So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
With just a little more help we could turn this thread into something political and get rid of it. If it isn't already there . . .
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
Ha! Enjoy your virtue-signalling. As if anyone would release that song today, or make a movie with a "Mantan Moreland-type" character, or a cartoon character like "Jim Crow" from Dumbo. No one wants that. No one would even suggest it, not even Homer.
This entire kerfuffle is another manufactured controversy put forth by those who wish to divide us, and who count on others to play right into their hands.
Time is concerning. Maybe censorship 50 years from now is the big taboo of the day and they will judge the people that are crying to have everything banned or removed from history.
Randy Newman, for those of you who don't know is a songwriter artist who has written the soundtrack for several Disney films including the Toy Story movies. This also includes the upcoming Toy Story 4. But back in the 70's he wrote and performed a song called "Rednecks". This song is also a satire about racism, but he liberally uses the N word, makes some comments about Jews and implies ( quite correctly IMHO ) that Northerners are more racist than Southerners like himself.
I sure hope the snowflake brigade doesn't notice. I'm looking forward to Toy Story 4.
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
Nothing is wrong with it at all...in this case. And you will see in my reply I supported the Phillies and Yankees in their decisions. And I stand by that. but it is a slippery slope.
When you think more about it, people are a product of the era in which they were raised It's not a cop out or being lazy to say that and based on my initial reply in the thread I am not using it as an excuse for abhorrent behavior.
Throughout history people evolve (maybe not all, but most as a society), without getting political you can look at in general society's majority view on things like race, same sex marriage, LGBTQ (plus any missing initials), etc.
Is it really fair or appropriate to go back and say in 1970 (for example) person X was against same sex marriage, don't give them any work now that they're in their 50's and destroy their legacy? When in reality they probably support same sex marriage today. In Smith's case I see no issue with replacing the version of the song, but I probably wouldn't broadcast the reasons, I would just say we found a more suitable and more modern way to honor America.
All the founding fathers were guilty of some sort of racism or prejudice.
I don't think you can whitewash history by tearing down statues, firing people/replacing people, or changing the names of buildings or objects.
Sometimes those things can serve as a reminder of where you came from and how much progress has been made. Maybe that is a more positive message than completely erasing history - and with it any good that people might have done while being in many cases more progressive than their contemporaries.
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
The reason that things like the Statues in the deep south states, and the old slave auction block should be removed are because they were put in place to enforce Jim Crow laws after slavery. To strike fear in African American's that didn't obey them. To remind them of what could happen if they didn't obey.
The bigger risk is that Americans of all colors don't know their own history. A mile from the auction block is a Federal Cemetery with the bodies of black soldiers who fought and died for their own freedom. A few years ago, while lighting illuminaries at the cemetery, I told a black family who I was with working with on the project about that fact (even took them to the grave of a soldier who was buried there in literal sight of the plantation he escaped from). They had no idea of that history... the father and the son were stunned.
The slave block in 2019 is not intimidating anyone to "keep their place." It's a reminder of our history. Where we were and how far we've come.
The first people to erase history are always the extremists.
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
The bigger risk is that Americans of all colors don't know their own history. A mile from the auction block is a Federal Cemetery with the bodies of black soldiers who fought and died for their own freedom. A few years ago, while lighting illuminaries at the cemetery, I told a black family who I was with working with on the project about that fact (even took them to the grave of a soldier who was buried there in literal sight of the plantation he escaped from). They had no idea of that history... the father and the son were stunned.
The slave block in 2019 is not intimidating anyone to "keep their place." It's a reminder of our history. Where we were and how far we've come.
The first people to erase history are always the extremists.
The problem with this is we are white men. We don't get to decide what's offensive to African Americans.
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
Diversity Day is a classic, I doubt it gets made today.
I am also an American. And I get to have a say in what happens in this country. And I strongly believe that erasing our history is a detriment to our social fabric.
Opinions vary, but I'm not going to be intimidated from speaking out.
It's only 6 lines of lyrics. Foamy oceans and mountains and praries and lighted nights aren't racist, so it's simply the phrase 'God Bless America' that's offensive, right? Because the implication of God blessing America is that we don't ask that anyone else get blessed.
