Recording those songs back in the 30's was not at all controversial. And frankly it doesn't prove she was at all racist. Maybe she just needed work and wasn't particularly proud of them
It's not fair to slander her as racist because of this. She doesn't have a lifelong track record of being racist.
of these types of things are overreactions, but when you read the lyrics of the song she recorded this is absolutely the right move.
I don't care what was acceptable for the era, those words are not acceptable for any era and it doesn't IMO fall under the "you don't understand, times were different then", that is flat out racist and vile.
Some actions are over the top IMO and I call those out when they're simply to protect some delicate sensibilities, but when something is this blatant, I say it too.
of these types of things are overreactions, but when you read the lyrics of the song she recorded this is absolutely the right move.
I don't care what was acceptable for the era, those words are not acceptable for any era and it doesn't IMO fall under the "you don't understand, times were different then", that is flat out racist and vile.
Some actions are over the top IMO and I call those out when they're simply to protect some delicate sensibilities, but when something is this blatant, I say it too.
Yeah, I think i'm leaning this way as well with this one.
I find it a little odd to stop using Kate's rendition of the song now Â
Her catalog of music has been out there for a very long time. Why did this suddenly come up?
Regardless, I read about it in the paper this morning, and the songs they are taking issue with are wildly inappropriate in this day and age. Just because they were acceptable back in the 30's, don't make them okay now. Labeling her a racist? Not so sure. Seems a bit unfair considering she isn't around to defend herself.
Won't discuss the reason but thrilled Kate Smith is gone Â
of these types of things are overreactions, but when you read the lyrics of the song she recorded this is absolutely the right move.
I don't care what was acceptable for the era, those words are not acceptable for any era and it doesn't IMO fall under the "you don't understand, times were different then", that is flat out racist and vile.
Some actions are over the top IMO and I call those out when they're simply to protect some delicate sensibilities, but when something is this blatant, I say it too.
PJ...from what I read about that song, it was a sarcastic take on racism.
Not even sure why we sing these songs at baseball games. But I have a real problem with why they're being removed. Reminds me of the cultural revolution in China. Purge the present of all elements from the past. I would challenge anyone of you guys to name any other Kate Smith song. She's singing God Bless America for Pete's sake. I mean, what the hell, leave it alone.
‘Also, who on earth is a Giants/Yankees/Flyers fan?’ Â
Ban a song by an artist who has been dead for 30 years because of a novelty song recorded 90 years ago that was also recorded by that Klansman Paul Robeson. All makes perfect sense.
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
This erasing the past and judging things not within the context of the Â
Time is concerning. Maybe censorship 50 years from now is the big taboo of the day and they will judge the people that are crying to have everything banned or removed from history.
The funniest part is that if the people that make th biggest fuss would have to take so much out of their lives if they were actual geniune with their concern. Like chocolate, diamonds, bananas or any number of 100 other things? Good luck finding a company without a sordid past there.
wrote "God Bless America". He also wrote Abraham which contains the same bad word that was in the bad Kate Smith song. Therefore "God Bless America" should be banned. And every song by Irving Berlin wrote should be banned. "White Christmas" needs to be banned. In fact, every movie with Bing Crosby should be banned because he wore blackface in "Holiday Inn". And while we're at it, every movie Ben Affleck has acted in should be banned since his ancestors were slave owners ...Oh wait that is actually not a bad idea.
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
With just a little more help we could turn this thread into something political and get rid of it. If it isn't already there . . .
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
Ha! Enjoy your virtue-signalling. As if anyone would release that song today, or make a movie with a "Mantan Moreland-type" character, or a cartoon character like "Jim Crow" from Dumbo. No one wants that. No one would even suggest it, not even Homer.
This entire kerfuffle is another manufactured controversy put forth by those who wish to divide us, and who count on others to play right into their hands.
Time is concerning. Maybe censorship 50 years from now is the big taboo of the day and they will judge the people that are crying to have everything banned or removed from history.
Randy Newman, for those of you who don't know is a songwriter artist who has written the soundtrack for several Disney films including the Toy Story movies. This also includes the upcoming Toy Story 4. But back in the 70's he wrote and performed a song called "Rednecks". This song is also a satire about racism, but he liberally uses the N word, makes some comments about Jews and implies ( quite correctly IMHO ) that Northerners are more racist than Southerners like himself.
I sure hope the snowflake brigade doesn't notice. I'm looking forward to Toy Story 4.
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
Nothing is wrong with it at all...in this case. And you will see in my reply I supported the Phillies and Yankees in their decisions. And I stand by that. but it is a slippery slope.
When you think more about it, people are a product of the era in which they were raised It's not a cop out or being lazy to say that and based on my initial reply in the thread I am not using it as an excuse for abhorrent behavior.
Throughout history people evolve (maybe not all, but most as a society), without getting political you can look at in general society's majority view on things like race, same sex marriage, LGBTQ (plus any missing initials), etc.
Is it really fair or appropriate to go back and say in 1970 (for example) person X was against same sex marriage, don't give them any work now that they're in their 50's and destroy their legacy? When in reality they probably support same sex marriage today. In Smith's case I see no issue with replacing the version of the song, but I probably wouldn't broadcast the reasons, I would just say we found a more suitable and more modern way to honor America.
All the founding fathers were guilty of some sort of racism or prejudice.
I don't think you can whitewash history by tearing down statues, firing people/replacing people, or changing the names of buildings or objects.
Sometimes those things can serve as a reminder of where you came from and how much progress has been made. Maybe that is a more positive message than completely erasing history - and with it any good that people might have done while being in many cases more progressive than their contemporaries.
