The problem is that he often could just not move the offense. So is that all the porous line and shaky receivers? Could be. But at the same time, he has never shown that he can consistently move an offense.
Look at it this way - Eli has won two super bowls, yet has looked atrocious the last few years. Why? His offensive line was garbage and without Beckham and Engram he did not have much for receivers.
You can be a SB winning QB and if you have no time to throw and can't run the ball because the line cannot block, you will not win.
I am not saying Jones is Eli. Just saying a good QB without time or weapons will not move the offense.
I am not a Jones guy, but I am also not closed minded, either.
1 Temple - they were down early and then dropped 50+ points in 3 quarters. This seemed to be the one game where his receivers caught the ball.
2 VT - I counted 3 dropped passes that would have either been long (40+ yards) TD's or at the very least gotten them inside the 5. His receivers and OL played horrible. He had a bad INT but after review he was hit and couldn't step into the pass
3 Clemson - totally out matched team. But Jones stood in there and took his beatings. Alot of bad drops. Considering the slow start to Clemson O... If the Duke receivers caught the easy one it's a lot closer game.
I saw a QB that has elite touch, vey accurate, and Eli VS SF toughness.
He also has pretty good mobility.
Does he have a Cannon? No, but he can make all the throws. Calling him "NOODLE ARM" means you never watched his tape.
He seemed to do a good job of reading the D and alot of his passed were 2nd 3rd reads.
He did force some throws that will get him in trouble in the NFL.
thinks Jones is like Peyton Manning than he’s crossed the Rubicon for scouting.
And he should never scout or evaluate again. It’s over.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
1 Temple - they were down early and then dropped 50+ points in 3 quarters. This seemed to be the one game where his receivers caught the ball.
2 VT - I counted 3 dropped passes that would have either been long (40+ yards) TD's or at the very least gotten them inside the 5. His receivers and OL played horrible. He had a bad INT but after review he was hit and couldn't step into the pass
3 Clemson - totally out matched team. But Jones stood in there and took his beatings. Alot of bad drops. Considering the slow start to Clemson O... If the Duke receivers caught the easy one it's a lot closer game.
I saw a QB that has elite touch, vey accurate, and Eli VS SF toughness.
He also has pretty good mobility.
Does he have a Cannon? No, but he can make all the throws. Calling him "NOODLE ARM" means you never watched his tape.
He seemed to do a good job of reading the D and alot of his passed were 2nd 3rd reads.
He did force some throws that will get him in trouble in the NFL.
I think he could be a very good NFL QB
Agreed. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s everything I liked about Eli in his prime - with mobility.
I think he’s going 6th overall if Williams/Allen are off the board. Bush, Lawrence, Burns Type players will be there at 17.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
Did you see his mock draft the other day at NFL.com?
It very strange because it seemed more weighted with Combine & workout references, and less about game performance...
obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
Spare me the "We should be deferential to the experts" mantra.
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
I don't comment on any prospect I haven't seen actually play. Unlike the 70%+ of BBI who don't watch any games and probably think the Big Ten still has ten teams...
on this thread. DG apparently by reports, loves the kids background and makeup. Listen to his pre draft presser. To paraphrase, he said that being the QB in NY is a load, it’s more than just physical gifts. That’s part of why they may have had Darnold as top QB last year. His personality fits (as he showed last year with the Jets). Jones fits that description best this year.
Lets be honest: anything can happen on draft day Â
For all we know, D. Jones goes #1; Murray #2; and, Haskins #3 with Bosa #4, Allen #5 and R. Williams to the Giants at #6 because it isn't the Giants who trade up for Jones, Murray or Haskins.
I would not be surprised by anything right now.
But I do believe we will draft BPA and NONE of us fans know who that is right now...but we will know Thursday night, Round 1 (it is Thursday night, right? LOL).
RE: RE: RE: I’m beginning to believe guys who know a thing or two Â
obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
Spare me the "We should be deferential to the experts" mantra.
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
I don't comment on any prospect I haven't seen actually play. Unlike the 70%+ of BBI who don't watch any games and probably think the Big Ten still has ten teams...
Quote:
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
That may be true, but they still get it right far more than you do
on this thread. DG apparently by reports, loves the kids background and makeup. Listen to his pre draft presser. To paraphrase, he said that being the QB in NY is a load, it’s more than just physical gifts. That’s part of why they may have had Darnold as top QB last year. His personality fits (as he showed last year with the Jets). Jones fits that description best this year.
This is a very underrated point. He checks out for demeanor. The bigger question is does his talent translate on the field. I hope they wait to 17 to pull the trigger (or slight trade up).
Give me the blue chip or near blue chip defender at 6.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’m beginning to believe guys who know a thing or two Â
obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
Spare me the "We should be deferential to the experts" mantra.
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
I don't comment on any prospect I haven't seen actually play. Unlike the 70%+ of BBI who don't watch any games and probably think the Big Ten still has ten teams...
Quote:
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
That may be true, but they still get it right far more than you do
on this thread. DG apparently by reports, loves the kids background and makeup. Listen to his pre draft presser. To paraphrase, he said that being the QB in NY is a load, it’s more than just physical gifts. That’s part of why they may have had Darnold as top QB last year. His personality fits (as he showed last year with the Jets). Jones fits that description best this year.
This is a very underrated point. He checks out for demeanor. The bigger question is does his talent translate on the field. I hope they wait to 17 to pull the trigger (or slight trade up).
Give me the blue chip or near blue chip defender at 6.
This describes Lock also. Lock is very laid back but good with the media. His personality has been compared to Eli.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’m beginning to believe guys who know a thing or two Â
Jones does have some mechanics and body control similarities to how Peyton looked like at QB.
Nowhere is Jones anything close to a prospect as Peyton was. Jones also has much more mobility.
This. If Jones were a Peyton level prospect he'd be undisputed #1.
I don't think this type of analysis sufficiently accounts for the effect of sustained national exposure of a major college program, nor the capability of a player to demonstrate his talents when surrounded by the cast Jones was at Duke.
The valid counter-claim could be then that Jones simply has not demonstrated via production at the college level what Peyton did - and that therefore he cannot by definition be the same level of prospect - and at that level of analysis that would be true. If he had achieved that level of production perhaps he would have been the undisputed number one.
However, because he went to Duke we will never know that, and the only level of prospect analysis available is one that takes into account this factor. As such, at this level of analysis, that is, excluding national exposure and support by teammates such as Peerless Price, a comparison to a former player based on traits is not out of line.
Ultimately, if Peyton Manning went to Duke I think it is fair to say that that Peyton Manning would not have been the same prospect, in the sense that you used the term, as the one that was the undisputed #1.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’m beginning to believe guys who know a thing or two Â
thinks Jones is like Peyton Manning than he’s crossed the Rubicon for scouting.