For those who don't get why, it's cause Irving Berlin left the ALSO out. If it was God 'ALSO' Bless America, we're cool. :)
Also's mean a LOT. (See BLM for reference)
Anyway, glad they pulled the song.
A good replacement would be Springsteen's version of 'This Land is Your Land', all 20 minutes of it. :D
The bigger risk is that Americans of all colors don't know their own history. A mile from the auction block is a Federal Cemetery with the bodies of black soldiers who fought and died for their own freedom. A few years ago, while lighting illuminaries at the cemetery, I told a black family who I was with working with on the project about that fact (even took them to the grave of a soldier who was buried there in literal sight of the plantation he escaped from). They had no idea of that history... the father and the son were stunned.
The slave block in 2019 is not intimidating anyone to "keep their place." It's a reminder of our history. Where we were and how far we've come.
The first people to erase history are always the extremists.
The problem with this is we are white men. We don't get to decide what's offensive to African Americans.
No one is telling someone else what to be offended by, it's never been more obvious than today, people have a right to be offended by anything.
Some people are suggesting what should be done about things that some people find offensive.
If your answer is to tear them all down that is what I was suggesting is short sighted and knee-jerk reactionary.
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
But you're using satire in which the butt of the joke IS racists as an analogy for things that are created BY racists. That's not really a fair comparison.
And many of the people who wanted to ban Mockingbird originally wanted to do so because of the sexual aspects of it, not the racial ones. And to be honest, it was only 21st on the list of challenged books - long behind Harry Potter!
But where does it end? Who makes the decisions? Will there ever be a time when enough history is erased that it will satisfy everyone?
Look at what is happening to comedy. It's literally dying.
And does it seem like purging this stuff is actually making things better?
It smells and feels like self-promoting, "make-me-feel-good-about-myself" mob justice.
BTW, when masterpieces like To Kill a Mockingbird and Huck Finn get attacked, I get nervous.
Kate Smith? Is there ANY understanding at all about how the world was? Go back more than a couple of decades and you can make a argument (even if it is a poor one) that EVERYTHING should be derided and destroyed. Should we tear EVERYTHING down and start over?
everything is hyper inflated to the extreme so you have some who are outraged and offended regardless of time period, context or implied intent....then, you have the other side that is outraged and offended shouting "PC bullshit" and "snowflake" at things that could be legitimately offensive to certain communities and POV's. I honestly believe it's the 24/7 assault of information and instant access to stories (true or false) that propel these narratives and "gin" everyone up...I wish there was some magic cure as I see society splitting at the seams more and more as reflected most obviously in the political arena but, the truth is, we are our own editors and bear the sole responsiblity to take a deep breath and do our due diligence....rarely are things a simple case of right or wrong and a true, honest assessment of any issue comes not from an initial reaction but thoughtful examination....I'm afraid we just don't have the patience for that anymore and it really saddens me in a fundamental way.
One, that rendition of God Bless America is atrocious. It's like someone played a record into a phone and the person on the other end recorded it.
More importantly, that 7th inning stretch tradition at EVERY SINGLE GAME is tiresome. Do it on Opening Day, do it on Memorial Day, July 4th, and September 11th, and move on with your life already.
1) It's pretty awesome this thread has everyone remaining civil and not attacking each other. Great job to all.
2) I'm with Eric on this one. No point in repeating what he's already said. But I never cared for her rendition so I'll save my outrage for another time.
One person's 'Political Correctness' is anothers 'Insult'... Â
...take the racist shit and put it in museums. Times change, and our culture is going through a major growth spurt. It isn't easy, particularly to those who get run over by it, but change is a constant.
RE: One person's 'Political Correctness' is anothers 'Insult'... Â
...take the racist shit and put it in museums. Times change, and our culture is going through a major growth spurt. It isn't easy, particularly to those who get run over by it, but change is a constant.
Ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus stated that change is the only constant and it's sort of deep when you think about it because it's sort of any oxymoron but it's true.
He also said about change that no man walks twice in the same river.
