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in 2018, NYG didn't "fall in love with a qb" now Jones?

huygens20 : 4/19/2019 1:29 am
“That tells you your answer right now,’’ Gettleman, the Giants general manager, said Thursday night. “If you have to try to make yourself fall in love with a player, it’s wrong. You will never be happy with the pick. You shouldn’t have to talk yourself into a guy.’’

sorry. I'm selling.

Daniel Jones? A guy who is not accurate down the field? A guy who has mediocre lateral agility?


NYG passed on Darnold and Rosen. The way Gettlemen answered the question over why Saquon over a QB by admitting that once baker was taken they didnt have a decision to make intimates that NYG did have baker as their #1 qb.


I read Gettleman's quote and theres no way I can believe they have fallen in love with Daniel Jones. Why....? Because of the backchannel ties that DJ has to Eli? Because Eli throws at Duke?

On tape DJs tape is markedly behind both Rosen & Darnold's.

I like dave te's analysis: his ceiling is a Tannehill/Flacco level qb. His film just doesnt have enough plays where I scream that I'm looking at a rare NFL talent.
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RE: Just stop!  
Blue21 : 4/19/2019 7:51 am : link
In comment 14393049 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
Why do so many people keep saying stuff like this?



Quote:


NYG passed on Darnold and Rosen.




Quote:


If you're not impressed enough with Rosen/Darnold last year but fall in love with Daniel Jones this year, then something is seriously wrong with your scouting department.



The Giants organization never said they didn't like anyone from the previous QB draft class. Why do people keep assuming that because they liked Barkley better they didn't like one of the QBs. Barkley is a once in a generation talent. None of those QBs look like a once in a generation talent. None of them from this year's class look like that either. I'd have to go all the way back to Luck to find a QB that was no kidding thought of as a sure thing and what has he done so far?

Barkley was so ahead of everyone else in that draft class it's crazy. Barkley wasn't just the best RB in the draft, he was the best player in the draft. Hell he was probably rated higher than any player in the past 5 or even 10 drafts.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying he's the best player in 5-10 years although that's possible. I'm just saying his draft stock/score was higher that anyone I've seen in a long time.

If you want to play the "reading the tea leaves game" you have to take Barkley out of the equation. You need to ask yourself who the Giants would have drafted if Barkley didn't exist.


Thank you USAF. Don't understand why this can't be understood
RE: They had Barkley graded out considerably higher than the QB's  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/19/2019 7:52 am : link
In comment 14393084 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Gettleman said he was the highest rated player he ever scouted since Peyton Manning.

That's all that happened.


This. They took the highest rated player on their board. That's it.

As usual, Giants fans have over analyzed the crap out of it. It doesn't mean they didn't like any of the QBs. It doesn't mean they aren't aware that they need to move on from Manning.
Did you “watch the tape”  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 7:59 am : link
Or did you YouTube a highlight video?

Because I “watched the tape” and saw a guy with nice size, a good arm, surprising mobility, and a guy who hung in there and delivered a lot of impressive throws under constant duress.

I’ve linked a video below. It’s not a traditional highlight video, as it features
quite a few incompletions.

It is 16 minutes long. Watch this video, with an open mind, and then tell me this prospect isn’t impressive. You’ll also notice how pathetic his OL and WRs are. Duke had no reason to be nationally ranked at any point, Jones carried them.

So, remove the Duke bias. Remove the Manning bias. Take 10-15 minutes to watch what I’ve linked and then ask yourself if a 6’5 tough QB with mobility, excellent accuracy in the intermediate pass game (the most important area in this offense and the nfl in general), and a good arm (he has a good arm, that knock on him is absolute BS) is worth it.

He’s basically everything I liked about Eli in his prime, with more athleticism.

Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
ok the OP makes no logical sense whatsoever  
Hades07 : 4/19/2019 8:05 am : link
See there is a fundamental difference between passing on Darnold, etc.. at #2 last year and taking Jones with the # 17 or trading up from it 4 him.

First and foremost, it hasn't happened yet so crying BS on a perceived yet to be determined event is just pointless.

Second, is they won't be passing on Barkley or a similar caliber player this year if they draft Jones.

The whole basis of the complaint is ignoring reality. If the Giants had 17 last year and had the opportunity to get a QBs they liked, they likely would have done it.
Gotham  
Big Rick in FL : 4/19/2019 8:12 am : link
The numbers are right there. Come from someone who watched every snap. Nothing about his accuracy is excellent.
Darnold and Barkley aren’t in this draft so they have nothing to do  
Mike in NJ : 4/19/2019 8:13 am : link
With Jones. They clearly felt Barkley was more valuable than Darnold so they took him. Do they think Jones is better than Darnold? Maybe, maybe not but that doesn’t matter because Darnold isn’t available, Jones is. You don’t pass on a guy just because someone from a previous year was better, by that logic nobody should have picked a quarterback last year because none of those guys were as good as Mahomes.