And he should never scout or evaluate again. It’s over.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
Gil Brandt is still very much involved with these draft prospects. He is at the combine, the senior bowl and college games. Listen to him on NFL radio. The amount of information he knows about these players at his age is astounding. He talks to scouts, college coaches and the players. He may not scout these players as in depth as he did years ago, but he is very well informed and I personally enjoy listening to him talk about these players more than anyone else.
on a player, you don't take him at #6.
If he's in your top tier (top ten grade), you consider him.
Don't take a second tier player (on your board) when top tier players are available just because he possibly won't be there at 17.
Same goes for trading up into the top ten with your second pick. He's got to be in the same grade range as those available at that pick. QB gets a little leeway, but not so much that you jump tier grade ranges.
... if one team grades Jones very high, there are others. I don't know Jones at all, I haven't seen him play. Like many of you I am alarmed by seeming limitations of his game.
But if the Giants have a huge grade on him. Or if they see Peyton Manning in his skill set. They must do what it takes to guarantee they get him. A QB of that caliber is worth three Nick Bosa's. Period. end of story. full stop.
In fact, if that is what Daniel Jones is, and I am not saying Brandt is right or that the Giants view him this way, but if that is what Jones is, Some team will jump the Giants and take him higher than 6.
RE: I’m beginning to believe guys who know a thing or two Â
about the position like Brandt, Brady Quinn, Polian and Kirwan over a couch coach like bw in dc et al..Seriously, who has the real cred?
WHen you say "you are beginning to believe" -- imo that's because "You want to believe."
For example you want to use Brandt and Quinn both had Rosen highly regarded. Brandt had Rosen overall at number 2 while Quinn said he loved Rosen but his biggest concern was his durability and if he could finish a season.
SO if you want to use these guys and say they know a thing or two why not be on the Rosen bandwagon in a later round draft choice vs Jones?
Did you know at Kirwin, Miller, Rob Rang and Dane Brugler all had Rosen getting picked 3rd OVERALL in their mocks last year?
SO if you want ot use what the guys you referecne are saying -- shouldn't we question WTF the Giants are doing if we are ot believe what the poster jtgiants is saying is true about GMEN not liking Rosen? It's okay if they don't like him-- but then if they go ahead and take Jones in rd 1 -- might it be okay to at least question their competency?
After all didn't our GM expect to win lats year when it was obvious to many of us who aren't scouts that they wouldn;t?
**So is it realistic all of them got Rosen wrong yet this year we're not to question they're opinion on Jones? If anyone is in this camp then it's that they believe what they want to believe. Anyways-- I do too.
... if one team grades Jones very high, there are others. I don't know Jones at all, I haven't seen him play. Like many of you I am alarmed by seeming limitations of his game.
But if the Giants have a huge grade on him. Or if they see Peyton Manning in his skill set. They must do what it takes to guarantee they get him. A QB of that caliber is worth three Nick Bosa's. Period. end of story. full stop.
In fact, if that is what Daniel Jones is, and I am not saying Brandt is right or that the Giants view him this way, but if that is what Jones is, Some team will jump the Giants and take him higher than 6.
Used to feel exactly the same way about Jones. He’s the only prospect I’ve ever looked more into and then done a complete 180 on. He has a lot to like about him, most of the criticism is half-assed rehashing of debunked “weaknesses” (his arm strength is not bad, at all). Size, toughness, mobility, there’s a lot to like.
He’s not perfect, I don’t see Peyton - I see Eli with mobility.
thinks Jones is like Peyton Manning than he’s crossed the Rubicon for scouting.
And he should never scout or evaluate again. It’s over.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
Gil Brandt is still very much involved with these draft prospects. He is at the combine, the senior bowl and college games. Listen to him on NFL radio. The amount of information he knows about these players at his age is astounding. He talks to scouts, college coaches and the players. He may not scout these players as in depth as he did years ago, but he is very well informed and I personally enjoy listening to him talk about these players more than anyone else.
As I said in another post. This year Brandt has Jones rated 17th. Last year he had Rosen ranked 2nd. If we are to want to hold on ot Brandt's evaluation along with others such as Quinn and Kirwin from last year--
why then can't we be using the "Brandt's" to wonder what the hell the Giants are doing about Rosen?
After all didn't our GM expect to win lats year when it was obvious to many of us who aren't scouts that they wouldn;t?
What exactly did you expect Gettleman, shurmur or anyone with the giants to say? That we suck and we aren't going to be competitive? I would be more alarmed if anyone within the giants ever said anything other than their expectation that we would win games.
Gettleman also made it clear last year that an emphasis needed to be made in rebuilding the talent on the team from the ground up as well as establishing a culture.
It’s not an exact science. What sucks is that the premium defenders will likely be gone at 6, and we will be forced to choose among defenders with question marks and Jones.
Every year QB’s rise, Jones appear to be on that track. How one can see Peyton in him is beyond me though.
After all didn't our GM expect to win lats year when it was obvious to many of us who aren't scouts that they wouldn;t?
What exactly did you expect Gettleman, shurmur or anyone with the giants to say? That we suck and we aren't going to be competitive? I would be more alarmed if anyone within the giants ever said anything other than their expectation that we would win games.
Gettleman also made it clear last year that an emphasis needed to be made in rebuilding the talent on the team from the ground up as well as establishing a culture.
Trueblue -- if you (I mean DG) felt you were going to lose-- why then did they spend so much on ONE OLDER LT and Omammeh vs TWO younger guys?
ANd then why trade for Ogeltree and now at least for this past year in FA we could have gotten a RT with his money? By the time the GMEn will be good in 202 or maybe 2021 Ogeltree will be closer to 30 than 25 and is getting big bucks.
And what about not trading Collins or signing OBJ.
IMO you are looking at his comment in a vacuum and not also looking at what he did outside of his comment. His actions showed "he expected to win now."
----------
The above isn't entirely about the thread (it is indirectly) and we can go on and I respect you--
Would like your opinion - just wondering pertaining to the thread also - if you are a believer in Brandt then what do you think of his last year assessment of Rosen vs Jones of this year? If you hold Brandt in high esteem as well as what the other poster referenced Quinn and Kirwin has then it would make sense to you that the GMEN should more-than-likely go after Rosen vs Jones, right?
--
and we know SY liked Rosen a lot -- why wouldn't we believe them and go after Rosen?
about the position like Brandt, Brady Quinn, Polian and Kirwan over a couch coach like bw in dc et al..Seriously, who has the real cred?
WHen you say "you are beginning to believe" -- imo that's because "You want to believe."
