are more interested in Jones, Lock, and Haskins than they should be. They convince themselves these are better than they originally thought because they're desperate for a QB. Teams overvalue QBs every year out of desperation. Remember Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel?
As far as EE is concerned, yes, he was yet another one of Reese's "measurables" guys, but as a receiving TE his speed is unmatched. He can really threaten the middle of the field, and run away from defenders. I'd be loathe to trade him, especially after his performance at the end of the year, and because he's still on his rookie contract.
Engram wasn't a "measurables" guy. He was insanely productive for four years at Ole Miss.
Yes, he was extremely productive, but not as a blocker. He's basically a giant (no pun intended) WR.
That's another argument entirely. The fact remains that you called him one of JR's "measurables guys," a la Adrien Robinson, for example, which was absolutely not the case.
I respect your opinion, but don't agree. He's at best a marginal blocker, which was well known at the time. But I also said I oppose trading him despite that because he stretches the field. And I never compared him to Adrien Robinson.
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If we're taking a QB at #6 he should be starting from the outset.
This is 100% true.
Alas, Jones is the wrong idea in so many ways. And it gives me even more concern that Gettleman does not know how to evaluate the QB position.
No.. a rookie heir apparent at qb should start when he is ready. In most cases that is not week 1. They usually need time to catch up to the speed of the game. Very few rookie qbs are ready week 1. But if we draft Jones andhe ready week 4, then yes he must start then.
He must feel confident that his back will be ok.
It would be very funny, that the 1st 2 picks go offense....
If that does happen, i sure hope DG find enough gems to secure the defense both at stopping the run and disrupting the pass....neither of which was very effective last year
He must feel confident that his back will be ok.
It would be very funny, that the 1st 2 picks go offense....
If that does happen, i sure hope DG find enough gems to secure the defense both at stopping the run and disrupting the pass....neither of which was very effective last year
Don't think Remmers did any visits before us. He sucks. Doubt anybody else wants him.
Trade #37 for Rosen.
# asshat
Ducking....
I'm hopeful they hang onto Engram; I know he isnt a complete TE but he really started to run away from people last year.
Hasn’t the Remmers info been accepted as true?
I have loved every move (minus Stewart) since Gettleman’s return, but this approach would be mind blowing - in the worst way
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He's the only person that has mentioned Remmers being a done deal. His last sentence gave him away. This thread should be deleted.
Hasn’t the Remmers info been accepted as true?
Not that I know of. Jt just said a deal isn't done. Onetimeasshat is the only one who gave us contract details.
2. Options discussed in the draft room change, evolve and get war gamed. Until the last few hours before the draft, the plan can and does change.
3. If you disagree with (1) and/or (2)... the irrefutable fact is that EVERYONE genuinely involved in making decisions during the draft lies.
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He's the only person that has mentioned Remmers being a done deal. His last sentence gave him away. This thread should be deleted.
Hasn’t the Remmers info been accepted as true?
Especially him saying "as I already told you" to me that's a very clear give away that's him. He's the only one whose mentioned numbers with Remmers.
You didn't have to mention Robinson by name. He's the quintessential JR "measurables" guy, a label you stuck on Engram, which was, again, incorrect due to his college production. You said nothing, initially, about Engram's blocking. Your suggestion was that JR drafted him simply because he was fast.
+1
Oh okay. Thank you.