As for Rosen, if Gettleman takes Jones at 6 or 17 while Rosen can supposedly be had for 37 then obviously it means they think Jones is the better player. You may disagree but there’s a reason you’re bitching about it on a message board at 1:30 am and others are making the actual decision.
the Barkley/QB debate is so ridiculous  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 8:18 am : link
Saquon Barkley, I don’t care that he has “RB” next to his name, is the best offensive prospect to become available in a very long time. We have a player with the potential to be Sanders/Faulk/Tomlinson level dominant at 230 pounds. He was a gift, and the right selection.

They didn’t pass on all the QBs because they didn’t like them. They chose to take the best player in the 2018 draft, and the best offensive prospect to become available in years, over a QB simply because of “need”.

It’s easy to forget now, but this teams run game pre-Barkley had been a disgrace. It was a need as well. The 2018 draft matched need with elite talent. Barkley and Hernandez was my dream draft. Then they topped it off with Lorenzo Carter and I couldn’t have been happier.

Barkley was the right pick, I don’t even know how people can still think otherwise. He is incredible, and we are lucky he’s a Giant
They also weren't faced  
fkap : 4/19/2019 8:27 am : link
with it likely being Eli's last year.

rightly, or wrongly, they thought Eli still had a couple years left in him. IMO, they were right about that, wrong about the state of the team around him. But what I, or you, think doesn't matter. In their mind, it was still too early to take a QB.

That knocks QB down a tier if none of the prospects jumped out at them.

Different story this year. Jury is out on Eli, but it is obvious this very well could be his last year. No extension says a lot. QB prospects get bumped up a notch in terms of discussion.

Stop treating rumors as fact. Are they truly in love with Jones? or is he simply a QB who is in their top tier? Or, none of the above? Until the pick is in, they aren't in love with anyone.

You really think Giants are going to tell us they played it loose last year, or that they're settling this year?
RE: Gotham  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14393109 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
The numbers are right there. Come from someone who watched every snap. Nothing about his accuracy is excellent.


Interesting chart ... Can you link where that chart is from? Data analysis is my thing, curious how they came up with the numbers.

* I do not want anything to do with Daniel Jones at 6th overall, for the record. I am higher on him than most and could see the appeal at 17 depending on how the draft unfolds. If it were up to me defense would be the picks at 6/17 (and maybe even 37) depending on who’s available.

** Sweat, Bush/Lawrence in come combo is my dream start to this draft and feel it would instantly make this defense decent at least.
Did I pull..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/19/2019 8:34 am : link
a Rip Van Winkle and sleep through the draft where we selected Jones??
RE: They also weren't faced  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 8:37 am : link
In comment 14393124 fkap said:
Quote:
with it likely being Eli's last year.

rightly, or wrongly, they thought Eli still had a couple years left in him. IMO, they were right about that, wrong about the state of the team around him. But what I, or you, think doesn't matter. In their mind, it was still too early to take a QB.

That knocks QB down a tier if none of the prospects jumped out at them.

Different story this year. Jury is out on Eli, but it is obvious this very well could be his last year. No extension says a lot. QB prospects get bumped up a notch in terms of discussion.

Stop treating rumors as fact. Are they truly in love with Jones? or is he simply a QB who is in their top tier? Or, none of the above? Until the pick is in, they aren't in love with anyone.

You really think Giants are going to tell us they played it loose last year, or that they're settling this year?


I told my dad “ignore literally every headline you see now until draft day”. I’m thinking all of this QB talk is BS to force teams like Denver/Cinci/Washington to trade up for “their guy”.

Hopefully someone trades up with Jets (I have an “asshat” with that team ... they are desperately trying to trade down. They want more picks to build around Darnold and feel they can still get an impact starter on D - Brian Burns mentioned - later in round 1.)

Hopefully Denver moves up for Lock or Bengals for Haskins ... gonna be an interesting night. I expect quite a few trades throughout the 1st round
RE: RE: Gotham  
Big Rick in FL : 4/19/2019 8:40 am : link
In comment 14393126 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14393109 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


The numbers are right there. Come from someone who watched every snap. Nothing about his accuracy is excellent.



Interesting chart ... Can you link where that chart is from? Data analysis is my thing, curious how they came up with the numbers.

* I do not want anything to do with Daniel Jones at 6th overall, for the record. I am higher on him than most and could see the appeal at 17 depending on how the draft unfolds. If it were up to me defense would be the picks at 6/17 (and maybe even 37) depending on who’s available.

** Sweat, Bush/Lawrence in come combo is my dream start to this draft and feel it would instantly make this defense decent at least.


