One thing that stood out to me is that when DG was talking about lead dogs on defense, he mentioned a bunch of guys but not Jenkins. Kinda surprised that your #1 CB isn’t a lead dog and makes me wonder if he is the player in the rumored potential trade.
Vernon and Jenkins will not be remembered as “Giants” in a few years
Fix the pass rush, that’s all that matters on defense anymore. Stuff the run, hit the QB, hope the refs don’t throw more than 1 or 2 pass interference calls. That’s 2019 NFL defense - only thing that still is applicable is the disruptive defensive line
The One player contract wise that makes sense to trade is Jenkins. QF course it creates a huge roster issue, but he has an expiring contract and can help a trma win right now.
I have him penciled in as a trade deadline candidate should the Giants open the season once Again with a miserable record.
Then he gets extended and is one of the hardest workers in the room
Then he gets extended and is one of the hardest workers in the room
Some of us were right about Beckham.
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This is a forum that was speculating with joy that shep would get moved for culture reasons just because he is a friend of obj.
Then he gets extended and is one of the hardest workers in the room
Some of us were right about Beckham.
Right about what? I still don’t get it actually- like what vindicates someone for being negative on him?
As a wr he led the team to the playoffs (and then fckd up massively)
Got hurt the next year because of a shit high throw over the middle - and the rest is history - the team has been dog shit since
Yup, totally agree.
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This is a forum that was speculating with joy that shep would get moved for culture reasons just because he is a friend of obj.
Then he gets extended and is one of the hardest workers in the room
Some of us were right about Beckham.
When your solution to everything is to trade the player for picks, eventually you will be right. Didn’t you want to trade Strahan for a mid round pick in August 2007?
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In comment 14392941 hitdog42 said:
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This is a forum that was speculating with joy that shep would get moved for culture reasons just because he is a friend of obj.
Then he gets extended and is one of the hardest workers in the room
Some of us were right about Beckham.
Right about what? I still don’t get it actually- like what vindicates someone for being negative on him?
As a wr he led the team to the playoffs (and then fckd up massively)
Got hurt the next year because of a shit high throw over the middle - and the rest is history - the team has been dog shit since
They weren’t that great with him either. The defense and a lot of good fortune led to that playoff campaign. The offense was nothing to write home about aside from a big OBJ play here or there. Beckham will be better served on a team with a QB that will tell him to shut the hell up when he is demanding the ball all the time. One of the biggest flaws with Eli throughout his career has been his inability to play with “big personalities”. It didn’t workout with Shockey, OBJ, hell throw Tiki in there as well. Burress had his issues but I don’t remember him being as whiny when he wasn’t getting the ball as Shockey and OBJ.
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In comment 14392941 hitdog42 said:
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This is a forum that was speculating with joy that shep would get moved for culture reasons just because he is a friend of obj.
Then he gets extended and is one of the hardest workers in the room
Some of us were right about Beckham.
When your solution to everything is to trade the player for picks, eventually you will be right. Didn’t you want to trade Strahan for a mid round pick in August 2007?
I was wrong about Strahan, but it isn't my solution for everything. I wanted Beckham gone because he was a selfish loser. That was borne out to be true.
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In comment 14392942 Go Terps said:
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In comment 14392941 hitdog42 said:
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This is a forum that was speculating with joy that shep would get moved for culture reasons just because he is a friend of obj.
Then he gets extended and is one of the hardest workers in the room
Some of us were right about Beckham.
When your solution to everything is to trade the player for picks, eventually you will be right. Didn’t you want to trade Strahan for a mid round pick in August 2007?
I was wrong about Strahan, but it isn't my solution for everything. I wanted Beckham gone because he was a selfish loser. That was borne out to be true.
And we wouldn’t have called $trahan a selfish loser until the end of that season? It’s all perspective. For this team’s sake, I hope you’re right about Beckham and I also hope Gettleman and company can capitalize on the unique opportunities in front of them in the next 12-15 months.
It is a fact he’s a quirky and polarizing personality — it is opinion that he MAY have had some negative impact culturally- as most of his teammates that speak up liked him
The only thing that would prove someone right would be the browns blowing up next year and underachieving whilenhaving the look ofnentitled babies
If that happens I would fully buy into the narrative
My interpretation of DG's "Lead Dog" encompasses all of the above.
Giving Jenkins the benefit of the doubt, he has too many distractions to be a Lead Dog.
But he still can make a very valuable contribution to the team.
It is a fact he’s a quirky and polarizing personality — it is opinion that he MAY have had some negative impact culturally- as most of his teammates that speak up liked him
The only thing that would prove someone right would be the browns blowing up next year and underachieving whilenhaving the look ofnentitled babies
If that happens I would fully buy into the narrative
The burden of proof lies with Beckham to show he's something other than what he's been. The Giants were a loser with him on the field too, but he had no issues referring to himself as great and acting like an ass. Maybe he turns it around, but whatever happens his legacy as a Giant is the boat trip and his general foolishness.
But it's not all on him, though. Jenkins was part of the bad culture.
