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Drafting a QB vs the best player available

Archer : 4/19/2019 12:25 pm
It is impossible not to see or hear all of the mock drafts on TV or the radio
For the most part the prognosticators are picking Haskins at number 6 for the Giants
Their justification is that the Giants have a need at the most important possition on the team and Haskins fits that need
Almost universally they like Haskins, but, they never suggest that he is the highest rated player at that point in the draft
As a matter of fact immediately after the Giants pick they are saying how fortunate teams are that White, Hockenson, Sweat, or Oliver has dropped into a teams lap

Their is a consistent argument that if you feel strongly about a QB that you have to draft him at six without regard for other players who are available
They are saying that you cannot take the chance that the QB is not there at 17
There were even two drafts were they had the Giants trading up to pick Haskins

I really do not understand how you can select a player in a vacuum
If the Giants feel that there is a generational talent available at another possition and they are not so impressed with a QB then you have to take that player

What if the Giants have a similar grade on three QBs
Why wouldn’t they take a chance that one of those QBs will fall into their laps at 17.

I also would like the Giants to draft a franchise QB. Who wouldn’t? But I would also be fine if they punted on a QB until next year

I want the best players available

The Giants had arguably the worst defense in the league last year They have lost 3 of their best players Vernon, Harrison, and Collins
The Giants better have a conviction on a QB if they pass on difference making defensive players

I hope that the Giants draft defense with their first three picks
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RE: “Franchise QBs”  
eric2425ny : 4/19/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14393748 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
Brady
Luck
Mahomes
Mayfield*
Ben
Brees
Eli**
Rodgers
Rivers
Cam
Wilson

These are the only QBs I consider worthy of the label, with ** for Eli since he’s no longer at that level.

The Stafford/Ryan “franchise QBs” are a liability, not an asset. Good enough to not “let go”, but not good enough to put a team over the top themselves. So, you mire in mediocrity with an overpaid contract limiting the team’s ability to actually build a complete roster - and you do it all to keep that “franchise QB”

*Mayfield has a lot more to prove, but he showed me enough to think he’ll end up in this tier.



^This. That’s exactly why Accorsi bet the farm on Eli years ago. He saw the coolness under pressure and knew Eli had what it took to win. When I look at guys like Stafford and Ryan I see “good” but not “great” QB’s. They will put up some nice stats but their teams will likely never win a SB with them at QB.
RE: “Franchise QBs”  
FranchiseQB : 4/19/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14393748 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
Brady
Luck
Mahomes
Mayfield*
Ben
Brees
Eli**
Rodgers
Rivers
Cam
Wilson

These are the only QBs I consider worthy of the label, with ** for Eli since he’s no longer at that level.

The Stafford/Ryan “franchise QBs” are a liability, not an asset. Good enough to not “let go”, but not good enough to put a team over the top themselves. So, you mire in mediocrity with an overpaid contract limiting the team’s ability to actually build a complete roster - and you do it all to keep that “franchise QB”

*Mayfield has a lot more to prove, but he showed me enough to think he’ll end up in this tier.



Of course Ryan belongs on that list. He has been a consistent top-6 to top-8 qb this whole decade. Statistically he is superior to Eli.
RE: RE: “Franchise QBs”  
eric2425ny : 4/19/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14393759 FranchiseQB said:
Quote:
In comment 14393748 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


Brady
Luck
Mahomes
Mayfield*
Ben
Brees
Eli**
Rodgers
Rivers
Cam
Wilson

These are the only QBs I consider worthy of the label, with ** for Eli since he’s no longer at that level.

The Stafford/Ryan “franchise QBs” are a liability, not an asset. Good enough to not “let go”, but not good enough to put a team over the top themselves. So, you mire in mediocrity with an overpaid contract limiting the team’s ability to actually build a complete roster - and you do it all to keep that “franchise QB”

*Mayfield has a lot more to prove, but he showed me enough to think he’ll end up in this tier.





Of course Ryan belongs on that list. He has been a consistent top-6 to top-8 qb this whole decade. Statistically he is superior to Eli.


Key word there, “statistically”. This isn’t fantasy football, you have to step up in the big games which Ryan has not consistently done in his career.
RE: RE: “Franchise QBs”  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14393759 FranchiseQB said:
Quote:
In comment 14393748 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


Brady
Luck
Mahomes
Mayfield*
Ben
Brees
Eli**
Rodgers
Rivers
Cam
Wilson

These are the only QBs I consider worthy of the label, with ** for Eli since he’s no longer at that level.

The Stafford/Ryan “franchise QBs” are a liability, not an asset. Good enough to not “let go”, but not good enough to put a team over the top themselves. So, you mire in mediocrity with an overpaid contract limiting the team’s ability to actually build a complete roster - and you do it all to keep that “franchise QB”

*Mayfield has a lot more to prove, but he showed me enough to think he’ll end up in this tier.





Of course Ryan belongs on that list. He has been a consistent top-6 to top-8 qb this whole decade. Statistically he is superior to Eli.


How many SBs? I don’t care about the fantasy points he’s put up while playing catch with Julio Jones in a dome. More to the game than stats.

Ryan is not a QB you fear playing. He’s fine, above average even. Nothing to get excited about. I think the idea of a franchise QB is an overrated concept, and your handle is literally Franchise QB, so we’re probably not going to agree.

That’s fine. I hold my “franchise” “generational” labels to a higher standard than most. Nothing about the Giants landing the “next Matt Ryan” should excite fans.
RE: RE: RE: Not really.  
lax counsel : 4/19/2019 3:31 pm : link
In comment 14393592 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14393556 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


In comment 14393529 Bill L said:


Quote:


By almost all accounts, Barkley *is* generational.

OTOH, every pick a QB, any QB you get seems to be labeled "franchise".

In truth, both terms are pre4tty much useless propagandist rhetorical devices designed to make the person you want picked seem better than he actually is.



by what accounts is Barkley a generational talent? It is a meaningless term. He's great. There are other great backs. He will probably run out of juice in five or six years like most RBs, whereas a top QB will be excellent for 15 years.



Dude, do you watch the games? Barkley is a phenom, he’s like Bo and Barry Sanders combined and catches like a WR. If he wasn’t in last year’s draft I would have been 100% on the QB wagon, but you can’t pass up on a guy like that, he makes your whole offense better. There is no guarantee Darnold, Allen, or Rosen pan out. So far Mayfield is the only one of that bunch that has seemingly shown he will be a good one. Jury is still out on the rest.