For example you want to use Brandt and Quinn both had Rosen highly regarded. Brandt had Rosen overall at number 2 while Quinn said he loved Rosen but his biggest concern was his durability and if he could finish a season.
SO if you want to use these guys and say they know a thing or two why not be on the Rosen bandwagon in a later round draft choice vs Jones?
Did you know at Kirwin, Miller, Rob Rang and Dane Brugler all had Rosen getting picked 3rd OVERALL in their mocks last year?
SO if you want ot use what the guys you referecne are saying -- shouldn't we question WTF the Giants are doing if we are ot believe what the poster jtgiants is saying is true about GMEN not liking Rosen? It's okay if they don't like him-- but then if they go ahead and take Jones in rd 1 -- might it be okay to at least question their competency?
After all didn't our GM expect to win lats year when it was obvious to many of us who aren't scouts that they wouldn;t?
**So is it realistic all of them got Rosen wrong yet this year we're not to question they're opinion on Jones? If anyone is in this camp then it's that they believe what they want to believe. Anyways-- I do too.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying..Until the last few days, Jones was not considered all that special. He still isn’t on here. The comments on Jones by the guys cited, simply opened my eyes, especially in view of the rather negative opinions on here. Personally, I wouldn’t know this Jones, from the Jones’ next door. I go by Shurmur, ultimately..Also, I wouldn’t mind Rosen here at all. Whether he could handle the media pressure, that’s possibly another story
is not Peyton or Eli. If anybody thought that, he would be the #1 pick in the draft, #2 at the worst as someone noted. And as someone else noted, Brandt was comparing him to Danny White just a few days ago.
I have no doubt that Jones will go before #17. It's a weak QB class, and QBs get overvalued and overdrafted every year because teams are desperate for a franchise QB. This year is no different. Teams are essentially talking themselves into Lock, Jones, Haskins, and maybe even Murray, part of which is minimizing their flaws and limitations.
Jones is a tough kid. He played behind a poor OL, and his receivers dropped a ton of passes. But although adequate, his arm isn't nearly as strong as Peyton's and Eli's when they were drafted. I question his ability to through an out from the far hash to the other side of the field against NFL CBs.
I don't want Jones at #6 or #17. I doubt the Giants trade up for him. They'd have to go at least to #9 IMO, and the cost for that would be #17, #37, and more. Gentleman just said that it will be hard for him to watch 58 good players come off the board between #37 and #95, and that he has more players rated in rounds one through four this year than in any other draft for which he was the GM.
on this site. Seriously, if you made a QB expert list in ranked order I might be near the bottom.
I don't watch college football anymore (loved it growing up, but Saturdays are just too hard now, so I see the big games occasionally on prime time, but that's about it.
So I started looking at youtube highlight reels of the QBs
Daniel Jones seems very athletic. I saw some plays where he had 40+ yard runs, some looked almost like, if not, designed runs.
I've been a Peyton Manning fan forever, but when was he ever that athletic?
the one question I have about Jones is one where I think Eli struggled. Can he throw a screen pass? I guess you make a QB highlight reel you don't bother including screen passes, but with the way this Giants team is forming, I think it's essential, a QB is able to sell a fake, even just look downfield, and then dish off the RB.
Tiki and Barkley (in one year) caught a ton of passes, but too often the plays were not "sold" as a screen and they were snuffed out.
With Barkley hopefully being a bell cow in the backfield for the foreseeable future, I think I'd over value a QB who excels with screens than one who doesn't.
Also, those guys all know more than me, but I see more Aaron Rodgers with Jones than Peyton, purely based on athleticism.
I don't understand what eyes Brandt has opened. He has Jones ranked as the 17th best prospect.
Many mocks and analysis have the Giants taking Jones with the 17th pick.
SO if we are to believe in Brandt-- and we know how high Brandt thought of Rosen-- why is there much of a discussion with Jones?
If you are going to question Rosen in some manner and thus not entirely agree with Brandt's high opinion, then it should also flip the other way for some of us to question Brandt's opinion of Jones this year. I mean if Brandt had Rosen as the number 2 rated overall prospect - the questioning of his makeup in New York imo would be minimal vs a number 17 prospect in Jones.
ALso throw in all the other names like Kirwin, Millier Rang and Quinn for example. And Cossell
and SY. etc.
**If we are to believe in Brandt -- then in some manner we have to question DG, don't we?
I don't understand what eyes Brandt has opened. He has Jones ranked as the 17th best prospect.
Many mocks and analysis have the Giants taking Jones with the 17th pick.
SO if we are to believe in Brandt-- and we know how high Brandt thought of Rosen-- why is there much of a discussion with Jones?
If you are going to question Rosen in some manner and thus not entirely agree with Brandt's high opinion, then it should also flip the other way for some of us to question Brandt's opinion of Jones this year. I mean if Brandt had Rosen as the number 2 rated overall prospect - the questioning of his makeup in New York imo would be minimal vs a number 17 prospect in Jones.
ALso throw in all the other names like Kirwin, Millier Rang and Quinn for example. And Cossell
and SY. etc.
**If we are to believe in Brandt -- then in some manner we have to question DG, don't we?
I’m going by the comments I heard on Sirius last night from Kirwan, Brady Quinn and Bill Polian. In sum, Kirwan saw Jones live several times and effectively said that despite horrific protection, Jones still made all the throws.He also felt that the 4.7 he ran at the combine was inaccurate as he believes Jones is closer to 4.5..
Quinn said he’s the most pro ready QB from this year’s draft and Polian really limes him, but feels his body weight of 220 might be the major downside he sees.
That’s what opened my eyes, whether one likes Jones or not
Trueblue -- if you (I mean DG) felt you were going to lose-- why then did they spend so much on ONE OLDER LT and Omammeh vs TWO younger guys?
ANd then why trade for Ogeltree and now at least for this past year in FA we could have gotten a RT with his money? By the time the GMEn will be good in 202 or maybe 2021 Ogeltree will be closer to 30 than 25 and is getting big bucks.
And what about not trading Collins or signing OBJ.
IMO you are looking at his comment in a vacuum and not also looking at what he did outside of his comment. His actions showed "he expected to win now."
----------
The above isn't entirely about the thread (it is indirectly) and we can go on and I respect you--
Would like your opinion - just wondering pertaining to the thread also - if you are a believer in Brandt then what do you think of his last year assessment of Rosen vs Jones of this year? If you hold Brandt in high esteem as well as what the other poster referenced Quinn and Kirwin has then it would make sense to you that the GMEN should more-than-likely go after Rosen vs Jones, right?