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
The reason that things like the Statues in the deep south states, and the old slave auction block should be removed are because they were put in place to enforce Jim Crow laws after slavery. To strike fear in African American's that didn't obey them. To remind them of what could happen if they didn't obey.
The problem that I have with is they are only realizing those songs existed now?
It was awful. Sounded like they recorded it in a tin can.
It's not fair to slander her as racist because of this. She doesn't have a lifelong track record of being racist.
The problem that I have with is they are only realizing those songs existed now?
Yup that is weird. I guess a lot of music from the 30s is forgotten.
Yanks need to vet their musicians a little better. Somewhere old Ronan Tynan is still searching for a building in New York with no Jewish residents...
I don't care what was acceptable for the era, those words are not acceptable for any era and it doesn't IMO fall under the "you don't understand, times were different then", that is flat out racist and vile.
Some actions are over the top IMO and I call those out when they're simply to protect some delicate sensibilities, but when something is this blatant, I say it too.
I don't care what was acceptable for the era, those words are not acceptable for any era and it doesn't IMO fall under the "you don't understand, times were different then", that is flat out racist and vile.
Some actions are over the top IMO and I call those out when they're simply to protect some delicate sensibilities, but when something is this blatant, I say it too.
Yeah, I think i'm leaning this way as well with this one.
Regardless, I read about it in the paper this morning, and the songs they are taking issue with are wildly inappropriate in this day and age. Just because they were acceptable back in the 30's, don't make them okay now. Labeling her a racist? Not so sure. Seems a bit unfair considering she isn't around to defend herself.
I don't believe she wrote the insensitive songs.
Nevermind just read the article
Nah they got one of Nick Foles and Doug Pederson.
Don't be surprised if someone cuts their heads off or that goes missing one day, by the way.
Also, who on earth is a Giants/Yankees/Flyers fan?
I don't care what was acceptable for the era, those words are not acceptable for any era and it doesn't IMO fall under the "you don't understand, times were different then", that is flat out racist and vile.
Some actions are over the top IMO and I call those out when they're simply to protect some delicate sensibilities, but when something is this blatant, I say it too.
PJ...from what I read about that song, it was a sarcastic take on racism.
He rendition of the song should never have been played at the Stadium to begin with - eff the Flyers...
And which putz is that?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Quote:
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
Quote:
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
With just a little more help we could turn this thread into something political and get rid of it. If it isn't already there . . .
Quote:
In comment 14394353 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
So, by your argument, it could be released today and, people would just brush it off as a ‘novelty’?
Every movie studio made racist movies and cartoons in the '30's and 40's. Every one. Racist, sexist, by today's standards completely cringe-worthy. Should we shut down Disney and Warner Bros. now so that they may atone for their past sins? Of course not. It's enough that we put those old movies and cartoons on the shelf and leave them there, while we still enjoy what those studios produced that have stood the test of time, dramatically, as well as socially and politically. And we let them go on making entertainment for the masses.
Kate Smith recorded a horrible song by today's standards. But "God Bless America" is not that song, and it should not be in any way controversial to listen to it, or to hear her sing it.
Your response literally has nothing to do with what I responded to. Good job getting on that high horse though.
Ha! Enjoy your virtue-signalling. As if anyone would release that song today, or make a movie with a "Mantan Moreland-type" character, or a cartoon character like "Jim Crow" from Dumbo. No one wants that. No one would even suggest it, not even Homer.
This entire kerfuffle is another manufactured controversy put forth by those who wish to divide us, and who count on others to play right into their hands.
agree completely +1
I sure hope the snowflake brigade doesn't notice. I'm looking forward to Toy Story 4.
Someone please call a doctor. My eyes rolled so far back into my head I feel rather faint.
Nothing is wrong with it at all...in this case. And you will see in my reply I supported the Phillies and Yankees in their decisions. And I stand by that. but it is a slippery slope.
When you think more about it, people are a product of the era in which they were raised It's not a cop out or being lazy to say that and based on my initial reply in the thread I am not using it as an excuse for abhorrent behavior.
Throughout history people evolve (maybe not all, but most as a society), without getting political you can look at in general society's majority view on things like race, same sex marriage, LGBTQ (plus any missing initials), etc.
Is it really fair or appropriate to go back and say in 1970 (for example) person X was against same sex marriage, don't give them any work now that they're in their 50's and destroy their legacy? When in reality they probably support same sex marriage today. In Smith's case I see no issue with replacing the version of the song, but I probably wouldn't broadcast the reasons, I would just say we found a more suitable and more modern way to honor America.
All the founding fathers were guilty of some sort of racism or prejudice.
I don't think you can whitewash history by tearing down statues, firing people/replacing people, or changing the names of buildings or objects.
Sometimes those things can serve as a reminder of where you came from and how much progress has been made. Maybe that is a more positive message than completely erasing history - and with it any good that people might have done while being in many cases more progressive than their contemporaries.
+1
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
The Peoples Front of Judia - ( New Window )
Quote:
the downside of things like these old racist songs disappearing from history?
I understand your sentiment, but where does it end? Is "Gone With the Wind" next?
What about re-runs of "The Office"?
Locally, where I live, there is a movement to destroy an old slave auction block. Isn't it better to have reminders of this around? Seems awfully Maoist to me (ie., let's re-write history).
When you have people who want to the epitome of anti-racist literature like "To Kill a Mockingbird", you start to wonder about the mental competency of those winning these PR battles.
The reason that things like the Statues in the deep south states, and the old slave auction block should be removed are because they were put in place to enforce Jim Crow laws after slavery. To strike fear in African American's that didn't obey them. To remind them of what could happen if they didn't obey.
It's the same reason Germany bands the Swastika.