They'd have won less games if he wasn't here from '14 to '18. They don't sniff the playoffs in '16 without him, and he was the only person associated with this franchise the last two years that could actually cash his paycheck and not feel guilty.
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That during his time on the team- the giants were better with him playing on the field then not - its a fact the one year that they made the playoffs- his offensive play was the lone bright spot on that side of the ball
It is a fact he’s a quirky and polarizing personality — it is opinion that he MAY have had some negative impact culturally- as most of his teammates that speak up liked him
The only thing that would prove someone right would be the browns blowing up next year and underachieving whilenhaving the look ofnentitled babies
If that happens I would fully buy into the narrative
The burden of proof lies with Beckham to show he's something other than what he's been. The Giants were a loser with him on the field too, but he had no issues referring to himself as great and acting like an ass. Maybe he turns it around, but whatever happens his legacy as a Giant is the boat trip and his general foolishness.
But it's not all on him, though. Jenkins was part of the bad culture.
The burden of proof is to prove your theory wrong? lol that's rich
If the perennial losers the browns are competitive with a rookie HC and a 2nd year hit head QB, I think you will definitely be proven wrong.
It is a fact he’s a quirky and polarizing personality — it is opinion that he MAY have had some negative impact culturally- as most of his teammates that speak up liked him
The only thing that would prove someone right would be the browns blowing up next year and underachieving whilenhaving the look ofnentitled babies
If that happens I would fully buy into the narrative
You underestimate the power of a culture change. The environment of the locker room is changing. More character. Create a strong locker room behind the scenes and it will translate on Sundays. Adopting a page from Belichick.
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That during his time on the team- the giants were better with him playing on the field then not - its a fact the one year that they made the playoffs- his offensive play was the lone bright spot on that side of the ball
It is a fact he’s a quirky and polarizing personality — it is opinion that he MAY have had some negative impact culturally- as most of his teammates that speak up liked him
The only thing that would prove someone right would be the browns blowing up next year and underachieving whilenhaving the look ofnentitled babies
If that happens I would fully buy into the narrative
You underestimate the power of a culture change. The environment of the locker room is changing. More character. Create a strong locker room behind the scenes and it will translate on Sundays. Adopting a page from Belichick.
You obviously have never seen my nets narrative for 3 yrs on hoops threads
That’s all I talk about Is culture
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In comment 14392963 hitdog42 said:
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That during his time on the team- the giants were better with him playing on the field then not - its a fact the one year that they made the playoffs- his offensive play was the lone bright spot on that side of the ball
It is a fact he’s a quirky and polarizing personality — it is opinion that he MAY have had some negative impact culturally- as most of his teammates that speak up liked him
The only thing that would prove someone right would be the browns blowing up next year and underachieving whilenhaving the look ofnentitled babies
If that happens I would fully buy into the narrative
You underestimate the power of a culture change. The environment of the locker room is changing. More character. Create a strong locker room behind the scenes and it will translate on Sundays. Adopting a page from Belichick.
You obviously have never seen my nets narrative for 3 yrs on hoops threads
That’s all I talk about Is culture
Due to his immense talent they extended him a ridiculous amount of rope. He hung himself with it. It was time to move on and they did. DG is going the right way with this overhaul. The character has changed improved tremendously in that locker room. Sterling is a great character guy and was one of the few that was kept.
...so we can have a roster without one legitimate NFL cornerback.
Sounds like a plan to me.
Exactly.
Let's look at the questions Gettleman was asked and his replies:
A: Ogletree. Alec. Our two safeties that we brought in, Antoine and Jabrill. Antoine has been a lead dog. We are getting there.
So he mentions Ogletree right away, and rightfully so. He's a veteran, a team captain last year who also wore the headset and called the plays. No brainer. Next he mentioned Bethea and Peppers - clearly pleased with his new acquisitions, no doubt both are fresh in his mind - but singling out the veteran Bethea as a "lead dog" in the past. Note: the other defensive captain from last year was Landon Collins, now a Redskin. My guess is that Gettleman hopes that Peppers will assume Collins' mantle as a leader (and captain), but wisely chose not to anoint him as such this early in the game.
A: Listen, we are thrilled with B.J. and we are thrilled with Dalvin. We have to keep adding to that mix. The young guys on the outside, Lorenzo made a lot of strides last year. We are getting there. It doesn’t happen overnight.
The follow-up question had to do with the front seven, and was less about leadership and more about performance, playmaking. More about being pleased with two of the guys he drafted last year - Hill and Carter - along with Tomlinson's transition to NT. That's all.
No one asked him any follow-up questions about the secondary. The conversation moved on into other directions. But I don't think Gettleman not mentioning Janoris Jenkins by name says anything more than him not mentioning B.J. Goodson or Kareem Martin does. And in truth, I really don't expect to find "lead dogs" at CB any more than I expect to find them at WR.
That's not to say that I don't expect them to perform, or to be "team players," but to me they're kind of strange cats, lol. Isolated, in their own worlds, so to speak. I would expect to find leadership among my LB's and Safeties, and I think that was a point that Gettleman was making.