The offensive line needed to be upgraded at every position. That was gettlemans goal from the get go. Solder was signed to a 4 year contract at 30 years old. I am sure Gettleman does not expect to be in rebuild mode the next 4 years. The same with ogletree. They were not short term answers. I feel they were also looking 3 to 4 years down the road. This team lacked veteran leadership and those players filled 2 needs (position and leadership for the younger players)
Gettleman also turned over 70% of the roster. There is nothing about that much turnover that screams win now. As far as obj goes, I think shurmur more than Gettleman wanted to make it work, because of the talent. Obj's actions after signing the contract just made Gettleman sure he had to move him and got shurmur on board.
The one thing I see with Gettleman that wasn't the case with Reese is his ability to move on from a mistake and not just stick to a bad decision. He did it with flowers, omameh and Beckham. Would I have liked it if he made the right decision from the start? Absolutely, but the worst thing to do is compound a bad mistake by sticking with a bad decision (ie flowers)
As far as gil Brandt or any analyst goes. I don't take anything they say as gospel and I don't agree with some of their assessments. I liked mayock, but I know he was alwatts positive and that's ok. I find gil Brandt well informed and enjoy his insights into some players. It is an opinion, but me personally I don't think Rosen is a fit here. He has talent and could turn into a very good quarterback, but I don't see it. Brandt sees it differently, but I think he looks at more of the talent side than the personality (fit). Just my opinion.
As a side note, I really don't know about this years quarterback class as they all seem to be all over the map. There is a lot of varying opinions as was the case last year as well.
seems a little bit weird since a big part of Peyton's game is delivering the ball with zip, medium range, outside the hash. I don't know Jones but from what others have said that doesn't sound like his game. Maybe Brandt is referring to the intellectual part.
I don't understand what eyes Brandt has opened. He has Jones ranked as the 17th best prospect.
Many mocks and analysis have the Giants taking Jones with the 17th pick.
SO if we are to believe in Brandt-- and we know how high Brandt thought of Rosen-- why is there much of a discussion with Jones?
If you are going to question Rosen in some manner and thus not entirely agree with Brandt's high opinion, then it should also flip the other way for some of us to question Brandt's opinion of Jones this year. I mean if Brandt had Rosen as the number 2 rated overall prospect - the questioning of his makeup in New York imo would be minimal vs a number 17 prospect in Jones.
ALso throw in all the other names like Kirwin, Millier Rang and Quinn for example. And Cossell
and SY. etc.
**If we are to believe in Brandt -- then in some manner we have to question DG, don't we?
I’m going by the comments I heard on Sirius last night from Kirwan, Brady Quinn and Bill Polian. In sum, Kirwan saw Jones live several times and effectively said that despite horrific protection, Jones still made all the throws.He also felt that the 4.7 he ran at the combine was inaccurate as he believes Jones is closer to 4.5..
Quinn said he’s the most pro ready QB from this year’s draft and Polian really limes him, but feels his body weight of 220 might be the major downside he sees.
That’s what opened my eyes, whether one likes Jones or not
But again-- why the big deal on Jones when they loved Rosen even more?
Rosen can be had maybe for a 2nd rd pick. OS why are your yes being opened with a guy rated 17th and not a guy rated 2nd or 3rd from the year before?
You heard at one point about 3 weeks on NFLNetwok McShay and Kiper were giving their predictions and MCshay had Giants taking Haskins at 6. ANd when asked why at 6 he said he had Haskins on his top ten board and had to put him somewhere.
SO in this case isn't it possible they are building up Jones to create excitment? Otherwise if they can influence your eyes to open this year why can;t they also tell you that Rosen is a steal now? THEY LOVED ROSEN.
Why question Rosen in any manner vs Jones when the guys you are listening to loved Rosen more and we can get him with a cheaper pick in all probability? You are "questioning" Rosens makeup but they didnt question it as much as maybe you are? WHy be so picky with Rosen and so accepting in Jones whne the guys you listened ot have Rosen as the higher prospect?
No need to argue if Jones is a franchise QB or not, we simply don't know, we have an opinion like everyone else and believe in our opinion. I don't know if Jones would be good or not, I thought and won't change my opinion that Haskins will become a very good QB. I don't see how he won't, but what do I know. People here like to make fun of him calling him fat. Love to see what they look like, computer wimps I'm sure. The kid has a great release and is a pocket passer that can throw on the move for certain. He has a gun for an arm.
Jones is a player that has very good movement, can throw on the run and run with it, if I had a hope for him as a Giant, I would look at Hostetler, but a better version. If that is what he is, then we would be okay to take him.
going to the Giants per se. The discussion was about this year’s QBs entering the draft..They may all like Rosen the best, but he didn’t come up in conversation AND we don’t know for sure if the Cards are going to trade him, though it’s quite likely they will. Not sure why you keep harping on this Rosen thing
Trueblue -- if you (I mean DG) felt you were going to lose-- why then did they spend so much on ONE OLDER LT and Omammeh vs TWO younger guys?
ANd then why trade for Ogeltree and now at least for this past year in FA we could have gotten a RT with his money? By the time the GMEn will be good in 202 or maybe 2021 Ogeltree will be closer to 30 than 25 and is getting big bucks.
And what about not trading Collins or signing OBJ.
IMO you are looking at his comment in a vacuum and not also looking at what he did outside of his comment. His actions showed "he expected to win now."
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The above isn't entirely about the thread (it is indirectly) and we can go on and I respect you--
Would like your opinion - just wondering pertaining to the thread also - if you are a believer in Brandt then what do you think of his last year assessment of Rosen vs Jones of this year? If you hold Brandt in high esteem as well as what the other poster referenced Quinn and Kirwin has then it would make sense to you that the GMEN should more-than-likely go after Rosen vs Jones, right?
The offensive line needed to be upgraded at every position. That was gettlemans goal from the get go. Solder was signed to a 4 year contract at 30 years old. I am sure Gettleman does not expect to be in rebuild mode the next 4 years. The same with ogletree. They were not short term answers. I feel they were also looking 3 to 4 years down the road. This team lacked veteran leadership and those players filled 2 needs (position and leadership for the younger players)
First let's talk about the OLINE and a little about ILB. Yes DG doesn;t expect to be in rebuild mode for 4 years so when do we epxect ot be a contnder without having an ELi successor?
Isnt it probably 2021? Solider wasn't thta great in his prime so now at 33 when GMEn become a contender is it good to have him during our years of being a contender? ANd for how long will he be good? He'll be below average or washed up by then.
As for veteran and andleadership you need ot pay such an extreme value? WHy don;t you get the 1 year or 2 year leaders vs overpaying such an extreme for guys who will be past their prime by the time GMEn ready to compete? You say yourself it was obvious they were going to stink.