In a meeting at work. Give me an hour and I'll get it for you.
RE: Did you “watch the tape”  
Capt. Don : 4/19/2019 8:43 am : link
In comment 14393097 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
Or did you YouTube a highlight video?

Because I “watched the tape” and saw a guy with nice size, a good arm, surprising mobility, and a guy who hung in there and delivered a lot of impressive throws under constant duress.

I’ve linked a video below. It’s not a traditional highlight video, as it features
quite a few incompletions.

He’s basically everything I liked about Eli in his prime, with more athleticism. Daniel Jones - ( New Window )


It is definitely a highlight video bc the incompletions were good throws.

I think his defining characteristic is his ability and willingness to deliver the ball with people at his feet and in his face.

In that regard he definitely reminds me of 2011-12 Eli.
Big Rick in FL  
X : 4/19/2019 8:51 am : link
Based on the chart you provided, Haskins and Grier are very accurate. Do you like either of them as potential QBs for the Giants?
RE: RE: Did you “watch the tape”  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 9:09 am : link
In comment 14393143 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
In comment 14393097 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


Or did you YouTube a highlight video?

Because I “watched the tape” and saw a guy with nice size, a good arm, surprising mobility, and a guy who hung in there and delivered a lot of impressive throws under constant duress.

I’ve linked a video below. It’s not a traditional highlight video, as it features
quite a few incompletions.

He’s basically everything I liked about Eli in his prime, with more athleticism. Daniel Jones - ( New Window )



It is definitely a highlight video bc the incompletions were good throws.

I think his defining characteristic is his ability and willingness to deliver the ball with people at his feet and in his face.

In that regard he definitely reminds me of 2011-12 Eli.


It’s not the “tape” I was referring to, but it is my favorite video of him to quickly summarize everything I like about him. I’ve watched his games, the good the bad and the ugly. It brought back memories of Eli playing behind Flowers/Hart with 3rd string WRs and basically having no chance to succeed.

Jones played behind an awful OL, with awful WRs, and he hung in there (or scrambled away) to make some very impressive throws.

I believe there’s a play against Pitt (?) where he has 3 defenders rushing him and he delivers a perfect TD pass that literally goes through his WR/TEs hands. You’ll find these types of pathetic misses throughout his games ... I forget the opponent but there was a game where he had like 7 dropped passes before half time.
RE: Big Rick in FL  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14393152 X said:
Quote:
Based on the chart you provided, Haskins and Grier are very accurate. Do you like either of them as potential QBs for the Giants?


Of course Haskins is accurate, he dumps off quick passes to 3 WRs that’ll be in the NFL
RE: Big Rick in FL  
Big Rick in FL : 4/19/2019 9:13 am : link
In comment 14393152 X said:
Quote:
Based on the chart you provided, Haskins and Grier are very accurate. Do you like either of them as potential QBs for the Giants?


Grier seems like the prototypical college QB to me. I think Case Keenum is a good comparison for him.

I like Haskins. Don't love him. The more I watch of him the less I do like him. There are a couple of things that worry me about him. His throws on screens and to the RB in the flat. His athleticism. He was also a 1st year college starter. So he definitely can get better with more experience.

The one guy I really love is Drew Lock. He's the only one I'd personally take at 6. To me he just has that IT factor. Played on an undermanned team in the best conference. Completion percentage got better every year. Big arm, mobile, can throw off platform. Good at throwing the deep ball. Also his top WR missed a handful of games last year. That really hurt the entire offense. His numbers with Emanuel Hall are very good.
RE: RE: Big Rick in FL  
Big Rick in FL : 4/19/2019 9:15 am : link
In comment 14393173 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14393152 X said:


Quote:


Based on the chart you provided, Haskins and Grier are very accurate. Do you like either of them as potential QBs for the Giants?



Of course Haskins is accurate, he dumps off quick passes to 3 WRs that’ll be in the NFL


He's the most accurate from 11-19 and the third most accurate over 20 yards.
Love  
Jon in NYC : 4/19/2019 9:17 am : link
those Drew Lock numbers. Especially for someone whose biggest (only?) knock is accuracy.

If they can clean up the short stuff he's right there with Haskins despite a far worse supporting cast in a better conference.
Gotham  
Big Rick in FL : 4/19/2019 9:18 am : link
Can't seem to find the person who made that chart. Someone on here posted it a few weeks back. Hopefully they see it and still have the link to the person who created it. If I come across him I'll post the link.
Saw that video ....and my opinion hasnt changed  
George from PA : 4/19/2019 9:19 am : link
He is more of an athlete then I originally thought... moves better.

I saw plenty if decent passes that wr dropped....but just not enamored by his arm. Not keen on his windup....looks like a great college QB...but very average pro....nothing special.

