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Pete Prisco - No to kyler Murray

BigBlueJ : 4/21/2019 2:52 pm
Interesting...

https://youtu.be/2RX4ysXO2HQ
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Maybe, maybe not  
JerseyCityJoe : 4/21/2019 4:36 pm : link
Quote:
He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.


The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.
If Zona passes on Murray...  
bw in dc : 4/21/2019 4:42 pm : link
there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.
RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/21/2019 4:44 pm : link
In comment 14396626 bw in dc said:
Quote:
there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.


There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.
One could only hope  
oreojenkins : 4/21/2019 4:52 pm : link
The Cardinals passing on Kyler and him ending up with the Giants is a dream scenario. Given what Shurmur says he wants in a QB, this is a perfect fit. I'd snap give up 6 and 17 for him. The top 3 most accurate QBs in the PFF database over the last 5 years in terms of ball placement (not necessarily completion %) are Baker, Mahomes, and Kyler. Accuracy, arm strength, and then the mobility is icing on the cake. But some people are going to die on the hill rallying against him, just like they did with Baker last year, rather than keeping an open mind and using some critical thinking skills.
The Cards are 1000% inscentivized to downplay Murray...  
M.S. : 4/21/2019 4:54 pm : link

...how else will they get any value for Rosen?
RE: RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
bw in dc : 4/21/2019 4:54 pm : link
In comment 14396630 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14396626 bw in dc said:


Quote:


there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.



There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.


Outside of AZ, and maybe Oakland (b/s I can't get a feel for Gruden these days), I don't think Murray is viewed as great first round value.

RE: RE: RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/21/2019 5:02 pm : link
In comment 14396646 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14396630 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14396626 bw in dc said:


Quote:


there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.



There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.



Outside of AZ, and maybe Oakland (b/s I can't get a feel for Gruden these days), I don't think Murray is viewed as great first round value.


Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
RE: Maybe, maybe not  
81_Great_Dane : 4/21/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14396613 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:


Quote:


He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.



The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.
I don't think durability is the biggest issue with Murray's size. I'd be more concerned about his ability to see downfield and find passing lanes among so many tall linemen and pass rushers.
RE: RE: Maybe, maybe not  
Big Blue '56 : 4/21/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14396661 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 14396613 JerseyCityJoe said:


Quote:




Quote:


He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.



The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.

I don't think durability is the biggest issue with Murray's size. I'd be more concerned about his ability to see downfield and find passing lanes among so many tall linemen and pass rushers.


Charlie Weis, fwiw, was effusive in his praise of Murray
RE: The Cards are 1000% inscentivized to downplay Murray...  
FranchiseQB : 4/21/2019 5:20 pm : link
In comment 14396644 M.S. said:
Quote:

...how else will they get any value for Rosen?


The market determines Rosen's value, not how much desire the Cards show for Murray. If they're dealing Rosen it already obvious that they are drafting Murray. What determines Rosen's value primarily is how many potential trade partners they have and how much the desire Rosen.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
FranchiseQB : 4/21/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14396657 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14396646 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14396630 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14396626 bw in dc said:


Quote:


there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.



There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.



Outside of AZ, and maybe Oakland (b/s I can't get a feel for Gruden these days), I don't think Murray is viewed as great first round value.




Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?


I don't know that the Skins are all in on Murray. They did not show interest in obtaining the Zona #1. The may prefer Haskins, Jones and Lock.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
bw in dc : 4/21/2019 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14396657 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:


Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?


No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.

Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/21/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14396681 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14396657 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:




Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?



No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.

Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.


Except all that their owner Steve Ross cares about is selling tickets and marketing
I get it with Ross...  
bw in dc : 4/21/2019 5:32 pm : link
But he's now got two New England disciples to deal with - Flores and GM Grier.
Besides, if he drops as you opine,  
Big Blue '56 : 4/21/2019 5:36 pm : link
We’ll nab him at 17..:)
Arizona better just take him  
Motley Two : 4/21/2019 5:53 pm : link
or they've got heaps of work to do repairing their relationship with Rosen.

Rosen & his agent are smart enough to know that the Cardinals have hurt his value with how they've handled this so far.

They've got time before they have to worry about resigning Rosen(and he has his own work to do to be a guy you want to resign), but they have work to do.
If he’s there at 6 DG takes him.  
RDJR : 4/21/2019 6:08 pm : link
He loves the big pick. You can just tell in his pressers that he can’t wait to make a splash. It’s his personality and we need a QB desperately. He would use the same argument he used for SB last year. Best player in the draft.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/21/2019 6:16 pm : link
If Murray gets to #6 and the Giants select Jones, I predict the biggest meltdown in BBI history.
I'd honestly rather have Rosen  
PatersonPlank : 4/21/2019 6:28 pm : link
.
RE: ...  
Giants38 : 4/21/2019 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14396736 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If Murray gets to #6 and the Giants select Jones, I predict the biggest meltdown in BBI history.