My favorite BBI thought process, so far "only Mayfield looks good, but jury is still out"...on first year qbs, wow, great, jury is still out on first year qbs. You don't say. Jury is still out on whether Barkley will still be a productive player in this league at 29 years old. See, works both ways.

How about this, Giants picked a great player. Whether he was the right pick will be determined within the next 5 years.
I don't agree with the OP  
giantstock : 4/19/2019 3:59 pm : link
In regards to drafting all defense.

Sorry but this talk of "strength of the draft" is B.S. You take the best player available at positions of need.

Is all of a sudden RT set? And our Center position is subpar. IMO center is 2nd most important but whether it is or not how can you not face that 40% of the OLINE is juts not good enough? If you get one then 80% is okay -- but

YOu really think it okay to nOT give eli a strong OLIne?

And you know soon we need a NEW QB. You want him working with a line not near his best?

And as for Barkley. WHy wouldn't you want to give him the bets you can? This isn't like some "big back" you give him a good line and he can break it for 20+ yards. You give Barkley a terrific OLINE and if he gets by the 1st wave then he's GONE. Barkley is UNLIKE anything we've seen in ages. Give him "more" and he'll "exponentially" "improve."

And Eli NEEDS an OLINE BADLY. The eventual new QB needs it badly.

WHy wouldn;'t you want to give them the best IF there is similar value to me is mind-boggling.

This year we're probably going to lose anyways. But we want to see them win. Restricting Eli and restricting Barkley sure doesn't sound like a sound strategy to me if it can be avoided. Barkley will put extra points on the board with a good OL imo better than any other RB who has come forth in a long time. And ELi is near useless without it. GIVE ELI A CHANCE AS WELL AS THE EVENTUAL NEW QB.

Matt Ryan is a stud  
giantstock : 4/19/2019 4:08 pm : link
Secondly the Barkley pick will be fine as long as GMEN ca back it up with getting him a good QB and good OL.

Third, Barkley with a god OL and good QB will become an all-time great player if he remains injury free for a time.

Fourth, the jealousy of the Jets has to stop. Darnold will be a good QB in the future. I did not say "very good"or "Great" or "generational" or "transcendent" as others have tried to twist what I've said. But Darnold is a lock to be "good." IMo if he was on the giants many would change their tune and say he is going to be good.

Haskin may be the  
madgiantscow009 : 4/19/2019 4:10 pm : link
generational franchise talented quarterback we need.
Reading DG s comments about the draft,  
TMS : 4/19/2019 8:32 pm : link
He repeats over and over again he will take the BPA every time especially in the earlier rounds. That may not be a QB get it. He will be making the call so stop trying to make it something else. He is not a need drafter period.
RE: Matt Ryan is a stud  
Jim in Tampa : 4/19/2019 8:42 pm : link
In comment 14393872 giantstock said:
Quote:
Secondly the Barkley pick will be fine as long as GMEN ca back it up with getting him a good QB and good OL.

Third, Barkley with a god OL and good QB will become an all-time great player if he remains injury free for a time.

Fourth, the jealousy of the Jets has to stop. Darnold will be a good QB in the future. I did not say "very good"or "Great" or "generational" or "transcendent" as others have tried to twist what I've said. But Darnold is a lock to be "good." IMo if he was on the giants many would change their tune and say he is going to be good.

All fans pump up their own players, while the opposition's players either "still have a lot to prove" or they're just average.

That's why Giants fans have convinced themselves that Eli is (or was) better than Ryan and Rivers pales in comparison to Eli as well because Rivers hasn't won a Super Bowl.

But if Eli wasn't a Giant would BBI still view him as elite?
Generational talent  
USAF NYG Fan : 4/19/2019 8:55 pm : link
I see none in this draft. Doesn't mean there is not a player that can take that leap. I just don't see it right now. Not that I'm an expert. In fact I'm not an expert. However, in all the mock drafts I've read, nobody is rating any of these guys as a "generational" talent. Sure you might get one or two professionals falling in love with a player and making that claim but that's all. Barkley was different.

Barkley is a generational talent. Problem with many of you is you keep thinking based on position and not the player. Not only was he the highest rated PLAYER last year, he was the highest rated PLAYER on most (not just one or two) draft boards over the last 5-10 years. That's a generational talent.

Think about it. Think about it terms of giving the player a score (like Sy does). Can you think of a player over the last 10 years the scores higher than Barkley did? I'm not saying there isn't a player that scored higher. I just don't remember one. Andrew Luck maybe.

RE: Generational talent  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 9:01 pm : link
In comment 14394346 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
I see none in this draft. Doesn't mean there is not a player that can take that leap. I just don't see it right now. Not that I'm an expert. In fact I'm not an expert. However, in all the mock drafts I've read, nobody is rating any of these guys as a "generational" talent. Sure you might get one or two professionals falling in love with a player and making that claim but that's all. Barkley was different.

Barkley is a generational talent. Problem with many of you is you keep thinking based on position and not the player. Not only was he the highest rated PLAYER last year, he was the highest rated PLAYER on most (not just one or two) draft boards over the last 5-10 years. That's a generational talent.

Think about it. Think about it terms of giving the player a score (like Sy does). Can you think of a player over the last 10 years the scores higher than Barkley did? I'm not saying there isn't a player that scored higher. I just don't remember one. Andrew Luck maybe.


Thank you. So sick of the “you can get a good RB later” mentality ... Barkley is much more than just a RB
RE: RE: it seems to me  
section125 : 4/19/2019 9:10 pm : link
In comment 14393580 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14393492 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


"generational talent" is now the most overused phrase in sports and here at BBI.



Agreed. It never applied to Beckham, and I'm not sure it applies to Barkley.

I'd argue the only generational talent in the league today at any position is Rodgers.


Rodgers? Not Brady? Rodgers?

Cannot anoint Barkley yet, but since he and Peyton Manning are the only two players to get 94s, I'd say the possibility is strong.
Take the best player left on your board  
Marty866b : 4/19/2019 9:12 pm : link
If the draft goes like most think it will, the Giants should select Jonah Williams.
RE: Take the best player left on your board  
USAF NYG Fan : 4/19/2019 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14394371 Marty866b said:
Quote:
If the draft goes like most think it will, the Giants should select Jonah Williams.

I agree with this. So many here saying it's a defensive draft so they are "throwing their remote" if they don't take defense. Hell, that's worse than picking a position.