As for Jenkins himself, I doubt he's going anywhere anytime soon. Few players are indispensable, but when you look at what the Giants have at CB, he's pretty damn close to it.
Why the F*CK do so many of you want to trade him?
Also, rarely BBI is on same page on anything....
I am happy they signed Sterling, but I also thought he was gone after they signed Tate, as I feel they are both very similar...but never thought he was part of a bad culture.
Now, OBJ, if anything, hated to lose more than anyone. But he also did not lead by example....although a hard worker, did it out west and shut it down last year, which did sit well. He was sent packing, similar to Snacks....to be honest, not sure why...as their play was special.
None of us are in the locker room, so I don’t know how to describe Jenkins...except I see a guy who’s been one of our most talented players, who played through an injury 2 years ago despite the season being a lost cause after week 5.
What has Jenkins done to warrant being called a malcontent? Seems to me his essentially kept his mouth shut and played hard despite losing seasons and a GM/coaching change, the kind of shit that triggers lots of guys attitudes to sink.
On shep, who I like a lot... it’s just funny how he went from an expendable “boat guy” to the poster child of character.
He has always been a hard working character guy- nothing ever changed- except Odell was traded so the narrative on shep for some now changes
I disagree with what I believe is the thought behind the above quote. Belichick is a proven winner and a strong leader. He can take a male content i.e. Randy Moss and that player will perform and toe the line. I don't think he just looks for high character guys.
Perhaps the issue here is that Shurmur does not yet command respect. He did not win in his previous stint as a head coach so he's not proven his way is the right way. For example, for all the headaches that Eli Apple gave to the team in his last season here, he seemed to be just fine once he landed in New Orleans. By all accounts he played well and I heard nothing about any "issues". Is the difference due to playing for Sean Payton rather than Shurmur?
Maybe some players just need a strong leader (on the coaching staff) to keep them in line.
My guess is he wouldn't be looked at as having control of malcontents - it would probably say that he threw a chance away to win a SB
Jenkins was a very good signing. He was outstanding upon arrival. That he's accumulating injuries and aging is a perfectly reasonable consequence of the contract. To suggest that he's a problem is a reflection of poor management
I may be right or maybe wrong, just an opinion. However the fact that Apple seems to be on the right path now lends it some credence. Why is he a different player in NO than he was here?
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Your insinuation that Apple needs a strong coach, but then make the leap that Shurmur isn't that guy is a hell of a conclusion. Apple was put on notice when Abrams was the interim GM. When DG/Shurmur were hired, they stated the clean slate policy. Apple was traded during Shurmur's first season. The logical conclusion would be that it was Ben's lack of leadership that allowed the turmoil to fester during Apple's fall from grace.
I may be right or maybe wrong, just an opinion. However the fact that Apple seems to be on the right path now lends it some credence. Why is he a different player in NO than he was here?
Don't discount the humbling experience of be cast off the team that drafted the player. The conclusion that Shurmur isn't a strong leader is wrong, IMO. Apple wasn't here long enough to be impacted by strong coaching one way or another with respect to Shurmur. The only conclusion that can be reasonably drawn from the Apple/DG/Shurmur experience is that perhaps DG/Shurmur were telling the whole truth as it pertains to the "clean slate" policy. When looking back at the transition of the two regimes, those that were given the "clean slate" were also the ones to be the first to leave.
He didn't play well for them and was the most targeted CB on their team.
He didn't play well for them and was the most targeted CB on their team.
They were also rumored to be trying to add him in a package for Antonio Brown. If true, that doesn’t sound like a guy that the team thinks suddenly “gets it”.
He didn't play well for them and was the most targeted CB on their team.
It seems as though the Saints would disagree with your contention that he didn't play well:
https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2019/3/7/18222549/saints-2018-year-in-review-eli-apple-giants-marshon-lattimore-ken-crawley-patrick-robinson
As would some who cover the Giants
https://nypost.com/2018/12/19/eli-apple-is-thriving-away-from-the-giants/
As would the analytics folks:
https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/10/pro-football-focus-new-orleans-saints-eli-apple-tampa-bay-buccaneers-marshon-lattimore/
My guess is he wouldn't be looked at as having control of malcontents - it would probably say that he threw a chance away to win a SB
If BB was our coach, I personally would never question a single move he did. That level of success earns that right for me.
Other people mileage may vary.
PFF Rank: 73
Overall Grade: 65.0
Coverage Grade: 64.2
Run Defense Grade: 59.5
Total Snaps: 1,022
Eli Apple is a key piece to the Saints talented young defense and is a good side kick to Marshon Lattimore. The Saints are in win-now mode, and need Apple to keep improving and growing. His play this season was good not great, but it showed flashes of great play. With a full offseason with the team, Apple could have a breakout season due to a full year with his new squad under his belt.
It is basically counting on him to develop and turn into a great player - of which they say he had flashes of. When a team's own fluff piece says he played good not great, that should tell you something.
and since we have a lot of people who love PFF here, being the 73rd rated DB's is not good.