And rightfully so. Jones is not good.
RE: ...  
kelsto811 : 4/21/2019 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14396736 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If Murray gets to #6 and the Giants select Jones, I predict the biggest meltdown in BBI history.


I'd be laughing the whole time as to not cry
RE: ...  
SGMen : 4/21/2019 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14396736 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If Murray gets to #6 and the Giants select Jones, I predict the biggest meltdown in BBI history.
I'd rather pray the Giants TRADED DOWN and got a lot to build upon for the FUTURE than take JONES; unless, he is like their #1 rated guy regardless of position.

I like draft boards and trust DG. I have too as a fan.

But yeah, if we take Jones after Murray the Forum will be nuts as will the media...for years perhaps.

But here is the thing and there really is no way around it: if DG traded down because the QB that is available isn't rated high enough on his draft board; and the team we trade with takes him; and he develops into Mahomes #2, the Giants are not only the next Browns but possibly cursed for our lifetimes Eric. We have to be smart here and the safe bet is we take the BPA and don't trade. If its Jones, well, so be it. If its Haskins, well, so be it. And if its Murray, well so be it.

He we take: may he just ROCK on the FIELD. That is all I ask. Amen.
I can't see him doing in the pros for more  
pmmanning : 4/21/2019 6:42 pm : link
Than a season or 2 I watch tons of college football (doesn't mean I know shit) but not this kid he's gifted.
Again I don't know shit I thought Rosen was the best CFL QB last year
Not buying it...  
GFAN52 : 4/21/2019 6:49 pm : link
The Cardinals have sold out EVERY home game in Arizona since their stadium was built for them. More than 100 games in a row. Whether the select Murray or not has nothing to do with selling more tickets.
RE: ...  
AcidTest : 4/21/2019 6:49 pm : link
In comment 14396736 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If Murray gets to #6 and the Giants select Jones, I predict the biggest meltdown in BBI history.


Yup.
RE: Arizona better just take him  
JohnB : 4/21/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14396716 Motley Two said:
Quote:
or they've got heaps of work to do repairing their relationship with Rosen.


+1

The Cards have turned away from Rosen so badly, I'd be shocked if they keep him.
People need to remember  
DonQuixote : 4/21/2019 8:08 pm : link
There was a time when Murray was too small and very few here regarded him as an NFL talent.

Then he measures an inch taller than people thought at the combine, then AZ wants him, maybe, and now he is the undisputed top QB. Except he is not...

I haven't heard anything on Murray  
JonC : 4/21/2019 8:09 pm : link
.
RE: If  
FStubbs : 4/21/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14396505 AcidTest said:
Quote:
they're not going to take them, then they'll probably trade the pick. Is Williams or Bosa really worth more than the haul of draft picks they could get by trading down?


Are there teams other than Arizona excited about Murray?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
FStubbs : 4/21/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14396681 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14396657 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:




Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?



No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.

Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.


Miami is tanking for Tua.
RE: I haven't heard anything on Murray  
GothamGiants : 4/21/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14396814 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Not surprised, way too 21st century outside the box thinking for this franchise.
RE: I haven't heard anything on Murray  
GothamGiants : 4/21/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14396814 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Anything on Sloter or Tyree Jackson?
Sloter was looked at last year  
JonC : 4/21/2019 8:25 pm : link
nothing recent on either.
I'd  
AcidTest : 4/21/2019 8:51 pm : link
be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.
RE: I'd  
GothamGiants : 4/21/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14396865 AcidTest said:
Quote:
be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.


They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...
RE: RE: I'd  
AcidTest : 4/21/2019 9:18 pm : link
In comment 14396870 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14396865 AcidTest said:


Quote:


be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.



They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...


I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.
RE: One could only hope  
djm : 4/21/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14396641 oreojenkins said:
Quote:
The Cardinals passing on Kyler and him ending up with the Giants is a dream scenario. Given what Shurmur says he wants in a QB, this is a perfect fit. I'd snap give up 6 and 17 for him. The top 3 most accurate QBs in the PFF database over the last 5 years in terms of ball placement (not necessarily completion %) are Baker, Mahomes, and Kyler. Accuracy, arm strength, and then the mobility is icing on the cake. But some people are going to die on the hill rallying against him, just like they did with Baker last year, rather than keeping an open mind and using some critical thinking skills.