You hit the nail on the head. Unless the Giants have a guy ranked higher than Jonah. From what I'm reading, all players with a higher grade then Jonah will likely be gone. If Jonah has a higher grade AND OT is one of the Giants bigger needs at an important position, they should take him at 6.

The only other alternative is if they secretly rank Haskins as the best QB (i.e. high grade) and have been blowing a lot of smoke out there essentially using the asshats to their advantage. Nothing personal to the asshats out there. Don't stop what you are doing. The rumors are still fun and interesting.
RE: RE: Generational talent  
Go Terps : 4/19/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14394359 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14394346 USAF NYG Fan said:


Quote:


I see none in this draft. Doesn't mean there is not a player that can take that leap. I just don't see it right now. Not that I'm an expert. In fact I'm not an expert. However, in all the mock drafts I've read, nobody is rating any of these guys as a "generational" talent. Sure you might get one or two professionals falling in love with a player and making that claim but that's all. Barkley was different.

Barkley is a generational talent. Problem with many of you is you keep thinking based on position and not the player. Not only was he the highest rated PLAYER last year, he was the highest rated PLAYER on most (not just one or two) draft boards over the last 5-10 years. That's a generational talent.

Think about it. Think about it terms of giving the player a score (like Sy does). Can you think of a player over the last 10 years the scores higher than Barkley did? I'm not saying there isn't a player that scored higher. I just don't remember one. Andrew Luck maybe.




Thank you. So sick of the “you can get a good RB later” mentality ... Barkley is much more than just a RB


BS rationalization for picking a RB #2 overall. He's a running back, and while he's very good he isn't doing anything that hasn't been seen before. He's on a level with Kamara, Gurley, and Elliott, but he isn't above them.

I'm reminded of when people spewed the generational nonsense about Beckham, even though he was never at any point even the best receiver in the league in his own time.

And now people get carried away based on one season of Barkley. Slow down.
Even if that is what Barkley is, he was still worth the top pick  
PatersonPlank : 4/19/2019 10:55 pm : link
ahead of Darnold, Allen, and Rosen
RE: RE: RE: Generational talent  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14394473 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14394359 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14394346 USAF NYG Fan said:


Quote:


I see none in this draft. Doesn't mean there is not a player that can take that leap. I just don't see it right now. Not that I'm an expert. In fact I'm not an expert. However, in all the mock drafts I've read, nobody is rating any of these guys as a "generational" talent. Sure you might get one or two professionals falling in love with a player and making that claim but that's all. Barkley was different.

Barkley is a generational talent. Problem with many of you is you keep thinking based on position and not the player. Not only was he the highest rated PLAYER last year, he was the highest rated PLAYER on most (not just one or two) draft boards over the last 5-10 years. That's a generational talent.

Think about it. Think about it terms of giving the player a score (like Sy does). Can you think of a player over the last 10 years the scores higher than Barkley did? I'm not saying there isn't a player that scored higher. I just don't remember one. Andrew Luck maybe.




Thank you. So sick of the “you can get a good RB later” mentality ... Barkley is much more than just a RB



BS rationalization for picking a RB #2 overall. He's a running back, and while he's very good he isn't doing anything that hasn't been seen before. He's on a level with Kamara, Gurley, and Elliott, but he isn't above them.

I'm reminded of when people spewed the generational nonsense about Beckham, even though he was never at any point even the best receiver in the league in his own time.

And now people get carried away based on one season of Barkley. Slow down.


He’s better than every single 1 of them. Kamara’s own coach referred to Barkley as the best RB prospect in decades. Several scouts have declared him the best RB prospect to come out since Adrian Peterson.

He is more explosive and much better in the pass game than Zeke. Kamara’s a nice player, there’s nothing he can do that Barkley can’t do as good or better - and he’s doing it on a 230 pound frame.

230 pound RBs with his power, speed, agility, and ability to contribute in the passing game do not come along often. He is “generational” whether you want to admit it or not. Just because the phrase gets tossed around too often doesn’t mean it isn’t applicable to Barkley.

We are lucky to have him.
.  
Go Terps : 4/19/2019 11:24 pm : link
Well he wasn't better than all of them last year, and that was Barkley's only year in the pros, so it's a comment based in nothing.
Marshall Faulk is the best single player comp for Saquon...  
Torrag : 4/19/2019 11:26 pm : link
...not coincidentally he was drafted 2nd Overall.
RE: .  
GothamGiants : 4/19/2019 11:45 pm : link
In comment 14394517 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Well he wasn't better than all of them last year, and that was Barkley's only year in the pros, so it's a comment based in nothing.


Would you mind telling me who was the NFL leader in yards from scrimmage last year?

He also had a higher yards/carry than all of them, despite the worst OL of the group.

He also led the league in forced missed tackles and was also the #1 graded RB in football in terms of breakaway %

So, he had more scrimmage yards than all of them. He had a higher per carry average than all of them. He led the entire league in forced missed tackles. He led his position in big play ability as well.

Basically, he was the most all around productive RB in the league, the most elusive RB in the league, and the best big play threat at his position in the league.

Good night.

Saquon Barkley - ( New Window )
...  
christian : 4/20/2019 12:14 am : link
Barkley is a very good RB, maybe the best, but that doesn't make RB any more of an important position. Running the ball in this era is plainly more inefficient than passing, and the numbers don't support running/stopping the run as an indication of winning more often.

The Giants were still a bottom third rushing team overall, despite his individual success.

If this is going to be a run oriented offense (which I think is a bad idea in this era), they need to run the ball a lot more and get more RBs involved.

That of requires better offensive line play. And on value both long and immediate term I'd actually rather have the best right tackle in the league than running back.
RE: RE: RE: Not really.  
Danny80 : 4/20/2019 12:16 am : link
In comment 14393592 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14393556 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


In comment 14393529 Bill L said:


Quote:


By almost all accounts, Barkley *is* generational.

OTOH, every pick a QB, any QB you get seems to be labeled "franchise".

In truth, both terms are pre4tty much useless propagandist rhetorical devices designed to make the person you want picked seem better than he actually is.



by what accounts is Barkley a generational talent? It is a meaningless term. He's great. There are other great backs. He will probably run out of juice in five or six years like most RBs, whereas a top QB will be excellent for 15 years.



Dude, do you watch the games? Barkley is a phenom, he’s like Bo and Barry Sanders combined and catches like a WR. If he wasn’t in last year’s draft I would have been 100% on the QB wagon, but you can’t pass up on a guy like that, he makes your whole offense better. There is no guarantee Darnold, Allen, or Rosen pan out. So far Mayfield is the only one of that bunch that has seemingly shown he will be a good one. Jury is still out on the rest.