So there are no cheaper leaders than overpaying for several years with both these guys? For example we could've kept our picks if he truly believed we were rebuilding and signed Mason Foster. He got a 2 year deal worth a lot less than Ogeltree. How much worse is he? ANd doens't he provide experience too?
If Daniel Jones was anywhere close to Peyton Manning, he would at worst be a lock for the #2 pick in the draft right now
True, but let's also recognize that there's a lot of groupthink in the NFL. A lot of conventional wisdom.
Peyton Manning had a pedigree, was playing for a top-tier football program, and was expected to be a star from the day he walked onto campus Daniel Jones was a walk-on, no pedigree. Duke is a weak football program. Nobody had any expectations of this kid or really even knew who he was. He's clawed his way up the draft charts.
Peyton turned out to be as good or better than advertised. Jones? He's barely been advertised at all compared with Peyton.
And he should never scout or evaluate again. It’s over.
obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
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about the position like Brandt, Brady Quinn, Polian and Kirwan over a couch coach like bw in dc et al..Seriously, who has the real cred?
obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
Yeah, let me see...this is a tough one
Hall of Fame talent evaluator Gil Brandt vs. BBI armchair talent evaluators?
The problem is that he often could just not move the offense. So is that all the porous line and shaky receivers? Could be. But at the same time, he has never shown that he can consistently move an offense.
Look at it this way - Eli has won two super bowls, yet has looked atrocious the last few years. Why? His offensive line was garbage and without Beckham and Engram he did not have much for receivers.
You can be a SB winning QB and if you have no time to throw and can't run the ball because the line cannot block, you will not win.
I am not saying Jones is Eli. Just saying a good QB without time or weapons will not move the offense.
I am not a Jones guy, but I am also not closed minded, either.
He's probably more athletic then most think.
1 Temple - they were down early and then dropped 50+ points in 3 quarters. This seemed to be the one game where his receivers caught the ball.
2 VT - I counted 3 dropped passes that would have either been long (40+ yards) TD's or at the very least gotten them inside the 5. His receivers and OL played horrible. He had a bad INT but after review he was hit and couldn't step into the pass
3 Clemson - totally out matched team. But Jones stood in there and took his beatings. Alot of bad drops. Considering the slow start to Clemson O... If the Duke receivers caught the easy one it's a lot closer game.
I saw a QB that has elite touch, vey accurate, and Eli VS SF toughness.
He also has pretty good mobility.
Does he have a Cannon? No, but he can make all the throws. Calling him "NOODLE ARM" means you never watched his tape.
He seemed to do a good job of reading the D and alot of his passed were 2nd 3rd reads.
He did force some throws that will get him in trouble in the NFL.
I think he could be a very good NFL QB
OMG, can you imagine the meltdown on BBI if that happened.
Giants Trade UP for Jones - to #5 - ( New Window )
And he should never scout or evaluate again. It’s over.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
1 Temple - they were down early and then dropped 50+ points in 3 quarters. This seemed to be the one game where his receivers caught the ball.
2 VT - I counted 3 dropped passes that would have either been long (40+ yards) TD's or at the very least gotten them inside the 5. His receivers and OL played horrible. He had a bad INT but after review he was hit and couldn't step into the pass
3 Clemson - totally out matched team. But Jones stood in there and took his beatings. Alot of bad drops. Considering the slow start to Clemson O... If the Duke receivers caught the easy one it's a lot closer game.
I saw a QB that has elite touch, vey accurate, and Eli VS SF toughness.
He also has pretty good mobility.
Does he have a Cannon? No, but he can make all the throws. Calling him "NOODLE ARM" means you never watched his tape.
He seemed to do a good job of reading the D and alot of his passed were 2nd 3rd reads.
He did force some throws that will get him in trouble in the NFL.
I think he could be a very good NFL QB
Agreed. The more I watch him, the more I think he’s everything I liked about Eli in his prime - with mobility.
I think he’s going 6th overall if Williams/Allen are off the board. Bush, Lawrence, Burns Type players will be there at 17.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
Did you see his mock draft the other day at NFL.com?
It very strange because it seemed more weighted with Combine & workout references, and less about game performance...
Weird draft this is shaping to be - ( New Window )
Nowhere is Jones anything close to a prospect as Peyton was. Jones also has much more mobility.
This. If Jones were a Peyton level prospect he'd be undisputed #1.
My worry given the Giants like to 'keep things in the family.' They even signed up the kid who mowed the Mara's lawn -- sheesh.
obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
Spare me the "We should be deferential to the experts" mantra.
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
I don't comment on any prospect I haven't seen actually play. Unlike the 70%+ of BBI who don't watch any games and probably think the Big Ten still has ten teams...
I would not be surprised by anything right now.
But I do believe we will draft BPA and NONE of us fans know who that is right now...but we will know Thursday night, Round 1 (it is Thursday night, right? LOL).
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obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
Spare me the "We should be deferential to the experts" mantra.
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
I don't comment on any prospect I haven't seen actually play. Unlike the 70%+ of BBI who don't watch any games and probably think the Big Ten still has ten teams...
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
That may be true, but they still get it right far more than you do
OMG, can you imagine the meltdown on BBI if that happened. Giants Trade UP for Jones - to #5 - ( New Window )
I'm looking forward to it.
This is a very underrated point. He checks out for demeanor. The bigger question is does his talent translate on the field. I hope they wait to 17 to pull the trigger (or slight trade up).
Give me the blue chip or near blue chip defender at 6.
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In comment 14394762 PatersonPlank said:
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obviously bw. Plus lets not forget Josh in whatever City, he knows everything about Jones
Spare me the "We should be deferential to the experts" mantra.
These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
I don't comment on any prospect I haven't seen actually play. Unlike the 70%+ of BBI who don't watch any games and probably think the Big Ten still has ten teams...
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These experts get it more wrong than they get it right. Do you know why? Because scouting is still more art than science.
That may be true, but they still get it right far more than you do
But that’s Reese. This is DG, year 2
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on this thread. DG apparently by reports, loves the kids background and makeup. Listen to his pre draft presser. To paraphrase, he said that being the QB in NY is a load, it’s more than just physical gifts. That’s part of why they may have had Darnold as top QB last year. His personality fits (as he showed last year with the Jets). Jones fits that description best this year.
This is a very underrated point. He checks out for demeanor. The bigger question is does his talent translate on the field. I hope they wait to 17 to pull the trigger (or slight trade up).
Give me the blue chip or near blue chip defender at 6.
This describes Lock also. Lock is very laid back but good with the media. His personality has been compared to Eli.
But that’s Reese. This is DG, year 2
DG also said his mom could have picked Barkley.
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Jones does have some mechanics and body control similarities to how Peyton looked like at QB.