Both deep thoughts, but never more apparent than today's society.
RE: One person's 'Political Correctness' is anothers 'Insult'... Â
...take the racist shit and put it in museums. Times change, and our culture is going through a major growth spurt. It isn't easy, particularly to those who get run over by it, but change is a constant.
I think the problem with this idea is that you're estimating the sheer volume of things you'd have to throw in museums. Do you take all the Presidents off of money for owning slaves? I'm not advocating for or against this... but I'm saying you can't claim certain things are the inevitable evolution of culture and other things is over-sensitivity (not saying you are.. just in general).
RE: RE: One person's 'Political Correctness' is anothers 'Insult'... Â
...take the racist shit and put it in museums. Times change, and our culture is going through a major growth spurt. It isn't easy, particularly to those who get run over by it, but change is a constant.
I think the problem with this idea is that you're estimating the sheer volume of things you'd have to throw in museums. Do you take all the Presidents off of money for owning slaves? I'm not advocating for or against this... but I'm saying you can't claim certain things are the inevitable evolution of culture and other things is over-sensitivity (not saying you are.. just in general).
What changes over time of course IS perception. I thought the Stars and Bars were cool as hell when I was a kid - GREAT looking flag, Bo and Luke - Tom Petty had a MASSIVE one behind him during the Southern Accents tour.
The difference? For MOST of us, we weren't celebrating the treason that the Confederacy and it's slavery represented.
Social media has provided a platform for minority voices to be heard. The sensitivity of African Americans that was ALWAYS there in the 70's was finally heard. Women are finally heard. Non-Christians are finally heard.
It's hard cause it's all happening at once and sometimes, yeah it seems to go too far.
Just hang in there, eventually it'll calm down, but right now, we're still in the middle of it. A cultural civil war with many groups swinging at once.
"Just hang in there, eventually it'll calm down, but right now, we're still in the middle of it."
This is reminiscent of the excuses moderates were making about the Soviets in the 1920s or Nazis during the 1930s. I don't get the sense that they want it to "calm down."
But you're right about the social media aspect of it. It's enabled the mob.
The ultimate question here has to be, what is the purpose or end game? Is this making things better or worse? (I find it difficult to believe that many African Americans were sitting around thinking about the oppression demonstrated by Kate Smith). My guess is that this is designed by a small white minority who are trying to provoke. (Same thing with the local slave auction block).
RE: RE: RE: One person's 'Political Correctness' is anothers 'Insult'... Â
...take the racist shit and put it in museums. Times change, and our culture is going through a major growth spurt. It isn't easy, particularly to those who get run over by it, but change is a constant.
I think the problem with this idea is that you're estimating the sheer volume of things you'd have to throw in museums. Do you take all the Presidents off of money for owning slaves? I'm not advocating for or against this... but I'm saying you can't claim certain things are the inevitable evolution of culture and other things is over-sensitivity (not saying you are.. just in general).
What changes over time of course IS perception. I thought the Stars and Bars were cool as hell when I was a kid - GREAT looking flag, Bo and Luke - Tom Petty had a MASSIVE one behind him during the Southern Accents tour.
The difference? For MOST of us, we weren't celebrating the treason that the Confederacy and it's slavery represented.
Social media has provided a platform for minority voices to be heard. The sensitivity of African Americans that was ALWAYS there in the 70's was finally heard. Women are finally heard. Non-Christians are finally heard.
It's hard cause it's all happening at once and sometimes, yeah it seems to go too far.
Just hang in there, eventually it'll calm down, but right now, we're still in the middle of it. A cultural civil war with many groups swinging at once.
"Just hang in there, eventually it'll calm down, but right now, we're still in the middle of it."
This is reminiscent of the excuses moderates were making about the Soviets in the 1920s or Nazis during the 1930s. I don't get the sense that they want it to "calm down."
But you're right about the social media aspect of it. It's enabled the mob.
The ultimate question here has to be, what is the purpose or end game? Is this making things better or worse? (I find it difficult to believe that many African Americans were sitting around thinking about the oppression demonstrated by Kate Smith). My guess is that this is designed by a small white minority who are trying to provoke. (Same thing with the local slave auction block).