But i am no expert..what do I know???

I will trust the pros
I know it's his coach, but take for what it's worth  
csb : 4/19/2019 9:29 am : link
You have an idea of how these guys project out. Is Daniel, in your mind, going to be a first-round pick?

“Absolutely,” Cutcliffe said from his office on Thursday morning. “I can’t imagine there’s someone out there more equipped, top to bottom, in this draft or in the next draft if he had stayed, than he is to be an NFL quarterback. A starter. A star. People that evaluate a lot of this don’t know it. They haven’t seen every one-on-one drill… seven-on-seven. They haven’t seen those things. I have. And yeah, he is [a first-round pick], he’s going to follow in those footsteps if he stays healthy.”

“I’ll tell you this, I was almost blown away at his pro day, he was awesome,” Cutcliffe said. “You can’t throw it better. You can’t command the group better. They’ve been working together on their own, but they look like a good football team. You’ve got to remember, Daniel took all of this on himself. It was just beautifully done.”
Disclaimer  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 9:47 am : link
I want nothing to do with a QB in round 1. Nothing. Fix this defense at 6 and 17 (and 37) and then go all in next year. 2020 + 2021 picks for Fromm, after the d has been addressed in 2019. Use all that cap room next year to
fill additional needs around your young “franchise QB”.

Having said that, there are things I like about Daniel Jones and feel he gets way to much hate on here. He’s big, he’s got a good arm, he’s mobile, he’s tough, he’s well coached. He’s not perfect, and I’d be furious if he was the pick at 6 in this class, but he does have ability and I could see him thriving in Shurmur’s offense (in 2020).

If I was forced to take a QB at 6, it’s Drew Lock. He’s nowhere near ready to play, but his physical ability is undeniable and if there’s gonna be a Mahomes out of this class, it’s him. He makes a lot of throws that most QBs can’t even attempt. His arm talent is elite, he’s mobile, he’s got all the “tools” you want to work with.

Haskins, not his fault, but his stats are grossly inflated by his supporting cast. I’ve watched his tape (not just highlights) and I routinely come away thinking Paris Campbell would be an excellent pick at 37. I don’t hate Haskins, but I see nothing special whatsoever with him. He’s got a good arm, he’s accurate, but I didn’t see anything like Lock’s ability to make those “wow” throws. Nothing about Haskins is exciting, to me anyway. I’ve tried to get excited about him as a prospect - maybe I’m missing something

Kyler Murray I’d take in a heartbeat, but he’ll be gone and likely doesn’t fit the “Giants model”. He’s got the tools to be a faster Russel Wilson.

Drew Lock has some rare traits that can’t be coached. An ideal prospect to sit behind Eli and develop.

Daniel Jones has the size, mobility, and toughness I want in a QB. Another prospect I wouldn’t mind behind Eli if I had to go QB.

Short version: I don’t want a QB in round 1 - at all. Lock I can understand the temptation at 6, Jones I can see the potential value at 17. Jones is not the useless pile of garbage some make him out to be.

Difference  
Jim Bur(n)t : 4/19/2019 9:55 am : link
No Saquan & we dont have the 2nd Pick in the Draft! Nobody said this love was unconditional!! lol...

I do think ist's front 7 with bothpicks in the 1st rd.
Gotham  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/19/2019 9:55 am : link
I am with you pretty much in everything you write. I had not really looked into this guy -- but now that I've poked around I think he is the real deal --- and Gettleman has certainly laid the ground work for picking him.

The big things about Jones is his ability to play under duress -- behind a bad Offensive line, and that he is a more mobile QB than Eli ever was. I don't think he is inaccurate. I think he throws a good ball. He is a tremendous leader and tough as nails.

I'm gonna say it right here -- I like him better than any college QB I've seen come out in the past two years.

I'm calling defense pick one and then Jones in a trade up as my asshat predicts.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/19/2019 9:59 am : link
Accuracy absolutely IS a concern on Jones.

Anyone dismissing that isn't paying attention.
"If you have to try to make yourself fall in love with a player..."  
Jimmy Googs : 4/19/2019 10:01 am : link
I’m not a big fan of Jones but Dave Te  
Dave on the UWS : 4/19/2019 10:04 am : link
mentioned something in his Daniel Jones analysis that made me think. He said there is room on his frame to add muscle and his LOWER BODY needs development. This is what Brady did and it significantly improved the velocity on his passes. His accuracy is hard to judge since his pocket sucked routinely. If they pick him, I would be ok with it.
The  
AcidTest : 4/19/2019 10:13 am : link
problem with trading up for a QB is the cost since we'd probably have to go up to #9, maybe higher. That will cost #37 and much more. So you basically spent at least #17 and #37 for Lock, Jones, or Haskins, when you probably could have spent just #37 for Rosen.