Nowhere is Jones anything close to a prospect as Peyton was. Jones also has much more mobility.
This. If Jones were a Peyton level prospect he'd be undisputed #1.
I don't think this type of analysis sufficiently accounts for the effect of sustained national exposure of a major college program, nor the capability of a player to demonstrate his talents when surrounded by the cast Jones was at Duke.
The valid counter-claim could be then that Jones simply has not demonstrated via production at the college level what Peyton did - and that therefore he cannot by definition be the same level of prospect - and at that level of analysis that would be true. If he had achieved that level of production perhaps he would have been the undisputed number one.
However, because he went to Duke we will never know that, and the only level of prospect analysis available is one that takes into account this factor. As such, at this level of analysis, that is, excluding national exposure and support by teammates such as Peerless Price, a comparison to a former player based on traits is not out of line.
Ultimately, if Peyton Manning went to Duke I think it is fair to say that that Peyton Manning would not have been the same prospect, in the sense that you used the term, as the one that was the undisputed #1.
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But that’s Reese. This is DG, year 2
DG also said his mom could have picked Barkley.
Forget Barkley. He had (it would appear) a pretty good draft overall, imv
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thinks Jones is like Peyton Manning than he’s crossed the Rubicon for scouting.
And he should never scout or evaluate again. It’s over.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
Gil Brandt is still very much involved with these draft prospects. He is at the combine, the senior bowl and college games. Listen to him on NFL radio. The amount of information he knows about these players at his age is astounding. He talks to scouts, college coaches and the players. He may not scout these players as in depth as he did years ago, but he is very well informed and I personally enjoy listening to him talk about these players more than anyone else.
If he's in your top tier (top ten grade), you consider him.
Don't take a second tier player (on your board) when top tier players are available just because he possibly won't be there at 17.
Same goes for trading up into the top ten with your second pick. He's got to be in the same grade range as those available at that pick. QB gets a little leeway, but not so much that you jump tier grade ranges.
But if the Giants have a huge grade on him. Or if they see Peyton Manning in his skill set. They must do what it takes to guarantee they get him. A QB of that caliber is worth three Nick Bosa's. Period. end of story. full stop.
In fact, if that is what Daniel Jones is, and I am not saying Brandt is right or that the Giants view him this way, but if that is what Jones is, Some team will jump the Giants and take him higher than 6.
WHen you say "you are beginning to believe" -- imo that's because "You want to believe."
For example you want to use Brandt and Quinn both had Rosen highly regarded. Brandt had Rosen overall at number 2 while Quinn said he loved Rosen but his biggest concern was his durability and if he could finish a season.
SO if you want to use these guys and say they know a thing or two why not be on the Rosen bandwagon in a later round draft choice vs Jones?
Did you know at Kirwin, Miller, Rob Rang and Dane Brugler all had Rosen getting picked 3rd OVERALL in their mocks last year?
SO if you want ot use what the guys you referecne are saying -- shouldn't we question WTF the Giants are doing if we are ot believe what the poster jtgiants is saying is true about GMEN not liking Rosen? It's okay if they don't like him-- but then if they go ahead and take Jones in rd 1 -- might it be okay to at least question their competency?
After all didn't our GM expect to win lats year when it was obvious to many of us who aren't scouts that they wouldn;t?
**So is it realistic all of them got Rosen wrong yet this year we're not to question they're opinion on Jones? If anyone is in this camp then it's that they believe what they want to believe. Anyways-- I do too.
But if the Giants have a huge grade on him. Or if they see Peyton Manning in his skill set. They must do what it takes to guarantee they get him. A QB of that caliber is worth three Nick Bosa's. Period. end of story. full stop.
In fact, if that is what Daniel Jones is, and I am not saying Brandt is right or that the Giants view him this way, but if that is what Jones is, Some team will jump the Giants and take him higher than 6.
Used to feel exactly the same way about Jones. He’s the only prospect I’ve ever looked more into and then done a complete 180 on. He has a lot to like about him, most of the criticism is half-assed rehashing of debunked “weaknesses” (his arm strength is not bad, at all). Size, toughness, mobility, there’s a lot to like.
He’s not perfect, I don’t see Peyton - I see Eli with mobility.
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In comment 14394761 bw in dc said:
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thinks Jones is like Peyton Manning than he’s crossed the Rubicon for scouting.
And he should never scout or evaluate again. It’s over.
Again? Trust me, he's already not "scouting" now. He's a paid talking head who doesn't put in 10% of the work that real scouts do every week. That's why his opinion varies from week to week with shifts in the weather.
Brandt is 86 years old. Spending time with the grandkids and great grandkids. He's not sweating away hours in a film room with coffee stains on the desk and a pile of notebooks.
Get real, scouting? He passed that dog walking job onto others long, long ago.
Gil Brandt is still very much involved with these draft prospects. He is at the combine, the senior bowl and college games. Listen to him on NFL radio. The amount of information he knows about these players at his age is astounding. He talks to scouts, college coaches and the players. He may not scout these players as in depth as he did years ago, but he is very well informed and I personally enjoy listening to him talk about these players more than anyone else.
As I said in another post. This year Brandt has Jones rated 17th. Last year he had Rosen ranked 2nd. If we are to want to hold on ot Brandt's evaluation along with others such as Quinn and Kirwin from last year--
why then can't we be using the "Brandt's" to wonder what the hell the Giants are doing about Rosen?
*********SY LOVED ROSEN I believe as his #1 QB?
What exactly did you expect Gettleman, shurmur or anyone with the giants to say? That we suck and we aren't going to be competitive? I would be more alarmed if anyone within the giants ever said anything other than their expectation that we would win games.
Gettleman also made it clear last year that an emphasis needed to be made in rebuilding the talent on the team from the ground up as well as establishing a culture.
Every year QB’s rise, Jones appear to be on that track. How one can see Peyton in him is beyond me though.
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After all didn't our GM expect to win lats year when it was obvious to many of us who aren't scouts that they wouldn;t?
What exactly did you expect Gettleman, shurmur or anyone with the giants to say? That we suck and we aren't going to be competitive? I would be more alarmed if anyone within the giants ever said anything other than their expectation that we would win games.
Gettleman also made it clear last year that an emphasis needed to be made in rebuilding the talent on the team from the ground up as well as establishing a culture.
Trueblue -- if you (I mean DG) felt you were going to lose-- why then did they spend so much on ONE OLDER LT and Omammeh vs TWO younger guys?
ANd then why trade for Ogeltree and now at least for this past year in FA we could have gotten a RT with his money? By the time the GMEn will be good in 202 or maybe 2021 Ogeltree will be closer to 30 than 25 and is getting big bucks.