I don't fully understand this logic. Saquon was the best player in the draft. Gettleman said it over and over again--the best player in the draft. Had to draft him. If Saquon was the best player in the draft, then Baker Mayfield wasn't. But are you more excited about the Browns' future now with Baker Mayfield or the Giants' future with Saquon? And how many wins do you think the Browns would have had without Baker? And how much excitement would there be about that team even with Tyrod Taylor as their incumbent QB? Like it or not, especially in the modern NFL, having a very good QB gives you the best chance not only to win, but to have sustained success for a decade or more, as other players come and go.

My bottom line point is, either take a QB at #6 if they think the QB can be their franchise QB for 10-15 years, or don't take a QB until a later round. If Gettleman doesn't think any QB available is worth the value at #6, don't take one at #17. Statistically, the chances of a QB being a great player or even a long time starter for the team that drafted him go way down after the top 10 (and go down substantially after top 5 or so).

The reason is this: QB is far different than any almost any other position (other than kicker/punter) in one major respect. In the NFL, the QB is either the starter or he doesn't play at all (absent injury). So if you pick a QB at 17 and he's not quite good enough to be a very good starter, he rides the bench unless there's an injury and doesn't contribute on the field at all. If you draft a defensive end or pass rushing LB at 17, he may not be an every down player for you in his first year or two because he's not strong enough against the run, but you can still plug him in as a pass rusher on passing downs and he can contribute greatly to your team. Even if he never becomes a good run stopper, he can still be a great pass rusher on passing downs. Even with offensive lineman, if your expected left tackle turns out not to be a really good left tackle, there's a chance you can move him to right tackle or inside to guard. Unless he was just a bust all around, he has the potential to make your team better even if it wasn't at the position you anticipated. You can't do that with a QB.
RE: ...  
Go Terps : 4/20/2019 12:47 am : link
In comment 14394548 christian said:
Quote:
Barkley is a very good RB, maybe the best, but that doesn't make RB any more of an important position. Running the ball in this era is plainly more inefficient than passing, and the numbers don't support running/stopping the run as an indication of winning more often.

The Giants were still a bottom third rushing team overall, despite his individual success.

If this is going to be a run oriented offense (which I think is a bad idea in this era), they need to run the ball a lot more and get more RBs involved.

That of requires better offensive line play. And on value both long and immediate term I'd actually rather have the best right tackle in the league than running back.


Really good post. Though I wonder, is there value in going the opposite way of most offenses? How many defenses are staffed to face and practicing against run based offenses?
RE: RE: ...  
Danny80 : 4/20/2019 1:01 am : link
In comment 14394562 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14394548 christian said:


Quote:


Barkley is a very good RB, maybe the best, but that doesn't make RB any more of an important position. Running the ball in this era is plainly more inefficient than passing, and the numbers don't support running/stopping the run as an indication of winning more often.

The Giants were still a bottom third rushing team overall, despite his individual success.

If this is going to be a run oriented offense (which I think is a bad idea in this era), they need to run the ball a lot more and get more RBs involved.

That of requires better offensive line play. And on value both long and immediate term I'd actually rather have the best right tackle in the league than running back.



Really good post. Though I wonder, is there value in going the opposite way of most offenses? How many defenses are staffed to face and practicing against run based offenses?


Seems hard. The rules are just stacked so much in favor of passing now. Unnecessary roughness calls, safety of the QB has become paramount, contact between DBs and Wrs, pass interference putting the ball at the spot of the foul--all those rules benefit the passing game. The rules haven't gone in favor of the running game the same way.
RE: Marshall Faulk is the best single player comp for Saquon...  
NoGainDayne : 4/20/2019 1:07 am : link
In comment 14394522 Torrag said:
Quote:
...not coincidentally he was drafted 2nd Overall.


The Colts were not a good team with the youngest freshest Marshall Faulk. And they let him leave in FA.

Rams won with a QB on a discounted deal and a very well rounded team.

Giants look way more like the Colts team that failed with Faulk than the Rams team that succeeded with him.
RE: RE: ...  
NoGainDayne : 4/20/2019 1:24 am : link
In comment 14394562 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14394548 christian said:


Quote:


Barkley is a very good RB, maybe the best, but that doesn't make RB any more of an important position. Running the ball in this era is plainly more inefficient than passing, and the numbers don't support running/stopping the run as an indication of winning more often.

The Giants were still a bottom third rushing team overall, despite his individual success.

If this is going to be a run oriented offense (which I think is a bad idea in this era), they need to run the ball a lot more and get more RBs involved.

That of requires better offensive line play. And on value both long and immediate term I'd actually rather have the best right tackle in the league than running back.



Really good post. Though I wonder, is there value in going the opposite way of most offenses? How many defenses are staffed to face and practicing against run based offenses?


I think the rule changes just favor passing too much. That and the fact that you have to allocate so much to the QB position pretty much automatically. I mean Josh McCown was a $10M cap hit last year more than any RB. I also think Christians point is a good one, RT or even G I would rather have the best player than RB.

I think if you need your RB to be world beating it means your line isn't good enough.

I'd much rather have a line opening up consistent holes than a RB that can take it to the house on any play.

Besides I think the biggest issue with a run dependent strategy is at some point you are going to need to stage a comeback and run dependence is not good for that.

Finally I think we've seen this. Best chance of winning a SB is with a top QB or top defense both are safest. A top QB on some kind of discount is ideal. You can get away with a mediocre defense or QB if the other one is dominant. This is to say i'm not sure it's ever smart to assume a paradigm shift will work just because it might catch some off guard. If there was anything to back up that a run dominant style of play might work well now then hey, i'm good with being different. But I'm not sure if there is any such evidence or logical reasoning to suggest it would
RE: RE: RE: ...  
giantstock : 4/20/2019 5:09 am : link
In comment 14394571 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14394562 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14394548 christian said:


Quote:


Barkley is a very good RB, maybe the best, but that doesn't make RB any more of an important position. Running the ball in this era is plainly more inefficient than passing, and the numbers don't support running/stopping the run as an indication of winning more often.

The Giants were still a bottom third rushing team overall, despite his individual success.

If this is going to be a run oriented offense (which I think is a bad idea in this era), they need to run the ball a lot more and get more RBs involved.

That of requires better offensive line play. And on value both long and immediate term I'd actually rather have the best right tackle in the league than running back.