Worth noting is that findings of the Mueller probe was that Social Media has been infiltrated by Russia to create dissent in Western Nations. That is a factor.
But minority factions are able to get a foothold. Ask an older black person what their thoughts were on the Rebel flag. I was surprised by the negativity I got in responses when I asked (including your old neighbor, Frank Williams: "I never liked that goddamn thing!").
Springsteens 1985 Live Triple Album had a version of "This Land is Your Land" a 1980 version that featured a short diatribe on the origins of the song, how the Irving Berlin version triggered Woody Guthrie to write 'This Land'.
So that means some Americans were IMMEDIATELY put off by the song, that some 40 years later Springsteen was put off by it and now, another generation later, Social Media FINALLY gives it a voice and movement.
I can't think that eliminating tangible insults, slights, racism, sexism, etc... from our public discourse can be a negative thing.
I know it sometimes FEELS wrong, because it feels like we're losing who we are. But the way I look at it, who we are can ALWAYS be improved.
BTW, look up that Springsteen cut of "This Land" if you never had. He makes a boring nursery rhyme of a song into a really beautiful piece. Added a chord to the progression that turns it into something special. Love it.
My guess is that this is designed by a small white minority who are trying to provoke. (Same thing with the local slave auction block).
and x meadowlander wants to be right with this comment below, but in reality is probably not.
Quote:
Social media has provided a platform for minority voices to be heard. The sensitivity of African Americans that was ALWAYS there in the 70's was finally heard. Women are finally heard. Non-Christians are finally heard.
I think the actions you're seeing on social media and the resulting activism represent a very small minority of minorities and more often than not is just white kids/people.
I've been reading more about Smith too and it seems I have also become victim to the mob unfortunately, and it's my own fault.
It turns out Smith helped raise over $600M (in 1940's currency) to help support the troops fighting the nazis in WWII. She traveled often to entertain the troops, and amassed over half a million miles traveled (in the 40's) to selflessly support others.
And it turns out the songs she was vilified over, were sung often by people of both races as a sarcastic job at racism.
I take back my commentary from earlier in the thread, the mob won again. There has to be a positive way to utilize things like this from the past, and this was not it.
And was meant as a satirical look and took 20 years to get aired. Wiping away history is step one in the fascist playbook. The problem is way too many people are kowtowing to extreme minority opinions because they have been amplified and our corporate overlords don't want to miss any revenue streams. So instead we will have lots of risk free decision making that retards culture.
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
Oh god I loved All in the Family and Sanford and Son.
You couldn’t do those shows today.
But what about the Office, so recent, is controversial?
I know one thing about the Office that pisses some of these modern day youngsters off is when Michael tried to kiss Oscar to show he was cool with gay people and how he outed him in front of Dunder Mifflin. The "issue" was Michael did both (going for the kiss and outing) without Oscar's permission.
Speaking of which, the same with Disney cartoons. I think there's a video circulating somewhere on YouTube saying that Snow White is now "problematic" because the prince kissed her to awaken her from the coma and... again didn't have her consent.
Also some videos bitching about how Friends is now offensive by today's standards. Never thought that I'd see the day where that pathetic show was called offensive.
Quote:
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
Quote:
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
With just a little more help we could turn this thread into something political and get rid of it. If it isn't already there . . .
Quote:
In comment 14394353 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
Ha! Enjoy your virtue-signalling. As if anyone would release that song today, or make a movie with a "Mantan Moreland-type" character, or a cartoon character like "Jim Crow" from Dumbo. No one wants that. No one would even suggest it, not even Homer.
This entire kerfuffle is another manufactured controversy put forth by those who wish to divide us, and who count on others to play right into their hands.
agree completely +1
I sure hope the snowflake brigade doesn't notice. I'm looking forward to Toy Story 4.
Someone please call a doctor. My eyes rolled so far back into my head I feel rather faint.
Nothing is wrong with it at all...in this case. And you will see in my reply I supported the Phillies and Yankees in their decisions. And I stand by that. but it is a slippery slope.