And what about not trading Collins or signing OBJ.
IMO you are looking at his comment in a vacuum and not also looking at what he did outside of his comment. His actions showed "he expected to win now."
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The above isn't entirely about the thread (it is indirectly) and we can go on and I respect you--
Would like your opinion - just wondering pertaining to the thread also - if you are a believer in Brandt then what do you think of his last year assessment of Rosen vs Jones of this year? If you hold Brandt in high esteem as well as what the other poster referenced Quinn and Kirwin has then it would make sense to you that the GMEN should more-than-likely go after Rosen vs Jones, right?
--
and we know SY liked Rosen a lot -- why wouldn't we believe them and go after Rosen?
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about the position like Brandt, Brady Quinn, Polian and Kirwan over a couch coach like bw in dc et al..Seriously, who has the real cred?
WHen you say "you are beginning to believe" -- imo that's because "You want to believe."
For example you want to use Brandt and Quinn both had Rosen highly regarded. Brandt had Rosen overall at number 2 while Quinn said he loved Rosen but his biggest concern was his durability and if he could finish a season.
SO if you want to use these guys and say they know a thing or two why not be on the Rosen bandwagon in a later round draft choice vs Jones?
Did you know at Kirwin, Miller, Rob Rang and Dane Brugler all had Rosen getting picked 3rd OVERALL in their mocks last year?
SO if you want ot use what the guys you referecne are saying -- shouldn't we question WTF the Giants are doing if we are ot believe what the poster jtgiants is saying is true about GMEN not liking Rosen? It's okay if they don't like him-- but then if they go ahead and take Jones in rd 1 -- might it be okay to at least question their competency?
After all didn't our GM expect to win lats year when it was obvious to many of us who aren't scouts that they wouldn;t?
**So is it realistic all of them got Rosen wrong yet this year we're not to question they're opinion on Jones? If anyone is in this camp then it's that they believe what they want to believe. Anyways-- I do too.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying..Until the last few days, Jones was not considered all that special. He still isn’t on here. The comments on Jones by the guys cited, simply opened my eyes, especially in view of the rather negative opinions on here. Personally, I wouldn’t know this Jones, from the Jones’ next door. I go by Shurmur, ultimately..Also, I wouldn’t mind Rosen here at all. Whether he could handle the media pressure, that’s possibly another story
I have no doubt that Jones will go before #17. It's a weak QB class, and QBs get overvalued and overdrafted every year because teams are desperate for a franchise QB. This year is no different. Teams are essentially talking themselves into Lock, Jones, Haskins, and maybe even Murray, part of which is minimizing their flaws and limitations.
Jones is a tough kid. He played behind a poor OL, and his receivers dropped a ton of passes. But although adequate, his arm isn't nearly as strong as Peyton's and Eli's when they were drafted. I question his ability to through an out from the far hash to the other side of the field against NFL CBs.
I don't want Jones at #6 or #17. I doubt the Giants trade up for him. They'd have to go at least to #9 IMO, and the cost for that would be #17, #37, and more. Gentleman just said that it will be hard for him to watch 58 good players come off the board between #37 and #95, and that he has more players rated in rounds one through four this year than in any other draft for which he was the GM.
I don't watch college football anymore (loved it growing up, but Saturdays are just too hard now, so I see the big games occasionally on prime time, but that's about it.
So I started looking at youtube highlight reels of the QBs
Daniel Jones seems very athletic. I saw some plays where he had 40+ yard runs, some looked almost like, if not, designed runs.
I've been a Peyton Manning fan forever, but when was he ever that athletic?
the one question I have about Jones is one where I think Eli struggled. Can he throw a screen pass? I guess you make a QB highlight reel you don't bother including screen passes, but with the way this Giants team is forming, I think it's essential, a QB is able to sell a fake, even just look downfield, and then dish off the RB.
Tiki and Barkley (in one year) caught a ton of passes, but too often the plays were not "sold" as a screen and they were snuffed out.
With Barkley hopefully being a bell cow in the backfield for the foreseeable future, I think I'd over value a QB who excels with screens than one who doesn't.
Also, those guys all know more than me, but I see more Aaron Rodgers with Jones than Peyton, purely based on athleticism.
Many mocks and analysis have the Giants taking Jones with the 17th pick.
SO if we are to believe in Brandt-- and we know how high Brandt thought of Rosen-- why is there much of a discussion with Jones?
If you are going to question Rosen in some manner and thus not entirely agree with Brandt's high opinion, then it should also flip the other way for some of us to question Brandt's opinion of Jones this year. I mean if Brandt had Rosen as the number 2 rated overall prospect - the questioning of his makeup in New York imo would be minimal vs a number 17 prospect in Jones.
ALso throw in all the other names like Kirwin, Millier Rang and Quinn for example. And Cossell
and SY. etc.
**If we are to believe in Brandt -- then in some manner we have to question DG, don't we?
Many mocks and analysis have the Giants taking Jones with the 17th pick.
SO if we are to believe in Brandt-- and we know how high Brandt thought of Rosen-- why is there much of a discussion with Jones?
If you are going to question Rosen in some manner and thus not entirely agree with Brandt's high opinion, then it should also flip the other way for some of us to question Brandt's opinion of Jones this year. I mean if Brandt had Rosen as the number 2 rated overall prospect - the questioning of his makeup in New York imo would be minimal vs a number 17 prospect in Jones.
ALso throw in all the other names like Kirwin, Millier Rang and Quinn for example. And Cossell
and SY. etc.
**If we are to believe in Brandt -- then in some manner we have to question DG, don't we?
I’m going by the comments I heard on Sirius last night from Kirwan, Brady Quinn and Bill Polian. In sum, Kirwan saw Jones live several times and effectively said that despite horrific protection, Jones still made all the throws.He also felt that the 4.7 he ran at the combine was inaccurate as he believes Jones is closer to 4.5..
Quinn said he’s the most pro ready QB from this year’s draft and Polian really limes him, but feels his body weight of 220 might be the major downside he sees.
That’s what opened my eyes, whether one likes Jones or not
ANd then why trade for Ogeltree and now at least for this past year in FA we could have gotten a RT with his money? By the time the GMEn will be good in 202 or maybe 2021 Ogeltree will be closer to 30 than 25 and is getting big bucks.
And what about not trading Collins or signing OBJ.
IMO you are looking at his comment in a vacuum and not also looking at what he did outside of his comment. His actions showed "he expected to win now."
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The above isn't entirely about the thread (it is indirectly) and we can go on and I respect you--
Would like your opinion - just wondering pertaining to the thread also - if you are a believer in Brandt then what do you think of his last year assessment of Rosen vs Jones of this year? If you hold Brandt in high esteem as well as what the other poster referenced Quinn and Kirwin has then it would make sense to you that the GMEN should more-than-likely go after Rosen vs Jones, right?