Really good post. Though I wonder, is there value in going the opposite way of most offenses? How many defenses are staffed to face and practicing against run based offenses?



I think the rule changes just favor passing too much. That and the fact that you have to allocate so much to the QB position pretty much automatically. I mean Josh McCown was a $10M cap hit last year more than any RB. I also think Christians point is a good one, RT or even G I would rather have the best player than RB.

I think if you need your RB to be world beating it means your line isn't good enough.

I'd much rather have a line opening up consistent holes than a RB that can take it to the house on any play.

Besides I think the biggest issue with a run dependent strategy is at some point you are going to need to stage a comeback and run dependence is not good for that.

Finally I think we've seen this. Best chance of winning a SB is with a top QB or top defense both are safest. A top QB on some kind of discount is ideal. You can get away with a mediocre defense or QB if the other one is dominant. This is to say i'm not sure it's ever smart to assume a paradigm shift will work just because it might catch some off guard. If there was anything to back up that a run dominant style of play might work well now then hey, i'm good with being different. But I'm not sure if there is any such evidence or logical reasoning to suggest it would


This is why they need to draft an OLienman in the 1st rd and maybe even in the 2nd rd. Barkley is great enough to be the exception. But just as we say a QB needs an OL -- so does Barkley.

You can;t go and just build the defense and then expect Barkley to put the mediocre Giants offense on his back and lead them anywhere.

You give Barkley a very good OLINE then he becomes just as dangerous as many QB's in the NFL. Because unlike all the other running backs, his combination of speed, power and elusiveness is more dangerous in the open field (just like when you give a good QB time to throw) than what we've seen in years.

Get him a god OLINE and a good QB -- not plug-and-play OLinemen you get "on value" that are only "passable" or a Qb like Jones with an enormous limitation-- he'll be dynamic in terms of leading his team to many wins. The offense needs to be built as priority to allow him to be "prolific."
RE: RE: .  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 4/20/2019 7:14 am : link
In comment 14394537 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14394517 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Well he wasn't better than all of them last year, and that was Barkley's only year in the pros, so it's a comment based in nothing.



Would you mind telling me who was the NFL leader in yards from scrimmage last year?

He also had a higher yards/carry than all of them, despite the worst OL of the group.

He also led the league in forced missed tackles and was also the #1 graded RB in football in terms of breakaway %

So, he had more scrimmage yards than all of them. He had a higher per carry average than all of them. He led the entire league in forced missed tackles. He led his position in big play ability as well.

Basically, he was the most all around productive RB in the league, the most elusive RB in the league, and the best big play threat at his position in the league.

Good night. Saquon Barkley - ( New Window )


Excellent post, though you left out one thing---with all that he also never lost a fumble.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
BlueVinnie : 4/20/2019 7:51 am : link
In comment 14394571 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14394562 Go Terps said:



I think the rule changes just favor passing too much. That and the fact that you have to allocate so much to the QB position pretty much automatically. I mean Josh McCown was a $10M cap hit last year more than any RB. I also think Christians point is a good one, RT or even G I would rather have the best player than RB.

I think if you need your RB to be world beating it means your line isn't good enough.

I'd much rather have a line opening up consistent holes than a RB that can take it to the house on any play.

Besides I think the biggest issue with a run dependent strategy is at some point you are going to need to stage a comeback and run dependence is not good for that.

Finally I think we've seen this. Best chance of winning a SB is with a top QB or top defense both are safest. A top QB on some kind of discount is ideal. You can get away with a mediocre defense or QB if the other one is dominant. This is to say i'm not sure it's ever smart to assume a paradigm shift will work just because it might catch some off guard. If there was anything to back up that a run dominant style of play might work well now then hey, i'm good with being different. But I'm not sure if there is any such evidence or logical reasoning to suggest it would


This was an outstanding post! Well said NoGain. Saquon is an outstanding RB - no doubt. He will probably be considered the best RB in the league this year if he is not already. He may even prove to be a "Gold Jacket" guy. However, gold jacket RBs don't necessarily win Super Bowls or are even needed to win Super Bowls.
RE: RE: RE: Generational talent  
USAF NYG Fan : 4/20/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14394473 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14394359 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14394346 USAF NYG Fan said:


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I see none in this draft. Doesn't mean there is not a player that can take that leap. I just don't see it right now. Not that I'm an expert. In fact I'm not an expert. However, in all the mock drafts I've read, nobody is rating any of these guys as a "generational" talent. Sure you might get one or two professionals falling in love with a player and making that claim but that's all. Barkley was different.

Barkley is a generational talent. Problem with many of you is you keep thinking based on position and not the player. Not only was he the highest rated PLAYER last year, he was the highest rated PLAYER on most (not just one or two) draft boards over the last 5-10 years. That's a generational talent.

Think about it. Think about it terms of giving the player a score (like Sy does). Can you think of a player over the last 10 years the scores higher than Barkley did? I'm not saying there isn't a player that scored higher. I just don't remember one. Andrew Luck maybe.




Thank you. So sick of the “you can get a good RB later” mentality ... Barkley is much more than just a RB



BS rationalization for picking a RB #2 overall. He's a running back, and while he's very good he isn't doing anything that hasn't been seen before. He's on a level with Kamara, Gurley, and Elliott, but he isn't above them.

I'm reminded of when people spewed the generational nonsense about Beckham, even though he was never at any point even the best receiver in the league in his own time.

And now people get carried away based on one season of Barkley. Slow down.

Bullshit rationalization? Try reality.

It has nothing to do with the season in the NFL but I'll go there as well since you want to. Later. I thought we were talking about the player coming out of the draft. No PLAYER (regardless of position) has been rated that high in 10 years. You are stuck on RB. Giants had a need to improve the run game. 99% of the time I would say don't bother drafting a RB high unless you have an OL that can open holes for him. Barkley was/is that 1% exception.

You're reminded of when people spewed the generational nonsense about Beckham? Was that pre-draft because I don't remember anyone saying that. Even if they did, as I said, every draft there are 1 or 2 people enamored with a player. Barkley was being called generational by damn near every expert out there. Rightfully shown.

He isn't doing anything that hasn't been seen before? You're half right. On any given play I think, well he looked like Gayle Sayers there. Well on that play he showed moves like Barry Sanders. Man, he just snatched that ball out of the air just like OBJ does. It's not just his play on the field either. When cameras caught a great interaction with him and Peterson after a game together I remember thinking 1. Peterson is really giving him tons or props and 2. Barkley showing serious class and respect to Peterson. So he even has more class than any of the RBs you mentioned. You mentioned Elliot, Gurley, and Kamara and actually believe they are all in the same class? That's absurd. Barkley can do everything they can but none of them can do everything Barkley can do. He also does it behind a worse OL than any of them.