DG also said how hard it's going to be to watch 58 good players come off the board between #37 and #95. This team has a ton of holes. I think a trade up only happens if we can do it for just #95. And that would mean that Lock, Jones, or Haskins would have to fall a lot further than most are predicting.

If the Giants really want to trade up into the top 10 from #17, then they should first trade down from #6 to get extra draft capital. But that isn't likely to happen. DG has never traded down, and he has already talked about "riding the edge" at #6 in terms of getting a player who might one day wear a gold jacket.

All these QBs are been overvalued. It happens every year because teams are desperate for a franchise QB. DG was right when he said that we can't force a pick for any position.
RE: .  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14393250 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Accuracy absolutely IS a concern on Jones.

Anyone dismissing that isn't paying attention.


the great QB debates (in my mind anyway)

“Is Haskins as great as his stats or did he just dish the ball out accordingly to elite talent and not screw it up?”

“Is Daniel Jones a mediocre QB or was the entire offense surrounding him so pathetic that data won’t reflect what is actually a very appealing skill set?”

I would’ve loved to see Jones behind OSU’s line with 3 NFL caliber WRs ... or how a “pocket passer” like Haskins would’ve looked in Duke’s putrid offense ... lots of variables at play for sure.

Murray, Lock, Jones, Haskins is my QB preference order ... but again, I want nothing to do with QB early and hope this is all blowing smoke to force 3-4 QB picks before 17th overall.

RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 4/19/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14393250 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Accuracy absolutely IS a concern on Jones.

Anyone dismissing that isn't paying attention.


So he's got a weak, inaccurate arm.

Sick.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/19/2019 10:20 am : link
Right - there are a lot of variables.

I have them ranked a bit differently than you do...

My personal preference in order is Murray, Haskins, Lock, Jones, Finley.... I'm not a Grier fan.

I would take Murray @ 6 - but other than him, my preference @ 6 is defense. I'm more open to these QB's @ 17... I'd be good with Haskins or Lock there. Less good with Jones, but I won't throw a fit about it.
RE: .  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14393278 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Right - there are a lot of variables.

I have them ranked a bit differently than you do...

My personal preference in order is Murray, Haskins, Lock, Jones, Finley.... I'm not a Grier fan.

I would take Murray @ 6 - but other than him, my preference @ 6 is defense. I'm more open to these QB's @ 17... I'd be good with Haskins or Lock there. Less good with Jones, but I won't throw a fit about it.


Flip Lock and Haskins and this is exactly where I’m at. Lock’s skillset (aside from Murray) is very tempting. I just don’t see anything special with Haskins ... I’m trying though.
RE: RE: .  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 10:27 am : link
In comment 14393272 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14393250 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Accuracy absolutely IS a concern on Jones.

Anyone dismissing that isn't paying attention.



So he's got a weak, inaccurate arm.

Sick.


He does not have a weak arm - at all.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/19/2019 10:28 am : link
In comment 14393272 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14393250 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Accuracy absolutely IS a concern on Jones.

Anyone dismissing that isn't paying attention.



So he's got a weak, inaccurate arm.

Sick.


I think his arm is strong enough short range - but I just feel like he's much more of a "touch" passer. I rarely see Jones really drive the ball into a tight window and zip it in there when a DB is closing quickly.

Jones is the guy I have nightmares about floating out routes that go the other way for 6 because he can't zip the ball across the field quickly and accurately enough.

Haskins does do this - and Haskins IS very accurate. His release is quicker and he gets the ball out quicker.

The other thing I've noticed is that Haskins seems to have a much better feel for the edge rusher. Jones doesn't always sense it. There were a few instances where I saw him basically get blindsided because his pocket movement wasn't in sync with where the rush was coming from.

Jones will get away from a few more guys than Haskins will, but neither will ever be mistaken for Murray in this regard. I think both guys are going to make their money passing out of the pocket, and I just like Haskins more as a passer.

I'll admit Jones is a tough guy to figure out, though. His footwork is a bit better than Haskins' - I just worry that the ceiling isn't there.

And, well... no guts, no glory, right?
Why are some still on the weak arm thing  
PatersonPlank : 4/19/2019 10:30 am : link
He does not have a weak arm, this was debunked when the workouts and private workouts started. It was a media/internet creation.

He has an NFL arm, and he is accurate. If he threw downfield less than others its likely because their OL sucked and he didn't have the time, which was probably reflected in their play calling.

I'd love to see Jones standing in the backfield drinking a Pina Colada like Haskins, throwing to NFL WR's running 4.3 40's
RE: Why are some still on the weak arm thing  
arcarsenal : 4/19/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14393298 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
He does not have a weak arm, this was debunked when the workouts and private workouts started. It was a media/internet creation.