The offensive line needed to be upgraded at every position. That was gettlemans goal from the get go. Solder was signed to a 4 year contract at 30 years old. I am sure Gettleman does not expect to be in rebuild mode the next 4 years. The same with ogletree. They were not short term answers. I feel they were also looking 3 to 4 years down the road. This team lacked veteran leadership and those players filled 2 needs (position and leadership for the younger players)
Gettleman also turned over 70% of the roster. There is nothing about that much turnover that screams win now. As far as obj goes, I think shurmur more than Gettleman wanted to make it work, because of the talent. Obj's actions after signing the contract just made Gettleman sure he had to move him and got shurmur on board.
The one thing I see with Gettleman that wasn't the case with Reese is his ability to move on from a mistake and not just stick to a bad decision. He did it with flowers, omameh and Beckham. Would I have liked it if he made the right decision from the start? Absolutely, but the worst thing to do is compound a bad mistake by sticking with a bad decision (ie flowers)
As far as gil Brandt or any analyst goes. I don't take anything they say as gospel and I don't agree with some of their assessments. I liked mayock, but I know he was alwatts positive and that's ok. I find gil Brandt well informed and enjoy his insights into some players. It is an opinion, but me personally I don't think Rosen is a fit here. He has talent and could turn into a very good quarterback, but I don't see it. Brandt sees it differently, but I think he looks at more of the talent side than the personality (fit). Just my opinion.
As a side note, I really don't know about this years quarterback class as they all seem to be all over the map. There is a lot of varying opinions as was the case last year as well.
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I don't understand what eyes Brandt has opened. He has Jones ranked as the 17th best prospect.
Many mocks and analysis have the Giants taking Jones with the 17th pick.
SO if we are to believe in Brandt-- and we know how high Brandt thought of Rosen-- why is there much of a discussion with Jones?
If you are going to question Rosen in some manner and thus not entirely agree with Brandt's high opinion, then it should also flip the other way for some of us to question Brandt's opinion of Jones this year. I mean if Brandt had Rosen as the number 2 rated overall prospect - the questioning of his makeup in New York imo would be minimal vs a number 17 prospect in Jones.
ALso throw in all the other names like Kirwin, Millier Rang and Quinn for example. And Cossell
and SY. etc.
**If we are to believe in Brandt -- then in some manner we have to question DG, don't we?
I’m going by the comments I heard on Sirius last night from Kirwan, Brady Quinn and Bill Polian. In sum, Kirwan saw Jones live several times and effectively said that despite horrific protection, Jones still made all the throws.He also felt that the 4.7 he ran at the combine was inaccurate as he believes Jones is closer to 4.5..
Quinn said he’s the most pro ready QB from this year’s draft and Polian really limes him, but feels his body weight of 220 might be the major downside he sees.
That’s what opened my eyes, whether one likes Jones or not
But again-- why the big deal on Jones when they loved Rosen even more?
Rosen can be had maybe for a 2nd rd pick. OS why are your yes being opened with a guy rated 17th and not a guy rated 2nd or 3rd from the year before?
You heard at one point about 3 weeks on NFLNetwok McShay and Kiper were giving their predictions and MCshay had Giants taking Haskins at 6. ANd when asked why at 6 he said he had Haskins on his top ten board and had to put him somewhere.
SO in this case isn't it possible they are building up Jones to create excitment? Otherwise if they can influence your eyes to open this year why can;t they also tell you that Rosen is a steal now? THEY LOVED ROSEN.
Why question Rosen in any manner vs Jones when the guys you are listening to loved Rosen more and we can get him with a cheaper pick in all probability? You are "questioning" Rosens makeup but they didnt question it as much as maybe you are? WHy be so picky with Rosen and so accepting in Jones whne the guys you listened ot have Rosen as the higher prospect?
Jones is a player that has very good movement, can throw on the run and run with it, if I had a hope for him as a Giant, I would look at Hostetler, but a better version. If that is what he is, then we would be okay to take him.
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Trueblue -- if you (I mean DG) felt you were going to lose-- why then did they spend so much on ONE OLDER LT and Omammeh vs TWO younger guys?
ANd then why trade for Ogeltree and now at least for this past year in FA we could have gotten a RT with his money? By the time the GMEn will be good in 202 or maybe 2021 Ogeltree will be closer to 30 than 25 and is getting big bucks.
And what about not trading Collins or signing OBJ.
IMO you are looking at his comment in a vacuum and not also looking at what he did outside of his comment. His actions showed "he expected to win now."
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The above isn't entirely about the thread (it is indirectly) and we can go on and I respect you--
Would like your opinion - just wondering pertaining to the thread also - if you are a believer in Brandt then what do you think of his last year assessment of Rosen vs Jones of this year? If you hold Brandt in high esteem as well as what the other poster referenced Quinn and Kirwin has then it would make sense to you that the GMEN should more-than-likely go after Rosen vs Jones, right?
The offensive line needed to be upgraded at every position. That was gettlemans goal from the get go. Solder was signed to a 4 year contract at 30 years old. I am sure Gettleman does not expect to be in rebuild mode the next 4 years. The same with ogletree. They were not short term answers. I feel they were also looking 3 to 4 years down the road. This team lacked veteran leadership and those players filled 2 needs (position and leadership for the younger players)
First let's talk about the OLINE and a little about ILB. Yes DG doesn;t expect to be in rebuild mode for 4 years so when do we epxect ot be a contnder without having an ELi successor?
Isnt it probably 2021? Solider wasn't thta great in his prime so now at 33 when GMEn become a contender is it good to have him during our years of being a contender? ANd for how long will he be good? He'll be below average or washed up by then.
As for veteran and andleadership you need ot pay such an extreme value? WHy don;t you get the 1 year or 2 year leaders vs overpaying such an extreme for guys who will be past their prime by the time GMEn ready to compete? You say yourself it was obvious they were going to stink.
So there are no cheaper leaders than overpaying for several years with both these guys? For example we could've kept our picks if he truly believed we were rebuilding and signed Mason Foster. He got a 2 year deal worth a lot less than Ogeltree. How much worse is he? ANd doens't he provide experience too?
Peyton Manning had a pedigree, was playing for a top-tier football program, and was expected to be a star from the day he walked onto campus Daniel Jones was a walk-on, no pedigree. Duke is a weak football program. Nobody had any expectations of this kid or really even knew who he was. He's clawed his way up the draft charts.
Peyton turned out to be as good or better than advertised. Jones? He's barely been advertised at all compared with Peyton.