Barkley led the league in ALL-PURPOSE YARDS as a ROOKIE with 2,028 yards. Every other RB that puts up those numbers has/had a better OL than Barkley had in front of him. In my book that puts him ahead of those RBs.

Don't get me wrong. Those are all great RBs. However, none of them were rated as highly as Barkley at draft time. If they were on the Giants with Barkley, they would all be his backup/relief.
So sick of this “passing league” bs  
GothamGiants : 4/20/2019 8:44 am : link
Yes the stats are inflated and the game has changed, but running the ball + playing defense still wins championships

In 2016, half of the entire playoff field finished top 10 in rushing. SB matchup featuring the 5th and 7th best rushing teams in the league.

In 2017, all 4 teams in the conference championship were top 10 in rushing. 2 were top 3 in the league in rushing.

In 2018, 3/4 team top 10 in rushing (all of them being top 6). All 3 have 1st round RBs on their roster, including the 2 SB teams. KC, the team that wasn’t, still was 6th overall in yards/attempt.

Yes, the game has changed. However, running the ball, stopping the run, and pressuring the QB still win out in the end - regardless of how many fantasy points your QB points up.

Build up this defense with the elite talent available next week. Feed Saquon Barkley behind an improved OL. This approach gets the Giants back into playoff contention - this year.

Barkley is a super player that our GM couldn't pass up...easy pick.  
Jimmy Googs : 4/20/2019 8:56 am : link
But now Gettleman has to put his big-boy pants on and improve this team in numerous positions with guys that weren't touched by the hand of God.

This is harder...

RE: Barkley is a super player that our GM couldn't pass up...easy pick.  
GothamGiants : 4/20/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14394685 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
But now Gettleman has to put his big-boy pants on and improve this team in numerous positions with guys that weren't touched by the hand of God.

This is harder...


I expect a very aggressive approach with them ultimately selecting 8 or 9 players after a few trade ups. He flat out said picking 37th and then late 3rd is going to be rough, I expect a trade up with the plethora of day 3 picks used as ammo. I want to see 2 1st, 1 second, 2 3rd, 2 4th rounders when it’s all said and done. Based on his haul last year, and his prior success, I’m optimistic he comes out of next week with 3 or 4 instant contributors.

I know they’ve done a ton of work on Herbert. I expect a massive trade next year (if necessary) to acquire him and he hitches his NYG legacy to that “franchise QB”.
If you believe our D blew games for Eli then  
twostepgiants : 4/20/2019 10:02 am : link
You believe Matt Ryan can win the Super Bowl

He had a 28-3 lead deep in the 3rd in the Super Bowl vs the Belichick Patriots

Thats good enough to win in 99% of circumstances

Matt Ryan has slso won an NFL MVP
RE: If you believe our D blew games for Eli then  
USAF NYG Fan : 4/20/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14394790 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
You believe Matt Ryan can win the Super Bowl

He had a 28-3 lead deep in the 3rd in the Super Bowl vs the Belichick Patriots

Thats good enough to win in 99% of circumstances

Matt Ryan has slso won an NFL MVP


2nd & 8 at NE 49
(4:47 - 4th) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass deep right to J.Jones to NE 22 for 27 yards. They are now well within FG range to essentially put the game away making it a 2 score lead.

1st & 10 at NE 22
(4:40 - 4th) D.Freeman left end to NE 23 for -1 yards (D.McCourty). Smart, safe, conservative move.

2nd & 11 at NE 23
(3:56 - 4th) (Shotgun) M.Ryan sacked at NE 35 for -12 yards (T.Flowers). You absolutely can't take the sack there but at least they are still in FG range.

3rd & 23 at NE 35
(3:50 - 4th) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass short left to M.Sanu pushed ob at NE 26 for 9 yards (L.Ryan). PENALTY on ATL-J.Matthews, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NE 35 - No Play. Devastating call here. Not that it's Ryan's fault.

3rd & 33 at NE 45
(3:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete short left to T.Gabriel. Gabriel has a step on the defender heading to the sideline and Ryan threw an uncatchable ball. Would have made it 4th on the NE 33 (within FG range).

I'm not saying Ryan can't win a SB or that the loss was on him but he did make two big mistakes on a drive that would have ended the Patriots comeback. Eli came through and scored for his team at the end of his SBs. All Ryan had to do was game manage at that point but didn't. Still, to your point, I think I would blame it more on the Falcons coaching in the 2nd half.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Generational talent  
Danny80 : 4/20/2019 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14394626 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 14394473 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14394359 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14394346 USAF NYG Fan said:


Quote:


I see none in this draft. Doesn't mean there is not a player that can take that leap. I just don't see it right now. Not that I'm an expert. In fact I'm not an expert. However, in all the mock drafts I've read, nobody is rating any of these guys as a "generational" talent. Sure you might get one or two professionals falling in love with a player and making that claim but that's all. Barkley was different.

Barkley is a generational talent. Problem with many of you is you keep thinking based on position and not the player. Not only was he the highest rated PLAYER last year, he was the highest rated PLAYER on most (not just one or two) draft boards over the last 5-10 years. That's a generational talent.

Think about it. Think about it terms of giving the player a score (like Sy does). Can you think of a player over the last 10 years the scores higher than Barkley did? I'm not saying there isn't a player that scored higher. I just don't remember one. Andrew Luck maybe.




Thank you. So sick of the “you can get a good RB later” mentality ... Barkley is much more than just a RB



BS rationalization for picking a RB #2 overall. He's a running back, and while he's very good he isn't doing anything that hasn't been seen before. He's on a level with Kamara, Gurley, and Elliott, but he isn't above them.

I'm reminded of when people spewed the generational nonsense about Beckham, even though he was never at any point even the best receiver in the league in his own time.

And now people get carried away based on one season of Barkley. Slow down.


Bullshit rationalization? Try reality.

It has nothing to do with the season in the NFL but I'll go there as well since you want to. Later. I thought we were talking about the player coming out of the draft. No PLAYER (regardless of position) has been rated that high in 10 years. You are stuck on RB. Giants had a need to improve the run game. 99% of the time I would say don't bother drafting a RB high unless you have an OL that can open holes for him. Barkley was/is that 1% exception.