He has an NFL arm, and he is accurate. If he threw downfield less than others its likely because their OL sucked and he didn't have the time, which was probably reflected in their play calling.

I'd love to see Jones standing in the backfield drinking a Pina Colada like Haskins, throwing to NFL WR's running 4.3 40's


Accurate based on what?

He was a sub-60% passer in is college career. Look at the chart Rick posted earlier in the thread that breaks his accuracy into levels.

He's not accurate. If he is, he hasn't displayed enough of it.
RE: RE: RE: Did you “watch the tape”  
Giants38 : 4/19/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14393172 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14393143 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


In comment 14393097 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


Or did you YouTube a highlight video?

Because I “watched the tape” and saw a guy with nice size, a good arm, surprising mobility, and a guy who hung in there and delivered a lot of impressive throws under constant duress.

I’ve linked a video below. It’s not a traditional highlight video, as it features
quite a few incompletions.

He’s basically everything I liked about Eli in his prime, with more athleticism. Daniel Jones - ( New Window )



It is definitely a highlight video bc the incompletions were good throws.

I think his defining characteristic is his ability and willingness to deliver the ball with people at his feet and in his face.

In that regard he definitely reminds me of 2011-12 Eli.



It’s not the “tape” I was referring to, but it is my favorite video of him to quickly summarize everything I like about him. I’ve watched his games, the good the bad and the ugly. It brought back memories of Eli playing behind Flowers/Hart with 3rd string WRs and basically having no chance to succeed.

Jones played behind an awful OL, with awful WRs, and he hung in there (or scrambled away) to make some very impressive throws.

I believe there’s a play against Pitt (?) where he has 3 defenders rushing him and he delivers a perfect TD pass that literally goes through his WR/TEs hands. You’ll find these types of pathetic misses throughout his games ... I forget the opponent but there was a game where he had like 7 dropped passes before half time.


If you watched that Pitt game, you noticed that a lot of his short throws were behind WRs. Jones didn’t allow them to run after the catch. There’s accuracy, and then there is ball placement. He struggles with ball placement.

The Clemson game was not his fault. They were outmanned. The Wake Forest game was. Wake Forest was a pitiful football team, and Duke got powerbombed. That should not have happened. I get that there may have been a letdown from the Clemson game, but WF beat them by 35 or 42. It was ugly.

I formed by opinions on Jones by watching his games. The Senior Bowl is hardly a large sample size, but supposedly he struggled at the practices - which I didn’t watch - and then he struggled at the game.
RE: Just stop!  
MM_in_NYC : 4/19/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14393049 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
Why do so many people keep saying stuff like this?



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NYG passed on Darnold and Rosen.




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If you're not impressed enough with Rosen/Darnold last year but fall in love with Daniel Jones this year, then something is seriously wrong with your scouting department.



The Giants organization never said they didn't like anyone from the previous QB draft class. Why do people keep assuming that because they liked Barkley better they didn't like one of the QBs. Barkley is a once in a generation talent. None of those QBs look like a once in a generation talent. None of them from this year's class look like that either. I'd have to go all the way back to Luck to find a QB that was no kidding thought of as a sure thing and what has he done so far?

Barkley was so ahead of everyone else in that draft class it's crazy. Barkley wasn't just the best RB in the draft, he was the best player in the draft. Hell he was probably rated higher than any player in the past 5 or even 10 drafts.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying he's the best player in 5-10 years although that's possible. I'm just saying his draft stock/score was higher that anyone I've seen in a long time.

If you want to play the "reading the tea leaves game" you have to take Barkley out of the equation. You need to ask yourself who the Giants would have drafted if Barkley didn't exist.


Agree with this. Good analysis
RE: RE: Just stop!  
MM_in_NYC : 4/19/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14393065 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 14393049 USAF NYG Fan said:

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NYG passed on Darnold and Rosen.




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If you're not impressed enough with Rosen/Darnold last year but fall in love with Daniel Jones this year, then something is seriously wrong with your scouting department.



The Giants organization never said they didn't like anyone from the previous QB draft class. Why do people keep assuming that because they liked Barkley better they didn't like one of the QBs. Barkley is a once in a generation talent. None of those QBs look like a once in a generation talent. None of them from this year's class look like that either. I'd have to go all the way back to Luck to find a QB that was no kidding thought of as a sure thing and what has he done so far?

Barkley was so ahead of everyone else in that draft class it's crazy. Barkley wasn't just the best RB in the draft, he was the best player in the draft. Hell he was probably rated higher than any player in the past 5 or even 10 drafts.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying he's the best player in 5-10 years although that's possible. I'm just saying his draft stock/score was higher that anyone I've seen in a long time.