When you think more about it, people are a product of the era in which they were raised It's not a cop out or being lazy to say that and based on my initial reply in the thread I am not using it as an excuse for abhorrent behavior.
Throughout history people evolve (maybe not all, but most as a society), without getting political you can look at in general society's majority view on things like race, same sex marriage, LGBTQ (plus any missing initials), etc.
Is it really fair or appropriate to go back and say in 1970 (for example) person X was against same sex marriage, don't give them any work now that they're in their 50's and destroy their legacy? When in reality they probably support same sex marriage today. In Smith's case I see no issue with replacing the version of the song, but I probably wouldn't broadcast the reasons, I would just say we found a more suitable and more modern way to honor America.
All the founding fathers were guilty of some sort of racism or prejudice.
I don't think you can whitewash history by tearing down statues, firing people/replacing people, or changing the names of buildings or objects.
Sometimes those things can serve as a reminder of where you came from and how much progress has been made. Maybe that is a more positive message than completely erasing history - and with it any good that people might have done while being in many cases more progressive than their contemporaries.
+1
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
The Peoples Front of Judia - ( New Window )
Quote:
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
The reason that things like the Statues in the deep south states, and the old slave auction block should be removed are because they were put in place to enforce Jim Crow laws after slavery. To strike fear in African American's that didn't obey them. To remind them of what could happen if they didn't obey.
It's the same reason Germany bands the Swastika.
It's 2019.
The bigger risk is that Americans of all colors don't know their own history. A mile from the auction block is a Federal Cemetery with the bodies of black soldiers who fought and died for their own freedom. A few years ago, while lighting illuminaries at the cemetery, I told a black family who I was with working with on the project about that fact (even took them to the grave of a soldier who was buried there in literal sight of the plantation he escaped from). They had no idea of that history... the father and the son were stunned.
The slave block in 2019 is not intimidating anyone to "keep their place." It's a reminder of our history. Where we were and how far we've come.
The first people to erase history are always the extremists.
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
Didn't "Friends" just get lambasted for being bigoted?
It's 2019.
The bigger risk is that Americans of all colors don't know their own history. A mile from the auction block is a Federal Cemetery with the bodies of black soldiers who fought and died for their own freedom. A few years ago, while lighting illuminaries at the cemetery, I told a black family who I was with working with on the project about that fact (even took them to the grave of a soldier who was buried there in literal sight of the plantation he escaped from). They had no idea of that history... the father and the son were stunned.
The slave block in 2019 is not intimidating anyone to "keep their place." It's a reminder of our history. Where we were and how far we've come.
The first people to erase history are always the extremists.
The problem with this is we are white men. We don't get to decide what's offensive to African Americans.
Quote:
what's the significance of The Office?
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
Diversity Day is a classic, I doubt it gets made today.
Opinions vary, but I'm not going to be intimidated from speaking out.
And they can't even see the irony. Again, same folks who want to ban To Kill a Mockingbird.
Stunning stupidity.
For those who don't get why, it's cause Irving Berlin left the ALSO out. If it was God 'ALSO' Bless America, we're cool. :)
Also's mean a LOT. (See BLM for reference)
Anyway, glad they pulled the song.
A good replacement would be Springsteen's version of 'This Land is Your Land', all 20 minutes of it. :D
Quote:
I hear you but that is BS.
It's 2019.
The bigger risk is that Americans of all colors don't know their own history. A mile from the auction block is a Federal Cemetery with the bodies of black soldiers who fought and died for their own freedom. A few years ago, while lighting illuminaries at the cemetery, I told a black family who I was with working with on the project about that fact (even took them to the grave of a soldier who was buried there in literal sight of the plantation he escaped from). They had no idea of that history... the father and the son were stunned.
The slave block in 2019 is not intimidating anyone to "keep their place." It's a reminder of our history. Where we were and how far we've come.
The first people to erase history are always the extremists.
The problem with this is we are white men. We don't get to decide what's offensive to African Americans.
No one is telling someone else what to be offended by, it's never been more obvious than today, people have a right to be offended by anything.