You're reminded of when people spewed the generational nonsense about Beckham? Was that pre-draft because I don't remember anyone saying that. Even if they did, as I said, every draft there are 1 or 2 people enamored with a player. Barkley was being called generational by damn near every expert out there. Rightfully shown.

He isn't doing anything that hasn't been seen before? You're half right. On any given play I think, well he looked like Gayle Sayers there. Well on that play he showed moves like Barry Sanders. Man, he just snatched that ball out of the air just like OBJ does. It's not just his play on the field either. When cameras caught a great interaction with him and Peterson after a game together I remember thinking 1. Peterson is really giving him tons or props and 2. Barkley showing serious class and respect to Peterson. So he even has more class than any of the RBs you mentioned. You mentioned Elliot, Gurley, and Kamara and actually believe they are all in the same class? That's absurd. Barkley can do everything they can but none of them can do everything Barkley can do. He also does it behind a worse OL than any of them.

Barkley led the league in ALL-PURPOSE YARDS as a ROOKIE with 2,028 yards. Every other RB that puts up those numbers has/had a better OL than Barkley had in front of him. In my book that puts him ahead of those RBs.

Don't get me wrong. Those are all great RBs. However, none of them were rated as highly as Barkley at draft time. If they were on the Giants with Barkley, they would all be his backup/relief.


The one thing that few people mention is that a lot of Barkley's yards, especially receiving yards, were on garbage plays that amounted to nothing. 3rd and 10 and check down to Barkley for a 6 yard gain to make it 4th and 4. Barley had some great runs and some great catches and runs, and more than a lot of broken tackles which were possibly the most impressive thing about him, but a few hundred or more of his yards were on check down plays that didn't help the offense move the ball forward. And for all of Barkley's yards, where was the Giants run game ranked last year?

I love featured backs, and if the Giants had a future at QB and an O-Line in place, I would've been ecstatic to have him (and, again, if the Giants had a QB of the future, I would have gladly traded OBJ if the choice was Barkley or OBJ because you can't afford both while also bolstering your defense and o-line), but without all those other pieces, Barkley's talent may well be wasted on years of bad teams -- just like Barry Sanders was. And no, I'm not ready to compare Barkley to Barry. Barkley did not even compare to Barry in college, and although Barkley had one very good year, he'd have to put up many years better than he had this year to compare to Barry.
RE: So sick of this “passing league” bs  
Danny80 : 4/20/2019 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14394672 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
Yes the stats are inflated and the game has changed, but running the ball + playing defense still wins championships

In 2016, half of the entire playoff field finished top 10 in rushing. SB matchup featuring the 5th and 7th best rushing teams in the league.

In 2017, all 4 teams in the conference championship were top 10 in rushing. 2 were top 3 in the league in rushing.

In 2018, 3/4 team top 10 in rushing (all of them being top 6). All 3 have 1st round RBs on their roster, including the 2 SB teams. KC, the team that wasn’t, still was 6th overall in yards/attempt.

Yes, the game has changed. However, running the ball, stopping the run, and pressuring the QB still win out in the end - regardless of how many fantasy points your QB points up.

Build up this defense with the elite talent available next week. Feed Saquon Barkley behind an improved OL. This approach gets the Giants back into playoff contention - this year.


The problem with relying on an elite defense is that they don't last in modern free agency. Yes, a team can have one or two great years with an elite defense. But with an elite defense, there are at least 6-9 guys on that defense that you need to keep together in order for that defense to remain elite. All of them have different contracts, become free agents at different times and it is impossible to keep all of them. Look at a team like the Jaguars. Elite defense, made it very far into the playoffs two years ago, then broke down with a bad QB. And in one more year, half or more of their really good defensive players will be gone. And then the defense is far from elite.
The league is moving away from the QB model  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/20/2019 1:43 pm : link
That much is clear to me. There are more guys than ever that can play. It is definitely best to build up your team, draft a guy and make a run for 4 years while he is under rookie contract. I wouldn't be surprised if more and more teams balk at paying big contracts to QB. Look at what is going on in Dallas right now. Dak has some nice qualities but he is thouroughly mediocre. You can replace his production with lots of these 1st round QBs that have come out in the last 5 years and not pay 25 million to do it.
RE: The league is moving away from the QB model  
NoGainDayne : 4/20/2019 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14395143 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
That much is clear to me. There are more guys than ever that can play. It is definitely best to build up your team, draft a guy and make a run for 4 years while he is under rookie contract. I wouldn't be surprised if more and more teams balk at paying big contracts to QB. Look at what is going on in Dallas right now. Dak has some nice qualities but he is thouroughly mediocre. You can replace his production with lots of these 1st round QBs that have come out in the last 5 years and not pay 25 million to do it.


I think you are right here but having a cheaper QB doesn't mean you want to spend that money on an RB. You'd rather spend it on OL, DL, Edge, DB, WR in that order IMO. I still think paying a top 5 QB like a top 5 QB is a fine way to win no evidence whatsoever that an having an elite RB helps you win a SB.
RE: it seems to me  
Jersey55 : 4/20/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14393492 FranchiseQB said:
Quote:
"generational talent" is now the most overused phrase in sports and here at BBI.
you're right about that, up until around 3 years ago I never head that expresson and now that's all we hear from all sports writers and TV people..
We have just been been burned by a high OT pick  
TMS : 4/20/2019 11:40 pm : link
Flowers . Do not see us going there again . A lot of these guys do not work out. Think OT that high is non starter for this team.
RE: RE: So sick of this “passing league” bs  
GothamGiants : 4/21/2019 12:42 am : link
In comment 14395101 Danny80 said:
Quote:
In comment 14394672 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


Yes the stats are inflated and the game has changed, but running the ball + playing defense still wins championships

In 2016, half of the entire playoff field finished top 10 in rushing. SB matchup featuring the 5th and 7th best rushing teams in the league.

In 2017, all 4 teams in the conference championship were top 10 in rushing. 2 were top 3 in the league in rushing.

In 2018, 3/4 team top 10 in rushing (all of them being top 6). All 3 have 1st round RBs on their roster, including the 2 SB teams. KC, the team that wasn’t, still was 6th overall in yards/attempt.

Yes, the game has changed. However, running the ball, stopping the run, and pressuring the QB still win out in the end - regardless of how many fantasy points your QB points up.

Build up this defense with the elite talent available next week. Feed Saquon Barkley behind an improved OL. This approach gets the Giants back into playoff contention - this year.