If you want to play the "reading the tea leaves game" you have to take Barkley out of the equation. You need to ask yourself who the Giants would have drafted if Barkley didn't exist.



According to our asshats we didn't have a QB in our top 5. Our top 3 were Saquon, Chubb & Nelson.


While this may be true, two things:

1. We're picking 6th this year, so top 5 ranking has different context.
2. Just b/c they had higher ranking does not mean that QB positional value would not have pushed anyone ahead.
For me, it is sad that whoever QB the Giants take or pass on  
Ivan15 : 4/19/2019 10:54 am : link
we will listen to critics for as long as it takes to win a Super Bowl. And.maybe even beyond that as we continued to hear from the Eli critics after February 2008.
I think arm strength of a pro QB  
Big Blue '56 : 4/19/2019 11:02 am : link
needs to be redefined. When you can throw across your body on a diagonal rope, that’s arm strength to me
RE: RE: RE: RE: Did you “watch the tape”  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14393313 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14393172 GothamGiants said:


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In comment 14393143 Capt. Don said:


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In comment 14393097 GothamGiants said:


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Or did you YouTube a highlight video?

Because I “watched the tape” and saw a guy with nice size, a good arm, surprising mobility, and a guy who hung in there and delivered a lot of impressive throws under constant duress.

I’ve linked a video below. It’s not a traditional highlight video, as it features
quite a few incompletions.

He’s basically everything I liked about Eli in his prime, with more athleticism. Daniel Jones - ( New Window )



It is definitely a highlight video bc the incompletions were good throws.

I think his defining characteristic is his ability and willingness to deliver the ball with people at his feet and in his face.

In that regard he definitely reminds me of 2011-12 Eli.



It’s not the “tape” I was referring to, but it is my favorite video of him to quickly summarize everything I like about him. I’ve watched his games, the good the bad and the ugly. It brought back memories of Eli playing behind Flowers/Hart with 3rd string WRs and basically having no chance to succeed.

Jones played behind an awful OL, with awful WRs, and he hung in there (or scrambled away) to make some very impressive throws.

I believe there’s a play against Pitt (?) where he has 3 defenders rushing him and he delivers a perfect TD pass that literally goes through his WR/TEs hands. You’ll find these types of pathetic misses throughout his games ... I forget the opponent but there was a game where he had like 7 dropped passes before half time.



If you watched that Pitt game, you noticed that a lot of his short throws were behind WRs. Jones didn’t allow them to run after the catch. There’s accuracy, and then there is ball placement. He struggles with ball placement.

The Clemson game was not his fault. They were outmanned. The Wake Forest game was. Wake Forest was a pitiful football team, and Duke got powerbombed. That should not have happened. I get that there may have been a letdown from the Clemson game, but WF beat them by 35 or 42. It was ugly.

I formed by opinions on Jones by watching his games. The Senior Bowl is hardly a large sample size, but supposedly he struggled at the practices - which I didn’t watch - and then he struggled at the game.


I don’t want a QB in the first round ... and he’s my 3rd QB in this class.

I’m hoping all this smoke leads to other stupid teams reaching on 4 QBs before we are on the clock at 17 ... gimme pass rusher at 6 and either D.Bush and Dexter Lawrence at 17.

Fix this defense in the draft, build a run-first offense, win games. Address QB next year with 2020/2021 draft picks to move up if needed and use the cap room to fill immediate needs in free agency. Build the team around the QB, rather than reach and pray he’s your savior.

Best player available, defense, with both 1s.
RE: the Barkley/QB debate is so ridiculous  
joeinpa : 4/19/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14393113 GothamGiants said:
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Saquon Barkley, I don’t care that he has “RB” next to his name, is the best offensive prospect to become available in a very long time. We have a player with the potential to be Sanders/Faulk/Tomlinson level dominant at 230 pounds. He was a gift, and the right selection.

They didn’t pass on all the QBs because they didn’t like them. They chose to take the best player in the 2018 draft, and the best offensive prospect to become available in years, over a QB simply because of “need”.

It’s easy to forget now, but this teams run game pre-Barkley had been a disgrace. It was a need as well. The 2018 draft matched need with elite talent. Barkley and Hernandez was my dream draft. Then they topped it off with Lorenzo Carter and I couldn’t have been happier.

Barkley was the right pick, I don’t even know how people can still think otherwise. He is incredible, and we are lucky he’s a Giant


That last statement is pretty narrow minded and or short sided. If Darnold turns in an Eli in next two years, do you still feel the same way.
RE: RE: the Barkley/QB debate is so ridiculous  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14393605 joeinpa said:
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In comment 14393113 GothamGiants said:


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Saquon Barkley, I don’t care that he has “RB” next to his name, is the best offensive prospect to become available in a very long time. We have a player with the potential to be Sanders/Faulk/Tomlinson level dominant at 230 pounds. He was a gift, and the right selection.