Absolutely.

I’m still waiting on even just a small piece of data that suggests smaller guys are more likely to get hurt than taller guys. There isn’t but it would be nice to see someone try. Everyone just says he’s an injury risk.

I’d be all over murray like a cheap suit if I’m the giants. But he’s going to the cards at one.

RE: ...  
djm : 4/21/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14396736 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If Murray gets to #6 and the Giants select Jones, I predict the biggest meltdown in BBI history.


Lol. My god it would be something to behold....
RE: Murray will fall  
HomerJones45 : 4/21/2019 9:40 pm : link
In comment 14396578 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
If he isn’t taken #1. He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.
Yep. Shortest qb to be drafted in almost 70 years. Huge risk for a GM.
If Murray falls to #6, I hope the Giants are on the phone with every  
PatersonPlank : 4/21/2019 9:47 pm : link
team looking to trade down. A slightly lower 1st rd pick, plus others. It may be perfect. We still get our players, plus we get more higher picks.
RE: If Zona passes on Murray...  
Johnny5 : 4/21/2019 10:02 pm : link
In comment 14396626 bw in dc said:
Quote:
there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.

Dude.
RE: RE: RE: I'd  
GothamGiants : 4/21/2019 10:27 pm : link
In comment 14396889 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14396870 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14396865 AcidTest said:


Quote:


be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.



They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...



I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.


They weren’t trading picks when they only had 5 ... now they have more than double that and the Vikings have added yet another QB ... trade = much more likely this year given these factors, if they want him. They have as many picks in rounds 4-5 as they did in the entire draft last year.
Negotiating posture?  
Mike in Prescott : 4/21/2019 10:39 pm : link
With Murray regarding a no-baseball for X years no matter what type clause, perhaps? The only way I see him being passed over by Arizona and sliding is if there word is out that Murray won't sign a clause or rider. Thursday will be interesting.
RE: Arizona better just take him  
since1925 : 4/22/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14396716 Motley Two said:
Quote:
or they've got heaps of work to do repairing their relationship with Rosen.

Rosen & his agent are smart enough to know that the Cardinals have hurt his value with how they've handled this so far.

They've got time before they have to worry about resigning Rosen(and he has his own work to do to be a guy you want to resign), but they have work to do.


Rosen's value hasn't been hurt. His contract lasts a few more years and that doesn't change. And if he performs well, no matter where he ends up, his value for his second contract will be high. Performance dictates Rosen's value for contract number two. This period of uncertainty changes nothing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd  
AcidTest : 4/22/2019 9:08 am : link
In comment 14396961 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14396889 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 14396870 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14396865 AcidTest said:


Quote:


be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.



They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...



I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.



They weren’t trading picks when they only had 5 ... now they have more than double that and the Vikings have added yet another QB ... trade = much more likely this year given these factors, if they want him. They have as many picks in rounds 4-5 as they did in the entire draft last year.


They tried to trade up for Carter last year. They likely could have traded their fifth round pick for Sloter, and used their fourth on McIntosh. They could have also traded down on day three to get extra picks, and then traded one of those for Sloter.
If this is true  
5BowlsSoon : 4/22/2019 9:11 am : link
Then I expect Murray to go to Raiders as they trade up to one to get him. I don’t believe Raiders want Carr just like Bengals new guy doesn’t trust Dalton and just like Miami didn’t trust Tanneyhill.
RE: ...  
Mike in NJ : 4/22/2019 9:49 am : link
In comment 14396553 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I wonder what the Giants think of Murray?


On the GoDeep post that got deleted one of the tidbits that he had included was "Daniel Jones is the QB of choice. Even with Murray available."

RE: RE: ...  
adamg : 4/22/2019 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14397293 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14396553 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I wonder what the Giants think of Murray?



On the GoDeep post that got deleted one of the tidbits that he had included was "Daniel Jones is the QB of choice. Even with Murray available."


Is the moratorium on that thread over now? Cause this is legit.
Raiders lover Murray  
ZogZerg : 4/22/2019 12:47 pm : link
according to McShay, they would take him
Raiders lover Murray - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: ...  
pmmanning : 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14397546 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14397293 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 14396553 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I wonder what the Giants think of Murray?



On the GoDeep post that got deleted one of the tidbits that he had included was "Daniel Jones is the QB of choice. Even with Murray available."




Is the moratorium on that thread over now? Cause this is legit.


I agree 100% not saying I like it but agreed
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