The problem with relying on an elite defense is that they don't last in modern free agency. Yes, a team can have one or two great years with an elite defense. But with an elite defense, there are at least 6-9 guys on that defense that you need to keep together in order for that defense to remain elite. All of them have different contracts, become free agents at different times and it is impossible to keep all of them. Look at a team like the Jaguars. Elite defense, made it very far into the playoffs two years ago, then broke down with a bad QB. And in one more year, half or more of their really good defensive players will be gone. And then the defense is far from elite.


I’m not saying rely on an “elite” defense.

I’m saying this draft is loaded with so much talent on defense, and we need so much talent on defense, that it is the no brainer approach to build up that part of the roster with actual quality prospects instead of drafting just to check off a need.

Every draft should be viewed differently. In a perfect world there’s great prospects available at spots you need talent. That doesn’t always work out ... so, should you draft to fill a “need” or do you take the best player available and continue to stockpile a talented roster?

An elite defense isn’t simply big names or BS “probowls”. It’s having impact players available at each level and depth to rotate as needed and keep players fresh. That is what has plagued this team recently ... terrible drafts followed by overpaying good players as elite players and then wondering why they still suck.

Best. Player. Available. Every draft - every pick.

pick within the tier available  
fkap : 4/21/2019 9:49 am : link
never pick from a lower tier if a higher tier player is available. that includes QB.

within a tier, though, positional need comes into play. it is never BPA vs positional need, but rather a mix of the two.

At the top of a draft, QB gets more weight from me. Once the middle of the first round passes, though, QB weighting drops like a stone. While examples of good QBs taken late first and below can be found, most are destined to be backups. first and second rounders should be reasonably expected to be starters and that is more likely picking a non QB position.

I repeat: never pick from a lower tier if a higher tier player is available.
RE: We have just been been burned by a high OT pick  
Klaatu : 4/21/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14395777 TMS said:
Quote:
Flowers . Do not see us going there again . A lot of these guys do not work out. Think OT that high is non starter for this team.


Flowers was drafted four years ago, by a different GM. What does that have to do with this year?

As for an OT that high being a "non starter," I have two words for you: Chad Wheeler.
RE: RE: Yeah 2,000 yards from scrimmage as a rookie  
djm : 4/21/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14393567 FranchiseQB said:
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In comment 14393559 figgy2989 said:


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behind one of the worst OL's in football is just like any back.



sure ... keep telling yourself it was a phenomenal pick. And let's revisit in six years.


Oh just quit it already. You’re wrong just accept it and be happy that Barkley is a giant instead of conplaining every day.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not really.  
djm : 4/21/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14393673 FranchiseQB said:
Quote:
In comment 14393645 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14393556 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


In comment 14393529 Bill L said:


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By almost all accounts, Barkley *is* generational.

OTOH, every pick a QB, any QB you get seems to be labeled "franchise".

In truth, both terms are pre4tty much useless propagandist rhetorical devices designed to make the person you want picked seem better than he actually is.



by what accounts is Barkley a generational talent? It is a meaningless term. He's great. There are other great backs. He will probably run out of juice in five or six years like most RBs, whereas a top QB will be excellent for 15 years.



There are other great backs. How many of them are 230 pounds, elite options in the passing game, excellent in short yardage/goal line, and also among the most explosive offensive players in the game?

but yes let’s fast forward 6 years from now and assume the QB is a “franchise QB” for a decade.

Barkley was a gift. A gift we were lucky to be in place to select.




So Chris Johnson was a better selection than Matt Ryan? Cause they went in the same draft and CJ broke that scrimmage yards record, and still holds it. I'm pretty sure in 2009 everyone would say CJ was the better selection, hands down. Today they would say Ryan, hands down. See how time changes perception?


You see this is the shit that drives me nuts with some of you. Barkley was in fact a better prospect than Johnson but more importantly, darnold, Allen, Rosen or Jackson were NOT in Matt Ryan’s class as collegiate talents coming into the NFL. Ryan was a cleaner prospect than darnold.

You also don’t get to utilize the retrospect angle when making a pick at the top of the draft. You’re lost. I can’t take some of you who can’t wait to second guess a move ten fucking years later and pound your chests with the I told you so garbage.

Darnold was a good looking qb.
Barkley was a flawless and perfect RB prospect.

Enough already. It’s one thing to second guess a move that makes no sense at the time it was made. Taking Barkley over anyone was too easy. No, you don’t get to sit here and talk shit 7 years from now if one of these pretty good qb prospects from the 18 class ends up winning big because there is so much more that goes into the qb winning than just the qb’s skill set or talents. It’s a team game. Darnold or Allen May win one day but it won’t be easy and about 10 things will need to go right for them and their respective teams. This won’t stop the loud mouths here from telling the world they just knew darnold was the better pick all along. Who knows what darnold does it drafted by the wrong team or the right team.

Fucking QBs and the fan’s laughable analytics make my head hurt.
...  
GothamGiants : 4/21/2019 10:41 am : link
If it weren’t for some questionable calls in the afc championship 2 years ago, we would’ve just seen a Foles / Bortles SB 2 years ago. We did just see a SB featuring 2 1st round RBs on their respective teams.

Gurley was the centerpiece of the Rams all season. The Patriots road Sony Michel throughout the playoffs to the promised land this year. Brady had more INTs this post season than TDs.

Barkley is more talented than both of those RBs. Now, let’s take advantage of the 2019 talent available on defense and actually build a balanced team
RE: RE: it seems to me  
Jersey55 : 4/22/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14393496 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14393492 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


"generational talent" is now the most overused phrase in sports and here at BBI.



That and Franchise QB



both of those phrases seem to have started just a few years ago and the media took off and ran with them, how can a kid drafted out of college be a "franchise" QB before he has even taken a snap in the pros, just more media hype...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Not really.  
giantstock : 4/22/2019 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14396099 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14393673 FranchiseQB said:


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No, you don’t get to sit here and talk shit 7 years from now if one of these pretty good qb prospects from the 18 class ends up winning big b


Absolutely you do. Just because you don;t want to accept it. There are analysts on these football channels that say picking a RB is a mistake. SO if someone were to believe in their philosophy and it holds true it doesn't mean it isn't valid just because you don;t want to hear it.

In other words they believe in a certain style of drafting that differs from yours. If they said for example they would have taken Darnold - and Darnold wins -- I can't believe you think their opinion isn;t valid. They are telling you right now it's a mistake and you just dont want to hear it -- if what they said would happen to come true.
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