Some people are suggesting what should be done about things that some people find offensive.
If your answer is to tear them all down that is what I was suggesting is short sighted and knee-jerk reactionary.
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what's the significance of The Office?
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
But you're using satire in which the butt of the joke IS racists as an analogy for things that are created BY racists. That's not really a fair comparison.
And many of the people who wanted to ban Mockingbird originally wanted to do so because of the sexual aspects of it, not the racial ones. And to be honest, it was only 21st on the list of challenged books - long behind Harry Potter!
But where does it end? Who makes the decisions? Will there ever be a time when enough history is erased that it will satisfy everyone?
Look at what is happening to comedy. It's literally dying.
And does it seem like purging this stuff is actually making things better?
It smells and feels like self-promoting, "make-me-feel-good-about-myself" mob justice.
BTW, when masterpieces like To Kill a Mockingbird and Huck Finn get attacked, I get nervous.
Kate Smith? Is there ANY understanding at all about how the world was? Go back more than a couple of decades and you can make a argument (even if it is a poor one) that EVERYTHING should be derided and destroyed. Should we tear EVERYTHING down and start over?
More importantly, that 7th inning stretch tradition at EVERY SINGLE GAME is tiresome. Do it on Opening Day, do it on Memorial Day, July 4th, and September 11th, and move on with your life already.
2) I'm with Eric on this one. No point in repeating what he's already said. But I never cared for her rendition so I'll save my outrage for another time.
Ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus stated that change is the only constant and it's sort of deep when you think about it because it's sort of any oxymoron but it's true.
He also said about change that no man walks twice in the same river.
Both deep thoughts, but never more apparent than today's society.
I think the problem with this idea is that you're estimating the sheer volume of things you'd have to throw in museums. Do you take all the Presidents off of money for owning slaves? I'm not advocating for or against this... but I'm saying you can't claim certain things are the inevitable evolution of culture and other things is over-sensitivity (not saying you are.. just in general).
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...take the racist shit and put it in museums. Times change, and our culture is going through a major growth spurt. It isn't easy, particularly to those who get run over by it, but change is a constant.
I think the problem with this idea is that you're estimating the sheer volume of things you'd have to throw in museums. Do you take all the Presidents off of money for owning slaves? I'm not advocating for or against this... but I'm saying you can't claim certain things are the inevitable evolution of culture and other things is over-sensitivity (not saying you are.. just in general).
The difference? For MOST of us, we weren't celebrating the treason that the Confederacy and it's slavery represented.
Social media has provided a platform for minority voices to be heard. The sensitivity of African Americans that was ALWAYS there in the 70's was finally heard. Women are finally heard. Non-Christians are finally heard.
It's hard cause it's all happening at once and sometimes, yeah it seems to go too far.
Just hang in there, eventually it'll calm down, but right now, we're still in the middle of it. A cultural civil war with many groups swinging at once.
This is reminiscent of the excuses moderates were making about the Soviets in the 1920s or Nazis during the 1930s. I don't get the sense that they want it to "calm down."
But you're right about the social media aspect of it. It's enabled the mob.
The ultimate question here has to be, what is the purpose or end game? Is this making things better or worse? (I find it difficult to believe that many African Americans were sitting around thinking about the oppression demonstrated by Kate Smith). My guess is that this is designed by a small white minority who are trying to provoke. (Same thing with the local slave auction block).
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In comment 14397900 x meadowlander said:
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...take the racist shit and put it in museums. Times change, and our culture is going through a major growth spurt. It isn't easy, particularly to those who get run over by it, but change is a constant.
I think the problem with this idea is that you're estimating the sheer volume of things you'd have to throw in museums. Do you take all the Presidents off of money for owning slaves? I'm not advocating for or against this... but I'm saying you can't claim certain things are the inevitable evolution of culture and other things is over-sensitivity (not saying you are.. just in general).
What changes over time of course IS perception. I thought the Stars and Bars were cool as hell when I was a kid - GREAT looking flag, Bo and Luke - Tom Petty had a MASSIVE one behind him during the Southern Accents tour.
The difference? For MOST of us, we weren't celebrating the treason that the Confederacy and it's slavery represented.