They didn’t pass on all the QBs because they didn’t like them. They chose to take the best player in the 2018 draft, and the best offensive prospect to become available in years, over a QB simply because of “need”.

It’s easy to forget now, but this teams run game pre-Barkley had been a disgrace. It was a need as well. The 2018 draft matched need with elite talent. Barkley and Hernandez was my dream draft. Then they topped it off with Lorenzo Carter and I couldn’t have been happier.

Barkley was the right pick, I don’t even know how people can still think otherwise. He is incredible, and we are lucky he’s a Giant



That last statement is pretty narrow minded and or short sided. If Darnold turns in an Eli in next two years, do you still feel the same way.


You know what’s short sighted and narrow minded? Harping on the 2018 QB class as if it’s the only chance the Giants will ever have to get a new QB. It’s over, and the Giants chose the best player in the class who delivered on his lofty expectations.


Will I be upset if Darnold turns out to be a good QB? Not at all, because I fully expect Barkley to be considered the best offensive player in the sport by then - and he’s already shown why.

For the record,  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 2:05 pm : link
Feel free to rip me to shreds over this, but the concept of a “franchise QB” is so overrated to me.

You can drool over Mahomes’ no look passes or Andrew Luck or whoever you want, it’s still a team game and you need pieces around them to actually be successful.

Mahomes and Luck both ended their strong fantasy seasons with nothing to show for in reality. All things being equal, yes I would love for either of them on the Giants.

However, the “franchise QB” is not some demigod singlehandedly capable of winning a SB while carrying the team on his back. He’s a (big) piece of the puzzle. Is there an Andrew Luck prospect in this class? Nope. Lock has a little Mahomes-lite to his game, hence why I’d be ok with him at 6.

The almighty franchise QB is so important that just 2 years ago we saw Blake f’n Bortles almost face Nick Foles in the SB. Foles “out dueling” Case Keenum in the NFC Championship. Those teams approached the promised land despite their QB, not because of them. How? With good defense and a strong run gam - something the Giants could have as soon as this season depending on how they approach the draft.

You don’t reach on a QB just to take 1. That’s the stupidity that gets Bortles taken over Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald. We have to watch Philly win with Foles, or Dallas win with a QB like Dak, and people still obsess over the almighty “franchise QB”.

Fix this pathetic defense, pound the ball behind an improved OL with the best Arab in the game, and win those close games they gave away last year. Get a solid OL in place, with an effective run/play action game, and a strong defense - start winning games while putting the pieces in place for if/when Eli is gone.

I get the appeal of an “elite QB”, obviously it’s a huge advantage and if there were guys with that potential (like next year), I’d be all about taking him this year at 6 or even trading up. Instead we get this “franchise QB” label thrown around as a must have, when quite frankly most of them with that label are nothing special. I don’t consider guys like Matt Ryan or Stafford “franchise QBs”, nor do I think an elite WB is necessary to be competitive. It isn’t. So, rather than force a pick on a lesser prospect, why not draft the elite talent (Barkley last year, defense this year) and build a good roster for Eli (or whoever) to step into.

* best RB, not best Arab  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 2:07 pm : link
Whoops. Autocorrect
RE: They had Barkley graded out considerably higher than the QB's  
Thegratefulhead : 4/19/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14393084 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Gettleman said he was the highest rated player he ever scouted since Peyton Manning.

That's all that happened.
I was wrong, the Giants were right. He was best player at his position as a ROOKIE. Gold jacket if he stays healthy.
RE: RE: They had Barkley graded out considerably higher than the QB's  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14393643 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14393084 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Gettleman said he was the highest rated player he ever scouted since Peyton Manning.

That's all that happened.

I was wrong, the Giants were right. He was best player at his position as a ROOKIE. Gold jacket if he stays healthy.


While Barkley is in a class by himself, it did prove they won’t reach on a QB because of media/fan pressure ... which has me optimistic they’ll continue going BPA (defense) this year
Smokescreen  
Thegratefulhead : 4/19/2019 2:22 pm : link
No fucking way with all this hype is it Jones to NY. This isn't Barkley. I think they draft Haskins if he is there at 6. I think they trade for Rosen if Haskins is taken in front of them. I do not believe they are spending any draft capital moving up. They might have the worst roster depth in football. They are going by value, Haskins is amazing in the short/intermediate game(Shurmur's offense), wonderful at screens. He is brilliant and has a high football IQ. I think him and Barkely would be AMAZING together. I think he is 3-8 on many boards, so that would not be forcing the pick. Some have him as the top QB. I think Rosen has great value at 37 or less. I believe them when they say they will not force it.
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