Social media has provided a platform for minority voices to be heard. The sensitivity of African Americans that was ALWAYS there in the 70's was finally heard. Women are finally heard. Non-Christians are finally heard.
It's hard cause it's all happening at once and sometimes, yeah it seems to go too far.
Just hang in there, eventually it'll calm down, but right now, we're still in the middle of it. A cultural civil war with many groups swinging at once.
Solid post. "Like"
This is reminiscent of the excuses moderates were making about the Soviets in the 1920s or Nazis during the 1930s. I don't get the sense that they want it to "calm down."
But you're right about the social media aspect of it. It's enabled the mob.
The ultimate question here has to be, what is the purpose or end game? Is this making things better or worse? (I find it difficult to believe that many African Americans were sitting around thinking about the oppression demonstrated by Kate Smith). My guess is that this is designed by a small white minority who are trying to provoke. (Same thing with the local slave auction block).
But minority factions are able to get a foothold. Ask an older black person what their thoughts were on the Rebel flag. I was surprised by the negativity I got in responses when I asked (including your old neighbor, Frank Williams: "I never liked that goddamn thing!").
Springsteens 1985 Live Triple Album had a version of "This Land is Your Land" a 1980 version that featured a short diatribe on the origins of the song, how the Irving Berlin version triggered Woody Guthrie to write 'This Land'.
So that means some Americans were IMMEDIATELY put off by the song, that some 40 years later Springsteen was put off by it and now, another generation later, Social Media FINALLY gives it a voice and movement.
I can't think that eliminating tangible insults, slights, racism, sexism, etc... from our public discourse can be a negative thing.
I know it sometimes FEELS wrong, because it feels like we're losing who we are. But the way I look at it, who we are can ALWAYS be improved.
There is s significant difference between the Confederate Flag and Kate Smith.
And again, where does this end? You're fooling yourself if the outrage machine will ever stop. It's like a cult.
BTW, look up that Springsteen cut of "This Land" if you never had. He makes a boring nursery rhyme of a song into a really beautiful piece. Added a chord to the progression that turns it into something special. Love it.
There is s significant difference between the Confederate Flag and Kate Smith.
And again, where does this end? You're fooling yourself if the outrage machine will ever stop. It's like a cult.
Kate Smith - I think she's a special case, that it has more to do with the current culture of growing neo-Nationalism and the dangers that presents.
I take back the Russia comment. Don't want to blow up a good discussion.
and x meadowlander wants to be right with this comment below, but in reality is probably not.
I think the actions you're seeing on social media and the resulting activism represent a very small minority of minorities and more often than not is just white kids/people.
I've been reading more about Smith too and it seems I have also become victim to the mob unfortunately, and it's my own fault.
It turns out Smith helped raise over $600M (in 1940's currency) to help support the troops fighting the nazis in WWII. She traveled often to entertain the troops, and amassed over half a million miles traveled (in the 40's) to selflessly support others.
And it turns out the songs she was vilified over, were sung often by people of both races as a sarcastic job at racism.
I take back my commentary from earlier in the thread, the mob won again. There has to be a positive way to utilize things like this from the past, and this was not it.
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Isn't it racist to assert that minorities can't love the United States?
Of course.
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what's the significance of The Office?
Do you know how offensive The Office is those who have abandoned comedy? Even on the "Best Of" clips that permeate YouTube, the commentators cringe at various Michael Scott comments. Same people who would not have understood "All in the Family".
Oh god I loved All in the Family and Sanford and Son.
You couldn’t do those shows today.
But what about the Office, so recent, is controversial?
Speaking of which, the same with Disney cartoons. I think there's a video circulating somewhere on YouTube saying that Snow White is now "problematic" because the prince kissed her to awaken her from the coma and... again didn't have her consent.
Also some videos bitching about how Friends is now offensive by today's standards. Never thought that I'd see the day where that pathetic show was called offensive.
I think he drugged his date so he could play with her vintage toy collection.
Ha no way that'd make it on a mainstream TV channel these days..
Which outrage machine? The AM radio dial?